22 replies to this topic

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Jonathan Noble suggests in his latest Autosport article that 1 solution to things like daft rule changes, rules being chosen that aren't in the best interests of the sport, things like that while also possibly keeping the teams happy is to say to the teams "Give up your right to have any voice on the rules in exchange for a bigger and more evenly shared pot of commercial income.

 

What do people think? Personally, I'd agree at least in terms of the teams not being able to have any decisions on rules etc, as let's be honest, everyone is in it for themselves, and if they think a rule won't benefit them, they're not likely to accept it. Also would surely mean the end of Ferrari's veto which we know about, but it basically means the FIA can decide the rules without the teams having anything to do with it, being able to vote rules in etc.

[kraduk]

Jonathan Noble suggests in his latest Autosport article that 1 solution to things like daft rule changes, rules being chosen that aren't in the best interests of the sport, things like that while also possibly keeping the teams happy is to say to the teams "Give up your right to have any voice on the rules in exchange for a bigger and more evenly shared pot of commercial income.

 

What do people think? Personally, I'd agree at least in terms of the teams not being able to have any decisions on rules etc, as let's be honest, everyone is in it for themselves, and if they think a rule won't benefit them, they're not likely to accept it. Also would surely mean the end of Ferrari's veto which we know about, but it basically means the FIA can decide the rules without the teams having anything to do with it, being able to vote rules in etc.

 

I can only see one way to improve racing and reduce costs dramatically, and that is become a spec series, or as close to it as possible. That is what is needed for the "sport". However this isnt f1, and the amount of turmoil that would mean for the teams would be immense. A half way house maybe to ban in season updates to cars, apart from one joker for specialized tracks like monaco/hungry.

[DrivenF1]

Opening the technical regulations up but limiting costs is the best way to go.

 

It's exciting this year as the difference in the cars means Williams are very good at low downforce tracks, Lotus at high downforce and Ferrari have a balance. Unfortunately the Mercs are best everywhere except perhaps Monza (depending on gearing). I want to see cars with vastly different characteristics battling it out so each race is unpredictable.

[DrivenF1]

And whatever you do don't get rid of tracks like Hungary, Monaco and Monza as they are a very unique test for the cars.

 

Circuits like Korea, US and Catalunya are very balanced (a bit of everything) which means the best cars usually win there.

Edited by Cult, 03 July 2014 - 11:56.

[Seanspeed]

This is win-win for the FIA, since they aren't the ones who pay money to the teams. Its lose-lose for the FOM, who *does* give the teams money but gets nothing in return with this deal. And win-lose for the teams, who get more money, but leave the well being of the sport to an entity that has proven they dont know what's best for the sport(which is why the teams have a say at all right now).

And lose-lose for the fans because we get no money and like the teams, are at the completely mercy of the FIA knowing what's best.

Edited by Seanspeed, 03 July 2014 - 12:07.

[uffen]

F1 is too committee-bound. Various panels each get a say-so in new rules, some majority rule, some two-thirds rule. Some have all teams, some select teams. It is a mess and I agree that teams should be kept out of the rule making process.

[paulogman]

As soon as you make any series "spec" you kill it.
Especially open wheel non oval.

Only NASCAR has succeeded as a spec series, but they have enough soap opera to keep peoples' attention.
There aren't enough intriguing personalities in f1 to sustain popularity if it becomes a spec series.

[BillyWhizz]

Simplify aero, increase ride height just enough to reduce aero effect and increase mechanical grip.

 

Get rid of those hateful and divisive bloody v6t and put the noise back into the mix.

[chipmcdonald]

F1 is too committee-bound. Various panels each get a say-so in new rules, some majority rule, some two-thirds rule. Some have all teams, some select teams. It is a mess and I agree that teams should be kept out of the rule making process.

 

This is the essence, they're too bureaucratic.  It's always going to be a mediocre decision, and in a bureaucracy there is always going to be an inequity of voices - things will be guided towards a beneficial outcome for certain voices.  

 

The bureaucracy is there to hide inefficiency and graft, as everywhere.

 

F1 is run like an American city government, lots of meetings where nothing is accomplished, but then a couple of behind-closed-doors meetings with Other People that end up being given precedence.  

Which is good for just about nothing but wasting money.

[Kristian]

To be honest, F1's success has been due to Bernie's dictatorial regime - democracy is a cack way of getting things done, and if the right person is in the top seat with the right motivations then it works fine. Bernie had the right ideas in the past, and along with a similar character in Max Mosely (as much as I loathed the man) F1 was in rude health. 

 

But now Bernie is a bit past it, probably isn't running F1 with the right intentions anymore (or, at least, is under the control of CVC who don't give a damn about the sport), and has his eye off the ball due to the various court cases against him. We need someone new. 

 

But what we need to keep is ONE person in charge, and make that the RIGHT person. Someone who knows about the sport, and someone not afraid to take on the big guns. The WORST solution would be to have F1 run by committee of any sort. 

[chipmcdonald]

But what we need to keep is ONE person in charge, and make that the RIGHT person. Someone who knows about the sport, and someone not afraid to take on the big guns. The WORST solution would be to have F1 run by committee of any sort. 

 

 

 CVC is going to have a war on it's hands: the tracks are going to rebel, the teams are going to be wanting more.  It will self-destruct fast I am afraid.

 

Unless they're brave enough to put one person at the helm.  I'm telling you guys, every time Niki talks it's 3rd person about "Formula 1" as if he's got his mind on what needs to be changed, half the time he references his own team 3rd person....

 

A corporate committee isn't going to work, F1 will be dead in 2 seasons.  If things are ridiculous now, they're going to be doubly ridiculous once "marketing" and "professionals" get hold of it, and then goofy slow-motion aircraft carrier scale turn arounds are attempted.

 

[slideways]

If they import some Bernie replacement we will just have more mario kart jumps and power ups.

They need a cricket style board of conservative old pricks, given a holy mandate of upholding the sanctity of the sport. Any who oppose them shall be stripped of rank and permit and hung at noon.

[KingTiger]

The only solution at this point is to sack everyone that has a say in the rules, ban them from ever stepping foot at an F1 event, and start with a blank slate. 

[SenorSjon]

If they import some Bernie replacement we will just have more mario kart jumps and power ups.

They need a cricket style board of conservative old pricks, given a holy mandate of upholding the sanctity of the sport. Any who oppose them shall be stripped of rank and permit and hung at noon.

 

That is why soccer still lives in the stone age.

 

Video referee? Open comlink with ref? Bullshit detector for 100kg muscles crying when the were hardly touched?

[noikeee]

That is why soccer still lives in the stone age.

 

Video referee? Open comlink with ref? Bullshit detector for 100kg muscles crying when the were hardly touched?

 

Football suffers from the opposite problem F1 has - too much reluctance to change the rules. F1 changes its rules far too much.

 

Mind you, football is much much healthier than F1 at the moment (exclusively talking about the way the sport plays out - in a financial/organizational sense FIFA's far worse and more corrupt than Bernie & friends). I think their conservative approach is far closer to the sweet spot of how should you handle a sport, than F1's approach... Football has the advantage of being a much simpler sport, of course, but it still feels very much like a sport. F1, sadly, increasingly doesn't. Somewhere someone decided it should be a "show", a "business" and "entertainment", and whilst that's all very valid, the word "sport" has all but disappeared when important people in the media talk about F1. It's time to be reintroduced.

[redreni]

Well it won't work because (a) you can't magically make the pot of commercial revenues bigger as the only way to do it would be to cut out CVC by breaking away, in which case the manufacturers would insist on full control, and (b) if you share the revenues more evenly, the very teams who currently get a say in the rulemaking process would get a lesser share than they do now. So it's a nice idea, but there are at least two very big reasons why it would not be accepted by the manufacturer-backed teams.

[pdac]

The thing is the teams can't see that F1 is broken. The small teams want more money, but the bigger teams are fine with everything as it is. There is no way that the teams are going to voluntarily do anything to improve the situation. As everyone keeps saying, the only solution is to impose strict budget caps on them (and, perhaps, remove any voting/veto rights that they have).

[superden]

The world has changed, F1 isn't well placed in the risk and fun averse 21st century. The sport, and often those who follow it, are viewed as dinosaurs by many. I've had that very conversation myself, people asking why I follow a sport where rich drivers race in circles polluting the environment and wasting millions. Its cobblers, of course, but the green 'movement' shouts loudest and usually gets its way. Rather like the most polluting pile on British roads is the fume belching bus, with 2 passengers on board, not the modern family car with 4 people in it. Ask most people who the devil is though and the bus will be awarded the notional halo. F1 is banging the green drum, whilst sending a circus of racing cars around the world. It's trying to appeal to the 15 minute attention span of young Twitter users, and retain its appeal to the more traditional fan. It's introducing bizarre regulations to 'spice up' the 'show' and then fails to understand why hardcore fans think its turning into a clown act. It wants to portray itself as the pinnacle of motorsport, yet looks to introduce 18" truck wheels on the basis of whether they make the cars look more 'bling'. They send the sport to venues with no fans for increased profits and wonder why people are angry as to why traditional venues have been dropped.

 

In short, F1 doesn't know where the hell its going, or what the hell it is anymore. Until you sort that out, it's just going to get worse, irrespective of who is manning the tiller.

Edited by superden, 07 July 2014 - 13:33.

[Kraken]

There aren't enough hardcore fans to generate the massive amounts of money F1 needs. At the level of money F1 needs it's in the mainstream entertainment business and is competing against prime time TV rather than other sports.

 

Budget caps won't work as they're completely impossible to police.

 

The engines are definitely the right way forward, miles better then antiquated V8's that made no use of modern technology. 

 

The level of greed in the sport is the biggest thing they need to address. I've read reports from more than one ex-F1 person who was shocked at how high salaries are in the F1 industry compared to the "normal" private sector when they moved into it.

 

Something needs to be done about the complexity and expense of all the aero bits (especially the front wings) without slowing the cars down. Danger of messing around with them too much is that one of the other open wheel series could then become faster which would leave F1 looking pretty stupid.

[Deluxx]

Not trying to be rude, but why is everyone always trying to fix F1? I think that might be the problem.

 

Just enjoy the product. Silverstone had some of the closest racing I've seen from this group in a while.

[DrivenF1]

This season has been pretty entertaining - Bahrain, Monaco, Canada, Austria and Silverstone were all good to exceptional races.

[Ali_G]

IMO, F1's problems will not be fully sorted until a proper cost cap is introduced.  Until then, things like long life engines and gearboxes simply are not lowering costs and are nothing but ways to pander to the bigger teams.

[vista]

The world has changed, F1 isn't well placed in the risk and fun averse 21st century. The sport, and often those who follow it, are viewed as dinosaurs by many. I've had that very conversation myself, people asking why I follow a sport where rich drivers race in circles polluting the environment and wasting millions. Its cobblers, of course, but the green 'movement' shouts loudest and usually gets its way. Rather like the most polluting pile on British roads is the fume belching bus, with 2 passengers on board, not the modern family car with 4 people in it. Ask most people who the devil is though and the bus will be awarded the notional halo. F1 is banging the green drum, whilst sending a circus of racing cars around the world. It's trying to appeal to the 15 minute attention span of young Twitter users, and retain its appeal to the more traditional fan. It's introducing bizarre regulations to 'spice up' the 'show' and then fails to understand why hardcore fans think its turning into a clown act. It wants to portray itself as the pinnacle of motorsport, yet looks to introduce 18" truck wheels on the basis of whether they make the cars look more 'bling'. They send the sport to venues with no fans for increased profits and wonder why people are angry as to why traditional venues have been dropped.

In short, F1 doesn't know where the hell its going, or what the hell it is anymore. Until you sort that out, it's just going to get worse, irrespective of who is manning the tiller.

I can't stand environment activists. Including those who criticise F1, shell or fossil fuels.

In reality, they hinder beneficial progress and creativity with dark-green propaganda (the same could be said about many other organisations, politics and idealism) Formula 1 and other platforms are bases of extreme creativity and innovation - including subjects as fuel efficiency, hybrid technology, and aerodynamics which are very beneficial to the modern world. In fact, huge competition and crowd sourcing stimulates creativity and innovative solutions and F1 is one of many, many platforms that help make this world a better place.

It is very ironic indeed, unless they really want us to live as in the stoneage..

As for F1 I would like to see less restrictions in the rules and allow more innovation in terms of mechanical features on the cars. In that way the same amount of money is spent on things which are more relevant to the world than the same money spent on irrelevant tweaks to the cars as we see today.

Edited by vista, 07 July 2014 - 16:30.