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Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo 2014 part II


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#2551 K20a

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:10

Strong denial in this thread.

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#2552 lbennie

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:12

 

Ricciardo is unfortunately not someone who could do anything, if Vettel sat once again in his taylor-made dominant comfort-zone car. The drivers who could beat Vettel (as teammate), although Vettel being once again in his comfort zone, are Alonso and Hamilton (and maybe Raikkonen and Rosberg), certainly not Ricciardo.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

You haven't been watching this year?


Edited by lbennie, 31 August 2014 - 02:13.


#2553 Thomas99

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:30

:lol:

 

You haven't been watching this year?

Its quite incredible to come in here and say that someone who has beaten Vettel 7-1 so far this season "couldn't do anything about Vettel".


Edited by Thomas99, 31 August 2014 - 02:30.


#2554 Knot

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:09

Its quite incredible to come in here and say that someone who has beaten Vettel 7-1 so far this season "couldn't do anything about Vettel".

 

People also forgot that Massa beat Vettel 14-3 in 1983.

 

Short memories.



#2555 Jimisgod

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 03:54


Webber was also clearly in front of Vettel in 2012 (shortly after mid-season, as well), as long as the car didn't provide the dominant comfort zone for Vettel. Webber was 2:1 wins in front of him. He was mostly in front of him pointswise up to the point where RedBull was once again capable to provide Vettel his beloved dominant comfort-zone car in 2012 (from Singapur or Suzuka onwards, especially from Suzuka onwards, including South Korea and India). From then on, Vettel killed Webber. And in such cars, I fear, Vettel would kill Ricciardo, as well.


No, if Ferrari/RedBull would be equally strong (like McL/Fer 2007 or Ren/Fer 2006), unfortunately, Vettel would win it (not because he's better than Alonso/Raikkonen), because there would be a situation like 2007: Alonso/Raikkonen four or five wins for each of them (like Alonso/Hamilton in 2007) and Vettel/Ricciardo would be like Raikkonen/Massa in 2007 (kinda 6:3 wins for Vettel).

Ricciardo is unfortunately not someone who could do anything, if Vettel sat once again in his taylor-made dominant comfort-zone car. The drivers who could beat Vettel (as teammate), although Vettel being once again in his comfort zone, are Alonso and Hamilton (and maybe Raikkonen and Rosberg), certainly not Ricciardo.



People so underestimate Hamilton's performance in 2007. Not every rookie who is quite fast could've done what Hamilton did in 2007 against "Super ALO". Ricciardo for sure couldn't have done it. He would been approximately there where Massa was in 2007... That would've been still considered quite good for a rookie, but what Hamilton showed was more than sensational.

[Even Villeneuve's rookie performance in 1996 (he was well prepared as well in 1995 before season 1996 began) was NOHWERE near as good as Hamilton's. And Alonso was a much stronger and much more dangerous teammate than DHill.]


Your constant talking down of Dan is quite pathetic really, and not borne out by the evidence. Maybe you're still living in 2012, but Dan will beat Kimi 9 times out of 10 for the foreseeable future.

So you're saying that Vettel basically needs an absolutely perfect car to win, and would win even though we have never seen Dans performance level in a perfect car? That makes Vettel equal with Button or lower, requiring the best car on the day - by a distance - to finish 1st.

Dan is right now in with a distant but realistic shot at the title in a car that is 2nd or 3rd best by a long margin. Vettel is not. These are facts. This is undoubtedly the best season by a driver since Alonso in 2012. He has one win less than Hamilton did in 2007 (and Hamilton has in 2014!) and Vettel has *none*.

Massa or even Kimi has never shown this ability to maximize his chances as well as this, Kimi missed several possible wins in the last few year and he was still performing great. Dan is a top driver in the sense of Alonso or Hamilton. Sure he needs more seasons to reach their records, but he has shown the crushing maximization of points that only guys like Hamilton (09) and Alonso (12) have shown in bad cars. We will see if he is hot and cold like Hamilton or more consistant like Alonso, but comparing him to Massa is just grumpy negative fanboyism.

#2556 Thomas99

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:28

Seems to be a common excuse this year "My driver needs XYZ type of situation to perform, he's better, but only in ZYX situation so you can't judge"



#2557 goldenboy

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:36

Jesus there is a lot of assumptions being made in this thread! If ferrari and redbull have the best cars it would be 6 to 3 or something or other haha. Lets hope these 2 crash into each other please so we have something real to talk about :p

#2558 1Devil1

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:02

He seems to forget that if you take the Mercedes out of the equation this year's Red Bull would be a dominant car and what is Vettel doing? Trailing around battling with rookies?

 

Guess what you can't just take Mercedes out of the equation because they actually competing against all others, and influence the performance of all other teams, other drivers, you really believe, Vettel would be down that much in the standing if Red Bull would be team number one. The big difference between Dan and Sebastian is also down to races like Canada and Hungary when Mercedes drivers placed in between. You have a easy world when just say take Mercedes, while we would face a complete different scenario in this case. Motivation has a lot to do with performance in every sport, and Vettel having another shot at the title would be a different ball game, not saying he would beat Dan, but just plain stupid to say, oh let's take out Mercedes, Dan would be running away with the championship. Without Germany, Argentina and the Netherlands... Brazil would be world champion in football this year...



#2559 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:10

This thread gets funnier when Dan keeps outdoing Sebastian.

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#2560 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:18



Ricciardo is beating Vettel by much larger margins than Hamilton beat Alonso.

 

That's a good remark which I can use as a hook to show my assumption of those four drivers' strenghts (ALO, HAM, VET, RIC):

 

First, Alonso is overall better than Vettel and people've been saying that since the end of 2010 and especially since the end of 2012 (that's why Hamilton had more problems with Alonso in 2007 than Ricciardo with Vettel right now). I don't think that this derivation (?) lacks any logic, to be honest.

 

And yes, Ricciardo is beating Vettel, because, for me Vettel has always been overrated (because when he was not sitting in a clearly single best car of a weekend he didn't shine), in the sense that he would've been beaten in a not very well suited car for him even by a not sensational teammate which seems to be correct as it happens right now and which happened also in the first half of 2012 as Webber also wasn't a sensational driver (meaning that Vettel mostly didn't have a RedBull which gave him utter confidence without end).

 

And that's what's happening right now. But, once again, if Vettel has an incredibly well-suited car for him (as Newey may find a way to compensate Vettel's loss of confidence), then Vettel will have the upper hand. Because on the other hand, no matter how much overrated Vettel is for me, he is not that bad that, sitting in a dominant car, he cannot beat easily a teammate who isn't sensational but only someone like Webber, Coulthard, Barrichello... or Ricciardo.

 

And, furthermore, I'd like to see Ricciardo having a go against Alonso (2014 Ferrari or 2009 Renault) or Hamilton (2013 Mercedes or 2009 McLaren) as a teammate in a not perfect car (also in a perfect car, of course). In comparison to Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton would have less problems with Ricciardo even in a not perfect car. That's one of many points why people think that ALO/HAM is better than VET. They are great as well against good drivers in not perfect cars.

 

[You also asked why Hamilton is having problem then against Rosberg. Because, for me, since the end of the 2000's, Rosberg is severly underrated. For me, he was never a soft and too nice a driver, like Frentzen maybe... but that's another topic.]


Edited by MetallurgicalHedonist, 31 August 2014 - 10:21.


#2561 Redback

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:20

 

No, I don't have access to telemetry. But I also didn't have access to telemetry when Hamilton entered the stage to say that he is someone really special. I didn't have access to telemetry when Magnussen entered the stage to say that he is not someone special (even despite his third or (after Ricciardo got disqualified) second place at his debut).

 

And even then, I didn't maybe really know all that because that would be kinda arrogant to say (I'm only a fan and not a hardcore expert who is entirely professionally involved in F1), but I had a certain "feeling".

 

 

 

 

Yes, I remember the 2010 YDT after the final race of the season in AbuDhabi. Yes, he was very fast (faster) and it doesn't mean that Ricciardo of course wouldn't help RedBull to easily lock out the front row in qualifying and what not with that kinda car (Hill did that as well when he was kinda rookie in 1993 in SUCH a car, after driving in a much worse car (Brabham 1992) than the ToroRosso). He most certainly would also get some poles and wins but I still do not see or feel a wha-wha-whoom moment.

 

Even the standing of 3:0 wins is like when Button led against Hamilton with 2:0 in 2010 after six races. It was strange that Hamilton would be 0:2 wins behind Button!

 

Back to RIC/VET 2014: You know what would've been a wha-wha-whoom moment? If all those wins or let's say one or two of those three wins would've been won although Mercedes didn't have major problems or where there weren't chaotic circumstances for Mercedes and Ricciardo still had won and at the same time clearly defeated Vettel although Vettel didn't have mechanical or strategic issues to suffer.

 

That would've been clear indicators that Ricciardo is really SOMEONE where Vettel would've had an excuse for being in difficulties against him even as a quadruple.

 

Do you actually read what you've written?

 

...and if so, how do you stop yourself rolling around the floor laughing?  :rotfl:

 

Even the less gifted participants in this forum have worked out that barring mechanical or "other" issues, this year's Mercedes has so far been untouchable and anyone who pretends to "know" otherwise is delusional.

 

That being the case, no one (not Schumie, not Senna, not Clark, not Fangio and certainly not Vettel) would have pulled off a win in the circumstances you describe.  Driving ability only gets you so far, - you still need the right equipment.

 

Oh, and in the races Dan has won this year, Vettel has had no mechanical issues and no strategic issues not of his own making.  Any arguments to the contrary are just fabricated excuses.



#2562 Thomas99

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:58

And that's what's happening right now. But, once again, if Vettel has an incredibly well-suited car for him (as Newey may find a way to compensate Vettel's loss of confidence), then Vettel will have the upper hand. Because on the other hand, no matter how much overrated Vettel is for me, he is not that bad that, sitting in a dominant car, he cannot beat easily a teammate who isn't sensational but only someone like Webber, Coulthard, Barrichello... or Ricciardo.

 

I understand that you said that. I'm just not understanding what information you're using to make that statement.


Edited by Thomas99, 31 August 2014 - 10:59.


#2563 Thomas99

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:06

Guess what you can't just take Mercedes out of the equation because they actually competing against all others, and influence the performance of all other teams, other drivers, you really believe, Vettel would be down that much in the standing if Red Bull would be team number one. The big difference between Dan and Sebastian is also down to races like Canada and Hungary when Mercedes drivers placed in between. You have a easy world when just say take Mercedes, while we would face a complete different scenario in this case. Motivation has a lot to do with performance in every sport, and Vettel having another shot at the title would be a different ball game, not saying he would beat Dan, but just plain stupid to say, oh let's take out Mercedes, Dan would be running away with the championship. Without Germany, Argentina and the Netherlands... Brazil would be world champion in football this year...

 

I think we're talking about different things. I was replying to the "Vettel would be the best in a car that wins the championship" nonsense. I was merely pointing out that had Mercedes made a design error with this years car the RB10 would be the dominant car this year.



#2564 Redback

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:16

That's a good remark which I can use as a hook to show my assumption of those four drivers' strenghts (ALO, HAM, VET, RIC):

 

First, Alonso is overall better than Vettel and people've been saying that since the end of 2010 and especially since the end of 2012 (that's why Hamilton had more problems with Alonso in 2007 than Ricciardo with Vettel right now). I don't think that this derivation (?) lacks any logic, to be honest.

 

And yes, Ricciardo is beating Vettel, because, for me Vettel has always been overrated (because when he was not sitting in a clearly single best car of a weekend he didn't shine), in the sense that he would've been beaten in a not very well suited car for him even by a not sensational teammate which seems to be correct as it happens right now and which happened also in the first half of 2012 as Webber also wasn't a sensational driver (meaning that Vettel mostly didn't have a RedBull which gave him utter confidence without end).

 

And that's what's happening right now. But, once again, if Vettel has an incredibly well-suited car for him (as Newey may find a way to compensate Vettel's loss of confidence), then Vettel will have the upper hand. Because on the other hand, no matter how much overrated Vettel is for me, he is not that bad that, sitting in a dominant car, he cannot beat easily a teammate who isn't sensational but only someone like Webber, Coulthard, Barrichello... or Ricciardo.

 

And, furthermore, I'd like to see Ricciardo having a go against Alonso (2014 Ferrari or 2009 Renault) or Hamilton (2013 Mercedes or 2009 McLaren) as a teammate in a not perfect car (also in a perfect car, of course). In comparison to Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton would have less problems with Ricciardo even in a not perfect car. That's one of many points why people think that ALO/HAM is better than VET. They are great as well against good drivers in not perfect cars.

 

[You also asked why Hamilton is having problem then against Rosberg. Because, for me, since the end of the 2000's, Rosberg is severly underrated. For me, he was never a soft and too nice a driver, like Frentzen maybe... but that's another topic.]

 

Wow!  Well done! 

 

Tell us, - how would you know how good or otherwise Ricciardo is compared with other drivers with whom he has never been partnered?  What objective measures and logical determinants have you used to formulate a valid opinion? (Your "feel" doesn't count...)

 

None of the keyboard jockeys here (me included) "know" how good any driver would be in a different car, up against a different team-mate, until it actually happens.

 

I don't mean to be offensive, but I'll be brutally honest,  - your statements are arrogant, dismissive, logically flawed, and consequently, quite feeble.

 

Based on what you've said to date, can we define Vettel as a driver who requires a car engineered with a unique set of qualities, specific to his particular driving style and without such a vehicle, he's pretty ordinary?

 

Personally, I think he's better than that, but without any substantiating evidence (and there's been none so far this year) I don't think anyone can mount a case for him being any better than Dan though.  After all (as I've already mentioned) on the two occasions Dan stepped into Seb's "special" EBD car, Dan was actually quicker.

 

So, - just to summarise:

 

In an EBD-equipped Red Bull specifically engineered to Seb's driving preferences and idiosyncrasies,  - Dan was faster.

In a non-EBD equipped Red Bull (undoubtedly also designed with Seb's specific preferences in mind), - Dan is faster.

 

Hmmm, - what was your argument again?



#2565 tghik

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 15:48

Wow!  Well done! 

 

Tell us, - how would you know how good or otherwise Ricciardo is compared with other drivers with whom he has never been partnered?  What objective measures and logical determinants have you used to formulate a valid opinion? (Your "feel" doesn't count...)

 

None of the keyboard jockeys here (me included) "know" how good any driver would be in a different car, up against a different team-mate, until it actually happens.

 

I don't mean to be offensive, but I'll be brutally honest,  - your statements are arrogant, dismissive, logically flawed, and consequently, quite feeble.

 

Based on what you've said to date, can we define Vettel as a driver who requires a car engineered with a unique set of qualities, specific to his particular driving style and without such a vehicle, he's pretty ordinary?

 

Personally, I think he's better than that, but without any substantiating evidence (and there's been none so far this year) I don't think anyone can mount a case for him being any better than Dan though.  After all (as I've already mentioned) on the two occasions Dan stepped into Seb's "special" EBD car, Dan was actually quicker.

 

So, - just to summarise:

 

In an EBD-equipped Red Bull specifically engineered to Seb's driving preferences and idiosyncrasies,  - Dan was faster.

In a non-EBD equipped Red Bull (undoubtedly also designed with Seb's specific preferences in mind), - Dan is faster.

 

Hmmm, - what was your argument again?

Your argument was repeated many times by few of us many times already, but Vettel fans simply ignore it. Give it 1-2 days and we will hear again the same magical "Vettel would be the best in a car that wins the championship" statement. Then if someone else brings strong arguments again that it doesn't hold up, this again will be swept under the carpet. The only thing and the strongest declaration Vettel's fans bring is "he has too much talent soon we'll see him back".

The procedure is on the eternal loop, bring "facts" ignoring the context, like for example, Hamilton is only few points ahead of Ricciardo, but somehow the fact that Lewis is 5-1 with Rosberg  in the issues department and especially when those happen he doesn't lose few places, but usually is relegated to the back of the pack. Now on the other hand Vettel is struggling to Danny coz of issues outside of his control, and even if few happened Vettel is not losing the same amount of points Lewis is. So issues exist for Vettel, but for Hamilton are not there. Double standard in play as usual. Why Vettel's fanboys bring the Hamilton argument ? Coz he is a driver people were comparing as the fastest driver, so what do you do ? you bring down Hamilton. And why say Ricciardo is so close to Hamilton in points ? Again very simple, to elevate Danny to a position of the extremely good driver, so for Vettel losing to a great driver is not a bad thing. The procedure is repeated and repeated, always bringing facts without context and forgetting that the car is the most important factor in F1.


Edited by tghik, 31 August 2014 - 15:59.


#2566 renton

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 16:22

Wow!  Well done! 

 

Tell us, - how would you know how good or otherwise Ricciardo is compared with other drivers with whom he has never been partnered?  What objective measures and logical determinants have you used to formulate a valid opinion? (Your "feel" doesn't count...)

 

None of the keyboard jockeys here (me included) "know" how good any driver would be in a different car, up against a different team-mate, until it actually happens.

 

I don't mean to be offensive, but I'll be brutally honest,  - your statements are arrogant, dismissive, logically flawed, and consequently, quite feeble.

 

Based on what you've said to date, can we define Vettel as a driver who requires a car engineered with a unique set of qualities, specific to his particular driving style and without such a vehicle, he's pretty ordinary?

 

Personally, I think he's better than that, but without any substantiating evidence (and there's been none so far this year) I don't think anyone can mount a case for him being any better than Dan though.  After all (as I've already mentioned) on the two occasions Dan stepped into Seb's "special" EBD car, Dan was actually quicker.

 

So, - just to summarise:

 

In an EBD-equipped Red Bull specifically engineered to Seb's driving preferences and idiosyncrasies,  - Dan was faster.

In a non-EBD equipped Red Bull (undoubtedly also designed with Seb's specific preferences in mind), - Dan is faster.

 

Hmmm, - what was your argument again?

 

Do we actually consider FPs as authentic occasions for comparing two drivers?


Edited by renton, 31 August 2014 - 16:58.


#2567 renton

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 16:45

Your argument was repeated many times by few of us many times already, but Vettel fans simply ignore it. Give it 1-2 days and we will hear again the same magical "Vettel would be the best in a car that wins the championship" statement. Then if someone else brings strong arguments again that it doesn't hold up, this again will be swept under the carpet. The only thing and the strongest declaration Vettel's fans bring is "he has too much talent soon we'll see him back".

The procedure is on the eternal loop, bring "facts" ignoring the context, like for example, Hamilton is only few points ahead of Ricciardo, but somehow the fact that Lewis is 5-1 with Rosberg  in the issues department and especially when those happen he doesn't lose few places, but usually is relegated to the back of the pack. Now on the other hand Vettel is struggling to Danny coz of issues outside of his control, and even if few happened Vettel is not losing the same amount of points Lewis is. So issues exist for Vettel, but for Hamilton are not there. Double standard in play as usual. Why Vettel's fanboys bring the Hamilton argument ? Coz he is a driver people were comparing as the fastest driver, so what do you do ? you bring down Hamilton. And why say Ricciardo is so close to Hamilton in points ? Again very simple, to elevate Danny to a position of the extremely good driver, so for Vettel losing to a great driver is not a bad thing. The procedure is repeated and repeated, always bringing facts without context and forgetting that the car is the most important factor in F1.

 

Gee... Why would a Vettel fan elevate Danny to a level of a great driver? How would losing out to great driver make Vettel look any better? A fanatic would down play Dan's role in his wins or label them as flukes and overexegerate the impact of Vettel's issues. A moderate fan would acknowledge that  his general performance is sometimes less than enough, regardless of his issues. If you're a fan of somebody, probably, you think he's the best. Ehm, probably, fan of top drivers think their favorite is the best one. If so,it sucks when that particular driver is being beaten, beaten by anybody.


Edited by renton, 31 August 2014 - 17:24.


#2568 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:12

@ Redback

 

 

 

Wow!  Well done! 

 

Tell us, - how would you know how good or otherwise Ricciardo is compared with other drivers with whom he has never been partnered?  What objective measures and logical determinants have you used to formulate a valid opinion? (Your "feel" doesn't count...)

 

Ricciardo just wasn't that impressive in order to say that he is special. Kvyat now is not less impressive against Vergne than Ricciardo was back in 2012 (when both entered F1 more or less simultaneously), although Kvyat is having two years less experience than Vergne.

 

None of the keyboard jockeys here (me included) "know" how good any driver would be in a different car, up against a different team-mate, until it actually happens.[/quote]

 

Neither do I. I only give opinions. And when others give opinions (driver X will be better than driver Y), it also "sounds" like they pretend to "know", btw.
 

 

Furthermore, I always try to give examples (results, circumstances, quotes) to explain or underline why I think the way I think.

 

E.g., by giving examples, I have been constantly saying (from 2010 until now) that Alonso/Hamilton were most of the time the kings and not Vettel (despite his title collection). By looking at the bare-naked figures, it seemed like Alonso/Hamilton are nothing compared to Vettel, but to me they were / are always the two best drivers (if Rosberg stays where he is in the standings, he will belong to that elite group). And, all of a sudden, not few people are re-thinking their opinions whether Vettel is really that earth-shatteringly great compared to Alonso/Hamilton. Back then (I haven't been here, yet, but in another forum (where I additionally still am)), it was difficult to prove it, so I had to wait until it unfolded.

 

And now, I fear, we have to wait again who's right and who's not. There you are, it sounds arrogant again. It isn't meant to be arrogant, though.

 

 

 

 

I don't mean to be offensive, but I'll be brutally honest,  - your statements are arrogant, dismissive, logically flawed, and consequently, quite feeble.[/quote]

 

No, it's OK. Nevermind.

 

I mean, I sometimes mention it myself that it may sound arrogant from time to time. I don't mean to be sounding arrogant, though.

 

 

 

Based on what you've said to date, can we define Vettel as a driver who requires a car engineered with a unique set of qualities, specific to his particular driving style and without such a vehicle, he's pretty ordinary?[/quote]

 

Yes, something like that. Or let's say not THAT extraordinary anymore compared to the teammate than in super great cars. What's so astonishing and not believable with that? I gave tons of examples with Webber, as well.

 

You know, Vettel is like Hakkinen. Doesn't belong to that ├╝ber-group of drivers, either.

 

When in great super cars like in 1998, 1999, 2000 (accidentally Newey cars, too), he destroyed Coulthard (who is more or less = Webber...). Him having not great super cars anymore (2001, 1997, 1996) and that very same caliber of teammate is more seasons infront of him (1997, 2001) than vice versa (1996).

 

Difference is that Hakkinen had to wait maaany years to get those dream cars and Vettel got them right after 1.5-2 years after entering F1.

 

By the way, this is an example (regarding Hakkinen) that I'm not one of those fans who has to artificially overhype a driver (Hakkinen) in order to enhance the "value" of his favourite driver (hardcore Senna fan).

 

I just try to be objective in every possible way.

 

 

Personally, I think he's better than that, but without any substantiating evidence (and there's been none so far this year) I don't think anyone can mount a case for him being any better than Dan though.  After all (as I've already mentioned) on the two occasions Dan stepped into Seb's "special" EBD car, Dan was actually quicker.[/quote]

 

So, - just to summarise:

 

In an EBD-equipped Red Bull specifically engineered to Seb's driving preferences and idiosyncrasies,  - Dan was faster.

In a non-EBD equipped Red Bull (undoubtedly also designed with Seb's specific preferences in mind), - Dan is faster.

 

Hmmm, - what was your argument again?

 

Oh Lord... nice attempt. It maybe sounds arrogant once again, but please try to prepare yourself better.

 

He was more than a second faster (1:38,102) than Vettel was in the AbuDhabi qualifying (1:39,394), correct.

 

But:

 

The track conditions must have been much better, though (as the lap times of the other inexperienced test drivers underlined that fact).

 

Why?

 

Freaking d'Ambrosio who achieved the second best time (1:38,802) of those tests was only 7 tenths of a second behind Ricciardo although sitting in a stinker like the Renault 'effing' R30. In qualifying, Kubica and Petrov were both in the low 1:40s (KUB: 1:40,780 (Q2) and PET: 1:40,901 (Q3))

 

Lord, even S.Bird (1:39,220) who achieved the third-best time of those closing two-days lasting YoungDrivers'Test (November 16th and 17th 2010) with Bridgestone tyres was 1.3 seconds faster than MSC and ROS were in qualifying (1:40,516 and 1:40,589)

 

[Please trust me, the numbers are correct, btw.]

 

Well, do you really think that d'Ambrosio or Bird were geniusses as well like Ricciardo? I don't have any insight or any telemetry either, but I dare to say that d'Ambrosio (Bird) was not a genius compared to Kubica (Rosberg). Kubica wasn't / isn't a genius either but d'Ambrosio is even a lesser genius than Kubica. And Rosberg is probably on a completely other (i.e. much better) level than Bird, as well. Call me arrogant or whatever for those opinions, although having no telemetry but only my "feeling'...

 

And now, come again with "Ricciardo was "faster" than Vettel"...

 

[Those tests were the last with Bridgestone tyres. The following tests a few days later (where the "proper" drivers took over and tested), the tyres were from Pirelli.]

 

Btw, I don't say that Ricciardo wouldn't be infront of Vettel, if both had a car where Vettel would be in his comfort-zone again, but so was Webber from time to time even when both had a RB6 or RB7 at their disposal...

 

@ tghik

 

 

Your argument was repeated many times by few of us many times already, but Vettel fans simply ignore it. Give it 1-2 days and we will hear again the same magical "Vettel would be the best in a car that wins the championship" statement. Then if someone else brings strong arguments again that it doesn't hold up, this again will be swept under the carpet. The only thing and the strongest declaration Vettel's fans bring is "he has too much talent soon we'll see him back".

 

Eww, I'm not a Vettel fan. There must've been a misunderstandig thingy.

 

[Sorry for the editorial mess.]


Edited by MetallurgicalHedonist, 31 August 2014 - 22:24.


#2569 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:31

this is a funny thread



#2570 Mauseri

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 22:52

:lol:

 

You haven't been watching this year?

I think the point was maybe that although driver A is being beaten by driver B, driver B would be beaten in A's comfort zone, thus driver A is better. At the end of the day it is allowed to have an opinion that driver A is better than B, although most will disagree and show the present results.


Edited by Mauseri, 31 August 2014 - 22:53.


#2571 Thomas99

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Posted Yesterday, 00:57

This page

 



#2572 Ev0d3vil

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Posted Yesterday, 01:34

People also forgot that Massa beat Vettel 14-3 in 1983.

 

Short memories.

 

Was Vettel even born in 1983? :p



#2573 slideways

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Posted Yesterday, 01:52

You can't tell us something would happen "for sure". You don't know.

Not to mention, no one in this thread rally cares about whether Alonso or Hamilton would beat Vettel in an ebd RBR.

I need time for the concept that BrawnGP was merely a temporary r&d test bed for S Vettel to sink in.

#2574 Thomas99

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Posted Yesterday, 02:02


I need time for the concept that BrawnGP was merely a temporary r&d test bed for S Vettel to sink in.

what?



#2575 Redback

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Posted Yesterday, 05:26

Do we actually consider FPs as authentic occasions for comparing two drivers?

 

No, - but in the spirit of ridiculousness currently pervading this topic, I wanted to make a contribution.   :drunk:

 

Actually, - it was (mostly) tongue-in-cheek, but that aspect seems to have gone through to the keeper...   ;)



#2576 Thomas99

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Posted Yesterday, 05:35

No, - but in the spirit of ridiculousness currently pervading this topic, I wanted to make a contribution.   :drunk:

 

Actually, - it was (mostly) tongue-in-cheek, but that aspect seems to have gone through to the keeper...   ;)

 

People in this thread seem more interesting in ignoring actual performances and coming up with any justification they can that performance would be different in any different situation. 


Edited by Thomas99, Yesterday, 05:36.


#2577 Ricciardo2014

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Posted Yesterday, 07:53

Just watched the race again, and noticed something I missed.

Daniel with the champagne turning around to Valterri and Nico and giving them a "cheers" was fantastic.

Clinking glasses or bottles is a bit of an Aussie tradition among competitors after a contest, and I really enjoyed that.



#2578 renton

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Posted Yesterday, 13:57

Just watched the race again, and noticed something I missed.

Daniel with the champagne turning around to Valterri and Nico and giving them a "cheers" was fantastic.

Clinking glasses or bottles is a bit of an Aussie tradition among competitors after a contest, and I really enjoyed that.

 

Wow, then Australia is bigger than I thought.



#2579 Ricciardo2014

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Posted Yesterday, 20:38

Wow, then Australia is bigger than I thought.


Haha point taken, I could have worded that better.

It's more he appears to say "cheers" that caught my eye.
Dunno how universal that is, but its used in Aus to congratulate/ thank a competitor ;)

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#2580 stillwater

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Posted Today, 01:24

Haha point taken, I could have worded that better.

It's more he appears to say "cheers" that caught my eye.
Dunno how universal that is, but its used in Aus to congratulate/ thank a competitor ;)

 

 

 

Its used in many places around the world mate :)

 

Like many things in Oz, we inherited it from GB however it dates back to antiquity


Edited by stillwater, Today, 01:25.


#2581 Brother Fox

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Posted Today, 02:54

Now if he'd turned around and said "hahah, get that up ya!" THAT would be aussie

#2582 lbennie

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Posted Today, 03:32

Ricciardo awarded prestigeous Trofeo Bandini trophy

 

 

 

 

I love how every journo is like "so when are you going to ferrari?"  :lol:


Edited by lbennie, Today, 03:50.


#2583 lbennie

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Posted Today, 05:10

 

Ricciardo just wasn't that impressive in order to say that he is special.

 

 

He was just as impressive as kimi was in a sauber/fernando in a minardi imo.

 

We get it, you are still hurt Red Bull chose Dan over Kimi, you were saying the same thing over and over last year when the media was speculating who would get the red bull seat.