177 replies to this topic

[Thomas99]

He should retire now

[johnnyw]

He should retire now

 Why exatly, because you say so?

 

 

Sure it has gone badly this year, but its certainly not as black & white than the results suggest. There has been several occaions when the team has royally messed up it for him aswell, its not like its only Raikkonen who is resposible for this mess of an half season.

Edited by johnnyw, 09 July 2014 - 06:18.

[Dunc]

I think it is about time for Kimi to hang up his helmet.  Between 2003-07 he was deadly - always a contender and always at the front.

Since he became a WDC though he just hasn't looked that hungry so I'd like to see him make way for a someone else with more to prove.

 

I do hope he gets a decent car next year but I have a feeling that we won't see a vintage Kimi performance again.

[Kristian]

 

 

I do hope he gets a decent car next year but I have a feeling that we won't see a vintage Kimi performance again.

 

If he's mediochre at Spa then we know this will probably be the case. 

[ViMaMo]

Kimi's speed has been masked by Ferrari's sludge of a car. He is unfortunately among the drivers who have a certain specifics when it comes to driving on the edge. Plant Kimi in Mclaren-Honda. Kimi for another 5 years. 

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

I think it is about time for Kimi to hang up his helmet.  Between 2003-07 he was deadly - always a contender and always at the front.

Since he became a WDC though he just hasn't looked that hungry so I'd like to see him make way for a someone else with more to prove.
 
I do hope he gets a decent car next year but I have a feeling that we won't see a vintage Kimi performance again.

His Hungary 2012 or Australia 2013 was vintage as vintage gets, especially Hungary 2012...

[TheMidnight]

Complete finger in the air stuff.....

 

Could he be part of the Ferrari LMP1 project? The word on the pitlane is that Ferrari have a programme ready to go, but are awaiting stability in the WEC regs (next big change 2017??) and sorting out the cost cap in F1 before coming in. 

 

it's complete speculation but there's a few little snippets of info which may give it some legs 

 

• Alonso and race engineer studying intensely the back of the Audi R18, taking photo's of the braking ducts in particular at the last FIA gala 
• Allan McNish stating that he was asked/overhead comments coming from Alonso and engineer that were above and beyond the technical knowledge of the most dedicated superfan about the R18 and general LMP1 related aero..ie there's some research going on.
• The Ferrari LMP1/GT 'Mule' that's been doing testing at Fiorano for the past year or so 
• Alonso stating at the last Le Mans he would like to do it 
• Kimi stating recently he'd like to do WEC and Le Mans 
• Luca Di Blah Blah Blah stating he wants Ferrari in WEC (therefore at Le Mans)

Nothing of any real substance, but where's there's smoke there's fire right???! 

 

I could quite comfortably see Jenson in the rumoured McLaren/Honda LMP1 programme and either Kimi or Alonso in the Ferrari LMP1 

 

Kimi may turn up at Nissan next year for their first season (in a while) back into WEC, although realistically I think those drivers are already picked. 

Edited by Elissa, 10 July 2014 - 15:32.

[DutchQuicksilver]

He should retire now

Why? If not for his bad luck at Monaco, he would have had the same amount of podium finishes as the great Alonso has achieved so far.

[VolvoT5]

I really get fed up of people saying he isn't motivated or 'hungry'.  Where is the evidence for this other than his stroppy media persona?

 

Really I can't see he needs the cash so badly that he would sign for Ferrari if he wasn't motivated.  I think he came back to F1 to try and win another Championship and if it wasn't for the  utter dominance of Redbull last 2 years he may have had an outside shot at it.  However now the cars have changed he is clearly struggling to adapt. 

 

I only hope he can up his game or else he probably should retire quite soon because things are quite embarrassing for him at the moment. 

[RuleyRamundo]

Lucky 2007 WDC because of McLaren made up for any unlucky previous championship efforts. Time to try Rally X with JV. 

[Oho]

Something about ten foot pole....

 

Anyway in 2007 Räikkönen did prevail against two drivers having championship quality machinery both of whom common wisdom now has it are vastly superior producing hell of bottom half of a season in process.  Well you can always run behind the team orders at Brazil evidence for which is however circumstantial at best.

[Balnazzard]

sigh...yet again people questioning Kimi's motivation and his hunger for 2nd title....how many times has the man himself say that he would quit as soon as he felt that he didnt enjoy the sport anymore...

 

Oh, but he is just driving because of the money right? Like when he did last year for Lotus right? Like he didnt have enough money for the rest of his life?

 

The silliness in these forums is just too much sometimes...but it seems that every single time, when he is not able to perform to his best people always bring up the motivation question....

 

Lets, just end that talk right here:

 

I really hope that Ferrari is able to build a better and different car for next year, then quite many things said about Kimi right now would look incredibly stupid (or then I will look stupid if Kimi still continues to struggle). But anyways, whether or not Kimi is able to perform any better for the remaining of the season or 2015, its not a question about motivation....sure you can question all you want his motivation when he says that I will retire soon anyways, but all of us knew anyway, without him saying it or not, whether Kimi is able to get great results or not that he wouldnt have remained in the sport for many years anyways. He is soon 35 years old, so he is soon as old as Michael Schumacher (when he first retired after 2006) or Nigel Mansell were when they retired, so again its not about the question of motivation, but Kimi is being just honest and realistic about it...but while he IS in the sport, he is there to do his best. Sure the fact is that he is struggling now, but 2015 could be entirely different story. In 2012 and 2013 no-one was questiong Kimi's motivation (well except that Sky reporter...), in F1 small things can be big difference and things can change rather quickly.

Edited by Balnazzard, 11 July 2014 - 10:25.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

Lucky 2007 WDC because of McLaren made up for any unlucky previous championship efforts. Time to try Rally X with JV.

Yes, but on the other hand, it was not his fault not winning the titles in 2003 and 2005.

Isn't it weird that in many cases the titles which were achieved were less justified than when in other years the same drivers didn't win would've deserved it more than the drivers who actually won them.

E.g. 1983 and 1984 titles for Prost would've been more deserved and the 1989 and 1993 titles he did win were much more deserved by another driver.

Or Alonso: In 2005, the title was more deserved for another driver, yet in years where he didn't win , he deserved them the most (2012).

And there are many other examples (Piquet in 1983 or 1987 where the titles were more deserved by others and in 1986 where he didn't win, he deserved it more to win.

[sennafan24]

Or Alonso: In 2005, the title was more deserved for another driver, yet in years where he didn't win , he deserved them the most (2012).

Agreed on most examples you gave.

 

But Alonso's 2005 has aged quite well.. He barely made any errors other than in Canada. On the end of the Season Review some drivers openly accept he was a worthy Champion.  Given the talent he showcased in 2006, and in years after, I would say Alonso deserved it in 2005, at least as much as Kimi.

 

A Championship win can be made more worthy by what we learn about the context of the individuals involved afterwards.

Edited by sennafan24, 11 July 2014 - 10:54.

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

Yes, in 2005 Alonso drove great, no doubt about it. I just thought it was more Raikkonen's lost title and given how strong and super fast Montoya was considered and look where he was in 2005, it was impressive what Raikkonen "did" to him (he didn't even become 3rd in the standings). And even if Fisichella was considered underrated in 2005, Montoya was higher classified than Fisichella, I guess.

Anyway: I guess one of the very few examples whose championship- and non-championship years were equally deserved was DHill. In all those years where he didn't win were absolutely deserved that he didn't win (1994, 1995 and even 1993) and the year where he won nobody deserved it more.

[sennafan24]

Yes, in 2005 Alonso drove great, no doubt about it. I just thought it was more Raikkonen's lost title and given how strong and super fast Montoya was considered and look where he was in 2005, it was impressive what Raikkonen "did" to him (he didn't even become 3rd in the standings). 

Yeah, I see where you are coming from. At the time the public vote went to Kimi (he was voted driver of the year in F1 Racing Magazine). 

[discover23]

Or Alonso: In 2005, the title was more deserved for another driver, yet in years where he didn't win , he deserved them the most (2012).
.

I wouldn't say that . Kimi had a rocket that year for most of the year, one that Alonso could not compete against . He took an early lead in the championship and capitalized on the car failures of Mclaren, that is hardly Alonso's fault.

The last race of the season, in China, when the championship was won, Alonso took a lights to flag win from pole when Renault had maximized the full power of their engine .. They could have done this early on but he had a comfortable lead that they didn't need to..

[Trust]

I wouldn't say that . Kimi had a rocket that year for most of the year, one that Alonso could not compete against . He took an early lead in the championship and capitalized on the car failures of Mclaren, that is hardly Alonso's fault.

The last race of the season, in China, when the championship was won, Alonso took a lights to flag win from pole when Renault had maximized the full power of their engine .. They could have done this early on but he had a comfortable lead that they didn't need to..

 

I wouldn't say that . Kimi had a rocket that year for most of the year, one that Alonso could not compete against . He took an early lead in the championship and capitalized on the car failures of Mclaren, that is hardly Alonso's fault.

The last race of the season, in China, when the championship was won, Alonso took a lights to flag win from pole when Renault had maximized the full power of their engine .. They could have done this early on but he had a comfortable lead that they didn't need to..

In other words, Alonso also could have a rocket in that year, but they've choose not to because of points lead. So Alonso could compete against it if they really want it.

[discover23]

Yes. Because of the early points lead they went with reliability over speed..

Edited by discover23, 11 July 2014 - 11:54.

[noikeee]

I really get fed up of people saying he isn't motivated or 'hungry'.  Where is the evidence for this other than his stroppy media persona?

 

I'm with you on that. If he's not motivated now, well when has he ever looked motivated? Sure he's the kind of guy that always seems like could put in a little more effort off-track, but he's basically been like that forever, even when he used to be successful and looked blindingly quick. It's not as if he has started to behave differently. I'm not sure he even knows what the hell "motivation" means, what do you mean you don't just show up and drive?   

 

The performance has gone down, yes, but I don't see a drop in motivation being necessarily the cause.

[Lone]

I just read Mika Häkkinens comments, in a Finnish newspaper, on what he thinks about Kimi "announcing" his retirement plans. In short he thought it was a very bad idea because it would affect both his and his engineers motivation, and that he risked the whole team focussing on the other driver instead (this is not meant as an excuse in case Kimi continues to loose against Alonso).

What I found to be the most interesting thing in this read was that in the comments section there was someone saying something along the lines of: Kimi does what he wants while the other drivers do what they dare to do.

To me this somehow sums up Kimis whole F1 career/approach, his unwillingness to adapt, and instead do things in his own way, even if it would mean he could risk beeing fired etc.

Edited by Lone, 11 July 2014 - 19:52.

[Balnazzard]

I just read Mika Häkkinens comments, in a Finnish newspaper, on what he thinks about Kimi "announcing" his retirement plans. In short he thought it was a very bad idea because it would affect both his and his engineers motivation, and that he risked the whole team focussing on the other driver instead (this is not meant as an excuse in case Kimi continues to loose against Alonso).

What I found to be the most interesting thing in this read was that in the comments section there was someone saying something along the lines of: Kimi does what he wants while the other drivers do what they dare to do.

To me this somehow sums up Kimis whole F1 career/approach, his unwillingness to adapt, and instead do things in his own way, even if it would mean he could risk beeing fired etc.

 

 

Well again this is what Kimi said after winning the championship in 2007 in Finnish:
 

"Maybe I have different approach to my work than others and sometimes there are not that many people who believe in me and my way of doing things, but it has always worked/paid itself back in the end"

 

And again if in the past other teams have been able to give Kimi what he wants, why cant Ferrari as well, with time? Some ppl say that "Kimi simply has to adapt, because these turbo-era cars are so different, Ferrari isnt able to give Kimi the car he wants", but I say that's bullshit...and once again Kimi first of all doesnt have the time or luxury to adapt entirely different style of driving, especially as Alonso's team-mate and secondly he would never be as fast as he would with his preferable driving style, which requires sharp front end (and right now Ferrari is unable to do that cause they loose the rear of the car if they try to make setup changes with the front). Again for sure its Kimi's weakness, but all the more reason for him to try to make his point clear what he wants from 2015 car...if he would just settle to what they have now and try to learn to drive the car differently, then its guaranteed he would never have any chance against Alonso or winning another championship. The only way forward for him is to work with the team towards different car than what F14T is.

Edited by Balnazzard, 11 July 2014 - 20:06.

[Jovanotti]

Let's just hope he made sure those people who believe in his way of doing things are around at Ferrari this time.

[VolvoT5]

The problem could be that Mercedes are so far ahead that Ferrari cannot catch up until 2016/17 even.  By which time Kimi is talking about retiring or even if he stays on he would be lucky to retain his seat after his current deal runs out. 

 

I hope I'm wrong.  I hope Ferrari deliver an awesome car next year and we get to see the best of Kimi once again, rather than watching his second career ending in a total train wreck after he showed so much promise at Lotus. 

Edited by VolvoT5, 11 July 2014 - 20:28.

[BRG]

I just read Mika Häkkinens comments, in a Finnish newspaper, on what he thinks about Kimi "announcing" his retirement plans. In short he thought it was a very bad idea because it would affect both his and his engineers motivation, and that he risked the whole team focussing on the other driver instead (this is not meant as an excuse in case Kimi continues to loose against Alonso).

Interesting.  It reminds me of 2001 when some were predicting Hakkinen's retirement and all his fans were vehemently denying it.  Mika's loss of motivation was clear (37pts to Coulthard's 65!) but the Mikosi wouldn't have it until the bitter end.  And of course he did retire.

[Lone]

Let's just hope he made sure those people who believe in his way of doing things are around at Ferrari this time.

As a fan of his I too would want him to hang around for some time, but not at the expense of him changing his approach. I believe that Kimi would say; what happens happens. He has his philosophy and I wouldn't wan't him to change that. Whatever happens, in my mind, he's one of the best/most talented drivers in F1 ever. But I don't worry about that because I believe he will show again why he's so special.

He was questioned when he entered F1, he was questioned when he left F1, he was questioned when he came back, he was questioned when he returned to Ferrari and he's questioned now again, and everytime he's come back/shown his detractors wrong, as I believe he'll do again. Talent like his you just can't put down, not before and not now. Kimi will be back at his best, just like controversy will always be around him. That's the story of his career and that's probably what his legacy will be, an extraordinary driver who did things his way with a talent that is second to none.

[superden]

I think that's the nail on the head. Kimi will do as he pleases, and couldn't care less what anyone else thinks. Good on him too.

[jonpollak]

Haven't read.. so apologies if posted already.

Jp