9 replies to this topic

[Wes350]

Continuing my thoughts from here…

 

http://forums.autosp...in-the-drivers/

 

My first year wisdom, exclusively on the Autosport forums:

 

PART 2

 

TopDrivers

 

Hamilton: Hit with reliability issues his teammate has dodged so far, his bid for WDC seems to be slipping away. He could still turn it around, but he needs Rosberg to hit a DNF or two just to be sure.

 

Alonso: He has been given a lemon, but he is driving it. Why he stayed with Ferrari so long, I have no idea. But the more I see him race and research past F1 seasons, the easier I’m finding it to drink the Alonso kool-aid…

 

Räikkönen, and  Vettel: Both guys are having a bad year, hey, it happens… one guy is unable to get a hold of a dog of a car, the other is checking to see if his last name still starts with a V and not a W. They both have showed their stuff in the past so I’m not ready to throw them under the bus yet for having a bad run. And if Ricciardo wasn’t having such a good show a lot of Vettels problems would be seen as just bad luck.

 

Stepping Up

 

Rosberg: The solid dependable teammate smells a WDC within his grasp and he does not want to let it go. What he may lack in raw talent to Hamilton he seems to be willing to make up the difference with a bit of ruthlessness. If he can avoid his turn of mechanical DNFs, his race craft may see him through to the title.

 

Ricciardo: He’s seeing a lot of podiums this year considering the Mercs 1-2 dominance. He’s putting the heat on his team mate, and justifying his seat at the top. Prognosis: talented; future bright. The next few seasons will tell the full tale in a post-newey era…

 

Established Talent

 

Button, and Massa: Doing their thing, no changes, nothing to see here. Moving along...

 

The most interesting of the rest

 

Bottas: Pooodiummmm! If Williams can keep it going maybe we can see a few more. He is also doing well against Massa. If he keeps it up he can make a bit of a name for himself. While we shall restrain ourselves from proclaiming him the second coming of Fangio, if he can snag another podium or two it will speak well for his future.

 

Hulkenberg:  Still very consistent, but he needs a podium to justify the love he gets. Many would like to see him in a top team, well, this year aside from Red Bull and Mercedes, he is in a “top” team! He needs to find his inner Perez and take a few calculated risks if he is going to make himself standout.

 

Perez: He is what he is. Sometimes hot, and sometimes not.

 

Grosjean: Driving the 2014 E22 Lotus-Renault, what more needs to be said…

 

Magnussen: Kind of getting lost in the shuffle so far, and not exactly making Button feel the heat. IMHO he needs to step it up to justify the pre season talk.

 

Kvyat:  He’ll be around next year for sure if he keeps doing what he’s doing. His team mate, probably not so much.

 

Caterham, Marussia and Sauber drivers: errrmm, I’ve got nothing…

Edited by Wes350, 28 June 2014 - 23:41.

[Thomas99]

Its quite foolish to consider Räikkönen a top driver. He better fits in the established talent category. One thing I keep asking when did this mythical Kimi performances everyone keeps talking about occur? What back in 2005? Why is Jenson Button and Massa only 'established talents' two drivers that are driving well relative to their team mate, yet year after year despite poor performances Kimi maintains this 'top level driver' myth.

[Wes350]

In my opinion Kimi has put on more consistent and credible WDC challenges (finishing 2nd or 3rd) than Button or Massa. More relatively recently, and at least a few places ahead of Massa and Button in WDC standings.

 

Could he be fading and firmly on his way to being just an established talent? Sure. Could he be continually floating in between? Why not?

 

My placements are not concrete classifications. But like I said, I'm less hasty to throw drivers under the bus for having a bad run than many on these forums...

 

But one thing I have learned is that although I'm just starting to follow F1; many longtime fans don't really know anything more about these drivers or teams than I do.

 

We all have our opinions and they are all worth what you pay for them...

Edited by Wes350, 29 June 2014 - 02:16.

[Thomas99]

In my opinion Kimi has put on more consistent and credible WDC challenges (finishing 2nd or 3rd) than Button or Massa. More relatively recently, and at least a few places ahead of Massa and Button in WDC standings.

 

Could he be fading and firmly on his way to being just an established talent? Sure. Could he be continually floating in between? Why not?

 

My placements are not concrete classifications. 

 

But one thing I have learned is that although I'm just starting to follow F1, is that many longtime fans don't really know anything more about these drivers or teams than I do.

 

We all have our opinions and they are all worth what you pay for them...

 

I'm sure he is a decent driver and consistent, but the tier 1 drivers are the true current greats of the sport. You can't just hand out 'tier 1' drivers. The drivers in that catagory should display dominance over their team mates and be adaptable to all conditions.

 

Kimi showed he was roughly on par to Massa, better than Grosjean and far worse than Alonso. Not exactly a 'sparkling' record.

 

I wouldn't even be confident Kimi could beat Bottas in the same car.

Edited by Thomas99, 29 June 2014 - 02:20.

[Wes350]

I'm sure he is a decent driver and consistent, but the tier 1 drivers are the true current greats of the sport. You can't just hand out 'tier 1' drivers. The drivers in that catagory should display dominance over their team mates and be adaptable to all conditions.

 

This is a silly internet forum, as long as I am civil I can do what I want.

 

I rate what I consider a current (or recent) top driver according to my own judgement, and past rankings in the WDC hunt from previous seasons.

 

It is my own rating, and has nothing to do with putting people in "tiers".

 

 Do I think some of my "top driver" picks are better than their peers? Sure.

 

I see people use this "tier" system that seems to be a common nomenclature on this forum. I think it's a bit goofy. And I refuse to use it.

Edited by Wes350, 29 June 2014 - 02:31.

[HP]

Kimi was a top driver. Right now he's not delivering. The thing with him is that he went to the wrong team. Otherwise in 2003, even as MS teammate he'd become WDC too. His performances were really great. For example Relegated 10 places because of an engine change, but in the end still winning the race. Great stuff.

 

Unfortunately, even for Kimi, time doesn't stand still and his greatest days were almost a decade ago. But saying that, it also means Kimi lasted long enough in F1 on performance alone. And before we write him completely off, remember his first stint at Ferrari. And he exactly knows what he needs from the Ferrari. If the team can deliver more front end grip, he'll look much better.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I'm sure he is a decent driver and consistent, but the tier 1 drivers are the true current greats of the sport. You can't just hand out 'tier 1' drivers. The drivers in that catagory should display dominance over their team mates and be adaptable to all conditions.

 

Kimi showed he was roughly on par to Massa, better than Grosjean and far worse than Alonso. Not exactly a 'sparkling' record.

 

I wouldn't even be confident Kimi could beat Bottas in the same car.

 Bottas is just an average driver who's been quite lucky so far, of course Kimi would beat him.

[Nemo1965]

Continuing my thoughts from here…

 

http://forums.autosp...in-the-drivers/

 

My first year wisdom, exclusively on the Autosport forums:

 

PART 2

 

TopDrivers

 

Hamilton: Hit with reliability issues his teammate has dodged so far, his bid for WDC seems to be slipping away. He could still turn it around, but he needs Rosberg to hit a DNF or two just to be sure.

 

Alonso: He has been given a lemon, but he is driving it. Why he stayed with Ferrari so long, I have no idea. But the more I see him race and research past F1 seasons, the easier I’m finding it to drink the Alonso kool-aid…

 

Räikkönen, and  Vettel: Both guys are having a bad year, hey, it happens… one guy is unable to get a hold of a dog of a car, the other is checking to see if his last name still starts with a V and not a W. They both have showed their stuff in the past so I’m not ready to throw them under the bus yet for having a bad run. And if Ricciardo wasn’t having such a good show a lot of Vettels problems would be seen as just bad luck.

 

Stepping Up

 

Rosberg: The solid dependable teammate smells a WDC within his grasp and he does not want to let it go. What he may lack in raw talent to Hamilton he seems to be willing to make up the difference with a bit of ruthlessness. If he can avoid his turn of mechanical DNFs, his race craft may see him through to the title.

 

Ricciardo: He’s seeing a lot of podiums this year considering the Mercs 1-2 dominance. He’s putting the heat on his team mate, and justifying his seat at the top. Prognosis: talented; future bright. The next few seasons will tell the full tale in a post-newey era…

 

Established Talent

 

Button, and Massa: Doing their thing, no changes, nothing to see here. Moving along...

 

The most interesting of the rest

 

Bottas: Pooodiummmm! If Williams can keep it going maybe we can see a few more. He is also doing well against Massa. If he keeps it up he can make a bit of a name for himself. While we shall restrain ourselves from proclaiming him the second coming of Fangio, if he can snag another podium or two it will speak well for his future.

 

Hulkenberg:  Still very consistent, but he needs a podium to justify the love he gets. Many would like to see him in a top team, well, this year aside from Red Bull and Mercedes, he is in a “top” team! He needs to find his inner Perez and take a few calculated risks if he is going to make himself standout.

 

Perez: He is what he is. Sometimes hot, and sometimes not.

 

Grosjean: Driving the 2014 E22 Lotus-Renault, what more needs to be said…

 

Magnussen: Kind of getting lost in the shuffle so far, and not exactly making Button feel the heat. IMHO he needs to step it up to justify the pre season talk.

 

Kvyat:  He’ll be around next year for sure if he keeps doing what he’s doing. His team mate, probably not so much.

 

Caterham, Marussia and Sauber drivers: errrmm, I’ve got nothing…

 

A nice post. Just some remarks.

 

Rosberg: The solid dependable teammate smells a WDC within his grasp and he does not want to let it go. What he may lack in raw talent to Hamilton he seems to be willing to make up the difference with a bit of ruthlessness. If he can avoid his turn of mechanical DNFs, his race craft may see him through to the title.

 

I am really beginning to doubt this, though it's been repeated over and over and I believed it as well. If one looks at every Grand Prix-qualifying, and one looks at the optimum times these two drivers drive... then usually Hamilton is between 0.045 and 0.100 faster than Rosberg. Two remarks: 1. Is one tenth of a second proof of more raw speed? Mmm. 2. Can't it be true that Hamilton gets that 1 tenth (and sometimes less) by being a little bit more risk-happy? Or, to flip the argument: could it not be that Rosberg is that 1th (or less slower), because he is less risk happy.

 

If you ask me to bet a good bottle of wine for Silverstone next week, and ask me: Rosberg or Hamilton, I would put it on Hamilton... but only if it was a good and not expensive bottle of wine... I am just not that sure about Hamiltons raw speed advantage over Rosberg.

 

Hulkenberg:  Still very consistent, but he needs a podium to justify the love he gets. Many would like to see him in a top team, well, this year aside from Red Bull and Mercedes, he is in a “top” team! He needs to find his inner Perez and take a few calculated risks if he is going to make himself standout.

 

Perez: He is what he is. Sometimes hot, and sometimes not.

 

For me Perez has stolen back quite some of his reputation by keeping up with the Hulk.

 

Grosjean: Driving the 2014 E22 Lotus-Renault, what more needs to be said…

 

True... but although making cross-references between teammates is often flawed, I can't help to think... Raikkonen was quite a deal better than Grosjean at Lotus, in my mind. I find the battle between Alonso and Raikkonen very painfull for the latter. If I think of Grosjean in the Ferrari... ouch, ouch, ouch. At this moment Grosjean is not driving a good car... but even if he was driving a good car... imagine Alonso next to him... ouch, ouch, ouch...

Edited by Nemo1965, 29 June 2014 - 11:27.

[Vinsin]

I'm sure he is a decent driver and consistent, but the tier 1 drivers are the true current greats of the sport. You can't just hand out 'tier 1' drivers. The drivers in that catagory should display dominance over their team mates and be adaptable to all conditions.

Kimi showed he was roughly on par to Massa, better than Grosjean and far worse than Alonso. Not exactly a 'sparkling' record.

I wouldn't even be confident Kimi could beat Bottas in the same car.

Kimi is a decent driver only?

2003- Silver (Mclaren)
2005- Silver (McLaren)

2007- Gold (Ferrari)
2008- Bronze (Ferrari)

2012- Bronze (Lotus)
2013- Bronze (Lotus) *when he retired injured

That's pretty well adapted if you aren't so new to F1. That's 3 Teams, over 10 years of regulation changes, driving under 3 different tyre suppliers.

Massa- Silver 2008. Umm... That's it for now. One cannot go on an anti spree against Kimi as far as an Athlete's career is concerned.

Edited by Vinsin, 29 June 2014 - 13:06.

[SophieB]

Hello Wes350,

These thoughts about how you think all the drivers are doing are interesting but better shared in the various team mate threads we already have. Alternatively, if you want to have discussions that are more directly about your personal views, I suggest you do as lots of other members here do and get a blog.