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Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part IV


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#1 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:37

Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part I

Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part II

Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part III

 

 

1a6tp9s.jpg

 

 

fernan.jpg

 

 

 

Please be respectful with both drivers and their respective supporters.


Edited by kosmos, 27 July 2014 - 14:25.


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#2 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:48

:up: Loved the new pictures!



#3 Ncedi

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:08

Very cool new pictures, could be each sides fan's faces too when reading the others posts  :lol:


Edited by Ncedi, 09 July 2014 - 12:21.


#4 Gorma

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:15

Great pictures!



#5 RonnyRonny

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:29

So 1 more race ahead of Kimi and Alonso wins the season battle.

#6 kissTheApex

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:34

:up: Loved the new pictures!

The car definitely deserves the double face palm :rolleyes:



#7 TurboF1

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 13:40

Let the slaughter continue. I always figured Fernando would beat Kimi, I just never thought it would be THIS bad. I was thinking the race finishes would be 12-7 or something like that over the season, but Kimi just can't do the business with the car. Sure, the car's a bit of a turd nugget, but still, you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.



#8 RAGE12463

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:05

Let the slaughter continue. I always figured Fernando would beat Kimi, I just never thought it would be THIS bad. I was thinking the race finishes would be 12-7 or something like that over the season, but Kimi just can't do the business with the car. Sure, the car's a bit of a turd nugget, but still, you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.

no. The design engineers, PU engineers, the race engineers, mechanics, and other people in the garage need to figure out and give him a car that fits his operating window. Great drivers need a car to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.



#9 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:10

 Great drivers don't need a car to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.

 

Fixed that for you if you don't mind :wave:



#10 Cesc

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:11

no. The design engineers, PU engineers, the race engineers, mechanics, and other people in the garage need to figure out and give him a car that fits his operating window. Great drivers need a car to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.

 

When you have a balance of 9-0 and 87-19 points with your team mate, there are reasonable doubts about where this "operating window" is or if still exists. Everyone in the grid wants a car that suits them to perform optimally in thier "operating windows"....



#11 TurboF1

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:18

no. The design engineers, PU engineers, the race engineers, mechanics, and other people in the garage need to figure out and give him a car that fits his operating window. Great drivers need a car to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.

 

Couldnt be more wrong. Fernando is a true "great driver". Theyve given him all different manners of cars and he's gotten results with all of them. Great drivers adapt. Adapt. Obviously Fred has, Kimi must do the same.



#12 arnoldpredator

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:23

http://www.planetf1....eded-by-Ferrari

 

I was right. :rotfl:  Bianchi is not testing due to his fantastic feedback, it is just to substitue Kimi in case he can't drive.



#13 wj_gibson

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:23

Fixed that for you if you don't mind :wave:

 

Exactly. The truly great drivers drag awful cars to places they don't belong. They all did it - Senna, Schumacher, Fangio and the only reason Clark didn't was becuase he never had to drive one. Alonso does it and Kimi doesn't (or at least nowhere near as often).



#14 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:34

no. The design engineers, PU engineers, the race engineers, mechanics, and other people in the garage need to figure out and give him a car that fits his operating window. Great drivers need a car to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.

Mediocre drivers, lousy drivers and my granny need their cars to be 100% to their liking for them to perform.

 

If the guy has "the best car evah", best suited for him, and the others don't, then where's the greatness?. And please, spare me the "no, if everybody has the car that suits them best, he will be the fastest" or any other variation of that because, frankly, that is utter imaginary rubbish made out of wishful thinking.

 

Everybody in each side of a garage has a responsibility over the performance of the driver car combination. The driver among them and in a major proportion. 


Edited by NoSanityClause, 09 July 2014 - 14:34.


#15 dreamer

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 14:49



Interview starts at 3:40


Edited by dreamer, 09 July 2014 - 14:50.


#16 xmoonrakerx

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 15:07

Fixed that for you if you don't mind :wave:


Problems handling sarcasm kosmos?

#17 kosmos

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 15:21

Problems handling sarcasm kosmos?

 

 

He was answering to someone who said "you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.", so I don't know if it was sarcasm, other people has responded in the same way I did, I'm not the only one, but he is free to correct me, I don't mind  ;)

 

 

 

Strong opinion about Kimi by  Darren Heath

 

http://www.darrenhea...g/finn-finished


Edited by kosmos, 09 July 2014 - 15:44.


#18 Cyanide

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 15:50

He was answering to someone who said "you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.", so I don't know if it was sarcasm, other people has responded in the same way I did, I'm not the only one, but he is free to correct me, I don't mind  ;)

 

 

 

Strong opinion about Kimi by  Darren Heath

 

http://www.darrenhea...g/finn-finished

 

Sad to see articles such as these surface. 

 

It shows people are ready to bury a sick body, but one that's far from dead yet. 



#19 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 15:54


 

Strong opinion about Kimi by  Darren Heath

 

http://www.darrenhea...g/finn-finished

 

Not a bad read.  Couldn't agree more that Kimi looks nothing like his previous self this year.

 


I truly believe that on his day, and if he could be bothered, Kimi was capable of winning just about anywhere, in any car. Ask the guys who worked with him at McLaren. They’ll tell you a similar story.

 

PS., I thought it was obviously sarcastic post, not something a Kimi fan would post (by RAGE12463).


Edited by Menace, 09 July 2014 - 15:55.


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#20 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:00

Sad to see articles such as these surface. 

 

It shows people are ready to bury a sick body, but one that's far from dead yet. 

 

It's not pretty, but it is what it is. 

 

Kimi needs to desperately get back up to speed, it's a bit embarrassing.  His pace seemed to get better early on in the season, but now this has really turned out to be a disaster.

 

Yes, he was ahead of Alonso when he crashed in Silverstone... but the scoreboard is depressing no matter the few glimpses of the old Iceman.  :well:  Maybe getting a new chassis will help a little, if for no other reason than subconsciously.  I'm certain Kimi has been quite baffled how the setup changes on his F14T seem to be all over the place with no consistency.



#21 Cyanide

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:05

It's not pretty, but it is what it is. 

 

Kimi needs to desperately get back up to speed, it's a bit embarrassing.  His pace seemed to get better early on in the season, but now this has really turned out to be a disaster.

 

Yes, he was ahead of Alonso when he crashed in Silverstone... but the scoreboard is depressing no matter the few glimpses of the old Iceman.  :well:  Maybe getting a new chassis will help a little, if for no other reason then subconsciously.  I'm certain Kimi has been quite baffled how the setup changes on his F14T seem to be all over the place with no consistency.

 

He looks the way he looks this year. A supporter swallows and endures through the tough times. I'm embarrassed myself of his performance but I won't lose faith that he will turn things around eventually. 

 

As for the media, it's just the way it works - as soon as a driver enters a difficult period, the vultures are out and they draw more blood the moment they see the first drop. It was no different when Fernando showed the slightest signs of rustiness in 2013 when Massa outqualified him a few times. 

 

These articles will keep coming unless Kimi ups his game, whether you give in to the media brainwashing is entirely up to you. I, for one, will not let myself be manipulated by these doombringer headlines, no matter how true they are. 



#22 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:09

He looks the way he looks this year. A supporter swallows and endures through the tough times. I'm embarrassed myself of his performance but I won't lose faith that he will turn things around eventually. 

 

As for the media, it's just the way it works - as soon as a driver enters a difficult period, the vultures are out and they draw more blood the moment they see the first drop. It was no different when Fernando showed the slightest signs of rustiness in 2013 when Massa outqualified him a few times. 

 

These articles will keep coming unless Kimi ups his game, whether you give in to the media brainwashing is entirely up to you. I, for one, will not let myself be manipulated by these doombringer headlines, no matter how true they are. 

Indeed.



#23 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:10

He looks the way he looks this year. A supporter swallows and endures through the tough times. I'm embarrassed myself of his performance but I won't lose faith that he will turn things around eventually. 

 

As for the media, it's just the way it works - as soon as a driver enters a difficult period, the vultures are out and they draw more blood the moment they see the first drop. It was no different when Fernando showed the slightest signs of rustiness in 2013 when Massa outqualified him a few times. 

 

These articles will keep coming unless Kimi ups his game, whether you give in to the media brainwashing is entirely up to you. I, for one, will not let myself be manipulated by these doombringer headlines, no matter how true they are. 

 

I don't think I'm being manipulated when I simply agree with some of the things he wrote.

 

I don't think Kimi needs to retire, but he needs to up his game no matter the car.  I have full faith he can and will do that.



#24 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:12

What I do find laughable is those people relishing on Kimi's bad performances, and trying to re-write his racing history based on the current struggles.  :rotfl:



#25 Alexandros

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:17

Exactly. The truly great drivers drag awful cars to places they don't belong. They all did it - Senna, Schumacher, Fangio and the only reason Clark didn't was becuase he never had to drive one. Alonso does it and Kimi doesn't (or at least nowhere near as often).

 

If you go down that route, then you conveniently forget what Kimi did with MP4/17D which was #3 in terms of speed after Ferrari and Williams and in some GPs even slower than the Renaults.

 

Nobody has done something similar in F1 for the last 20+ years, essentially having the highest points per finish with such a car that was provably inferior (chassis designed in mid-2001 and intended to run for 2002, bulky / heavy, engine at 72deg with high center of gravity compared to the opposition running 90deg engines etc).



#26 wj_gibson

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:42

If you go down that route, then you conveniently forget what Kimi did with MP4/17D which was #3 in terms of speed after Ferrari and Williams and in some GPs even slower than the Renaults.

 

Nobody has done something similar in F1 for the last 20+ years, essentially having the highest points per finish with such a car that was provably inferior (chassis designed in mid-2001 and intended to run for 2002, bulky / heavy, engine at 72deg with high center of gravity compared to the opposition running 90deg engines etc).

 

Irrespective of what I may or may not think of the 2003 season (one-lap qualifying, no parc ferme amends to cars after years of running bespoke race set-ups, and all the rest), I find it interesting that you have to go back 11 years to find an example.

Whereas one can go back less than 11 days to find an example of Alonso excelling in a poor car.

I always thought Alonso had a better '03 than Kimi anyway.


Edited by wj_gibson, 09 July 2014 - 16:47.


#27 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 16:43

If you go down that route, then you conveniently forget what Kimi did with MP4/17D which was #3 in terms of speed after Ferrari and Williams and in some GPs even slower than the Renaults.

 

Nobody has done something similar in F1 for the last 20+ years, essentially having the highest points per finish with such a car that was provably inferior (chassis designed in mid-2001 and intended to run for 2002, bulky / heavy, engine at 72deg with high center of gravity compared to the opposition running 90deg engines etc).

Au contraire. Having to go back to 2003 quite proves wj_gibson's assertion that Kimi does not do perform like that "near as often"



#28 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:08

How about 2009? 



#29 wj_gibson

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:14

In the second half of the year, OK, he had that run from Hungary through to Monza where he was never off the podium. But that was about it, and he was paired with Badoer for much of that time. How would Massa have fared in those races without the Hungaroring accident? We'll never know.



#30 Cyanide

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:31

Bianchi topping the test today is of no help to Kimi's case either. 



#31 motorhead

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:42

Bianchi topping the test today is of no help to Kimi's case either. 

 

What this got to do with Kimi´s situation? Is Ferrari better than Mercedes now becouse of topping the time sheets in that test?



#32 Cyanide

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:43

What this got to do with Kimi´s situation? Is Ferrari better than Mercedes now becouse of topping the time sheets in that test?

 

No. It just shows Bianchi is no slouch and can actually drive that car. [in case, you know, Kimi doesn't improve in the second half of the season]



#33 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:44

Bianchi topping the test today is of no help to Kimi's case either. 

He was just .02s shy of Alonso's best time at Silverstone as well. That kid scares me! :)

 

And all that with less testing mileage, not being as acquainted with his crew, in a car that was not designed aroun him etc., etc. :p



#34 discover23

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 17:57

I always thought Alonso had a better '03 than Kimi anyway.


Agree 100%. In retrospect I know now why kimi was so hyped right from the start of his career.. I only need to go back and watch those races broadcast by ITV or BBC to know how much underserved praise Kimi he got from those commentators when In reality the better racers and more impressive drivers were Montoya and Alonso. I had Speedchannel back then with Varsha and Hobbs doing the commentary and the main driver they admired back then was the young Alonso.. Making the prediction, that early, that he would be one of the true greats of Formula 1..
The Silverstone GP in 2003 is a good example.. All they focused on that race was DC and Kimi .., they completely ignored that Rubens and Montoya were charging through the field, the latter they did not even mention almost until the last lap and that was because he was chasing Kimi hard and Kimi then makes a mistake and runs wide, for a second time, and loses the position.
Kimi has always been a top 5 driver but this fastest/best driver myth was IMO pure fabrication..

#35 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:03

@Alexandros wrote in Part III

 

Do we seriously have to argue about that?

 

Let's put it this way: In 2007 he actually took the WDC by trailing it 18 points (something like 40-45pts deficit with the new point system) and being 4th at the driver rankings, after the 10th round (out of 17) when he DNF'ed.

 

In 2012 he "peaked" at Spa (12th round) in terms of realistic chances for the title after the misfortunes of others. At that point he was 33 points from the leader (Alonso). 

 

In 2013 he was much closer at the start, but mid-season the gap opened considerably (and went to RBR-dominance mode after the tire changes)

 

1 GP into 2013, Kimi leads the WDC

3 GPs into 2013, Kimi trails Vettel by 3 points (52 vs 49)

5 GPs into 2013, Kimi trails Vettel by 5 points (89 Vettel / 85 Kimi).

7 GPs into 2013, the score opens to 44 points after bad results in Monaco and Canada (Kimi drops from runner up to 3rd)

9 GPs into 2013, the gap is at 41 points (Kimi 3rd) - and it goes downhill from some point afterwards. Kimi retained 3rd for as long as he was competing though, before going for surgery.

 

Don't get me wrong, Kimi drove some great races in 2012 and 2013, but these results are not "battling for the WDC" by any means. One could say he looked like he could be in the battle in the first third of the season, but alas, he was not.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 09 July 2014 - 19:53.


#36 OO7

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:04

Let the slaughter continue. I always figured Fernando would beat Kimi, I just never thought it would be THIS bad. I was thinking the race finishes would be 12-7 or something like that over the season, but Kimi just can't do the business with the car. Sure, the car's a bit of a turd nugget, but still, you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.

It thought the same, I also thought it would be convincing, but nothing on this scale.  From Kimi's first season at Ferrari I started to doubt his ability, not to say he isn't talented but I think the 2005 McLaren in particular flattered him.



#37 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:05

Agree 100%. In retrospect I know now why kimi was so hyped right from the start of his career.. I only need to go back and watch those races broadcast by ITV or BBC to know how much underserved praise Kimi he got from those commentators when In reality the better racers and more impressive drivers were Montoya and Alonso. I had Speedchannel back then with Varsha and Hobbs doing the commentary and the main driver they admired back then was the young Alonso.. Making the prediction, that early, that he would be one of the true greats of Formula 1..
The Silverstone GP in 2003 is a good example.. All they focused on that race was DC and Kimi .., they completely ignored that Rubens and Montoya were charging through the field, the latter they did not even mention almost until the last lap and that was because he was chasing Kimi hard and Kimi then makes a mistake and runs wide, for a second time, and loses the position.
Kimi has always been a top 5 driver but this fastest/best driver myth was IMO pure fabrication..

Yeah right...



#38 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:06

It thought the same, I also thought it would be convincing, but nothing on this scale.  From Kimi's first season at Ferrari I started to doubt his ability, not to say he isn't talented but I think the 2005 McLaren in particular flattered him.

mclaren and michelin tyres were perfect match for Kimi's driving style and that's why he was brilliant back then.


Edited by Vesuvius, 09 July 2014 - 18:10.


#39 Vesuvius

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:09

Bianchi topping the test today is of no help to Kimi's case either. 

it's easy to be fastest on tests, Bianchi did a one fast lap but before that his fastest time was above 1,37...on tests you can also use whatever tyres you choose and track was now in better condition than on race weekend.



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#40 discover23

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:11

It thought the same, I also thought it would be convincing, but nothing on this scale. From Kimi's first season at Ferrari I started to doubt his ability, not to say he isn't talented but I think the 2005 McLaren in particular flattered him.

Yep. Specially with all of that rep and his extraordinary salary when he joined Ferrari, he was supposed to trash Massa, just like Alonso did in 2010, but that never happened. They were almost neck and neck up until Monza.

#41 as65p

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:12

He was just .02s shy of Alonso's best time at Silverstone as well. That kid scares me! :)

 

And all that with less testing mileage, not being as acquainted with his crew, in a car that was not designed aroun him etc., etc. :p

 

I view that time of Bianchi a bit differently. In truth, it's damn easy for a team to make a driver go fast in testing, any driver really. I wouldn't be worried by Bianchi doing that time but rather ask why he was set up by the team to go that fast. You can easily see from the times of Hamilton or Bottas that normally teams don't go for times during such tests.

 

IOW, I find it a bit suspicious that Ferrari allows Bianchi to make headlines, or maybe I'm a bit paranoid here.



#42 discover23

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:17

Here is what will happen.. Kimi may not be fit for this weekend.. And they put Bianchi.. The youngster impresses during the race and runs very close to Alonso..
Conspiracist would emerge saying it was all a setup to Kick Kimi out and Alonso didn't perform 100% .

#43 artista

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:23

Guys, back to 2014, please



#44 Vinsin

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 18:52

He was just .02s shy of Alonso's best time at Silverstone as well. That kid scares me! :)

And all that with less testing mileage, not being as acquainted with his crew, in a car that was not designed aroun him etc., etc. :p

wow, if that's the case, Alonso is in trouble!

Without all that and within 1 day in the F14T, Bianchi manages to be close to Ferrari's No.1 Driver on $30 Million a year. Says a lot about Alonso's pace.

Bianchi would be cheap as hell. Why do they need Alonso when they can stick Bianchi in there, who with more time, will in fact overcome Alonso's time.

Edited by Vinsin, 09 July 2014 - 18:54.


#45 xmoonrakerx

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:03

Here is what will happen.. Kimi may not be fit for this weekend.. And they put Bianchi.. The youngster impresses during the race and runs very close to Alonso..
Conspiracist would emerge saying it was all a setup to Kick Kimi out and Alonso didn't perform 100% .


You are the only one thinking this imo

#46 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:14

Here is what will happen..

:rotfl:



#47 Astro

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:16

He was answering to someone who said "you're KIMI RAIKKONEN. Get on with it.", so I don't know if it was sarcasm, other people has responded in the same way I did, I'm not the only one, but he is free to correct me, I don't mind  ;)

 

 

 

Strong opinion about Kimi by  Darren Heath

 

http://www.darrenhea...g/finn-finished

 

"Following the death of Ayrton Senna in 1994...

Michael-Schumacher-celebr-001.jpg

 

... I didn’t care for any grand prix driver, and then there was Kimi"



#48 Menace

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:18

"care" being the imperative word there.   ;)



#49 Radion

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:19

He was just .02s shy of Alonso's best time at Silverstone as well. That kid scares me! :)

 

And all that with less testing mileage, not being as acquainted with his crew, in a car that was not designed aroun him etc., etc. :p

I think alonso should be the one scared in that case.   ;) 



#50 xmoonrakerx

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 19:54

I think alonso should be the one scared in that case.  ;)


I fail to see the why