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Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg 2014 Part V


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#1 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 15:47

Almost reaching 4k replies, thats fast. Thought I should start a new thread. Someone should start one for the Seb v Ric too !

 

 

 

Previous threads:

 

http://forums.autosp...o-rosberg-2014/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-ii/

http://forums.autosp...-2014-part-iii/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-iv/


Edited by SophieB, 25 June 2014 - 16:13.
earlier thread links


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#2 SophieB

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 16:08

Really, there's no need, we usually have got this but thanks for the kind thought :) I will edit in the links to the old threads in your OP, though.



#3 GoldenColt

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 16:19

Will we reach 10?

 

I say yes. :up:



#4 Kvothe

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 16:21

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully



#5 Kingshark

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 16:39

Will we reach 10?

 

I say yes. :up:

 

Given that we are soon entering the critical stages of the championship, this thread is only going to become more active with time. The fact that the WDC is on the line helps, clearly. :up:


Edited by Kingshark, 25 June 2014 - 16:39.


#6 hollowstar

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 18:02

Will we reach 10?

 

I say yes. :up:

 

We should start predictions.  If there's no part 12 by Abu Dhabi, I will eat my own lunch. 



#7 SR388

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 18:48

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

 

 

Let's do this!!!!!



#8 Nemo1965

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 19:49

You know what I would really like in this thread? Side-by-side comparisons of Lewis and Nico-laps. I've looked on youtube, The only side-by-side comparison I could find was this:

 

 

Very interesting also, but still...  :(



#9 GoldenColt

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 20:42

Interesting indeed... although it's last years steering wheel, you can see that Hamilton's wheel looks more ... efficient. He even mentioned he didn't need some of the buttons on Michael's wheel.

Another thing I like are the colors he has opted for, the fact that they are quite eye-catching makes it easier to remember them.

 

Quite a cerebral approach to these little things that can sometimes make a difference if you ask me.  ;)

 

Didn't they also take over McLaren's steering wheel design this year? Which was a design Lewis once mentioned he was (partly) responsible for?


Edited by GoldenColt, 25 June 2014 - 20:46.


#10 Peter Perfect

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 21:30

Interesting indeed... although it's last years steering wheel, you can see that Hamilton's wheel looks more ... efficient. He even mentioned he didn't need some of the buttons on Michael's wheel.

Another thing I like are the colors he has opted for, the fact that they are quite eye-catching makes it easier to remember them.

 

Quite a cerebral approach to these little things that can sometimes make a difference if you ask me.  ;)

 

Didn't they also take over McLaren's steering wheel design this year? Which was a design Lewis once mentioned he was (partly) responsible for?

 

Why would that be? Would it really be a case of feeling that certain settings don't make enough of a difference? Or could it be that the same settings can be reached through some kind of menu system instead? (so not immediately available but can be altered).

 

I'd assume that all McLaren drivers would have had input into the basic steering wheel configuration, with individual drivers perhaps having slight customisations of it.



#11 Nemo1965

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:34

Why would that be? Would it really be a case of feeling that certain settings don't make enough of a difference? Or could it be that the same settings can be reached through some kind of menu system instead? (so not immediately available but can be altered).

 

I'd assume that all McLaren drivers would have had input into the basic steering wheel configuration, with individual drivers perhaps having slight customisations of it.

 

It is my impression, having watched both drivers onboard quite a lot, that Nico is more of a 'fiddler' in the car than Lewis: he changes settings more during driving. His display shows standard, and in quite big numbers, his braking balance and/or diff. settings. (I am not quite sure, but the numbers 59,1 to 60,1 seem to indicate that). 

 

Therefore I am not suprised that Lewis' steer has less dials than that of Rosberg. Personal preferences, as you write.



#12 bourbon

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:46

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

 

But that would mean Part VI - Return of the Rosberg :p

 

In all seriousness, these two are pretty well met, so you never know what might happen from week to week.  It is interesting that they seem to get on a roll of success rather than going back and forth - at least so far.



#13 1Devil1

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 08:51

It is my impression, having watched both drivers onboard quite a lot, that Nico is more of a 'fiddler' in the car than Lewis: he changes settings more during driving. His display shows standard, and in quite big numbers, his braking balance and/or diff. settings. (I am not quite sure, but the numbers 59,1 to 60,1 seem to indicate that). 

 

Therefore I am not suprised that Lewis' steer has less dials than that of Rosberg. Personal preferences, as you write.

 

I thought the Mercedes driver had to change a lot of settings in the years between 2010 and 2012. Rosberg and Michael, had to fiddle a lot of I remember that correct in the race. It could be that this cars needed it to reduce tire wear, they had a lot of problems with that, and Nico is just used to it more and Lewis is used to the McLaren approach.



#14 Nemo1965

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:04

I thought the Mercedes driver had to change a lot of settings in the years between 2010 and 2012. Rosberg and Michael, had to fiddle a lot of I remember that correct in the race. It could be that this cars needed it to reduce tire wear, they had a lot of problems with that, and Nico is just used to it more and Lewis is used to the McLaren approach.

 

When Schumacher was in his heydays at Ferrari, I was always amazed how much he changed settings during driving. Perhaps Michael Schumacher was the pioneer of 'fiddling in the car'! And Rosberg just took a leave out of that book. And talking of Lewis: isn't there a famous story that in GP2 at Spa, he just asked: 'Put the rearwing on level 1.' 'But that will destroy the setup of the car?' 'Naah, I'll sort it out while driving.'

 

If that story is true, Lewis uses a more 'holistic' approach to driving (a whole lap), Rosberg a more 'mosaic' approach (per corner).

 

BTW: And this despite what I wrote earlier, in ye old thread: that is perhaps what is troubling Lewis at the moment, he is not driving laps but sectors.

 

PS: Just imagine that in the 80's, Nelson Piquet had to beg and moan with Bernie E. for the few bucks to install a handle for the torsion bar in the Brabham.


Edited by Nemo1965, 26 June 2014 - 09:05.


#15 as65p

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:38

I thought the Mercedes driver had to change a lot of settings in the years between 2010 and 2012. Rosberg and Michael, had to fiddle a lot of I remember that correct in the race. It could be that this cars needed it to reduce tire wear, they had a lot of problems with that, and Nico is just used to it more and Lewis is used to the McLaren approach.

 

I think it's far more personal preference than car/team dependant. *

 

And anyway, Hamilton just loves to design his own stuff, be it caps or steering wheels. And tell people about it, of course.  ;)

 

* Schumacher basically did it his whole career, even in near perfect cars.


Edited by as65p, 26 June 2014 - 09:39.


#16 speng

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:58

Will we reach 10?
 
I say yes. :up:

For sure, Hamilton's name is in the title

#17 Obi Offiah

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:24

Interesting indeed... although it's last years steering wheel, you can see that Hamilton's wheel looks more ... efficient. He even mentioned he didn't need some of the buttons on Michael's wheel.

Another thing I like are the colors he has opted for, the fact that they are quite eye-catching makes it easier to remember them.

 

Quite a cerebral approach to these little things that can sometimes make a difference if you ask me.  ;)

 

Didn't they also take over McLaren's steering wheel design this year? Which was a design Lewis once mentioned he was (partly) responsible for?

Yes, I believe Lewis brought the concept he worked on at McLaren to Mercedes.  The 2014 steering wheel features a reduction in the number of controls on it, I presume making more use of the options menu to select functions that are seldom used/less critical.



#18 RubalSher

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:35

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

 

Hell yeah :up:



#19 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 11:53

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

 

and then Part VI: Return of the Jedi.... to McLaren :lol:


Edited by SanDiegoGo, 26 June 2014 - 11:53.


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#20 race addicted

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:05

Even if the gap is relatively big (though as several others do, I too remind myself that it's just 12 points in old money), and certainly annoying as it's been built up due to tech. DNF's, I'm in very good spirits. There's bound to be some wet races later in the year (always a good chance at Spa, and Russia in october....) and those will be big opportunities.



#21 TomNokoe

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 13:51

And Silverstone next week :lol:

#22 RonnyRonny

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 13:55

Another special cap for Hamilton in Silverstone... And to think they're favouring Rosberg.

#23 GoldenColt

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 13:58

And to get you in the right mood... here's Hammys pole lap from 2013:

 

 

Nico Rosberg +0,452



#24 eronrules

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 15:19

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

The Hunger Games : catching luck  :o



#25 malibu

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 15:23

Hamilton is an outstanding driver but rosberg should not be underestimated as he destroyed all his teammates (except his rookie year). He is in his second season with hamilton and drivers are on equal results. Hamilton is pushed to his limits, far more than against Alonso or Button. It could explains his mistakes (rosberg made mistakes too under pressure and lost Q3s he wasn't supposed to). Remember when they were teammates, Alonso managed to beat Hami on quali just for or five times...

The canada qualy was a great moment from rosberg. He did hide his true pace until the last moment and put two great laps in the money time. That did disturb Hamilton who had to put the perfect lap without being sure it would be enough. 

What's more interesting this year, is that the 2014 cars (and tires) seems to fit more Hamilton. Really rosberg is impressive 

 

 

 

If someone can give the head to head  battle since they are teammates. It seems rosberg has better quali results than hami in dry. 


Edited by malibu, 26 June 2014 - 15:25.


#26 Farhannn15

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 15:36

If someone can give the head to head  battle since they are teammates. 

Excellent unbiased post by Britophile. http://forums.autosp...67#entry6770776



#27 P123

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 15:47

I find Rosberg's approach with regards the data sharing more realistic than Wolff's.  As an example, they aren't going to blab to each other about how they took a corner, but it's all there in the data for their engineers to decipher.



#28 andrewf1

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 16:18

I find Rosberg's approach with regards the data sharing more realistic than Wolff's.  As an example, they aren't going to blab to each other about how they took a corner, but it's all there in the data for their engineers to decipher.

 

I don't think that was ever the case. I'm pretty sure they never had conversations about how to take corners, it has always been about studying the other's telemetry and figuring it out yourself or with the help of your engineers (see Rosberg's "Hamilton Bible" he acquired after the Malaysian GP). 

 

 

What Wolff was complaining about was deliberate sandbagging which masks the expected pace of the car and hinders set-up development. 



#29 zottzell

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 17:03

Hamilton is an outstanding driver but rosberg should not be underestimated as he destroyed all his teammates (except his rookie year). He is in his second season with hamilton and drivers are on equal results. Hamilton is pushed to his limits, far more than against Alonso or Button. It could explains his mistakes (rosberg made mistakes too under pressure and lost Q3s he wasn't supposed to). Remember when they were teammates, Alonso managed to beat Hami on quali just for or five times...

The canada qualy was a great moment from rosberg. He did hide his true pace until the last moment and put two great laps in the money time. That did disturb Hamilton who had to put the perfect lap without being sure it would be enough. 

What's more interesting this year, is that the 2014 cars (and tires) seems to fit more Hamilton. Really rosberg is impressive 

 

 

 

If someone can give the head to head  battle since they are teammates. It seems rosberg has better quali results than hami in dry. 

I would say that using the wording destroyed might be a bit strong, the only years that sort of qualifies for that epithet as I see it are.

2009 Rosberg 34.5 - Nakajima 0

2010 Rosberg 142 - Schumacher 72 

2012 Rosberg 93 - Schumacher 49



#30 bub

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 18:17

I would say that using the wording destroyed might be a bit strong, the only years that sort of qualifies for that epithet as I see it are.

2009 Rosberg 34.5 - Nakajima 0

2010 Rosberg 142 - Schumacher 72 

2012 Rosberg 93 - Schumacher 49

 

I don't think 2012 belongs there. He didn't destroy his teammate, bad luck did IIRC.


Edited by bub, 26 June 2014 - 18:19.


#31 hollowstar

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 18:22

I don't think 2012 belongs there. He didn't destroy his teammate, bad luck did IIRC.

 

Yes, Schumacher was probably unluckiest driver on the grid that year. On par or even more so than Hamilton. 



#32 andrewf1

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 18:45

 

Lap 39 Tony Ross - Nico Rosberg: HPP eleven to one, push hard now.
 
Lap 39 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: OK Lewis it’s hammer time.

 

The difference in relaying the same message to Brainiac and LewLew  :lol:

 

 

Nico Rosberg wanted a break from the endless stream of information while he worked his way to the front while his team mate stalked him from behind.

 
Far more messages were heard from Lewis Hamilton’s side of the garage as he tried to make up for a poor qualifying position while grappling with overheating brakes. A lengthy discussion involving him and his engineers before the beginning of the race revealed Mercedes were using less aggressive engine braking settings in Austria.
 
This had consequences for both drivers in the race as their brakes, which were taking more of the strain of slowing the cars, became too hot. Hamilton was getting warning about this as early as lap ten. And although Rosberg had the same problem, Hamilton found it impaired his ability to gain on his team mate when the two were running at the front of the field in the closing laps.

 

I noticed this during the race, that in the closing stages Lewis had quickly reduced the deficit to Rosberg to about 1 second in the space of a few laps, but later on this distance increased to 1.5 - 2 seconds and we again heard some radio calls about keeping the brakes in temperature. I'm convinced Lewis had more pace in this race, as well as in qualifying.

 

Looking at the bigger picture, it's a shame really. This might be a question for the car thread, but what has happened to Merc that they are suddenly (by suddenly I mean since Canada) having these brake temperature problems. Not only that, but they've also had to increase the openings at the rear of the car. I'm pretty sure that Malaysia, Bahrain and Spain had higher air and track temperatures than Canada and Austria, yet they seemed to run just fine there.

 

Also, how nice is it that in the races where Merc has rear brake temperature problems, Lewis is the one doing the chasing, thus being quite severely compromised in his attempts to follow the leading car in order to get close enough to overtake.

 

Note that both cars suffered overheating problems, in Canada as well as in Austria - just in case some of Hamilton's detractors lurking around here are eager to point out that the overheating was Lewis' own doing.

 

Nonetheless, in Spain and Bahrain, Nico, of course, had no overheating troubles while closely following the leading car and was able to apply pressure until the very end. Not that it mattered in the end.


Edited by andrewf1, 26 June 2014 - 18:46.


#33 Farhannn15

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 23:51

It's Nico's birthday today  :clap: and that means both Nico and Lewis are 29 as of today. I still remember their early days as promising up and coming rookies as 21 and 22 year olds but they're ageing so fast now  :well:. Time's going to go by so fast and it won't be long before they both retire. Perhaps 10 years max  :cry:.


Edited by Farhannn15, 26 June 2014 - 23:51.


#34 malibu

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 00:20

 

I would say that using the wording destroyed might be a bit strong, the only years that sort of qualifies for that epithet as I see it are.

2009 Rosberg 34.5 - Nakajima 0

2010 Rosberg 142 - Schumacher 72 

2012 Rosberg 93 - Schumacher 49

 

 

The points scored aren't the best indicator to compare teammates In F1 cars that cannot score points regularly. 

By memory, those years, Rosberg was clearly the fastest driver, except his rookie year.

 

In the quali head to head battle (approximately) : 

(in his rookie year) 2006 : NR vs Webber 6/12 (1/6 in the first 7 races and  5/6 in the last 11 races)

2007 : NR vs wurz : 13/3  (wurz was replaced by nakajima in the last grand prix)

2008 : NR vs Nakajima : 14/4

2009 :NR vs NAkajima : 14/4

2010 : NR vs schumi :16/3

2011 : NR vs schumi : 17/2

2012 : NR vs Schumi : 10/10  ( after having announced his retirement, there was a diminished pressure on teammate battle and from memory the team started testing different configurations on cars for the next season ) 

 

 

Furthermore, i remember rosberg being often close to button, when the mclaren was superior, wich was an indicator it wasn't going to be funny for lewis against him.

In 2009 Nico scored 34,5 points to 0 for Nakajima. But he managed to beat the bmw of heidfeld and Kubica with an inferior car, and from memory, he was the best overtaker of the year.

When lewis said he was hungrier, i thought it wasn't totally right. In all his years, nico had to prove his speed. In his first years because of his name. Than, when mercedes signed a 7 times word champion, it was a tricky situation as he could more loose than win. He once again had to prove his worth against lewis and endured extreme pressure from brawn in the first races (team orders)

 

In conclusion, while Lewis on the same period was justly considered as the fastest man of the grid, under the spotlight, Nico rosberg was impressive too.


Edited by malibu, 27 June 2014 - 00:32.


#35 Riverside

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:12

andrewf1, on 26 Jun 2014 - 14:45, said:snapback.png

 

Note that both cars suffered overheating problems, in Canada as well as in Austria - just in case some of Hamilton's detractors lurking around here are eager to point out that the overheating was Lewis' own doing.

 

 

 

 So, what do you make of Toto's comments ?

 

   "Clearly, Nico that afternoon was the faster guy. Why was he the faster guy? Because he was starting in P3 and not in P9, so Lewis's result was compromised by Saturday.

"He was chasing him [Rosberg], but if you push your brakes and your tyres harder they suffer more than the guy in the lead."



#36 Kingshark

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:46

On Nico Rosberg's 29th birthday he has a 29 point lead over his 29 year old teammate Lewis Hamilton.



#37 Kingshark

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 05:48

And to get you in the right mood... here's Hammys pole lap from 2013:

 

Nico Rosberg +0,452

 

Lewis also beat Nico by a very similar margin around Canada qualifying in 2013. We all know what happened around there this year.   ;)


Edited by Kingshark, 27 June 2014 - 05:48.


#38 Nemo1965

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:13

The difference in relaying the same message to Brainiac and LewLew  :lol:

 

 

I noticed this during the race, that in the closing stages Lewis had quickly reduced the deficit to Rosberg to about 1 second in the space of a few laps, but later on this distance increased to 1.5 - 2 seconds and we again heard some radio calls about keeping the brakes in temperature. I'm convinced Lewis had more pace in this race, as well as in qualifying.

 

Looking at the bigger picture, it's a shame really. This might be a question for the car thread, but what has happened to Merc that they are suddenly (by suddenly I mean since Canada) having these brake temperature problems. Not only that, but they've also had to increase the openings at the rear of the car. I'm pretty sure that Malaysia, Bahrain and Spain had higher air and track temperatures than Canada and Austria, yet they seemed to run just fine there.

 

Also, how nice is it that in the races where Merc has rear brake temperature problems, Lewis is the one doing the chasing, thus being quite severely compromised in his attempts to follow the leading car in order to get close enough to overtake.

 

Note that both cars suffered overheating problems, in Canada as well as in Austria - just in case some of Hamilton's detractors lurking around here are eager to point out that the overheating was Lewis' own doing.

 

Nonetheless, in Spain and Bahrain, Nico, of course, had no overheating troubles while closely following the leading car and was able to apply pressure until the very end. Not that it mattered in the end.

 

Am I completely wrong to have the tendency to read between the lines in your post?

 

Perhaps you can answer that, but anyway: regarding Spain and Bahrain (do they rhyme), the non-heating mystery can have two explanations, IMHO.

 

1. In Canada the Mercedes-crew THOUGHT they could manage the heat of the the PU-system and the brakes. Perhaps the temps were the same as in Spain and Bahrain. And they did not think much of it. But after Canada... they changed their minds. The definition of 'overheating' is of course purely based on what you tolerate as an engineer, not neccesarily what the engine technically can handle.

 

2. IF it is true that Rosberg in Spain and Bahrain had no problems following Hamilton closely, (see point 1), perhaps that has something to do with the infamous brake-bias setting? Apparently, Hamilton is better in braking 2014 than Rosberg, or so I have understood. I also think to have heard this has partly to do with the way Hamilton has a more extreme brake-bias setting (this explanation is courtesey of JJ Cale. Not the singer. The poster). This, in speed, supposed superior set-up supposedly heats up the PU and rearaxle and brakes more than a more traditional setting.



#39 andrewf1

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:20

 

 So, what do you make of Toto's comments ?

 

   "Clearly, Nico that afternoon was the faster guy. Why was he the faster guy? Because he was starting in P3 and not in P9, so Lewis's result was compromised by Saturday.

"He was chasing him [Rosberg], but if you push your brakes and your tyres harder they suffer more than the guy in the lead."

 

 

Not quite sure what your point is, I already addressed that in my initial post.

 

I agree with Toto but I pointed out above that in Bahrain and Spain, Nico was chasing Lewis even more closely and the Mercs had no overheating problems at all, thus enabling him to attack all the time, especially at the end.

It's a shame that such problems have surfaced when the roles have been reversed, with Lewis doing chasing, unable to attack all the time because of brake temperature management. Both cars have suffered this problem in the last 2 races. Also, Hamilton's tyres were fine to the end, he had managed to better preserve them in the previous stints as well.

 

Lap 44  Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: Yeah brakes are under control now plenty safe at the moment so just keep managing them.
 
Lap 50 Lewis Hamilton - Peter Bonnington: Does he have a brake issue like me or not?
 
Lap 50 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: You are both in the same position so it will need management.
 
Lap 52 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: The end of the last stint rear tyres were looking a little better for you so may have an opportunity at the end of this race.
 
Lap 56 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: So front left brake over limit. Just have a think about that B-bal.
 
Lap 58 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: Brakes now on the limit. Losing a little bit on braking two and three but that may be management.
 
Lap 71 Peter Bonnington - Lewis Hamilton: OK Lewis you are free to use overtake but stay in strat six. Strat six, just keep managing these brakes.

Edited by andrewf1, 27 June 2014 - 07:39.


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#40 andrewf1

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:38

Am I completely wrong to have the tendency to read between the lines in your post?

 

Perhaps you can answer that, but anyway: regarding Spain and Bahrain (do they rhyme), the non-heating mystery can have two explanations, IMHO.

 

1. In Canada the Mercedes-crew THOUGHT they could manage the heat of the the PU-system and the brakes. Perhaps the temps were the same as in Spain and Bahrain. And they did not think much of it. But after Canada... they changed their minds. The definition of 'overheating' is of course purely based on what you tolerate as an engineer, not neccesarily what the engine technically can handle.

 

2. IF it is true that Rosberg in Spain and Bahrain had no problems following Hamilton closely, (see point 1), perhaps that has something to do with the infamous brake-bias setting? Apparently, Hamilton is better in braking 2014 than Rosberg, or so I have understood. I also think to have heard this has partly to do with the way Hamilton has a more extreme brake-bias setting (this explanation is courtesey of JJ Cale. Not the singer. The poster). This, in speed, supposed superior set-up supposedly heats up the PU and rearaxle and brakes more than a more traditional setting.

 

I wasn't really writing anything between the lines, it definitely wasn't a conspiracy post at all. 

 

The fact is that these brake temperature problems have surfaced when Lewis has been doing the chasing.

Now for some, correlation might immediately imply causation, i.e. it's Lewis' fault because he was pushing too hard while being behind. 

 

I've been trying to disprove that by mentioning that in Canada as well as in Austria, both Mercs had temperature management problems, not just Hamilton who was behind. We all know what it lead to in Canada and the evidence is there for Austria in the radio snippets above. Also, because of these problems, Hamilton's chasing for the lead suffered a compromise, whereas Rosberg's chasing in Spain and Bahrain did not.



#41 Nemo1965

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:41

I wasn't really writing anything between the lines, it definitely wasn't a conspiracy post at all. 

 

The fact is that these brake temperature problems have surfaced when Lewis has been doing the chasing.

Now for some, correlation might immediately imply causation, i.e. it's Lewis' fault because he was pushing too hard while being behind. 

 

I've been trying to disprove that by mentioning that in Canada as well as in Austria, both Mercs had temperature management problems, not just Hamilton who was behind. We all know what it lead to in Canada and the evidence is there for Austria in the radio snippets above. Also, because of these problems, Hamilton's chasing for the lead suffered a compromise, whereas Rosberg's chasing in Spain and Bahrain did not.

 

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. :up:

 

But what do you think of my possible explanations? I do not pretend to have any superior knowledge about this subject, I am curious about your (and other) opinions.


Edited by Nemo1965, 27 June 2014 - 07:45.


#42 andrewf1

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:48

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. :up:

 

But what do you think of my possible explanations? I do not pretend to have any superior knowledge about this subject, I am curious about your (and other) opinions.

 

Well I would assume they are plausible explanations, especially your first point about Canada. I think the team even admitted to having seen an up-coming problem in the MGU-K and rear brake temperatures but not thinking much of it.
 
The 2nd explanation about Hamilton's brake bias could also hold water, although it didn't seem to bother him at all at previous races and it's always against the background of a constant dialogue with his race engineer. 
 
The 3rd, most plausible explanation to me, is that the less aggressive engine brake settings Mercedes used for Austria (after the Canada PU disaster) also meant more strain on the actual brakes, which would explain why both cars suffered temp manangement problems.
 

 

Jock Clear - Lewis Hamilton: I think for the first couple of stops it’s not a bad idea to come back to EB [engine braking] three. Don’t forget these EB levels are lower than normal. So EB two that you’ve got now is sort of EB one-and-a-half in the past. So EB three would have been EB two at other races and on Friday.

 

(source - http://www.f1fanatic...dio-transcript/ )

 
Which brings me back to my original point, that this is an issue Nico did not have to deal with in Bahrain and Spain and that it's quite unfortunate to have happened to Lewis when the roles were reversed.

Edited by andrewf1, 27 June 2014 - 08:50.


#43 f1fastestlap

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:27

Yeah, It was obvious that lewis was having problems and did not put too much pressure on nico except on final laps. That brake management is giving the guy in front a free pass and hampering who's behind to make a real challenge.

What we saw in Austria makes me believe that mercedes will continue to make things this way because they have an huge advantage over the field...



#44 f1supreme

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:45

The difference in relaying the same message to Brainiac and LewLew  :lol:

 

 

I noticed this during the race, that in the closing stages Lewis had quickly reduced the deficit to Rosberg to about 1 second in the space of a few laps, but later on this distance increased to 1.5 - 2 seconds and we again heard some radio calls about keeping the brakes in temperature. I'm convinced Lewis had more pace in this race, as well as in qualifying.

 

Looking at the bigger picture, it's a shame really. This might be a question for the car thread, but what has happened to Merc that they are suddenly (by suddenly I mean since Canada) having these brake temperature problems. Not only that, but they've also had to increase the openings at the rear of the car. I'm pretty sure that Malaysia, Bahrain and Spain had higher air and track temperatures than Canada and Austria, yet they seemed to run just fine there.

 

Also, how nice is it that in the races where Merc has rear brake temperature problems, Lewis is the one doing the chasing, thus being quite severely compromised in his attempts to follow the leading car in order to get close enough to overtake.

 

Note that both cars suffered overheating problems, in Canada as well as in Austria - just in case some of Hamilton's detractors lurking around here are eager to point out that the overheating was Lewis' own doing.

 

Nonetheless, in Spain and Bahrain, Nico, of course, had no overheating troubles while closely following the leading car and was able to apply pressure until the very end. Not that it mattered in the end.

lewis said he kept losing power during the race..he said it was wierd,and it needed to be looked at......Hamilton said: "I easily had the pace [to win] but something was weird. My power was dropping and his wasn't and we need to investigate what that was. We're always trying to manage power. Perhaps we could have been a bit more optimal."


Edited by f1supreme, 27 June 2014 - 10:52.


#45 Mercedestorque1

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 10:47

 Part V Lewis strikes back............hopefully

im very confident he will only Dnfs could get in the way.



#46 SophieB

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 11:22

Fans of Nico Rosberg may enjoy the Merc twitter account's birthday tribute:

 

A very happy 29th birthday to @nico_rosberg from everyone @MercedesAMGF1! Check out some of our fave #NR6 moments!#F1 pic.twitter.com/QgQCq1TR90

 

wnRF17X.jpg



#47 Riverside

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:53

Not quite sure what your point is, I already addressed that in my initial post.

 

I agree with Toto but I pointed out above that in Bahrain and Spain, Nico was chasing Lewis even more closely and the Mercs had no overheating problems at all, thus enabling him to attack all the time, especially at the end.

It's a shame that such problems have surfaced when the roles have been reversed, with Lewis doing chasing, unable to attack all the time because of brake temperature management. Both cars have suffered this problem in the last 2 races. Also, Hamilton's tyres were fine to the end, he had managed to better preserve them in the previous stints as well.

 

  My point is that Toto's comments explain in very simple terms that pushing and chasing and then add dirty air on circuits that are the hardest on brakes on the entire year ---  the outcome

is almost predictable.  Please do not interpret my post to any sort of "agenda" that usually gets implied  -  this is not about Lewis is a car beater ,  Nico is better ... bla bla ....  

 

  The fact that both cars have heating issues on brakes at these circuits are not that surprising ... the entire grid similar issues.  Meanwhile if we say that Nico had the luxury of attacking  Lewis

and no such issues at Bahrain and Spain - one just has be reminded that he didn't spend 1/3 of his race within 1-2s of Lewis at either of those races.   Even so - he was never really close to Lewis

at Spain to ever attempt a pass ....  so these scenarios , in my opinion have no comparison to Austria .



#48 Nemo1965

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 14:50

 

Well I would assume they are plausible explanations, especially your first point about Canada. I think the team even admitted to having seen an up-coming problem in the MGU-K and rear brake temperatures but not thinking much of it.
 
The 2nd explanation about Hamilton's brake bias could also hold water, although it didn't seem to bother him at all at previous races and it's always against the background of a constant dialogue with his race engineer. 
 
The 3rd, most plausible explanation to me, is that the less aggressive engine brake settings Mercedes used for Austria (after the Canada PU disaster) also meant more strain on the actual brakes, which would explain why both cars suffered temp manangement problems.
 
 
Which brings me back to my original point, that this is an issue Nico did not have to deal with in Bahrain and Spain and that it's quite unfortunate to have happened to Lewis when the roles were reversed.

 

 

Excellent post. The only thing I 'object' to is the 'unfortunate for Lewis'-part. Lewis won in Bahrain and Spain. If Rosberg would have been able to overtake Hamilton there, you could have a point. Otherwise, well...



#49 andrewf1

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 16:10

Excellent post. The only thing I 'object' to is the 'unfortunate for Lewis'-part. Lewis won in Bahrain and Spain. If Rosberg would have been able to overtake Hamilton there, you could have a point. Otherwise, well...


I considered it unfortunate because Lewis' chances of an attack were compromised, whereas Nico's weren't. Whether Nico managed to overtake or not in the end is a different matter altogether.

#50 garagetinkerer

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 16:31

My point is that Toto's comments explain in very simple terms that pushing and chasing and then add dirty air on circuits that are the hardest on brakes on the entire year ---  the outcome

is almost predictable.  Please do not interpret my post to any sort of "agenda" that usually gets implied  -  this is not about Lewis is a car beater ,  Nico is better ... bla bla ....  

 

  The fact that both cars have heating issues on brakes at these circuits are not that surprising ... the entire grid similar issues.  Meanwhile if we say that Nico had the luxury of attacking  Lewis

and no such issues at Bahrain and Spain - one just has be reminded that he didn't spend 1/3 of his race within 1-2s of Lewis at either of those races.   Even so - he was never really close to Lewis

at Spain to ever attempt a pass ....  so these scenarios , in my opinion have no comparison to Austria.

:up:  Thank you... I think people underestimate how important running in clear air is at some of the tracks.