145 replies to this topic

[Gilles4Ever]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener

AMuS exclusive: Red Bull already started preparations to develop own #F1 engine. All details in our story (German): ams.to/DM

 

Red Bull has its engine partner Renault issued an ultimatum. After the GP Austria balance is drawn and checked whether the residue is to Mercedes aufholbar medium term. If not, then is plan B ready. Red Bull is seriously on the construction of a separate motor. Supposedly already running a preparation program.

 

 

[MeatPopsicle]

I have disliked how much Red Bull has been publicly slating Renault despite them helping win so many world titles so I hope they do this and I hope the whole project is a failure

[Fastcake]

Okay, so the rough google translate says Red Bull have been talking with companies that will design and build the engine for them. That's obvious, as if Red Bull wanted their own branded engine there's no chance of them doing it themselves.

However, why on earth wouldn't they contact Cosworth? They already have a V6 turbo ready to go, and a long illustrious history in Formula One. Surely they would be the first choice, if Red Bull have real plans to find a new engine supplier.

[OSX]

However, why on earth wouldn't they contact Cosworth? They already have a V6 turbo ready to go, and a long illustrious history in Formula One. Surely they would be the first choice, if Red Bull have real plans to find a new engine supplier.

Well, if we are to believe the story is true the plan is not to find a new engine supplier but to build a new Red Bull branded engine with the help of an engine building skilled partner.

[noikeee]

Didn't see this coming. I mean even McLaren who is a CAR MANUFACTURER heavily considered it then decided against it. Not sure where's the gain on developing engines when you don't have any know-how at all outside of F1 and no way to apply your technology anywhere else.

 

It's a little baffling and hard to see becoming a reality.

[TheManAlive]

This will never happen. It would takes years to develop.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's crazy to assume this other engine is going to automatically be better than what Renault Sport can come up with. Who aren't exactly amateurs or rookies at this game.

[kraduk]

Cosworth would be the the obvious partner, for the already mentioned reasons, and the fact they are only about 20 miles away from each other. Or could Pollock be making a comeback?

[Atreiu]

 

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener

AMuS exclusive: Red Bull already started preparations to develop own #F1 engine. All details in our story (German): ams.to/DM

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck, engine development is a monumental task.

[SealTheDiffuser]

mmmh.... so the unthinkable might be happening?

[Disgrace]

I have disliked how much Red Bull has been publicly slating Renault despite them helping win so many world titles so I hope they do this and I hope the whole project is a failure

 

Agreed, however, the other perspective is that (if this isn't a bluff) it signals long-term involvement in F1. Additional engine suppliers would also be welcome.

 

I wonder if Dietrich has Craig Pollock on the line... 

Edited by Disgrace, 20 June 2014 - 14:57.

[RonnyRonny]

He might have Jackson Pollock on the line as this is bound to turn into a right mess.

[seahawk]

Porsche might be in for it.

[maximilian]

In theory, this could be a viable project - they already have sources for most of the components, they have an absolute engineering genius in-house in Adrian Newey (who would probably have some great ideas on how to integrate the PU with the chassis, amongst others.  Maybe working on an engine is one of his new projects?) and a strong overall engineering department - and apparently Infiniti would be involved as well.  They have the MONEY to do it.  They already have a "customer" team lined up (Toro Rosso).

 

That said, it's still a pretty tall order to assume that this package would be more competitive than Renault, who have decades of hands-on exprience as one of the most successful engine suppliers in F1 and racing in general.  A failure of the in-house engine program COULD bring upon the eventual decline and fall of Red Bull Racing in F1.  But if they succeed... they would finally jump over their own shadow of being "just an energy drinks maker".

[Sash1]

Judd, KTM, Mugen branded Honda... Maybe Toyota would build it if RBR pay.

[xmoonrakerx]

Man...4 years of titles and one bad year and they go mad?........

 

They should get Peugeot and just last 2 laps every race

[Pingu Pi]

He might have Jackson Pollock on the line as this is bound to turn into a right mess.

Great

[kosmos]

Why not?, I can see RB doing it for the pride to win a championship with their own engine, even if it takes some years.

[DaddyCool]

 bad year 

 

But for Mercedes' own team, RBR would still be the dominating force of F1 for the 5th consecutive year.

[pingu666]

would make them more commited to f1

[MikeV1987]

Bring it on, Renault power is weak atm.

[Doughnut King]

would make them more commited to f1

 

How much return for investment does the F1 team actually bring to Red Bull? Anyone know?

[PayasYouRace]

Good luck to them if true. It'd be a tremendous risk though.

[Rob]

A Red Bull-Red Bull at the Red Bull Ring, sponsored by Red Bull.

[BRG]

I'm trying to remember the last private team that tried to build it's own engine.  It was LIFE, wasn't it?  That went well, as I recall. 

[george1981]

In the short term Redbull would be better off paying Renault to develop the existing engine. Renault had complained that non payment by teams was compromising development.

If Redbull chucked some €s Renault's way that would get results.

[xmoonrakerx]

But for Mercedes' own team, RBR would still be the dominating force of F1 for the 5th consecutive year.

 

how do you know they would have got it right for 4 years?

[northell]

What will renault do if this happens? Leave f1? Isnt redbull renaults "works" team?

[PAGATRON]

I'm trying to remember the last private team that tried to build it's own engine.  It was LIFE, wasn't it?  That went well, as I recall. 

TWR Arrows used their own engines in 98 and 99 built by Brian Hart.

Didn't do to badly with their limited resources, they got a good couples of top 10 finishes.

[OO7]

I'm trying to remember the last private team that tried to build it's own engine.  It was LIFE, wasn't it?  That went well, as I recall. 

Indeed, it spelt the death of LIFE.

[eronrules]

i think something is missing in translation. perhaps it was a strategic threat that is perceived by AMuS as a legitimate foray into engine building. 

 

i'll hold my judgement for more concrete info. and people, don't take AMuS as Gospels (which themselves are imaginary)

[andrewf1]

[Kenstate]

It's funny. This was an april fools headline a little while ago......and now......

[Afterburner]

I think it could happen, especially with the rumblings about Newey's new contract and pursuing other avenues for RB. If--and this is a massive if--a supercar truly is in the pipeline, then this probably isn't as far-fetched as most may think.

Do not forget that Red Bull is more or less an empire. Money is clearly not an issue, and goes a long way towards getting results when used appropiately (see their F1 team for an example). Why is it so hard to believe that they could do with an engine what they did with their cars?

[KWSN - DSM]

If Red Bull build their own engine, they will not build an engine. I will be a badge job on an engine build by a manufacturer, either one already in F1, one entering F1 soon, one who have previously been in F1, or one who have wanted to stick their toes in the water, but will try do so in the relative anonymity of a badged job (VW?).

 

I would not be surprised if it was a re-badged Renault becoming an Infiniti, I have a feeling Red Bull think they can do a better job with some of the issues than what Renault have done, and we have already seen how they chose to run configurations and settings of their own this season.

 

Most likely not something which will happen until at least 2016.

 

  

[Kenstate]

I think it could happen, especially with the rumblings about Newey's new contract and pursuing other avenues for RB. If--and this is a massive if--a supercar truly is in the pipeline, then this probably isn't as far-fetched as most may think.

Do not forget that Red Bull is more or less an empire. Money is clearly not an issue, and goes a long way towards getting results when used appropiately (see their F1 team for an example). Why is it so hard to believe that they could do with an engine what they did with their cars?

 

Red Bull is active in a bunch of motorsports, but at the end of the day they're still just a drinks company. No different than monster energy except with more cash to burn through.

[Ross Stonefeld]

No I think they're more pro-racing. They put a lot of money in areas they don't need to. There's no value in Toro Rosso, they could just put their drivers at other teams. Or just hire the people they wanted. Buying Hamilton out of Mercedes is cheaper than running Toro Rosso for a year. 

[BiH]

Why not just pay BMW/Toyota/Porsche/VW

 

 

would anyone turn down Red Bull if they knocked on any of the doors above?

 

 

........

if that article true RBR really must be pissed that Renault is in the crapper and they feel they could be up there with Mercedes if they had better engine

Edited by BiH, 20 June 2014 - 20:14.

[4MEN]

Those Red Bull cans must be really expensive because I don't understand how they get so much money.

[KWSN - DSM]

Those Red Bull cans must be really expensive because I don't understand how they get so much money.

 

3.5 billion cans in 2009, number can only have gone up. I do not drink the foul liquid, would expect that they at a minimum make Usd 0.05 per can in profit.

 

[Ross Stonefeld]

If you guessed 0.50 you'd still be very low. 

 

Coke has a healthy profit margin on soda selling at .50-.70 a can, and Red Bull sells for what, 2 bucks a can? Even with all their marketing costs(and Coke are spending more...) there's a lot of profit. 

[KWSN - DSM]

If you guessed 0.50 you'd still be very low. 

 

Coke has a healthy profit margin on soda selling at .50-.70 a can, and Red Bull sells for what, 2 bucks a can? Even with all their marketing costs(and Coke are spending more...) there's a lot of profit. 

 

   I was about to write Usd 0.25 and thought that would be insane   I actually have no idea what a can goes for, since I really do not ever buy, so just binged and seems to be Usd 2.5 in Jersey City area. Yes insane profits, and insane amounts of money.

 

[kapow]

If you guessed 0.50 you'd still be very low.

Coke has a healthy profit margin on soda selling at .50-.70 a can, and Red Bull sells for what, 2 bucks a can? Even with all their marketing costs(and Coke are spending more...) there's a lot of profit.

Red Bull don't sell the cans for $2 though... They sell them to distributors, who sell them to warehouses, who sell them to shops...

[KWSN - DSM]

So if we ignore the profit on a Red Bull can for a few. What is the real cost of building an engine ready to compete in F1?  Usd 100 million? More? Less?

 

[kapow]

So if we ignore the profit on a Red Bull can for a few. What is the real cost of building an engine ready to compete in F1? Usd 100 million? More? Less?

From scratch? Tooling, staff... No benefits from increased car sales...

There's a reason that no privateer teams ever make their own engines.

[KWSN - DSM]

From scratch? Tooling, staff... No benefits from increased car sales...

There's a reason that no privateer teams ever make their own engines.

 

No a Judd, Ilmor, Hart operation building one.

 

[Ross Stonefeld]

Red Bull don't sell the cans for $2 though... They sell them to distributors, who sell them to warehouses, who sell them to shops...

 

Same deal with Coke though. 

 

Red Bull is probably selling them wholesale for a dollar or something. Energy drinks are stupidly high margin, the problem is getting market share. 

[kapow]

No a Judd, Ilmor, Hart operation building one.

When did it ever work in F1 though?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Though, when has it ever been done to this level? Usually the privateer engines have been the poor(Hart) or the people caught out(Williams having to run a Judd, Red Bull running a Cosworth in their early years).

 

I don't think it's better than just getting an engine from someone already doing it, but I don't think it is as bad as doing a third-party engine like before.

[Myrvold]

Into the Turbo-era if I'm not wrong. With Cosworth. The first Merc's was Ilmor engines.