73 replies to this topic

[LORDBYRON]

F1Lite ‏@F1Lite 28m

F1 majority shareholders CVC have reportedly come to a decision to end Bernie Ecclestone's tenure at the top of the sport imminently. #F1

 

http://www.theguardi...rnie-ecclestone

 

Grreat job for wolfe

[pdac]

Big news, if true

[crbassassin]

gREAT nEWS

[GoldenColt]

My prayers have finally come to a happy ending.

[HopkinsonF1]

CVC making the decision is one thing. Bernie rolling over and disappearing is another. At this point I suspect Bernie is so entrenched in the sport that he could run it with no official sanction whatsoever.

Edited by HopkinsonF1, 04 July 2014 - 10:29.

[Risil]

CVC trying to boost F1's value by making a succession plan? Good luck!

 

We haven't heard about Justin King for a while, although Weaver's source indicates that Horner is a bit of a red herring when it comes to being Bernie's successor and that CVC want someone with the requisite "corporate" background.

 

I imagine they'll be a bit more modern than what we've got now and not try to replace Ecclestone with one man. Maybe King in overall control, Horner as a vice president in charge of competition and someone like Zak Brown in charge of marketing. Hopefully they'll get someone from MotoGP's Dorna to do the TV production.

 

There's a question about whether F1 has enough coherence to hold itself together without Bernie's voodoo, although I suspect the fact that it makes money will help.

Edited by Risil, 04 July 2014 - 10:21.

[jjcale]

CVC making the decision is one thing. Bernie rolling over and disappearing is another. At this point I suspect Bernie is so entrenched in the support that he could run it with no official sanction whatsoever.

 

 Sorta like Deng Xiaoping .... in the last few years his only official title was "President of the Natl Bridge Club" ... yet he was running the country. 

[Rinehart]

For this story to come out on the weekend of the BGP suggests that they're expecting a battle to get him out.

[jjcale]

CVC trying to boost F1's value by making a succession plan? Good luck!

 

We haven't heard about Justin King for a while, although Weaver's source indicates that Horner is a bit of a red herring when it comes to being Bernie's successor and that CVC want someone with the requisite "corporate" background.

 

I imagine they'll be a bit more modern than what we've got now and not try to replace Ecclestone with one man. Maybe King in overall control, Horner as a vice president in charge of competition and someone like Zak Brown in charge of marketing.

 

Horner .... because good yes men are hard to find....

[Risil]

Horner .... because good yes men are hard to find....

 

To borrow a phrase from Superintendent Chalmers, he seems to know the kids' names.

Edited by Risil, 04 July 2014 - 10:21.

[Fastcake]

So CVC are planning to sell up, and presumably the new shareholders will be looking for a chief executive with plenty of experience in making money from a sport. Like, for example, one Bernie Ecclestone.

The man is so entrenched in Formula One it's hard to believe he won't still be involved for the rest of eternity.

[KnucklesAgain]

AMuS article from wednesday about F1 sale plans. Have not seen it posted on this board, and I guess doing it in this thread makes sense:

http://www.auto-moto...te-8441250.html

[Shambolic]

Bernie has spent most of this year devaluing F1 - It's hard to see this as accidental. Now CVC are officially selling up, and also trying to remove what they see as a liability.

Why is it I'm thinking Bernie has been undermining F1 so he can once again buy it cheap, continue to lord over it, and then flog it to some greedy "investors".. Again.

[InfectedPsy]

Bernie Ecclestone: The F1 Pathogen.

 

Question is who will replace him for the virus to remain alive, good news or bad news?

[andrewf1]

* Yes! Yes! Yes! That's what I'm talking about, guys! That's what I'm talking about! *

 

   

 

Be gone!

[Ross Stonefeld]

My prayers have finally come to a happy ending.

 

How do we know the replacement will be better? Maybe less crazy ideas but they'll want to squeeze the sport for as much profit as possible for the owners. And they may even be better at it.

[Gareth]

Depends how they go about squeezing the profit.  If one of the ways of doing it is making the sport more accessible, via internet based coverage, then I wouldn't complain.

 

Improved live timing, clip availability online, streaming services etc could all be beneficial for both F1 fans and FOM.

[Petroltorque]

Please God! CVC must be circling the wagons. If they acquired the rights by fraudulent means there will be writs aplenty.

[Brother Fox]

How do we know the replacement will be better? Maybe less crazy ideas but they'll want to squeeze the sport for as much profit as possible for the owners. And they may even be better at it.

Yes.

Hard to think sometimes but Bernie obviously has a passion for Motorsport and look what he's done. Now imagine it gets more corporate and less passionate about F1 and look out.

[maximilian]

Yes.

Hard to think sometimes but Bernie obviously has a passion for Motorsport and look what he's done. Now imagine it gets more corporate and less passionate about F1 and look out.

 

Bernie only has a passion for one thing, and it's not motorsport.

[wrighty]

Yes.

Hard to think sometimes but Bernie obviously has a passion for Motorsport and look what he's done. Now imagine it gets more corporate and less passionate about F1 and look out.

 

yes but so many of the decisions made in F1, from the promotion to the tracks to the social media aspects to the televisual offerings are all so f**king backward as a result of BCE pretty much refusing to acknowledge a problem or have any kind of long term vision that doesnt involve him sitting on a hill of cash at the end of it would at least mean that decision making (including items of governance and the rulebook, for instance) would be done with at least an air of professionalism, and that must be a good thing anyway!

[Risil]

This is a pretty unprecedented development, is it not? Successful racing series moving from personal control to a management team cherrypicked by capitalists?

 

Very hard to make predictions. I know this sort of thing happens in other sports, especially in America, but motor racing isn't like other sports.

 

Getting the distinct feeling that any opposition to the New Lot is going to be led by Toto Wolff though. Or it should be, he talks a hell of a lot more sense than Luca or any of the Brit owners.

Edited by Risil, 04 July 2014 - 11:59.

[JHSingo]

Thank feck if that's true.

 

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Bernie.

[SenorSjon]

Monza vs. Bernie: 1-0

[redreni]

Horner .... because good yes men are hard to find....

 

I think that's unfair. He's more of a "yeah, no, you know" man from what I've seen of his television interviews.

 

In fact, between him and Ron Dennis, it's noticeable that the spoken english of the English team principals is much worse than Kaltenborn's, Boullier's, Wolff's etc. Frank and Clare Williams being the notable exceptions.

 

On the substance of the topic, I don't see what difference it makes. Whoever represents CVC, it's still going to suck money out of the sport.

Edited by redreni, 04 July 2014 - 12:22.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The current owners will still look at how much money Monza generates vs the race that would replace it...

[FredF1]

Hang on. It's the British GP at Silverstone and yet it's Bernie's future that's in doubt? Are we sure this is the right way round?

[Petroltorque]

Anything that brings proper governance to the Sport has got to be a good thing. Commercial decisions based based on one man's distorted reality and the desire to extract maximum value for himself. Like the saying says;' a fish stinks from the head' and there the stench stems all the way back to Mosely hand over the rights to Ecclestone for peanuts.

[Lazy]

How do we know the replacement will be better? Maybe less crazy ideas but they'll want to squeeze the sport for as much profit as possible for the owners. And they may even be better at it.

Depends on their game plan, whether they want to make a quick buck or take a longer term view.

[pdac]

How do we know the replacement will be better? Maybe less crazy ideas but they'll want to squeeze the sport for as much profit as possible for the owners. And they may even be better at it.

 

The thing is that Bernie is very good at what he does - which is to squeeze people for as much money as he can. I'm not sure you will find many people who are as good at that. I personally don't understand how he gets away with it, but he plays chicken with everyone and wins every time.

[Risil]

The thing is that Bernie is very good at what he does - which is to squeeze people for as much money as he can. I'm not sure you will find many people who are as good at that. I personally don't understand how he gets away with it, but he plays chicken with everyone and wins every time.

 

Or rather, when he loses he convinces everyone it wasn't his fault and anyway F1 doesn't need to be at Long Beach it's much nicer here in Dallas in July.

Edited by Risil, 04 July 2014 - 14:06.

[UPRC]

SAVE US, CVC. PLEASE.

[ElDictatore]

People still forget that without him F1 probably wouldn't even have survived that long. Sure he made some questionable stuff but all in all he knows the business and how to get the money for F1 to work. A lot of problems didn't really originate from him. And I don't think CVC is the messiah we're looking for.

Edited by ElDictatore, 04 July 2014 - 14:36.

[LuckyStrike1]

It feels it would be better to get rid of CVC actually. 

[BRG]

People still forget that without him F1 probably wouldn't even have survived that long. 

 

What BS!  Without Bernie (and Mad Max), F1 would have continued as it had done for years before they got their sticky avaricious fingers on it.  Bernie has done NOTHING for F1 and EVERYTHING for himself.

[andrewf1]

People still forget that without him F1 probably wouldn't even have survived that long. Sure he made some questionable stuff but all in all he knows the business and how to get the money for F1 to work. A lot of problems didn't really originate from him. And I don't think CVC is the messiah we're looking for.

 

I think this idea that Bernie is the best at his job is a myth, because the reality in recent years tells quite a different story:

 

- viewing figures are constantly declining, more so since the switch to pay-tv

 

- attendance figures at circuits have been declining for years

 

- european circuits have been abandoned and are always in a struggle to keep up with Bernie's exorbitant fees

 

- new circuits like Turkey, India and Korea have disappeared as fast as they've appeared

 

- internet content and the social media is not efficiently made use of

 

- archived content is not exploited at all

 

- teams are unfairly rewarded at the end of the season

 

- stupid rule proposals such as sprinklers, medals and double points

 

These are all the product of Bernie's reign. He might have made short-term profit for FOM but the man has lost any kind of sustainable vision for the sport.

[pdac]

I think this idea that Bernie is the best at his job is a myth, because the reality in recent years tells quite a different story:

 

- viewing figures are constantly declining, more so since the switch to pay-tv

 

- attendance figures at circuits have been declining for years

 

- european circuits have been abandoned and are always in a struggle to keep up with Bernie's exorbitant fees

 

- new circuits like Turkey, India and Korea have disappeared as fast as they've appeared

 

- internet content and the social media is not efficiently made use of

 

- archived content is not exploited at all

 

- teams are unfairly rewarded at the end of the season

 

- stupid rule proposals such as sprinklers, medals and double points

 

These are all the product of Bernie's reign. He might have made short-term profit for FOM but the man has lost any kind of sustainable vision for the sport.

 

But his job is to increase revenue for the owners and I thought he was doing that

[chunder27]

Some syupid comments here,

 

Bernie is one of the best and most succesful businessmen in the world.

 

The sport has gone from a clubmans sport even in the 80's almost to being able to rival some of the biggest sports worldwide.  Most of that down to Bernie and his ability to wheel and deal and put things together.

 

EVERY single top level business man is the same, all of them have cut corners, annoyed people, done things that seem dubious. It's how business works and ther eason you dont understand it is because you are not a succesful businessman!

 

It will have its ups and downs, every business does. But Bernie I think has done OK, Mosley on the other hand... 

[JHSingo]

It feels it would be better to get rid of CVC actually. 

 

My thoughts exactly. If anything, CVC seems to be part of the problem.

[Ross Stonefeld]

People still forget that without him F1 probably wouldn't even have survived that long. Sure he made some questionable stuff but all in all he knows the business and how to get the money for F1 to work. A lot of problems didn't really originate from him. And I don't think CVC is the messiah we're looking for.

 

I think this is a myth. Bernie didn't invent motorsport, F1, or even televising sports. 

 

What he did do, and thank you for that, was getting the people in the room and streamlining it. Great, thank you Bernie.

 

But. 

 

That's just being a broker. You give a guy a % of the income. He's Formula 1's agent basically. And that commission tends to reduce as time goes on because the deals eventually stand on their own. 

 

If Bernie wanted to continue on in a performance based role and get a % of the deals, whether operating as himself or FOM that'd be fine. But I don't really understand why or how he gets so much control, or even so much credit.

 

What was Weber taking out of Schumacher, 20% I think? And that was considered a very nice deal. Apple gets 30% of app stuff? And there's grumbling about that. Has Bernie/FOM/whoever owns F1 gotten as little as 30%?

[LuckyStrike1]

And of course Bernie is responsible for putting F1 into a situation where it's effectively controlled by CVC - especially since one of the big problems of F1 now is that the current business model just isn't working anymore. 

 

But Bernie will be gone in one way or another soon anyway so whether he's shown the door now, is locked away or finally dies doesn't really matter. Cold as it is to say. 

 

The bigger problem is how the ownership structure of F1 looks and will look like and how the revenue in the sport can be better distributed to ensure a higher quality field. 

[chipmcdonald]

Bernie pretty much single-handedly made F1 as big as it is today.  I would not rush to see him go when a Generic Faceless Corporation is the alternative.

All of the races have been made via Bernie arranged-handshake deals.  CVC should be terrified of the prospect of untangling that and making that continue to work without 1 person calling the shots.

 

In fact, I'm predicting CVC *can't* make it work.   They'll either have to unravel all of the legal agreements already in place, or let them expire and try to replace them on an ala carte basis - and via a bureaucracy.  

 

Bernie has been the tenuous bridge between the sporting side of things and the corporate.  Niki Lauda is the only person with a similar skill set, if he's not made head honcho it's not going to work.   All sides are going to demand more money, and without Bernie playing poker, bluffs will destroy F1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Risil]

I think this is a myth. Bernie didn't invent motorsport, F1, or even televising sports.

 

I figure if Bernie was such a genius sports administrator/businessman, he wouldn't have bought MotoGP, failed to do anything with it, and sold it to Dorna who turned it into a major event.

[Ross Stonefeld]

 

Bernie pretty much single-handedly made F1 as big as it is today.  

 

I think the teams did far more than Bernie did, once it was up and running. Probably the TV networks to. You want an example of someone/something that really grew a sport, go look at what Winston did with the NASCAR series. They really put their muscle behind it. What does Bernie actually do? All of FOM's amazing marketing? 

[Risil]

Paddy McNally/Marlboro?

[chipmcdonald]

Bernie is one of the best and most succesful businessmen in the world.

The sport has gone from a clubmans sport even in the 80's almost to being able to rival some of the biggest sports worldwide.  Most of that down to Bernie and his ability to wheel and deal and put things together.

 

 

 There are a lot of "big businesses" that have been bought out by groups of people expecting to not only continue the company as it stands, but to "improve" it.

 

 I think CVC would have to tear down F1 from bottom to top to make it work (which wouldn't be a bad thing IMO).   People don't realize that despite it being a huge business involving huge amounts, it really hinges on understanding *relationships*.  There probably isn't any other business on the planet that involves so many disparate countries and corporations and business entities.  I maintain that has to be the responsibility of 1 person, not a bureaucracy. 

 

They have to start it over from ground zero, or put Niki in charge - possibly Mateschietz.  Toto can't do it, Justin King I don't believe can do it - the farther you get from the core "family" of F1 the more "corporate" it's really going to look, and the more likely it's going to fail IMO.  Their only chance is to start over as a "business" and hope their plan works.  Without one person holding the power it's just going to be a mess of hundreds of entities suddenly wanting a better deal than they had with Bernie, and no one person able to say "no". 

 

They will fold GP2 into "F1", the corporate view will find that more "reasonable, financially pragmatic" and palatable. 

[chipmcdonald]

I think the teams did far more than Bernie did, once it was up and running. Probably the TV networks to. You want an example of someone/something that really grew a sport, go look at what Winston did with the NASCAR series. They really put their muscle behind it. What does Bernie actually do? All of FOM's amazing marketing? 

 

It's not as simple as that.  How much money flows through NASCAR compared to F1...?

[chipmcdonald]

I figure if Bernie was such a genius sports administrator/businessman, he wouldn't have bought MotoGP, failed to do anything with it, and sold it to Dorna who turned it into a major event.

 

 

Unless your real name is "Warren Buffet" you are probably not in a position to criticize the profitability of Ecclestone's business.

[Option1]

Ross, while I agree for the most part with what you've been saying, I wouldn't under-estimate Bernie's ability in a stare-down.  He repeatedly proved that if you didn't give him the price (and it was always about the money, everything was about the money) he wanted then he would walk.  In the end I think that paid dividends that drove much of F1's value.  At the same time, I think it's also responsible for much of the damage to the sport we're seeing at the moment.

 

Neil

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's not as simple as that.  How much money flows through NASCAR compared to F1...?

 

What's that got to do with it?