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Austrian F1 GP 2014: Sunday Race Thread


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#601 OvDrone

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:10

the track is quite nice, but not really great for overtaking unfortunately, the old one with some safety modifications would probably put a much nicer show, but I'm happy F1 is back to this place.

 

Better than Azerbaijan, surely.



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#602 redreni

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:13

Can anyone actually provide a logical and thought out reason why Hamiltons are on average slower by around 1 second than Rosberg's without using the shut the f..k up excuse or calling people names

 

What's the source of that information? If you can point me to some average pitstop time data, I might take the notion seriously that Hamilton's stops are slower. If that's the case (and I've seen nothing to say that it is true if you average it over a meaningful sample of stops) then it's probably either a difference in perfomance between pitcrews (although they often us the same pitcrew for both drivers, especially if they have to turn both cars around in quick succession) or it's something Hamilton is doing differently to Rosberg.


Edited by redreni, 22 June 2014 - 14:14.


#603 OO7

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:28

If only Lewis had the overtake boost for a couple laps

Nothing would have come of it, he needed to be 7 tenths or thereabouts quicker to pass.



#604 GAZF1nut

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:28

Question... whats a "Hamilton fan"? Is that some special religious group? I see that phrase used so often by keyboard warriors to put down someone who supports the guy. Why the generalization?

It is becoming really annoying for Hamilton fans. When fans see that their driver had a poor race (in this case Nico increasing his lead in the WDC), of course they won't be happy about it, but can some of you guys please stop relating us to some kind of "hive-mind" like group? 



#605 4MEN

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:30

How can I block certain users?

Used to be easier. :down:



#606 OO7

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:32

Brundle is a **** stirrer

:confused:



#607 OO7

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:35

Why is no one either in this thread or on the coverage mentioning Lewis unfairly getting pit stop preference over Rosberg?

Just keep focusing on the stops.

Nico got pit stop advantage over Lewis in China.



#608 OO7

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:36

I think this was more to get Lewis ahead of Bottas while providing there was a gap to Rosberg to keep his place ahead of Lewis. Afterall, Mercedes still want their 1-2s.

 

Teams will do this if it benefits the team by getting their second driver ahead of their competitor without compromising their lead driver. It's seemed pretty normal to me.

Exactly.



#609 jestaudio

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:41

Not hitting his mark perfectly.

 

It was the 1st thing that came to his mind as well.

Costs a few tenths unless its way over, not nearly a second, 



#610 BiH

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:42

They need to change the layout of track.

 

Pretty poor race.

 

It felt like it was monaco follow the leader race.

 

 

Williams pit strategy is pathetic, they needed to cover Mercedes and they couldn't do for both cars.



#611 Dolph

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:44

They need to change the layout of track.

 

Pretty poor race.

 

It felt like it was monaco follow the leader race.

 

 

Williams pit strategy is pathetic, they needed to cover Mercedes and they couldn't do for both cars.

 

Its either cover one or cover the other. They can't cover both if the pitstops are split by several laps.



#612 kosmos

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:45

Used to be easier. :down:

 

  1. My control panel
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  4. → Ignore Preferences

Edited by kosmos, 22 June 2014 - 14:46.


#613 Shambolic

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:46

It felt like it was monaco follow the leader race.


Apart from all the overtaking that happened. In various parts of the circuit. Throughout the race.

An F1 race is not a bloody time trial, that happens on a Saturday and is called qualifying. The race involves drivers having to actually make an effort, and use their skill, to pass each other (or at least should, flappy wings aside). No driver is entitled to breeze past another because he might be a smidgin faster, or have a rabid fan base.

#614 pokerkid

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:47

They need to change the layout of track.

 

Pretty poor race.

 

It felt like it was monaco follow the leader race.

 

 

huh? its a classic track with long straights. The cars are to blame not the track. They should have made the drs zones bigger.



#615 anti

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:48

Race:  :: Pit :: Best lap :: Lap Chart :: History graph
 



#616 InvertedLift

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:48

Dude, I was just answering a question. I've seen Red Bull and other teams do the exact same strategic move when it benefits the team.

 

No idea what you're on about, I'm not even whinging. I don't care for the pitstops, sometimes you get good ones, sometimes you get **** ones. That's racing, so chill.

That wasn't directed at you, more the cult-ish Hamilton fans screaming bloody murder about him losing some time in the stops even though he was given pit stop preference despite being behind on track. Just see the 'Hamilton being sabotaged?' thread or even a few pages back on this one for examples.

 

Clearly it was a sensible decision to bring him in first because Rosberg was safe out the front and he had a chance to undercut Bottas (which he did). Just interesting that this forum and the Sky coverage are focusing entirely on the stop times and completely ignoring the preferential strategy he received.



#617 BiH

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 14:59

Apart from all the overtaking that happened. In various parts of the circuit. Throughout the race.

An F1 race is not a bloody time trial, that happens on a Saturday and is called qualifying. The race involves drivers having to actually make an effort, and use their skill, to pass each other (or at least should, flappy wings aside). No driver is entitled to breeze past another because he might be a smidgin faster, or have a rabid fan base.

 

What race were you watching.

 

Not one corner is set up for passing. You can't even close anyone up for turn 1 as final corner exit is stupid.

 

All the passing happened on turn 2 everything else was Truli train.

 

Perez managed to hold Nico/Bottas/Hamilton/Massa lap after lap.


Edited by BiH, 22 June 2014 - 15:00.


#618 HeadFirst

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:09

Could people quit this lumping everyone together as if we exist in a hive mind. It took Hamilton four wins on the bounce to make up ground on 25 deficit, he is now 29 points behind, Rosberg is not going to roll over. Hamilton has put himself in a very difficult position.  His chances of winning the WDC is diminishing 

 

Absolutely correct.



#619 MastaKink

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:15

Costs a few tenths unless its way over, not nearly a second, 

 

He was long on the 1st stop and of course that could add a second by the time all 4 corners have to shuffle along.

 

In the 2nd he had a damaged cake tin so they had to take a bit more care as to not damage it further. The fact nobody even noticed that shows what a good job the guy actually did.



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#620 HeadFirst

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:25

Enjoyed the race. Good consistent drives by Rosberg and Bottas, great start by Hamilton. All three deserved their podiums, but jeez .... no one deserves those ugly trophies.



#621 AlmightyGod

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:33

Could people quit this lumping everyone together as if we exist in a hive mind. It took Hamilton four wins on the bounce to make up ground on 25 deficit, he is now 29 points behind, Rosberg is not going to roll over. Hamilton has put himself in a very difficult position.  His chances of winning the WDC is diminishing 

What!. So the extra 7 points is the catalyst?. You are saying he wasn't already in a difficult position @ +22 points.



#622 sennafan24

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 15:41

Question... whats a "Hamilton fan"? Is that some special religious group? I see that phrase used so often by keyboard warriors to put down someone who supports the guy. Why the generalization?

Agreed. It is more than annoying.



#623 scheivlak

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 20:31

Question... whats a "Hamilton fan"? Is that some special religious group? I see that phrase used so often by keyboard warriors to put down someone who supports the guy. Why the generalization?

Indeed, we have to differentiate between the secular Hamilton fans and the religious Hamilton fans  :D


Edited by scheivlak, 22 June 2014 - 20:32.


#624 sosidge

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 20:49

7 of the top 10 with Mercedes power. All credit to Mercedes for their tech, but it makes for dull racing on a power track. Hamilton's amazing first lap was testament to the crushing superiority of his car, he didn't even have to fight for the positions, just drove past as if he was an LMP1 car passing a GTE car.

 

Williams' made it interesting for a while but when the works Mercs can pull out a second a lap at every pit window, the result is a foregone conclusion.

 

Good showings by Perez, Bottas, Kvyat and Alonso.



#625 loki

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 21:45

Costs a few tenths unless its way over, not nearly a second, 

Once all was factored in it was about 2 secs for both stops.  Fasntasic drive though from 10th to 2nd and competing for the win.



#626 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 22:10

Why does webber say "merseedees"?


Coz he is Australian, and that's the way they were marketed here for many, many years...then the Latte set started saying mer-say-dees...OK?

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 22 June 2014 - 22:35.


#627 scheivlak

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 22:13

Once all was factored in it was about 2 secs for both stops.  Fasntasic drive though from 10th to 2nd and competing for the win.

Nico Hulkenberg finishing 2nd? Nah.



#628 jody391

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 22:15

7 of the top 10 with Mercedes power. All credit to Mercedes for their tech, but it makes for dull racing on a power track. Hamilton's amazing first lap was testament to the crushing superiority of his car, he didn't even have to fight for the positions, just drove past as if he was an LMP1 car passing a GTE car.

Williams' made it interesting for a while but when the works Mercs can pull out a second a lap at every pit window, the result is a foregone conclusion.

Good showings by Perez, Bottas, Kvyat and Alonso.



"Hamilton's amazing first lap was testament to the crushing superiority of his car"

Ha ha really... How come Rosberg needed the pit stops to jump the Williams then if "it's the cars superiority"!?!?

Lewis is the reason he jumped to 4th so quick! Really tut tut! ;)

#629 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 22:25

Dear Mr 275 GTB-4,
 
I built this track.
 
Sincerely,
 
Hermann Tilke


Dear Hermann,

Thanks for getting back to me. You certainly can be proud of the redesigned track. A word to the wise though, don't mention any of the more recent scalextrix inspired, boring as bat **** tracks you have been involved with in your resume.

Best Regards, Mick

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 22 June 2014 - 22:36.


#630 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 22:35

Can anyone actually provide a logical and thought out reason why Hamiltons are on average slower by around 1 second than Rosberg's without using the shut the f..k up excuse or calling people names


Hamilton's rears went off in the latter stages of the race...the car looked like a pig, but he did a top job to maintain his position.

#631 HoldenRT

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 23:28

Missed the first 60% of the race live.. first I've missed in a very very long time.  The last part was pretty dull, and the race as a whole seemed dull.  But on rewatching the first half there were some good moments.

 

Congrats to Williams for pushing Merc so hard and getting their best team result in a long time.

 

PS.. watch F1 live and with live timing otherwise it's dull and it sucks.  It's like walking into a cinema and watching the last half of the movie and you don't even know who the characters are.  No wonder it's so hard for F1 to get viewers, you have to be a diehard to be able to properly appreciate it.  And even if you are a diehard, you need to watch it live with live timing!

 

A nice surprise to see Webber on the podium at the end there, so weird that it was only 6 months ago that he was on the podium with them.



#632 Wes350

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 00:00

...

Congrats to Williams for pushing Merc so hard and getting their best team result in a long time.

 

...

 

I think Williams had a legit shot at splitting Mercedes on the podium. 

 

Both cars were on a good pace - Mercedes didn't win by some big 20-30+ second blowout.

 

They should have pitted right after Rosberg or right when he did - have both drivers really push, and pit one lap after the other.

 
It seems that as soon as Williams lost the top spots they just concentrated on preserving 3-4, and not trying to push the Mercs.
 

The Mercs were managing their brakes all race - I think that with the Williams running with them, and keeping up the pressure, it would have forced them to run harder than they wanted to.

 

They couldn't have managed their brakes as well and who knows what could have happened. (Ham almost flamed out - but with the Williams behind him and not trying to push, he was able to manage his brakes.)

 

I think the Mercs have a fundamental "flaw" or operation constraint with their brakes, I don't think they can change the design and they will have to deal with it all season. I think teams can challenge for wins if they can put pressure on the Mercs and make them overheat their brakes on select tracks...



#633 NoSanityClause

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 00:08

I so hoped that Mark would say to Rosberg "Not bad for a number two driver!"



#634 BillBald

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 00:14

Why does webber say "merseedees"?

 

Reminds me of a joke:

 

OK, sir, I've finished painting your porch. But you know, it's not a porch, it's a merseedees.



#635 sosidge

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:47

"Hamilton's amazing first lap was testament to the crushing superiority of his car"

Ha ha really... How come Rosberg needed the pit stops to jump the Williams then if "it's the cars superiority"!?!?

Lewis is the reason he jumped to 4th so quick! Really tut tut!  ;)

 

All the cars he passed from the start had Renault or Ferrari power with the exception of Magnussen who ran wide at the first corner fighting Ricciardo and lost momentum. So yes, it was a very easy start for Hamilton until he got stuck behind the Williams'.

 

Lewis also needed the pit stops to get past the Williams,even though he passed Massa on track it was straight after he had left the pits and Massa was either napping or not confident in the tyres yet. So you can hardly criticise Rosberg for only being able to do the same.



#636 garagetinkerer

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 05:59

I find it quite funny that people always bang on about how impressive in and out laps are... part of it is the actual physical stop in the box bit. Sometimes when you go charging in, mistakes may happen... sometimes there are other cars around you in the pits. Then again, no two stops are almost exactly the same... it is close, but no cookie, and it goes to both drivers every now and then. If you're leading and have time to spare, best to be sure than merely quick.



#637 garagetinkerer

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 06:00

All the cars he passed from the start had Renault or Ferrari power with the exception of Magnussen who ran wide at the first corner fighting Ricciardo and lost momentum. So yes, it was a very easy start for Hamilton until he got stuck behind the Williams'.

 

Lewis also needed the pit stops to get past the Williams,even though he passed Massa on track it was straight after he had left the pits and Massa was either napping or not confident in the tyres yet. So you can hardly criticise Rosberg for only being able to do the same.

But, but, it is Rosberg...



#638 Kristian

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 13:32

I looks like Mercedes have been having fun at Red Bull's expense....

 

bqz_lxmcyaa8ljm_72039.jpg

 

Also they did this to the giant Red Bull statue: http://twitter.com/M...1195136/photo/1


Edited by Kristian, 23 June 2014 - 13:36.


#639 Sash1

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 14:00

The best or nothing?
What kind of sentence is that?



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#640 Sash1

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 14:06

What's up with all the brake failures / problems? Can't they fit brakes that last 90 minutes? Or does someone have trouble calculating ERS braking energy available and what is actually needed to stop a car weighing x kg, going down x% slope, from x to y speed in an a to b outside temperature window..... Ooh and by the way, the cars are supplied to racers, not a group who enjoy a corporate day out at the karting track. It is pathetic that races have to hold back not only because of fuel flow restrictions and such, but also because the brakes are close to breaking down halfway trough the race.



#641 SophieB

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 20:15

The best or nothing?
What kind of sentence is that?

 
It's a translation of Gottlieb Daimler's motto: "Das Beste oder nichts"

#642 30L

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 04:16

"Also they did this to the giant Red Bull statue"

"Can't they fit brakes that last 90 minutes?"

 

LOL  :cool: .

 

IMHO not a bad race at all, not the best either, nice job for Williams (specially on strategy :drunk: ) 



#643 PayasYouRace

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:55

What's up with all the brake failures / problems? Can't they fit brakes that last 90 minutes? Or does someone have trouble calculating ERS braking energy available and what is actually needed to stop a car weighing x kg, going down x% slope, from x to y speed in an a to b outside temperature window..... Ooh and by the way, the cars are supplied to racers, not a group who enjoy a corporate day out at the karting track. It is pathetic that races have to hold back not only because of fuel flow restrictions and such, but also because the brakes are close to breaking down halfway trough the race.

 

You think this is the first time that a team has misjudged their braking needs?



#644 Sash1

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 08:05

Not that they run into trouble at halfway distance. I expect that from Simtec style teams. Not Mercedes or any of the RBR teams. 



#645 Nemo1965

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 08:06

What's up with all the brake failures / problems? Can't they fit brakes that last 90 minutes? Or does someone have trouble calculating ERS braking energy available and what is actually needed to stop a car weighing x kg, going down x% slope, from x to y speed in an a to b outside temperature window..... Ooh and by the way, the cars are supplied to racers, not a group who enjoy a corporate day out at the karting track. It is pathetic that races have to hold back not only because of fuel flow restrictions and such, but also because the brakes are close to breaking down halfway trough the race.

 

I thought someone else would answer this, because it is quite well known: all the teams have fitted much smaller brakes to the rear of the car because the powerunit - being electrical and all, with all the energy harvesting - slows down the rear-axle considerably all by itself (presumably when the clutch is not pressed). I don't know if you have ever driven an electrical car or an electrical bike (I have), but if the engine is still switched 'on' and engaged and you cut the throttle, the braking is quite something.

 

Why the small brakes? One: weight. Two: aerodynamic advantages.

 

Ofcourse if the MGPUEGOEIHGEOHGEHGIHEIHGIEHGIH-unit dies (as with Hamilton and Rosberg in Canada), you gotta bit of a problem. First: you lose the 'axle-braking'. Second: you lose the harvesting of energy. Third: you have to make those little brakes in the rear work very hard. Fourth: my estimation is that all the teams, and especially Mercedes, have seriously underestimated the heat-management problems of electrical-systems. Which, even if all the stuff is working right, causes problems for the rear-brakes. Because heat-management mostly has to do with size. The bigger an object is, the easier heat can dissipate. And so forth.


Edited by Nemo1965, 24 June 2014 - 08:09.