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Ecclestone wants bigger F1 teams to run third car


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#1 LORDBYRON

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 17:49

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114744

so after been told to for years that the teams cant have three cars he now wants it to happen remember he said that he would be happy if some of grand prix's backmarkers closed down 

this after the Monza scare he is just out for more dosh?

Edited by iii, 01 July 2014 - 18:06.


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#2 ExFlagMan

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:03

And you can bet he will only pay the top 6-7 teams the TV money - got to save a bit more for the gold coffin handles

#3 TheManAlive

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:08

Is he still facing charges in Germany? Lets keep our fingers crossed that the Judge is an F1 fan and he locks him away!



#4 Red17

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:09

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/114744

so after been told to for years that the teams cant have three cars he now wants it to happen remember he said that he would be happy if some of grand prix's backmarkers closed down 

this after the Monza scare he is just out for more dosh?

 

 

Not really, when the USGP fiasco happened there was talk that Bernie's contracts mention a minimum number of cars on the grid. It's very lilely that number still exists in some agreements.

So he's just covering his own rear, if too many backmarker teams go bust he needs to find aditional cars on the remaining teams.



#5 Jejking

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:11

Un. ****ing. Believable. Better introduce the sprinklers already and be done with this 'sport'..



#6 masa90

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:14

Bernie, wtf are you doing XD

 

Wont happen untill the sport digs itself deep into... (oh well, might be sooner than we think)

But seriously, the new ideas thrown around make f1 seem like wwe or something.



#7 Afterburner

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:16

If they're desperate enough, they'll come up with an excuse to make it happen. Allow me to try to follow an FIA/Bernie-style line of reasoning here: "Count the team colours at any race. How many Caterham/Marussia/et al shirts do you see? Next to none? Okay, cool--let's get those teams off the grid as the fans clearly don't care about them, and give the teams the fans do care about more cars! The fans will love it! Look how good we are for doing what the fans want!"

Edited by Afterburner, 01 July 2014 - 18:16.


#8 John Player

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:17

is something happening at germany this week?



#9 redreni

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:25

Well if he kills the little teams, the remaining teams will have to field more cars. It says so in the rules.

#10 BRG

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:41

is something happening at germany this week?

Let's hope so!  Colditz Castle beckons, Bernie...



#11 demet06

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:45

There's nothing new here. Teams used to run 3 cars until they changed the rules. Then they always took 3 cars to every GP. Nothing to stop them running 3 cars in my book, Might give some more young drivers a chance to make it into F1.



#12 Fastcake

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:45

Bernie has been saying this for years. He's always wanted to keep the teams at the bottom cash-strapped and hungry for success - at least that's the reasoning he gives when questioned. What he actually thinks would be best for Formula One is unknown. Bernie never means what he says in public.



#13 Risil

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:50

When I think about the racing series I like, most of them let a team run three or more entries. So it's hard to oppose this one on principle.

 

However, it's hard to see any other intent behind this proposal than an attempt to paper over the cracks if/when Sauber and Caterham withdraw.



#14 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 18:56

I'd much rather have extra front running cars than ones at the back. Though the more cars each team runs, the more unstable the grid becomes imo. Mercedes will eventually no longer have a works team. 



#15 SophieB

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:00

Odd. I was only saying the other day in the 'what are your cost cutting solutions' thread how Bernie used to lobby for this and now here we are again. Wonder if he'll have any better luck this time round.



#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:04

I've never really had a problem with 3rd cars (or customer cars for that matter) as long as they're allowed under conditions that won't ruin the smaller constructors.



#17 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:09

I'm not sure Bernie wants it, it is just the situation the big teams have put the sport in by vetoing all the cost caps.

#18 KingTiger

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:14

I want Bernie to go away



#19 LORDBYRON

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:14

a third car with a young paid driver is good for testing everything its not as bad as it seems, tbh with Friday morning practice sessions set be scrapped in 2015  its a wonder it has not already been pushed trough 


Edited by iii, 01 July 2014 - 19:18.


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#20 lambylamby

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:24

If anyone who is in the higher echelons of f1 wants to know how to improve the sport and appeal to their audience I think this topic might be a good place for them to read. I personally after this current 'joke' can't wait for the stunted gargoyle's trial, that or his cork popping moment. It's now a farce with the rules, I barely watch any races this year because it reeks of berecruacy and ill planned ideas, ad worst of all - ignorance. Let's hope the F1 replacement comes soon, or better someone with sense takes over.

Edit: the small teams are the lifeblood of the sport. Where to you stop the cuts, when there are just 2 teams running 10 cars as everyone else went bust?

Edited by lambylamby, 01 July 2014 - 19:27.


#21 Gyno

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 19:28

They should let the small teams run just 1 car.



#22 4MEN

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 20:01

And have threads of X vs Y vs Z drivers?  :drunk:



#23 R Soul

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 21:12

Imagine Red Bull's team orders codes: Multi 123, Multi 132, Multi 213, Multi 231, Multi 312 and Multi 321



#24 pdac

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 21:18

I seem to remember reading that contracts with circuits and TV companies state that there will be a minimum of 18 cars racing. So I think Bernie is just trying to avoid breach of contract if too many teams fold.



#25 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 21:24

Just have customer cars that the lower teams can afford.

Then you would have a hilarious situation where a lower team buys a 2012 spec Mclaren for example while the works team run their 2013 spec Mclaren and the newer can ends up being slower than the car it replaced.

Didnt Honda and Super Aguri face a similar situation back in 2008?

#26 redreni

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 21:51

I seem to remember reading that contracts with circuits and TV companies state that there will be a minimum of 18 cars racing. So I think Bernie is just trying to avoid breach of contract if too many teams fold.

 

I don't know what the deal is now with the separate commercial arrangements for each team, but I'm sure under the Concorde agreements it was established that if there weren't enough cars on the grid, the remaining teams would be obligated to field three cars. I can't believe CVC would have allowed the teams to negotiate their way out of that commitment, as it's an important safety net for the sport if we have another 2009 situation where the manufacturers are pulling the plug, and the independent teams are struggling to survive. Assuming that's still the case, what Bernie is actually saying to the manufacturers is "look, the small teams are going to die, but don't expect me to do anything about it. I'm not giving them any more FOM money. I don't care what happens to them. If they die, it's going to cost you money, because you're going to have to take their place."

 

It would be interesting to try to work out whether the big teams would be worse or better off if this happened. Because if another three teams went to the wall, the FOM money those teams currently get would be added to the pot and shared out between the remaining teams, but would it be enough to offset the cost of running another car. If you're already constructing two F1 cars, the extra cost of a third one is going to be a lot less than what the first two cost, surely? But it will cost just as much to run. You'll need to increase the size of your race team by at least a third I'd have thought, to be able to handle another car. But the extra R&D cost would be zero. This could end up happening.



#27 dgsg

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 23:27

. . . and this will help cut costs how?



#28 understeer

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 00:26

Will any other sport tolerate the management constantly threatening and going against its own sport ? 



#29 Rob G

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 00:49

Would Martini or whatever sponsors McLaren are trying to woo want to spend a huge fortune to support a team that would be lucky to even break into the top ten? Because that's precisely what we'd have this year if Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari were running three cars.



#30 Radoye

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 01:17

Back when we had 3-car teams the 3rd was not eligible for constructor points. We also had single car teams, customer cars, privateers and part-timers - all this was outlawed under Bernie's regime. I am not against 3rd cars for teams who can afford it, but i can see it quickly turning into a farce with team shenanigans where a favored driver is being let past and the 3rd car is being used to block other teams or even take their cars out altogether. We have seen this in other series (see DTM season 2007 for a prime example).

 

If 3rd cars are allowed as an option, then single car teams should be allowed too.



#31 slideways

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:00

I would prefer a satellite team setup with customer chassis that can only run the single car. Still allow them to compete for both championships.

 

Some teams already are willing to fund up to 4 cars ... why not put a regulation around it and enable more sponsors etc.

 

 

It would allow both the entrepreneurs and lower formula teams a better chance to join the grid and it's not like we've never done customer cars before in F1.


Edited by slideways, 02 July 2014 - 02:03.


#32 Jimisgod

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:34

"My driver isn't a #3 driver!"

"Alonso has stipulated #2 driver in his contract, unfair on #3"

"These Mercedes 1-2-3s are boring."

"Will RBR sign Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel for 2016?"

#33 Thomas99

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 03:13

Im not really against this.



#34 chipmcdonald

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:13

It's not like the bottom half of the field is actually racing to win - so does it really matter?

 

F1 is so screwed up now what's the point? 

 

Sauber is not going to rise above.  Williams looks like Ron Paul - there to make it look like the show is "for reals", but not really.  Toro Rosso - they would never be allowed to actually out perform RBR,.. what's really the point?

 

It's Mercedes/RBR/Ferrari.  And even that is screwed up.  New engine formula?  Frozen engines?  No testing?  To "save money"?

 

Really...?

 

"Something" is going to happen in 2017: again I predict GP2 will be turned into "F1" as the regulations become finally closed down completely on testing/modifications.  



#35 Petroltorque

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:27

Three car teams just shows that the present business model is broken. How many teams can afford to run 3 cars? Ferrari, Red Bull, probably. Mercedes only if the supervisory board agrees to the extra expense. McLaren, they don't even have a title sponsor. The problems are twofold, firstly the present rules are cost prohibitive and CVC take too much money out of the sport. I also question the suggestion that grandee teams would run a rookie in the third car. A team like Ferrari will always opt for the experienced journeyman over a talented hotshoe. Then there is the team orders shenanigans. One could argue that when teams can run so many components off the shelf we already have customer cars. Asking a team to design it's own tub should be the basic eligibility requirement for F1.

#36 chipmcdonald

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:56

Let the lower teams dust off some cars from previous seasons..... 



#37 SenorSjon

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:22

I don't have anything against this, as long as they can choose to do so.

 

 

They should let the small teams run just 1 car.

 

This. Just have teams entering anything between 1-4 cars/season (not on GP base). I don't get it why F1 is so worked up to have 2 car teams.



#38 moorsey

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:36

I haven't really thought this through in detail but the first thing that sprang to mind was the possible increase in excitement if we saw another season with a very dominant car. Three cars jostling for the lead could certainly spice things up a bit.
Not sure how you fit this with the pit crews though.

#39 f1RacingForever

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:46

Wouldn't teams have to agree on this as it will cost them all more money? I don't think anyone wants to be spending more money at this point. He does have a point though. I would rather have another Ferrari than another Caterham.



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#40 uzsjgb

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:35

i can see it quickly turning into a farce with team shenanigans where a favored driver is being let past and the 3rd car is being used to block other teams or even take their cars out altogether.

 

All that has been done with two cars.



#41 Fourjays

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:35

I wouldn't necessarily be against it. Would probably prefer it to customer cars.

 

Problem is someone has to finish last and that someone isn't going to get a big enough piece of the pie to survive.



#42 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:39

Why not have a third 'works' car in a different livery? It would be fully supported by the parent works team but their set up for the GP weekend would be their own - as it should be if they are running their own livery etc.

 

PS: I know this just sounds like a customer team again.



#43 uzsjgb

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 08:41

When I think about the racing series I like, most of them let a team run three or more entries. So it's hard to oppose this one on principle.

 

Andretti and Ganassi run 4 cars in IndyCar, some teams just one. Similar in Nascar. But these series have a much tighter competetion, rarely, if ever, do we have a podium comprised of only one team. In Formula 1 however we would always have a Mercedes 1-2-3, instead of a Mercedes 1-2.

 

Personally I am in favor of more cars per team, but only after a few rule changes which even out the competetion. But that won't happen in Formula 1.



#44 August

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:00

Two cars per constructor has become part of F1's nature and I don't want that to change. They should ensure there are at least 9-10 financially relatively healthy constructors plus few more to ensure there will be around 20 cars, even if some team(s) would exit.



#45 Rinehart

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:03

It seems inevitable to me that this will end up happening, regardless of if Bernie wants it or not.

Then we'll get to about 5 teams running 4 cars...



#46 Lights

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:12

Well this is unique, is this the first time Bernie and Luca actually agree on something?



#47 SophieB

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:14

 

Yes, it is quite the coincidence that this is something Luca has long wanted.



#48 wj_gibson

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:34

Fine.

 

Well, what I want is for a much more equitable distribution of F1's wealth, for teams to become about one third the size that they currently are, for at least 15 teams to participate, and for Bernie Ecclestone to be removed from F1 and never darken its door again.


Edited by wj_gibson, 02 July 2014 - 09:34.


#49 Ferrari2183

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:43

3 car teams and customer cars are waaaaaaaay better than the proposals currently going around in F1.

I don't see the problem.

#50 Sash1

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 09:52

Nice, now big teams can use a 3th car to make up for the test bans. Let nr 1 and 2 race, while nr 3 tests some stuff all weekend without even bothering to put in a good result. Great idea.....