106 replies to this topic

[Wiggy]

So confirmed today (amongst others) is the rule where parc ferme will now be applied from the end of fp3 rather than qualifying

Even less scope to make changes to the cars...

I think they should have gone the other way and let changes be made on Sunday morning... At least give those with a poor setup the chance to change it for the race...

[midgrid]

So the news reports have so far concentrated on the confirmation of the standing restarts, but I think this is an important change that warrants a thread of its own.

 

 

Car specification at an Event

The current restrictions to the parc fermé will now apply from the start of P3 instead of the start of qualifying.

http://www.fia.com/n...cil-2014-munich

 

I'm completely baffled by this.  At least I can understand the reasoning behind the standing restarts, but what's the point in having a practice session under such conditions?  Surely this will just result in significantly reduced running?  It's not as if the teams will save any money from this, as it's not saving time at the start of the event like the rejected changes to the Friday sessions would have done, and will only result in the fans seeing less on-track action.  Am I missing something here? 

 

Edit: thanks for the merge!

Edited by midgrid, 26 June 2014 - 20:42.

[xflow7]

It's worse than that!  It's from the *start* of P3

 

From http://adamcooperf1.com/

 

The current restrictions to the parc fermé will now apply from the start of P3 instead of the start of qualifying.

[Wiggy]

What sense does that make?! What's the point in the session now if you can't change things on the car... Baffling

[charly0418]

yep, the moment FP3 starts you cant change the setup anymore and the car goes straight to parc ferme. And yeah, FP3 is now pointless, I'm guessing drivers will go around like 5 laps to make sure everything is ok and the setup is what they expect it to be and just call it for the rest of the practice.

[Fastcake]

Yeah I'm really not understanding this rule change. Why would you stop set-up changes in FP3?

[SenorSjon]

Remember, Parc Fermé was the start of this mess called F1, they now prolong it. So hurray for the simulator again. 1 lap on Friday to see if the bolts are correctly fitted and then quickly back into the pit. Rain races will be forbidden no.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

The daft thing really now is you have a not great setup on the Friday, so do you keep the setup and hope it comes to you in quali and the race, or do you make changes knowing that once FP3 starts, you're screwed if you've gone and made things worse? It'll lead to little more than FP3 becoming a session with 1 installation lap to make sure the systems are working, and everyone being in the pits for the remaining 55mins or so, especially with only 4 PU allowed in 2015.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 26 June 2014 - 19:36.

[pingu666]

dont get the point of this :/

[SenorSjon]

It is to prevent new teams like Haas to gain any information whatsoever and condemn him to the back of the grid untill he has burned $500m.

[TomNokoe]

I don't get it either. What's the point? There is no point. FP3 is usually the busiest practice session of a weekend and is a great prelude to qualifying. Now it is just a desolate piece of empty track time for them to pound around learning nothing on. Hooray for rained out Fridays!!! Artificially mixed up grids:))))

Edited by TomNokoe, 26 June 2014 - 19:45.

[Kristian]

I thought the whole point of "Free Practice" is that teams are free to do what they want? The clue is in the name....

 

Stupid rule change. 

[TomNokoe]

Makes me sick

[midgrid]

I thought the whole point of "Free Practice" is that teams are free to do what they want? The clue is in the name....

 

Stupid rule change. 

 

You're mistaken - the "F" henceforth stands for "Fermé, parc". 

[Icetrala]

Well this basically means the strongest team of the season start will be the strongest whole season.. None of the teams have time to test new parts etc. in just two practices.

[Timstr11]

I think it's to prevent teams flying in last minute aero and other updates.

[Talryyn]

Hmmm, so TV viewers are down due to idiotic rule changes.  Let us make some more daft changes and watch the viewers stream back in....  I applaud those in power for screwing things up even more, well done.

[johnmhinds]

Just...why? They went 180 from maybe having FP2 at a later time so more people watch it, to almost completely killing off FP3...

 

None of the rule changes for 2015 make any sense...

 

4 power units as well? Really?

Edited by johnmhinds, 26 June 2014 - 20:19.

[Cyanide]

This sport is dead. Who makes these brainless decisions? It's like they come up with ideas, but there's zero reasoning behind them. 

[Dolph]

This sport is dead. Who makes these brainless decisions? It's like they come up with ideas, but there's zero reasoning behind them. 

 

No. Its more like you know nothing of the running of this sport, yet are under the illusion that you know how it should be run and that everything has to be spelled out to you. If its not, then everybody are clueless idiots.

 

Yet, F1 is making more money than ever.

[ardbeg]

 

 

Yet, F1 is making more money than ever.

So there are no crisis?

[Atreiu]

They should have just eliminated friday track activities and pushed FP3 to Sunday morning.

[FerrariV12]

 

 

No. Its more like you know nothing of the running of this sport, yet are under the illusion that you know how it should be run and that everything has to be spelled out to you. If its not, then everybody are clueless idiots.

 

 

Not sure what the singular "you" was in aid of since practically everyone else on this thread is against it.

 

 

Yet, F1 is making more money than ever.

 

 

So much money that we need yet-even-more Cost Cutting(© ® ™  Formula One Management 2003-2014)?

Edited by FerrariV12, 26 June 2014 - 21:05.

[Diablobb81]

 

 

Yet, F1 is making more money than ever.

 

Great that you remind me why i watch this sport.

[Farhannn15]

There's no point to FP3 anymore. I'm guessing teams may place a third driver in FP3 rather than FP1 if they feel they are safe enough a driver who won't bin the car, or they'll do about 5 laps because the majority of the financially struggling teams wouldn't see the point of wasting valuable money by driving around a circuit which leads to no benefit for the race 

Edited by Farhannn15, 26 June 2014 - 21:07.

[Cyanide]

No. Its more like you know nothing of the running of this sport, yet are under the illusion that you know how it should be run and that everything has to be spelled out to you. If its not, then everybody are clueless idiots.

 

Yet, F1 is making more money than ever.

 

So just crap on the fans and introduce ridiculous rules like this that probably limit track activity. I guess that makes ****-all sense to people who buy weekend tickets for FPs as well. 

 

You are completely lost at sea. Get a paddle boat before you sink. 

[Elba]

Hmmm, so TV viewers are down due to idiotic rule changes.  Let us make some more daft changes and watch the viewers stream back in....  I applaud those in power for screwing things up even more, well done.

I doubt this Parc Fermee change will have any impact on the TV viewers. No average fan -unless at the track- watches FP3 anyway. 

It's no big deal just like the standing re-starts

[Jon83]

Another day, another ridiculous decision in the world of F1. 

 

Really hate what is going on in the sport at the moment. 

[icecream]

don't understand.

[Seanspeed]

I think it's to prevent teams flying in last minute aero and other updates.

Was that really hurting anything?

[rhukkas]

Well this has sparked my interest again....

 

 

... not

[Gyan]

Another negative about this other than what's already been suggested, is that teams will be much more wary about running young drivers in practice sessions on Friday, stifling their already few chances of development as well.

 

Its a ridiculous decision. The whole point of practice is in the name itself - free practice, what's the point of it if you restrict car setup changes in the session. Its not a competitive session, its all simple logic but they just don't seem to get it, do they.

[Tosh]

So it's a FREE practice but you are not allowed to do changes on the car. What the actual schmuck is happening ?

[muramasa]

Why? That's very easy to know.

 

Because they want more uncertainty factors.

 

Standing start, parc ferme, as well as fragile tyres, DRS, double points and so on, all those are to increase the number of uncertainties. They intend to increase the show/entertainment/gamble aspect by bringing more chaos and disorder rather than sincerely working on technical and improving the quality of racing.

[Exb]

The argument for this rule (from an ex-mechanic) https://twitter.com/...243078049509376

Whilst I can see his point about it being better for the mechanics I now don't see the point in running the session (and imagine most teams won't bother apart from a couple of laps to save engine mileage for the even tighter engine restrictions ) - why not bring in parc Ferme from the end of Q3 so at least there is a chance to make the session useful?

[FerrariV12]

The argument for this rule (from an ex-mechanic) https://twitter.com/...243078049509376

Whilst I can see his point about it being better for the mechanics I now don't see the point in running the session (and imagine most teams won't bother apart from a couple of laps to save engine mileage for the even tighter engine restrictions ) - why not bring in parc Ferme from the end of Q3 so at least there is a chance to make the session useful?

 

Marc Priestley ‏@f1elvis  8m

@Meat_Bucket It was sarcastic! Ridiculous rule, but at least gives the mechanics less work.

[Exb]

Marc Priestley ‏@f1elvis  8m
@Meat_Bucket It was sarcastic! Ridiculous rule, but at least gives the mechanics less work.

 

 

 oops, missed that he wasn't being serious.

 

I was just trying to find any reason as to why they have bought this in (and the mechanics welfare kind of makes sense as IIRC they are extending the curfew for next year as well).
 

Edited by Exb, 26 June 2014 - 21:54.

[Skinnyguy]

They should know by now the point of practice sessions is to do work to prepare for qualifying and the race. If you can´t do the work you need, the session is pointless.

[mahelgel]

So.. FP3 is now basicly an installation lap? nice...

[superden]

Make practice sessions useless.

Wait until teams claim practice sessions are pointless.

Wait for fans to say practice sessions are pointless.

Ban practice and claim it is to enable cost saving and spice up the show.

Move on to the next random, pointless and competition destroying scheme.

[discover23]

I see the value of practice even if you cannot make changes . Teams would be collecting data for the race in P3. Not making any changes would actually allow teams to make real simulations and predict how the car would run for the race.

Edited by discover23, 26 June 2014 - 22:22.

[Tapz63]

I'm quite disappointed to hear this. Doesn't seem to be much point to it but I suppose the teams agreed to it so what can you say really?

[RubalSher]

In theory, this doesn't make any sense to me either. But I will bite and guess what may have prompted this.

 

Currently, the teams do low fuel runs in FP1 and the early part of FP2 followed by long runs in the latter part of FP2 and switch back to low fuel runs in FP3. This gives all the teams a perfect window to set up the car optimally for qualy and the race. No wonder, most of the races end up with cars lined up on the grid in finishing order.

 

I have long been saying that lining the cars in order of pace in this era of bullet proof reliability and forgiving tracks will kill the sport. The last race in Austria is a good example of cars going round in circles maintaining positions from start to end barring pit stop poker.

 

Enforcing this rule makes short fuel runs in FP3 useless. Teams risk losing an hour of practice time out of a total of 4 hours that get allotted for practice. To fix this, I wont be surprised if this forces the teams to postpone their long fuel runs to FP3 now as long fuel runs would still make sense for FP3. In turn, the teams will be forced to run only on low fuel all of Friday to get the setup right.

 

This will force an uncertainty in that the cars may still line up on the grid in order of qualy pace but the race pace could be a huge variable given that teams may not have done the long fuel runs on Friday.

 

This in a nutshell is my guess and of course it is only to spice up the show. I can see the purists not liking it but the majority of those paying huge sums of money to sit in the grandstands are likely to be more entertained come Sunday.

[xflow7]

It's cynical, but Will Buxton's theory on the logic of starting parc ferme at the start of FP3 actually makes as much sense as anything:

 

- Teams proposed reducing running during the weekend as a cost savings measure.

- Circuit promoters wouldn't go for dropping FP1 or FP2 due to fears of losing gate revenue.

- FIA makes FP3 de facto useless for improving car setup during the weekend removing any incentive for teams to run.

- ?

- Profit!

 

Okay, so that last bit was my own tip of the hat to the Underpants Gnomes'  WMSC's governance wisdom.

Edited by xflow7, 26 June 2014 - 22:28.

[ardbeg]

I see the value of practice even if you cannot make changes . Teams would be collecting data for the race in P3. Not making any changes would actually allow teams to make real simulations and predict how the car would run for the race.

Yes. I prefer to see it from the bright side - after FP3 I will pretty much know how both the qualifying and the race will be and I can do something else on Sunday.

 

Actually, if they'd skip FP1-4 completely, and the qualification, I think they will save more money. Just roll them out on the starting grid in the order they finished the last race. Then they can roll them in again. That way Bernie does not have to invest in streaming either, just a couple of pictures will do.

[chumma]

This is actually stupid and I can see them having to alter the reg if Friday practice sessions are both wet and Saturday is dry/Sunday is dry. But that just makes me think if it is the case, no one will even run on Friday in the wet cos it is actually pointless. What a stupid regulation. 

[pingu666]

actually the top level motorsport with biggest varience in grid lineup > race result is nascar.

 

ok some races are impound, but they do run a very different setup for qualy, and have qually parts/procedures

[Watkins74]

Why? That's very easy to know.

 

Because they want more uncertainty factors.

 

Standing start, parc ferme, as well as fragile tyres, DRS, double points and so on, all those are to increase the number of uncertainties. They intend to increase the show/entertainment/gamble aspect by bringing more chaos and disorder rather than sincerely working on technical and improving the quality of racing.

 

Winner, Winner Chicken Dinner. You nailed it. 

[Myrvold]

And less chance for Test Drivers/Young Drivers to do a FP1 now, when you suddenly just have 2 sessions to make a setup...

[black magic]

any reason to actually bother turning up to a gp near you??

 

still need an explanation ofr the pain in your backside??