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Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo 2014 part II


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#1351 apoka

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Posted Yesterday, 21:19

I suspect the weather could play a role in the team mate battle this weekend. Conditions have been unusually mixed this week and I think there'll be a few showers on the weekend as well (not necessarily during qualy and races), which will make it difficult to predict how the track will evolve. 

 

For Vettel it was good to have a clean Friday without mechanical problems. I still think that most of his struggles early in the season were down to simply not having time to adjust to the car - although of course as the season progresses this problem diminishes. Even with Ric struggling a bit today, I think he'll bounce back and we'll have a good and close fight this weekend with hopefully a podium in reach.



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#1352 v@sh

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Posted Yesterday, 21:33

I suspect the weather could play a role in the team mate battle this weekend. Conditions have been unusually mixed this week and I think there'll be a few showers on the weekend as well (not necessarily during qualy and races), which will make it difficult to predict how the track will evolve. 

 

For Vettel it was good to have a clean Friday without mechanical problems. I still think that most of his struggles early in the season were down to simply not having time to adjust to the car - although of course as the season progresses this problem diminishes. Even with Ric struggling a bit today, I think he'll bounce back and we'll have a good and close fight this weekend with hopefully a podium in reach.

 

He struggled a lot IMO, the furthest he has been behind Vettel since the start of the season. I think it is more down to the poor grip levels + balance for DR. Still expecting him to turn it around for qualifying but it's a massive gap not just in ultimate pace but long runs as well.

 

Vettel's car looked so much more planted in the FP sessions compared to DR. He is looking particularly good, will be interesting if DR can claw back the difference.



#1353 tghik

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Posted Yesterday, 22:33

If Dan has a few gremlins in FP, perhaps these are the same gremlins Seb has been having every time Dan has been faster.

 

Just a thought.  :cool:

British GP Dan also had problems in FP2, but this guy doesn't cry like Seb so nobody pay attention



#1354 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 01:14

If Dan has a few gremlins in FP, perhaps these are the same gremlins Seb has been having every time Dan has been faster.

 

Just a thought.  :cool:

 

Very well could be true. But its just strange for the typically faster driver to look so far off the pace mid season (assuming his pace carries over to the race).



#1355 bourbon

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Posted Today, 01:48

http://sebastianvett...e/index.php/en/

 

More joking around with Seb and Dan



#1356 Exb

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Posted Today, 01:56

http://sebastianvett...e/index.php/en/
 
More joking around with Seb and Dan


That is quite amusing (or maybe its just because I've had to much wine tonight???) anyway made me laugh so thanks for posting :up:

 



#1357 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 09:29

Horner just said that Seb feels really comfortable with the car now thanks to some updates and tweaks. Interesting, I wonder if his recent rise of form is due to the car being built around his preferences.


Edited by Thomas99, Today, 09:38.


#1358 skc

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Posted Today, 09:49

Horner just said that Seb feels really comfortable with the car now thanks to some updates and tweaks. Interesting, I wonder if his recent rise of form is due to the car being built around his preferences.

 

Pretty sure thats bullsh*t.

 

Befeore every race Horner claims Redbull are closing the gap and Seb is happier with the car and every race the opposite happens.

 

I'll believe it when I see it.



#1359 goingthedistance

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Posted Today, 09:52

Horner just said that Seb feels really comfortable with the car now thanks to some updates and tweaks. Interesting, I wonder if his recent rise of form is due to the car being built around his preferences.


Of course. They've never tried to conceal the fact, particularly this year with Dan clearly being their junior driver. An interesting comment in the F1 Racing article on Dan is that part of his success this year is based on him coming in and saying to his guys "we can't do anything about decisions made by management, let's just focus on doing what we can with what we have." Contrast with Mark who got very upset with things.

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#1360 1Devil1

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Posted Today, 10:01

Horner just said that Seb feels really comfortable with the car now thanks to some updates and tweaks. Interesting, I wonder if his recent rise of form is due to the car being built around his preferences.

 

Excuse time even before the race - even yesterday you started to be suspicious - I know your comments if Vettel beats Dan this race. Maybe Vettel raised his game and Dan is struggling with the setup - but you are looking for favoritism, cheap shot



#1361 joshb

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Posted Today, 10:10

As most suspected.... there's nothing in it again



#1362 goingthedistance

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Posted Today, 10:11

Excuse time even before the race - even yesterday you started to be suspicious - I know your comments if Vettel beats Dan this race. Maybe Vettel raised his game and Dan is struggling with the setup - but you are looking for favoritism, cheap shot


Excuses? Are you seriously contesting that the team don't design the car around their 4x WDC? They're on record consistently saying that Seb will improve once they get the car to his liking. There are articles on the way Newey built specific peculiarities (roll oversteer) into cars in previous years.

It's not an excuse because Dan has been driving a car optimised for Seb ALL year, it's just that things are finally gelling for Seb with enough new parts. It's been a gradual process and eventually things had to click.

#1363 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 10:15

Pretty sure thats bullsh*t.

 

Befeore every race Horner claims Redbull are closing the gap and Seb is happier with the car and every race the opposite happens.

 

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

Well Seb could be comfortable. He's been driving well lately, there is no reason to assume he isn't comfortable.

 

As for them catching Mercedes, thats a different story.

 

Of course. They've never tried to conceal the fact, particularly this year with Dan clearly being their junior driver. An interesting comment in the F1 Racing article on Dan is that part of his success this year is based on him coming in and saying to his guys "we can't do anything about decisions made by management, let's just focus on doing what we can with what we have." Contrast with Mark who got very upset with things.

 

Well Vettel was always going to be the team leader. He is the 4x champion, its not like Daniel will join the team and they'll start to develop the car to Daniel's preferences. The RB10 was designed for Seb pre season and he'll have more political sway within the team. But that hasn't stopped Daniel beating him so far, he kind of does have to earn his equal status. He looks there or there abouts now.

 

Excuse time even before the race - even yesterday you started to be suspicious - I know your comments if Vettel beats Dan this race. Maybe Vettel raised his game and Dan is struggling with the setup - but you are looking for favoritism, cheap shot

 

How is that an excuse? Seb is saying that he's comfortable in the car now so they've obviously worked with him to change the car to make him comfortable. That doesn't necessarily only benefit him but not Daniel. If Seb drives better he drives better, its as simple as that. I don't think implying that the team would be pushing development to help their 4x WDC is example 'suspicion' or a 'conspiracy'. Daniel had no development input into this years car and it hasn't hurt him so far.

 

I was more just posting that Horner has now said Vettel is comfortable. So that "Seb doesn't like the car" stuff is over.



#1364 Exb

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Posted Today, 10:16

Excuses? Are you seriously contesting that the team don't design the car around their 4x WDC? They're on record consistently saying that Seb will improve once they get the car to his liking. There are articles on the way Newey built specific peculiarities (roll oversteer) into cars in previous years.

It's not an excuse because Dan has been driving a car optimised for Seb ALL year, it's just that things are finally gelling for Seb with enough new parts. It's been a gradual process and eventually things had to click.


And yet at that Silverstone test a couple of weeks ago Daniel drove on the day they could test set-up changes and trial updates whereas Seb drove during the tyre test when they couldn't make changes. That surprised me a bit to be honest because if they were trying updates to help Seb you would have thought it would be him trialling them???

#1365 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 10:19

Excuses? Are you seriously contesting that the team don't design the car around their 4x WDC? They're on record consistently saying that Seb will improve once they get the car to his liking. There are articles on the way Newey built specific peculiarities (roll oversteer) into cars in previous years.

It's not an excuse because Dan has been driving a car optimised for Seb ALL year, it's just that things are finally gelling for Seb with enough new parts. It's been a gradual process and eventually things had to click.

 

Daniel has proved himself in many ways so he'll start to get more say in the car now. I'm not saying it will be 50:50 but they'll be listening to what he has to say. Next years car should hopefully be far more optimised for his preferences, whatever they are but this year he just has to do his best in a car designed around Seb.

 

 

As most suspected.... there's nothing in it again

 

For Daniel it looks light and day. Seb improved just over 5 tenths from yesterday's best time. Daniel took 9 tenths out of his FP2 time and he had traffic on his run.



#1366 1Devil1

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Posted Today, 10:20

Excuses? Are you seriously contesting that the team don't design the car around their 4x WDC? They're on record consistently saying that Seb will improve once they get the car to his liking. There are articles on the way Newey built specific peculiarities (roll oversteer) into cars in previous years.

It's not an excuse because Dan has been driving a car optimised for Seb ALL year, it's just that things are finally gelling for Seb with enough new parts. It's been a gradual process and eventually things had to click.

 

They want to improve the car - if Red Bull is the team of Sebastian Vettel, why did they let Dan beat him this season, gave Seb from time to time not the best strategy. They acted like a team which treat their driver equally, people even were surprised there was no favoritism  for Vettel and Red Bull got his head washed when he was complaining like Alonso for Ferrari. Did they really act like a team that was build around one guy, and were the car just is only build for him? After the great season of Dan what sense does it make to build a car only for the liking of Vettel?  They saw Dan is good as Seb under the right circumstances - why go the route and make the car good for one driver and bad for the another driver? Newey always stated he want to build a fast car and not to liking of a specific driver. Your are twisting the quotes here - Newey meant if the car will be better Sebastian will have it easier and not we build a car just for Sebastian.. 



#1367 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 10:20

They want to improve the car - if Red Bull is the team of Sebastian Vettel, why did they let Dan beat him this season, gave Seb from time to time not the best strategy. They acted like a team which treat their driver equally, people even were surprised there was no favoritism  for Vettel and Red Bull got his head washed when he was complaining like Alonso for Ferrari. Did they really act like a team that was build around one guy, and were the car just is only build for him? After the great season of Dan what sense does it make to build a car only for the liking of Vettel?  They saw Dan is good as Seb under the right circumstances - why go the route and make the car good for one driver and bad for the another driver? Newey always stated he want to build a fast car and not to liking of a specific driver. Your are twisting the quotes here - Newey meant if the car will be better Sebastian will have it easier and not we build a car just for Sebastian..

 
Vettel has had the best strategy at every race. He sometimes hasn't made it work but there isn't a race this year he wasn't on the optimal strategy for his performance.
 
I think its a bit paranoid to imply that Vettel has been put on inferior strategies.



#1368 goingthedistance

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Posted Today, 10:21

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact. Red Bull design their car around Seb Vettel. If Dan was a 4x WDC and Seb a junior in his first year in the team I'd expect the car to be developed around Dan. It's just how F1 works. Experience and long term relationships count.

#1369 Obi Offiah

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Posted Today, 10:23

Well, Daniel had to recover from the back of the grid at Hockenheim. He still out qualified Vettel and looked like the quicker driver. I wouldn't really cite Germany as evidence of Seb being faster.

 

His best race speed wise for me was Silverstone. He actually looked fast there.

Malaysia as well.



#1370 1Devil1

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Posted Today, 10:26

It's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact. Red Bull design their car around Seb Vettel. If Dan was a 4x WDC and Seb a junior in his first year in the team I'd expect the car to be developed around Dan. It's just how F1 works. Experience and long term relationships count.

 

It's not a fact given the facts and the quotes of Newey in the past - he wants to build a rocketship that the purpose and nothing else. We are midseason Dan was better than Vettel the whole season, were is the sense just to go after the likings of Vettel - when Dan has a good positions in the standings. Come on let's shift the development torwards Sebastian, who cares about the actual performance situation, because he is the 4WDC



#1371 grichka

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Posted Today, 10:30

Best sector times are very close, it is all about who will put the lap together - looks like 50/50.


Edited by grichka, Today, 10:30.


#1372 1Devil1

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Posted Today, 10:31

I don't really think the fact they'll be developing the car to help Vettel's problems is a conspiracy theory.

 

 

 

 

Vettel has had the best strategy at every race. He sometimes hasn't made it work but there isn't a race this year he wasn't on the optimal strategy for his performance.

 

I think its a bit paranoid to imply that Vettel has been put on inferior strategies.

 

Could you stop to descirbe users as paranoid? I did not say Vettel got not the best strategies - my point was they both got the strategies fitting for the positions and not strategies to favor Seb like Alonso and Raikkonen from time to time. The point was they acted like a team with equal team mates, but about that point you did not care...



#1373 goingthedistance

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Posted Today, 10:32

They have not shifted development towards Seb it's always been in that direction. Quote after quote from Horner and Marko on the matter this year.

And just now the comment from Horner on Sky, about all the little bits and pieces they've been bringing to help Seb get his mojo back, how can you deny that? Dan was not mentioned...

#1374 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 10:34

Could you stop to descirbe users as paranoid? I did not say Vettel got not the best strategies - my point was they both got the strategies fitting for the positions and not strategies to favor Seb like Alonso and Raikkonen from time to time. The point was they acted like a team with equal team mates, but about that point you did not care...

I agree with you that they've been given equal strategy preferences to maximise their races. Vettel hasn't been put on the "A strategy". But I don't think Vettel has been put on the B strategy either at any point. They just do the best they can for both cars.

 

I disagree that Alonso has been favored over Raikkonen at all.



#1375 TomNokoe

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Posted Today, 10:34

Danny Ric closing in *jaws theme*

For Vettel's sake I think he really needs this, I think he will be baffled if he doesn't make it this time, especially with Horner saying he's as comfortable as he's ever been at any point this year.

#1376 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 10:36

They have not shifted development towards Seb it's always been in that direction. Quote after quote from Horner and Marko on the matter this year.

And just now the comment from Horner on Sky, about all the little bits and pieces they've been bringing to help Seb get his mojo back, how can you deny that? Dan was not mentioned...

Interesting enough Horner had a quote I saw on the weekend (I forget when) he was more or less asked about Vettel leaving and he said they'll do everything they can to make Seb comfortable and stay, but then said something I've never heard from him before he followed it up with "but as Daniel has shown this season, we have incredible depth to the team".

 

He was kind of saying "You know, if Seb does leave we'll be fine"

 

 

Danny Ric closing in *jaws theme*

For Vettel's sake I think he really needs this, I think he will be baffled if he doesn't make it this time, especially with Horner saying he's as comfortable as he's ever been at any point this year.

 



Seb will get it this weekend. He does just look a bit faster. But it will continue the trend of being very close by the looks of things.


Edited by Thomas99, Today, 10:38.


#1377 1Devil1

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Posted Today, 10:42

They have not shifted development towards Seb it's always been in that direction. Quote after quote from Horner and Marko on the matter this year.

And just now the comment from Horner on Sky, about all the little bits and pieces they've been bringing to help Seb get his mojo back, how can you deny that? Dan was not mentioned...

 

Do Horner and Marko make the car? What Newey said is contradicting their comments and of their comments I am aware of. That the car was build around Vettel, this is logical he was the lead driver, that's they want to sort out his problems too, but I don't like the fact that we are in practice and a gap is explained by favoritism with an easy explanation - it's not like Red Bull put some new parts on the car to put in Vettel in front and get Dan behind. Because there is no other room for this performance shift for some users, setups woes and Sebastian just being better this time - no it's only the development route of Red Bull - nothing else, coming from the same users that take every opportunity to explain us what bad job Sebastian is doing this year. I can agree they have the woes of Sebastian in mind and take it into account, but it's not like a one sided game, and they don't care about the input of Dan, who is doing a fabulous job. Wouldn't make a lot of sense. You have a young great driver in your car, another one leaving the next years, to destroy him be taking a development route to favor just one driver. 


Edited by 1Devil1, Today, 10:49.


#1378 goingthedistance

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Posted Today, 10:43

Interesting enough Horner had a quote I saw on the weekend (I forget when) he was more or less asked about Vettel leaving and he said they'll do everything they can to make Seb comfortable and stay, but then said something I've never heard from him before he followed it up with "but as Daniel has shown this season, we have incredible depth to the team".
 
He was kind of saying "You know, if Seb does leave we'll be fine.

Seb will get it this weekend. He does just look a bit faster. But it will continue the trend of being very close by the looks of things.


I heard that too. First sign that Seb doesn't have 100% power. But as long as he's there he will get the decisive call on development direction if their tastes differ IMO.

Agree that Seb will get it this weekend.

#1379 TomNokoe

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Posted Today, 10:45

Get what? Dude has to earn it! Will be very exciting :)

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#1380 artista

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Posted Today, 10:52

Cleaning up finished.

Please, discuss Ricciardo and Vettel and not other forum posters.

If you see something that is against the rules, please, report it and don't quote/answer to it!

Thanks!



#1381 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 13:11

Great job by Vettel. He mastered those changeable conditions. He looked really good there today.

 

As for Daniel, under 2 tenths. We'll take it. Although starting infront of both Alonso and Massa will be a struggle to hold them off.


Edited by Thomas99, Today, 13:11.


#1382 icecream

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Posted Today, 13:13

good work by vettel.  shame he couldn't hold pole, but in reality the mercedes are in another league.  it's kinda ridiculous. 

 

and good recovery by ric.  changeable conditions have never really been his forte, but second row is decent. 



#1383 Dalton007

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Posted Today, 13:14

Vettel Strikes Back  :up:



#1384 Risil

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Posted Today, 13:15

He was kind of saying "You know, if Seb does leave we'll be fine"

 

Tbh after the Malaysia 2013 debacle I doubt there's much warmth between Horner and Vettel.



#1385 skc

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Posted Today, 13:19

Very good effort from Vettel there. Hoping he can push on and get a well deserved podium. Beating both Williams in qualifying is a job well done.

#1386 PassWind

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Posted Today, 13:19

Good job by the team and the Drivers, hopefully Seb has the pace to put a lot of pressure on Rosberg during the race, Bottas stealing the show a little but DR is close enough to challenge for a podium if things fall his way.

 

Start will be crucial here with the Alonso and the Bomber behind them. 

 

So lap 1-5 should be great, lets see if this spec car defies the Hungary snore fest. 

 

Goal for tomorrow ought to be, beat the Williams and Seb push for the win. 

 

The Redbull v Williams battle till the season end will be fascinating. 



#1387 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 13:24

Very good effort from Vettel there. Hoping he can push on and get a well deserved podium. Beating both Williams in qualifying is a job well done.

 

The Williams shouldn't really be as strong here anyway. Their strength is straight lines which there are very few of in Hungary. But I think today Williams have shown that even at a Red Bull track they can still be very competitive.

 

Tough luck for Ricciardo a bit today, he was under 2 tenths behind but has the Williams of Bottas jammed in between the two cars.



#1388 krapmeister

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Posted Today, 13:31

Besides the Merc PU, Pat Symonds has been the best thing to happen to Williams in while...

#1389 Diablobb81

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Posted Today, 13:31

Good to see a very good quali by Seb but let's see if he solved his tires issues.

#1390 DavidHeath461

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Posted Today, 13:43

The Williams shouldn't really be as strong here anyway. Their strength is straight lines which there are very few of in Hungary. But I think today Williams have shown that even at a Red Bull track they can still be very competitive.

Tough luck for Ricciardo a bit today, he was under 2 tenths behind but has the Williams of Bottas jammed in between the two cars.


Yeh if Ricciardo got a few hundredths more. He would have been 3rd and in with a decent chance of nailing Vettel off the start. Instead he is on the dirty side and will most likely be nailed by Alonso at the start.

7-4 now in quali.

Vettel def seems to have the advantage in changeable conditions.

#1391 tghik

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Posted Today, 13:44

Good job by Vettel. Daniel not hot here. But RBR made a mistake with the strategy, they should pit for new tyres for the last shot.



#1392 TomNokoe

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Posted Today, 13:45

Awesome battle this is

#1393 Thomas99

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Posted Today, 13:46

Yeh if Ricciardo got a few hundredths more. He would have been 3rd and in with a decent chance of nailing Vettel off the start. Instead he is on the dirty side and will most likely be nailed by Alonso at the start.

7-4 now in quali.

Vettel def seems to have the advantage in changeable conditions.

Its not really that surprising. Daniel never looked amazing in them relative to Vergne.

Still, if the worst we see from him is 2 tenths behind we'll take it.



#1394 Briz

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Posted Today, 13:54

I heard that too. First sign that Seb doesn't have 100% power. But as long as he's there he will get the decisive call on development direction if their tastes differ IMO.

Agree that Seb will get it this weekend.

 

I think development direction will be dictated by potential of getting closer to Williams and Mercedes, no matter which driver it suits.



#1395 tghik

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Posted Today, 13:55

Its not really that surprising. Daniel never looked amazing in them relative to Vergne.

Still, if the worst we see from him is 2 tenths behind we'll take it.

Whatever the conditions, Dan didn't look good from first practice on here. He still has the race where he he usually goes faster as he race progresses so everythinf is possible.

 

Can you believe the luck Hamilton has, the guy for sure is faster than Rosberg, but because of his star alignment his championship shot is pretty much almost lost. The worst is it prevents the fans from seeing another great competition this season.



#1396 DavidHeath461

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Posted Today, 14:00

Good job by Vettel. Daniel not hot here. But RBR made a mistake with the strategy, they should pit for new tyres for the last shot.


Generally speaking Ricciardo is not great around the hungaroring. Was outqualified by Verge in 2012 and Liuzzi in 2011.

#1397 bourbon

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Posted Today, 14:58

Great job by Sebastian!  :up:

 

Do Horner and Marko make the car? What Newey said is contradicting their comments and of their comments I am aware of. That the car was build around Vettel, this is logical he was the lead driver, that's they want to sort out his problems too, but I don't like the fact that we are in practice and a gap is explained by favoritism with an easy explanation - it's not like Red Bull put some new parts on the car to put in Vettel in front and get Dan behind. Because there is no other room for this performance shift for some users, setups woes and Sebastian just being better this time - no it's only the development route of Red Bull - nothing else, coming from the same users that take every opportunity to explain us what bad job Sebastian is doing this year. I can agree they have the woes of Sebastian in mind and take it into account, but it's not like a one sided game, and they don't care about the input of Dan, who is doing a fabulous job. Wouldn't make a lot of sense. You have a young great driver in your car, another one leaving the next years, to destroy him be taking a development route to favor just one driver. 

 

Indeed in 2010 Horner said they were building the car around Seb.  However, for 2014, Newey said that Seb had to come to the car and that it would be a 're-learning curve' because as Newey put it, Seb was quick before the EBD regs, but adjusted his style to make the most use of the EBD over the last 4 years (which he did brilliantly), but now he has to re-adjust his style to something similar to pre-EBD era regs.  All they can do is make adjustments to the car to try to suit Seb's style - as they do for Dan as parts are introduced (although Dan took to the car and new regs 'as is' pretty quickly).   Horner fells the newest bits are assisting Seb and I am sure the engineers hoped they would, but they were manufactured to improve the car on the whole, so basically they hoped they would benefit both drivers.  It is likely to be close in qualifying all year, as it was the majority of the time with Mark.  Thankfully, because not being pushed does neither driver any good.


Edited by bourbon, Today, 15:18.