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Is Formula1 becoming Joke1?


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#1 akshay380

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:30

Whenever I see races from 80's and 90's I rarely hear a driver talking about improving the show, good for spectators etc. Its just about racing/cars/track characteristics etc. whereas nowadays you have almost every driver talking about it every weekend. Spectacle is important but its not the job of driver to worry.

 

I dont know about others but as a fan of racing it puts me off. I can also think of below reasons 

 

1. DRS instead of making Aero simpler.

2. Cheese Tires to improve 'show'. Going 'green' anyone?

3. Ban on track testing.

4. Limited Fuel.

5. Ban everything innovative.

6. Proposal to introduce sprinklers. WTF!

7. Parc Ferme applied to FP3.

8. Standing Restarts.

9. No in season engine development.

10. Abu Double.

 

I am still watching F1 but it just makes me sad.

EDIT: Added pt10. Thanks to Kingshark.


Edited by akshay380, 29 June 2014 - 04:57.


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#2 charly0418

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:00

C´mon man, we already have like 10 F1 doom threads



#3 CoolBreeze

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:45

F1 has become a joke since the test ban, etc..



#4 George Costanza

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 03:46

F1 has been a "joke" since V10?



#5 travbrad

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:11

4. Limited Fuel.

5. Ban everything innovative.

 

 

I agree with your post for the most part, but banning everything innovative is one of the few things to remain consistent throughout the years.   :p

 

Limited fuel isn't exactly a new thing either.  I remember in the late 80s when they had NA and turbo cars, the turbo cars had a different fuel restriction than the NA cars (both HAD restrictions though).

 

In fact in 1988 Mclaren had a 1.5L V6 Honda Turbo engine that was restricted to using less than 155 liters in the race (only about 10-15kg more than they allow in 2014).  In that year the car with the best engine also completely dominated the season.  Sounds pretty familiar huh?


Edited by travbrad, 29 June 2014 - 04:23.


#6 Kingshark

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 04:45

I will say that I enjoyed F1 the most in 2010, and things have gone a bit downhill since.

1. Engine sound - I don't care about this as much as others but the V6 does sound pathetic compared to the V10's.
2. Abu Double - completely artificial and unnecessary. 50 points for 1 race is ridiculous.
3. Ugly cars - Again, up until 2014 I've never complained about ugly cars but this is too much, esp the Caterham.
4. Standing restarts - Again not a big deal but still artificial.

F1 seems so desperate to improve the show that it's ridiculous; not every football match needs to be a thriller and similarly not every F1 race needs to be a classic either.

#7 Cyanide

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 05:29

No, these threads are becoming a joke. Also, not checking for similar topics before posting is laughable as well.

 

Please use the search function, there are at least 20 threads like this. 



#8 Tourgott

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 05:49

there are at least 20 threads like this. 

 

Worrying, isn't it?

But yeah, FIA is listening to the fans  :rolleyes:



#9 Gyno

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 07:31

It's compleatly useless to discuss things like this.

 

FIA doesn't care about their F1 Fans.

They dont care about what you think, or your ideas.

 

Petitions doesn't work, threads like this doesn't work.

 

Only thing that does work is to stop going to the races and dont watch them on the telly.

 

Start with silverstone, Protest outside the gates and maybe other fans will join you and not attend the gp.



#10 Force Ten

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:28

"Is Formula1 becoming Joke1?"

 

Yes it is. Please stop watching and commenting about it. All of us, including you, will feel much better then. Thank you.



#11 Risil

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:35

I can live with Joke1. It's when it becomes Joke4 that I'll be worried.


Edited by Risil, 29 June 2014 - 08:35.


#12 Tourgott

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 08:36

"Is Formula1 becoming Joke1?"

 

Yes it is. Please stop watching and commenting about it. All of us, including you, will feel much better then. Thank you.

 

Yeah, that's how all problems should be handled. Just look away.

 

Climate change? Poverty? Nuclear weapons? Ah, stop commenting about it. We feel much better then.



#13 Force Ten

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 09:16

Yeah, that's how all problems should be handled. Just look away.

 

Climate change? Poverty? Nuclear weapons? Ah, stop commenting about it. We feel much better then.

Good that you compare the current state of Formula One to Nuclear weapons. That helps set some things into perspective and none of those things are about Formula One OR Nuclear weapons.



#14 johnmhinds

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 09:59

Good that you compare the current state of Formula One to Nuclear weapons. That helps set some things into perspective and none of those things are about Formula One OR Nuclear weapons.

 

I'm not sure how your suggestion to stop watching and just hope things change is any better.



#15 BlackCat

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:01

Any kind of video coverage of F1 should be banned for few years. So the "fans" who need the "entertainment" part of racing could find a new hobby and F1 could sort itself up. Will not happen, of course.



#16 akshay380

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 10:09

"Is Formula1 becoming Joke1?"

Yes it is. Please stop watching and commenting about it. All of us, including you, will feel much better then. Thank you.

How about ignoring this thread if you are offended?

#17 superden

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 13:33

I think the sport still has a lot to offer, but these novelty regulation changes aren't going to maintain the hardcore fan interest over the long term. Eventually, if something changes constantly, it morphs into something you no longer recognise and you look elsewhere. As for the more casual fan, well novelties and Ken Block style rule changes (see WRC) might attract them and that's fine, but when that happens you need to drop the pretence of the 'event' being a sport and accept that is just entertainment and nothing more. F1 and WRC were a sport, and still are ... but with the ever increasing video game-esque regulations, the margins are decreasing. Its the same with every sport, fan attention spans are decreasing due to the internet age. Twatter and Farcebook just mean that everything has to be a vacuous soundbite and they want to do the same to motorsport. WRC will end up as a stadium only event at this rate and F1 is becoming more and more like Mario Kart (other racing games are available).



#18 zachary2142

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 13:52

I'd say this forum is becoming a joke.



#19 A310V6

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:11

It’s a joke that in the name of “safety” we have these pussy f1 cars, and now that interest in F1 is tumbling down, they are going to create potentially dangerous situations with the standing restarts after safety car in an effort to increase spectacle  :confused:



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#20 4MEN

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:26

Nothing new. It's called circus for a reason. Discussing is pointless. Not going to races is the answer. Money is the only universal language.



#21 redreni

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:35

I don't agree with all the items on the OP's list. Taking them in turn

 

1. DRS instead of making Aero simpler.

There's a tendency among a lot of armchair experts on the internet to say that there is an easy way to free up the aero rules, achieve closer racing by making the cars less dependent on clean air, and keep cornering speeds at down at a reasonably safe level given the limitations of the tracks. The actual experts appear to differ.

2. Cheese Tires to improve 'show'. Going 'green' anyone?

The tyres this year are fine.

3. Ban on track testing.

It's never been a total ban, but I agree the limitations were too severe last year, and having improved the situation a bit for this year, I can't understand why we're going in the other direction again for next year. But I don't think it's an issue that goes to the credibility of the sport or helps render it a "joke" formula. Most other championships have similar testing restrictions, or even if not, similarly low amounts of actual testing, because their competitors can't afford to test all the time the way F1 used to in the 90s and early 2000s.

4. Limited Fuel.

If you don't limit fuel and allow in-race refuelling the way F1 did until relatively recently, what tends to happen is the car that uses the most fuel, wins the race. Because although there's a penalty for using more fuel in the form of increased in-race refuelling time (since the refuelling flow rate is restricted), it's not a significant enough penalty. So it ends up as a race to put more and more downforce on the cars, and the ones with the most downforce and drag gain more in the corners than they lose on the straights, and burn more fuel because they're quite draggy and can get on the brakes later and the power earlier. So if you want your key performance differentiator to be aero, and if you want the regs to favour higher drag and downforce solutions, and if you want to give little incentive to make either engines or aero packages more efficient when you can just pump more and more fuel in, that's fine, but you'll be doing it without most of the manufacturers, because that's not their agenda. And you'll also risk creating boring, processional races of the kind we used to have under those rules, because the types of car you'll get are going to be heavily aero dependant. Personally I wish they would decrease the race fuel limit while keeping the instantaneous fuel flow limit the same. Pre-season comments from the FIA demonstrate that they thought teams would need to strategise to keep within the 100KG per race limit, but at most tracks it appears that that limit has been pretty much redundant. Red Bull didn't run into the race fuel limit even when they were failing to stick to the instantaneous limit. So they've got their numbers wrong, and they should make the way a car uses its fuel during the race more of a strateigic element. If you had the ability to pump fuel into the engine at 100KG/h but, if you did it all the time, you'd run out of fuel 5 laps before the end, immediately the race becomes more interesting in strategic terms. It's not against the ethos of F1. It's exactly what we had the last time we had turbo engines - there was a boost switch, but you had to be careful about using it too much.

5. Ban everything innovative.

I think that's less true of F1 than it is of any other road racing category. In F1, if the rules are silent on something, it's allowed. In ACO-rules racing, if the rules are silent on something, it's banned by implication. I accept that the F1 rulebook is extremely thick, and there are an awful lot of prescriptions and prohibitions, but if you can think of something that isn't covered and that nobody else thinks of, you can run it. And it happens all the time. The cars are replete with innovative designs.

6. Proposal to introduce sprinklers. WTF!

Agreed - a joke proposal. Even having it proposed by the commercial rights holder's representative impacts on the sport's credibility in my view, even if it isn't actually adopted, which one hopes it won't be.

7. Parc Ferme applied to FP3.

Not sure how this goes to the credibilty of the sport, tbh. It's the same for everyone. There isn't going to be so little practice that it becomes random. The best teams will still win.

8. Standing Restarts.

Agreed. If you proposed to meddle in the competition, to penalise whoever's ahead and hopefully get an exciting finish, in any other sport, they would laugh at you. If, that is, it's a sport that takes itself seriously. Creating jeopardy over the result will only increase excitment and tension if people still have respect for the competition and care about the outcome. If nobody cares who wins, it's no good manufacturing a close finish, is it?

9. No in season engine development.

Most racing categories don't have in-season engine development, either by regulation, or simply because nobody can afford it. In most racing categories, the same engines are used year after year. What's the problem? Quite recently, F1 went year after year after year with a development freeze on engines that included the winter as well, but very few people complained about that.

10. Abu Double.

Agreed. F1 is becoming a laughing stock because of precisely this sort of thing.

 

So in short, I agree that F1's reputation for being the pinnacle of motorsport, and for being a serious competition run on principles of sporting equity and fairness, has taken a battering over the past few years. But I think you're complaining about a lot of things that have nothing to do with the problem, and at the same time ignoring issues that are a large part of the problem, like excessive SC use, failure to consider and adopt fairer alternatives to the SC when competitor championships like WEC are doing so, and the adoption of SC wave-bys, all of which strike at the very heart of the Grand Prix primarily as a sporting contest, worthy of respect, rather than primarily a bit of contrived TV entertainment.



#22 Bloggsworth

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:43

Yes.



#23 Jovanotti

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:48

2. Cheese Tires to improve 'show'.


I don't know what kind of cheese you're normally having, but...

Edited by Jovanotti, 29 June 2014 - 14:48.


#24 A310V6

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:55

@redreni “Quite recently, F1 went year after year after year with a development freeze on engines”

 

That engine freeze happened after years of development.

 

Now we have an freeze in the first year of a completely new PU.

 

In this case you need massive investment, and test many configurations in parallel, to find the best one before the engine freeze ,not really “cost cutting”.

 

Passion in sport is about winning, but also about fighting back when you are down.

 

Now it’s beating 19 rounds on an opponent who is on the ground, with handcuffs on.



#25 Nova

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 14:55

"Is Formula1 becoming Joke1?"

 

Yes it is. Please stop watching and commenting about it. All of us, including you, will feel much better then. Thank you.

 

 

I have stoped watching it many a years ago, but I stop in time and again to voice my opinion about the sorry state of F1 with a dream that it again at one time might be interesting again.

 

For me the interest was tied to engine manufacturers, and when they are not allowed to develop the engines for years, the whole competition thing became a .... not a joke, a tragedy more like it.



#26 OO7

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 15:00

Its interesting listening to Jann Mardenborough at Goodwood saying that the Le Man 24hrs is a sprint race, which is how I've heard it described quite a few times in the past.  Compare that to F1 now which is now becoming 'a little' more of an endurance series. 


Edited by Obi Offiah, 29 June 2014 - 16:45.


#27 AlmightyGod

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 15:06

Now, Now. A joke is something that amuses you. If you are taking a disguised shot at the new regulations, the joke is on you. 

 

The funny bit are the petty rules and decision making, now that is a proper laughing stock


Edited by AlmightyGod, 29 June 2014 - 15:43.


#28 PretentiousBread

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 20:53

I don't take F1 seriously anymore, and I honestly cringe at those who do still take it seriously, like it means something or is worthwhile - to me I now see it as little more than this rolling roadshow hype machine with no integrity or raison d'etre. I've realised it's not a sport, it is a brand, and unlike most sports, brands rise and fall. Looks to me like this one is going the way of BlackBerry. 



#29 Risil

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 23:07

BlackBerry's making profits again isn't it?



#30 Sash1

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 06:32

11. Way too much PR dribble and psycho talk coming from the teams. Just friggin race, I do not need an daily update on any drivers psychological state of mind, or if team A thinks team B will be much stronger next race etc etc etc, if driver A invites driver B for his wedding or birthday. Or some poor excuse why they vote for a rule that they state they absolutely hate. 



#31 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:14

You know it's bad when even Viz comic is taking the piss:

https://twitter.com/...506522010292224

#32 SophieB

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 07:18

You know it's bad when even Viz comic is taking the piss:

https://twitter.com/...506522010292224

 

That Viz top tip is from the 1990s though.



#33 redreni

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:04

That Viz top tip is from the 1990s though.

 

Satirists daren't write that sort of thing about F1 anymore, in case it comes true. F1 today is in danger of being seen as more ridiculous than F1 as portrayed by satirists 15-20 years ago.



#34 pUs

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:23

Point 9 is the absolute worst thing this year IMHO. To know already before the 1st race that certain top teams won't ever be able to stage a comeback and claw back enough performance, regardless of how much effort they put in makes me lose interest. Just the thought itself goes against everything I think F1 should be about.



#35 Mercedestorque1

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:29

Those Bubble Gum Pirellis were terrible at first lol



#36 Alexis*27

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 09:30

It's entertainment at the end of the day. We all want exciting races, so I'd much rather they try something and get rid of it instead if it doesn't work, instead of pontificating whilst we have to watch boring race after boring race.

 

Standing starts after each safety car is a brilliant idea and I don't know why we didn't think of it earlier! 



#37 redreni

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:08

It's entertainment at the end of the day. We all want exciting races, so I'd much rather they try something and get rid of it instead if it doesn't work, instead of pontificating whilst we have to watch boring race after boring race.
 
Standing starts after each safety car is a brilliant idea and I don't know why we didn't think of it earlier!


Who's making you watch the races? If you think they're boring, don't watch them. And if you think gimmicks are exciting even when they mean people lose respect for the competition and, therefore, nobody cares that much about the outcome, you should watch BTCC. It's full of the sort of thing you seem to like.

#38 akshay380

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:36

It's entertainment at the end of the day. We all want exciting races, so I'd much rather they try something and get rid of it instead if it doesn't work, instead of pontificating whilst we have to watch boring race after boring race.

 

Standing starts after each safety car is a brilliant idea and I don't know why we didn't think of it earlier! 

Can I request you to watch WWE? Its VEEERY exciting but it aint a frigging sport whereas Joke1 calls itself pinnacle of Motor'Sport'



#39 pUs

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:37

Who's making you watch the races? If you think they're boring, don't watch them. And if you think gimmicks are exciting even when they mean people lose respect for the competition and, therefore, nobody cares that much about the outcome, you should watch BTCC. It's full of the sort of thing you seem to like.

 

With all respect, but that's not a very clever argument. Of course nobody forces me to watch, but does it really matter? That kind of thinking can be applied onto absolutely any kind of criticism about anything. 

 

Many people are emotional about a sport they used to love (or perhaps still love). Of course many of them will feel bad if it keeps changing in a direction they don't like, there will always be memories of what it used to be, and hope that it could return one day. I can't really see how that is different to the rest of life in general. 


Edited by pUs, 30 June 2014 - 10:39.


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#40 redreni

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 11:02

With all respect, but that's not a very clever argument. Of course nobody forces me to watch, but does it really matter? That kind of thinking can be applied onto absolutely any kind of criticism about anything. 
 
Many people are emotional about a sport they used to love (or perhaps still love). Of course many of them will feel bad if it keeps changing in a direction they don't like, there will always be memories of what it used to be, and hope that it could return one day. I can't really see how that is different to the rest of life in general.


It's up to you whether you watch, but the poster to whom I was replying complained the "we have to watch boring race after boring race", so unless he literally means he and others are being coerced by a person or persons unknown to watch Formula 1 Grands Prix against their will, I am surely within my rights to suggest that, if F1 still demands an attention span thatis too long to keep him interested, he might prefer to watch a championship that features shorter races and plenty of artificial measures to promote close racing, like BTCC.

#41 Alexis*27

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 13:28

Can I request you to watch WWE? Its VEEERY exciting but it aint a frigging sport whereas Joke1 calls itself pinnacle of Motor'Sport'

 

What a daft argument. The pinnacle of motorsport means f-all if you end up with zero overtaking, no incidents, no crowd and no TV deals. 



#42 akshay380

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 13:45

What a daft argument. The pinnacle of motorsport means f-all if you end up with zero overtaking, no incidents, no crowd and no TV deals. 

Well move on than. Your support for safety car restart said it all  :rotfl:



#43 Shambolic

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 14:25

With all respect, but that's not a very clever argument. Of course nobody forces me to watch, but does it really matter? That kind of thinking can be applied onto absolutely any kind of criticism about anything.


I find football really rather tedious. Perhaps if every match had a random interval with a goal reset I'd be more inclined to watch. Better yet, how about a special glowing ball bonus, where the ball lights up for a few minutes and is worth a double goal? Hell, I want glowy ball reset multiball finales!

Or I could just accept football isn't for me, and shouldn't be changed so I'll watch it.


Those in charge of F1 (especially the teams and their dwarfish ringmaster) are ever more forgetful that the sport creates spectacle enough, and has for generations. Instead of chasing ever more casual viewers (and their collective millions to go into the new yacht kitty) they could try not denigrating their own sport in the media, and they could try not protecting their personal interests over and above the integrity of the competition.

#44 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 14:39

Integrity!  Ferrari is paid the most from FOM for no good reason!  What sort of integrity is that!??

 

and they could try not protecting their personal interests over and above the integrity of the competition.



#45 redreni

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 15:29

Integrity!  Ferrari is paid the most from FOM for no good reason!  What sort of integrity is that!??

 

Integrity is not a word one would apply to the deals struck between the constructors and the commercial rights holder. Part of the commercial revenues are allocated on merit based on WCC position. The rest of it reflects how much the commercial rights holder values the constructor's participation in the championship, relative to the other constructors. It would matter more to the commericial rights holder if certain manufacturers weren't there, compared to others. You could argue that it should all be divvied up on merit, or that part of it should be allocated on merit and part of it distributed equally. Either way, it won't be a level playing field, and it doesn't need to be in order to be regarded as a serious sporting contest. Very few sports operate on a level financial playing field.

 

If we're going to be at all clear about what we're talking about, here, we should certainly distinguish between the integrity of the commercial arrangements, and integrity of the competition itself. The commercial arrangements have been handled personally by Ecclestone for many years, so it's probably best to forget any discussion of integrity at that point. But the contention of the OP is that F1 is losing credibility, and my view is that this is largely due to the adoption of regulations that devalue the sport by distorting the races themselves. It isn't due to the commercial arrangements, because they've never been egalitarian and they've never been entirely meritocratic. They're essentially no different now to how they've always been. People take F1 less seriously than they used to because they think it's an increasingly desperate championship, run to Super Mario rules, where the best driver/team combination on race day is liable to be shafted by regulatory gimmicks designed to rustle up a bit of artificial excitement.



#46 mclarennut

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 18:32

If it is becoming a joke, I am not laughing.....



#47 Gyno

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 19:36

It already is a joke.

 

If You want it to change.

Stop watching, turn your tv off.

 

You could also contact your favorite team and tell them what you think of these new regulations and the way F1 is going.

They are ones who have voted for this crap.



#48 sopa

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 19:52

I still believe the "worst" is to come. It is clearly going in that direction.

 

Just an example. I just read that Formula E plans to give extra boost for drivers via fan voting on twitter. 

My gut feeling tells that... one day, one day, we will see this in F1 as well. :lol:  Okay, Hamilton, Raikkonen and drivers with big fanbases can be happy with that one to get constant boosts! Though I believe whoever is leading the race, will be having a tough time, because fans would be voting for a close race and the drivers behind to close up. Sort of like "catch up" setting in a racing game. Who thought we might see this in real racing.:D



#49 PretentiousBread

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 22:05

I still believe the "worst" is to come. It is clearly going in that direction.
 
Just an example. I just read that Formula E plans to give extra boost for drivers via fan voting on twitter. 
My gut feeling tells that... one day, one day, we will see this in F1 as well. :lol:  Okay, Hamilton, Raikkonen and drivers with big fanbases can be happy with that one to get constant boosts! Though I believe whoever is leading the race, will be having a tough time, because fans would be voting for a close race and the drivers behind to close up. Sort of like "catch up" setting in a racing game. Who thought we might see this in real racing.:D


If we're even contemplating this as a reality, it's time to switch off the TV and find a new hobby - as I have done, tennis is great!

#50 engel

engel
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Posted 30 June 2014 - 22:25

While I generally understand the frustrations, there's also a counter argument. F1's value is directly tied to the number of eyeballs watching it on TV. The alternative is to stick it behind a full paywall so that the sport has a guaranteed income, but we don' want that. So they need to figure out ways to keep eyeballs glued to the TV, and no matter how you slice it the eyeballs that count aren't the 5% that will get up at 3AM to watch a practice session, it's the 95% that casually follows F1 and does not hesitate to flick over to I don't know dancing with the stars if F1 isn't providing them with entertainment. So it's almost inevitable you will either end up with contrived regulations designed to introduce mock entertainment or you will have regulatory silliness with the FIA randomly banning successful teams to spice up the show. Cause there is really is no middle ground, if you think about it, the whole "energy efficiency" thing has cost upwards of half a billion dollars total across the sport, that's not pocket change, it somehow needs to get recouped. Or F1 can go to some sort of DFV era rehash where it was self sustaining simply because it was cheap and survive on a much smaller scale. But there is no real way, in these ADD days we live in, to sustain a global sport that doesn't entertain.