94 replies to this topic

[bonjon1979a]

I think Ron Dennis still thinks that Mclaren are a top team. It's pretty insulting how he's behaving towards Button. It's reminiscent of how he played hardball with Hamilton before he went to Mercedes. I think it was Silverstone where he said that Hamilton would have to take a pay cut. Button is a great driver and Mclaren would do well to have a solid driver with reliable feedback for when they get the new engine next year. The way Dennis is behaving they're going to have Magnussen as the lead driver next year. Can't see Alonso going to Mclaren unless he has proof that the Honda engine is a monster. Dennis needs to sort himself out and keep his mouth shut.

[Jejking]

Dennis is not per se a puppet but he is also the voice of the committees behind McLaren. Something to watch out for. The guy definitely isn't senile.

[KnucklesAgain]

I found Jenson's retort quite funny,

 

"I think Ron is practising to be a motivational speaker maybe"

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 04 July 2014 - 10:46.

[bogi]

bring whitmarsh back

[Lazy]

We know that MW was planning to bring Boullier in, I suspect that all "Rons" changes were already planned and set in motion by MW. Ron's big take over was just grandstanding.

[P123]

bring whitmarsh back

 

With hindsight....... no, that didn't work either, although he always had a better relationship with his drivers! 

Edited by P123, 04 July 2014 - 11:07.

[Lights]

Insulting? Well what exactly did he say and what was he asked in that interview.

 

I'm not sure, I think it wasn't bad to give Button a kick under the butt. And for the rest he didn't really say anything about his future.

[teejay]

I think Ron Dennis still thinks that Mclaren are a top team. It's pretty insulting how he's behaving towards Button. It's reminiscent of how he played hardball with Hamilton before he went to Mercedes. I think it was Silverstone where he said that Hamilton would have to take a pay cut. Button is a great driver and Mclaren would do well to have a solid driver with reliable feedback for when they get the new engine next year. The way Dennis is behaving they're going to have Magnussen as the lead driver next year. Can't see Alonso going to Mclaren unless he has proof that the Honda engine is a monster. Dennis needs to sort himself out and keep his mouth shut.

His feedback in 2013 and 14 so far has done amazing things for them. 

[rooksby]

I blame Sam Michael

[LuckyStrike1]

Yup, it must be Sam Michaels fault! 

[Imateria]

His feedback in 2013 and 14 so far has done amazing things for them. 

It seems McLaren have traded the the peeky but inconsistent downforce of last year for a more balanced, consistent car that lacks overall downforce. No amount of feedback is going to fix that, it's pretty clear that McLarens problem is either the technical management not getting the best out of the engineers or a lack of talent in the office.

[Nicktendo86]

I said before the season started that I fee this will be Button's last year in F1, and I stick by that.

[bub]

I think this is a huge over-reaction to a bit of 'motivational speaking' from Dennis.

[Thomas99]

When they're behind Force India they can't be unhappy with drivers of Button and Magnussen's level.

[redreni]

With hindsight....... no, that didn't work either, although he always had a better relationship with his drivers! 

Yeah, he was too nice.

[redreni]

I said before the season started that I fee this will be Button's last year in F1, and I stick by that.

 

Again, I think that's up to him. To my mind he's looked bored at times this season, and I can understand why. He won't want to stay in F1 just to go round and round and get points.

 

But, he would kick himself if he called it a day and then Honda came in and wiped the floor with everyone. So I think he'll do another year if only to see if the engine deal changes anything. He's exceptionally fit and only 35, and I'm sure he wouldn't struggle for motivation if he had a chance to win races, so my guess is he'll do another one or two years minimum. Unless Dennis decides to get rid of him just to prove some sort of point, despite the fact that he's very much Mclaren's best option for next year.

[RubalSher]

Again, I think that's up to him. To my mind he's looked bored at times this season, and I can understand why. He won't want to stay in F1 just to go round and round and get points.

 

Why are you singling out Button for this?

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

McLaren had sometimes a few very bad seasons: 1995/6, 2002/4/6 and now 2013/4. So what? Nothing new. Honda is about to enter and a good aero -guy (Prodromou) from RebBull. Probably a high-calibre driver in 2015 or 2016 (Alonso or Hamilton). If all that doesn''t help, then yes, McLaren will be on the same path as Williams has been from 2004 onwards until now. But only then.

Edited by MetallurgicalHedonist, 04 July 2014 - 13:15.

[mclarensmps]

Yes, this definitely deserves it's own topic 

 

I think Ron Dennis still thinks that Mclaren are a top team. It's pretty insulting how he's behaving towards Button. It's reminiscent of how he played hardball with Hamilton before he went to Mercedes. I think it was Silverstone where he said that Hamilton would have to take a pay cut. Button is a great driver and Mclaren would do well to have a solid driver with reliable feedback for when they get the new engine next year. The way Dennis is behaving they're going to have Magnussen as the lead driver next year. Can't see Alonso going to Mclaren unless he has proof that the Honda engine is a monster. Dennis needs to sort himself out and keep his mouth shut.

 

Yeah, his solid and reliable feedback has done absolutely wonders for McLaren. 

 

I remember when he said something along the lines of this last year: I've had a lot of input in the direction this car has taken (the 28), and I'm very excited for the start of the season. I urge you to read the things Button has said about the last few cars McLaren has had before season start, and during the season. Then come back and read what you've written and see how ridiculous it sounds.

 

I'm not saying it's his fault that the cars have been bad. I'm saying he's had a habit of contradicting himself while at McLaren, and this reliable feedback bs is a myth.

 

Ron Dennis basically is McLaren. He can say what he wants about the drivers. He may not be correct (in fact he was very wrong prior to the start of this season), but that doesn't make him deluded as you say. 

 

I take it you've never taken any criticism in your sheltered professional career? I'm gonna bet that Jenson's not losing any sleep over this. 

[kraduk]

Again, I think that's up to him. To my mind he's looked bored at times this season, and I can understand why. He won't want to stay in F1 just to go round and round and get points.

 

But, he would kick himself if he called it a day and then Honda came in and wiped the floor with everyone. So I think he'll do another year if only to see if the engine deal changes anything. He's exceptionally fit and only 35, and I'm sure he wouldn't struggle for motivation if he had a chance to win races, so my guess is he'll do another one or two years minimum. Unless Dennis decides to get rid of him just to prove some sort of point, despite the fact that he's very much Mclaren's best option for next year.

 

it would be a good gamble for hulkenberg if he had the chance

[BARHonda006]

Jonathan Neale just called Ron's "motivational speech" as chip paper.

[ElDictatore]

You're just making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Force Ten]

it would be a good gamble for hulkenberg if he had the chance

Nico Hulkenberg's stats in Formula One:

Races 66 (65 starts)
Championships 0
Wins 0
Podiums 0

Just sayin'.

Edited by Force Ten, 04 July 2014 - 14:33.

[mclarensmps]

He's also not exactly wiping the floor with Perez...

[bogi]

I think people will find stone tablet somewhere with ''Hulkemberk should race for McLaren'' inscribed.

[MikeV1987]

He's also not exactly wiping the floor with Perez...

hulk - 59

perez - 28

 

id say hes doing the job-

[AlmightyGod]

I am baffled by some of the comments here. If Hulkenberg was this huge talent, why haven't any of the big teams snatched him?. Do you guys have access to more information than team principals and paddock personnel?

Edited by AlmightyGod, 04 July 2014 - 15:01.

[LuckyStrike1]

I am baffled by some of the comments here. If Hulkenberg was this huge talent, why hasn't the big teams snatched him?. Do you guys have access to more information than team principals and paddock personnel?

 

 

It's more or less confirmed that McLaren turned him down because he was felt to be too tall and heavy. 

 

He had a contract ready to sign from Ferrari until the whole Alonso gone - Kimi available saga started. 

 

There really hasn't been a place available at Red Bull. 

 

The same goes for Mercedes who btw wasn't much of a top team until perhaps last year. 

 

So I think it's fair to say he is and has been on top teams radar but timing just hasn't worked. 

 

Don't forget that drivers such as Häkkinen, Mansell and Button had to wait a long, long time for getting into a winning car and in Mansells case championship winning car. 

[mclarensmps]

hulk - 59

perez - 28

 

id say hes doing the job-

Sure, I won't argue with you, but I will stand by my statement. 

[MikeV1987]

I am baffled by some of the comments here. If Hulkenberg was this huge talent, why haven't any of the big teams snatched him?. Do you guys have access to more information than team principals and paddock personnel?

I'm still baffled as to why they picked up Perez as if he is this huge talent.

[AlmightyGod]

It's more or less confirmed that McLaren turned him down because he was felt to be too tall and heavy. 

 

He had a contract ready to sign from Ferrari until the whole Alonso gone - Kimi available saga started. 

 

There really hasn't been a place available at Red Bull. 

 

The same goes for Mercedes who btw wasn't much of a top team until perhaps last year. 

 

So I think it's fair to say he is and has been on top teams radar but timing just hasn't worked. 

 

Don't forget that drivers such as Häkkinen, Mansell and Button had to wait a long, long time for getting into a winning car and in Mansells case championship winning car. 

You need to show/link some official documentation confirming this statement. Too tall and heavy is not a major excuse, if he was such an amazing driver they would sign him, besides, he could work hard and loose a few pounds like button and webber. Redbull was managed with webber, why couldn't Mclaren?. Perez has been a good match for him this season so far.

[superden]

Blaming the driver for the current state of affairs is both insulting and simplistic. McLaren's problems originate long before the drivers step into the cars. Multiple drivers have been and gone and their situation hasn't improved one jot. It's easy to slide into 'pilot error' mode, when the problem is at best, hard to solve and worst, not even entirely identified. The driver is merely the end user of a substandard product, their feedback can only tell you what isn't working. You need to look a lot deeper in order to rectify the issue and its underlying cause.

Edited by superden, 04 July 2014 - 15:21.

[AlmightyGod]

I'm still baffled as to why they picked up Perez as if he is this huge talent.

Hold on. Not that many people were banging on about Perez, seriously, I lost count of how many times I have seen comments with people talking about the height of Hulkenberg's talents.

[bub]

 

I am baffled by some of the comments here. If Hulkenberg was this huge talent, why haven't any of the big teams snatched him?. Do you guys have access to more information than team principals and paddock personnel?

 

If McLaren were looking to replace Button, I think Hulk would be a good, youngish, realistic choice. He could turn out to be as good as Jenson.

[LuckyStrike1]

You need to show/link some official documentation confirming this statement. Too tall and heavy is not a major excuse, if he was such an amazing driver they would sign him, besides, he could work hard and loose a few pounds like button and webber. Redbull was managed with webber, why couldn't Mclaren?. Perez has been a good match for him this season so far.

 

 

No I don't really need to show that actually. This is an internet forum mate, you can just chose to believe I'm full of **** with that statement. 

 

I've stated what I believe is to be true out of recollection of news reports on sites such as Autosport and podcasts such as Chequered flag and Autosport and several more. 

[MikeV1987]

You need to show/link some official documentation confirming this statement. Too tall and heavy is not a major excuse, if he was such an amazing driver they would sign him, besides, he could work hard and loose a few pounds like button and webber. Redbull was managed with webber, why couldn't Mclaren?. Perez has been a good match for him this season so far.

hulk was kimis direct competitor for that seat.apparently Ferrari even paid hulks salary at sauber to stop him from replacing kimi at lotus for the 2 final races of 2013.

Edited by MikeV1987, 04 July 2014 - 15:27.

[AlmightyGod]

No I don't really need to show that actually. This is an internet forum mate, you can just chose to believe I'm full of **** with that statement.

 

I've stated what I believe is to be true out of recollection of news reports on sites such as Autosport and podcasts such as Chequered flag and Autosport and several more. 

So hearsay then

[AlmightyGod]

hulk was kimis direct competitor for that seat.apparently Ferrari even paid hulks salary at sauber to stop him from replacing kimi at lotus for the 2 final races of 2013.

Why do you continue to make baseless claims?. Assuming you have official information or a quote by a member of the Ferrari camp, you should produce it. 

[LuckyStrike1]

So hearsay then

 

 

No I have the contract in front of me now. Nico sent it to me, or a copy actually. He got to keep the original as a memory. I got a copy. It was nice of him. 

 

Had no idea his company was named Speedfreak Gmbh though. 

[MikeV1987]

Blaming the driver for the current state of affairs is both insulting and simplistic. McLaren's problems originate long before the drivers step into the cars. Multiple drivers have been and gone and their situation hasn't improved one jot. It's easy to slide into 'pilot error' mode, when the problem is at best, hard to solve and worst, not even entirely identified. The driver is merely the end user of a substandard product, their feedback can only tell you what isn't working. You need to look a lot deeper in order to rectify the issue and its underlying cause.

out of all the big teams,mclaren has the weakest driver line up, that is one of their main weaknesses as a team.

[Nemo1965]

 

 

 

If McLaren were looking to replace Button, I think Hulk would be a good, youngish, realistic choice. He could turn out to be as good as Jenson.

 

 

Hulkenburg is probably the only young driver who I think would be as good as Button. The problem is: I am not sure. I am sure though that the driver as good as Button is... Button. So why take the risk?

 

Never the less, if Button would feel that McLaren/Dennis don't really want or appreciate him, he should get out. Out of F1 or out of McLaren. Button is just too good to be treated as a token driver.

[MikeV1987]

Why do you continue to make baseless claims?. Assuming you have official information or a quote by a member of the Ferrari camp, you should produce it. 

\ i am posting from my phone so its not easy to find every link but... http://lmgtfy.com/?q...berg to ferrari

[bub]

Hulkenburg is probably the only young driver who I think would be as good as Button. The problem is: I am not sure. I am sure though that the driver as good as Button is... Button. So why take the risk?

 

Never the less, if Button would feel that McLaren/Dennis don't really want or appreciate him, he should get out. Out of F1 or out of McLaren. Button is just too good to be treated as a token driver.

 

I agree, I wouldn't take the risk either. I would want to keep Button for a few years and keep an eye on guys like Magnussen, Vandoorne, Bottas, Bianchi etc as potential long term replacements or even someone like Vettel if they can get back to winning ways. However if for instance McLaren wanted to replace Button with someone younger at the end of his current contract because they thought his performance level might start to drop soon due to his age, I think Hulk would be a good choice. I personally wouldn't drop Button for Hulkenberg but I could see why McLaren might.

Edited by bub, 04 July 2014 - 16:17.

[Ferrari2183]

So hearsay then

No, Ferrari had a contract ready for Hulkenberg to sign around the Hungarian GP only for Kimi to become available due to the pay dispute with Lotus.

There were mumblings that Ferrari informed Hulks management team about the decision to sign Kimi instead via SMS.

The stories were all over the internet and yes, it is believed that Ferrari paid Hulkenberg's salary as not to drive for Lotus the last few races.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 04 July 2014 - 16:12.

[Lotus53B]

If you think Ron's bad, you'd better avoid his brother, Reggie Dennis...

[RuleyRamundo]

Ferrari2183, on 04 Jul 2014 - 17:10, said:Ferrari2183, on 04 Jul 2014 - 17:10, said:Ferrari2183, on 04 Jul 2014 - 17:10, said:

No, Ferrari had a contract ready for Hulkenberg to sign around the Hungarian GP only for Kimi to become available due to the pay dispute with Lotus.

There were mumblings that Ferrari informed Hulks management team about the decision to sign Kimi instead via SMS.

The stories were all over the internet and yes, it is believed that Ferrari paid Hulkenberg's salary as not to drive for Lotus the last few races

 

Sneak them Ferrari's

Edited by RuleyRamundo, 04 July 2014 - 16:45.

[Jamiednm]

out of all the big teams,mclaren has the weakest driver line up, that is one of their main weaknesses as a team.

I disagree. The car is their main weakness - so that goes deeper in to the organisation. If they produced a competitive car, JB at least would be competing.

Ever since 2009, McLaren cars have been fatally flawed in some way. This is just a continuation of that poor form.

[redreni]

out of all the big teams,mclaren has the weakest driver line up, that is one of their main weaknesses as a team.

 

They have one driver who, last time we checked, was more or less Hamilton's equal, and the second driver seems to be giving the first a reasonable run for his money. If I were Ron I'd be looking at why the car isn't as good as Force India's or Williams' first before I worried too much about those two drivers.

[MikeV1987]

They have one driver who, last time we checked, was more or less Hamilton's equal, and the second driver seems to be giving the first a reasonable run for his money. If I were Ron I'd be looking at why the car isn't as good as Force India's or Williams' first before I worried too much about those two drivers.

 

button more or less hamiltons equal? whaaaaaaaaa?

[William Hunt]

they have a strong driver line-up with Button & Magnussen, they should keep them and stop blaming the drivers when the car sucks