120 replies to this topic

[robefc]

I read a couple of headlines on twitter about Montezemolo whining about the rules again and felt a similar sense of irritation re: Ferrari, Montezemolo and indeed the horse whisperer. I'm not sure if I have a fair sense of perspective having come into the sport as a Lewis fan in 2007 (and therefore having even half a mclaren fan for 6 years) but the combination of their privileged position in the sport, their self regard and their seemingly constant complaints really gets my goat.

I was wondering to myself how others, particularly Ferrari fans, might view this sort of thing and then Iread this article by Joe Saward which seemed to articulate everything I was thinking.

http://wp.me/ppB1o-3Qv

So as I say, I'd be very interested in views on Montezemolo's latest complaints and his/Ferrari's attitude in general, particularly from fans of the prancing horse.

Cheers
Rob

Edited by robefc, 15 July 2014 - 08:51.

[teejay]

Ferrari want v12 powered cars wit no fric, unlimited testing, crazy fuel, no tyres that potentially don't suit their car, minimal aero and any rules surrounding barge boards to not apply to them whilst getting veto on any rules, more money than anyone else and the ability to run 9 car teams.

 

Fair request, because historic

[Anderis]

I agree with every single sentence in this Saward's article.

 

Ferrari was in my top3 favourite teams in 2007/2008, but since then, they've become the most disliked one with comfortable margin despite the fact they're not winning the titles anymore! And it's for reasons mostly explained in this article.

[Lazy]

Spot on Rob, too many of the old guard still playing their silly games. LdM, Dennis, Bernie, they all need to go and let more sophisticated minds take over.

The 100 year lease should be revoked, a professional organisation set up to run it with fair distribution of income to teams and tracks.

Good to see you Rob

[f1RacingForever]

I think he's frustrated by the lack of engine development which is hurting Ferrari badly right now. Simply increasing the size of their turbo would do wonders and would be inexpensive yet the team is stuck with what they got. Completely understandable and im sure Certain renault teams Feel the same way. People are unhappy, they complain. Really it would be worse if he didn't complain as looking out for the teams best interests in part of his job as it is for any team president

[f1RacingForever]

Ferrari want v12 powered cars wit no fric, unlimited testing, crazy fuel, no tyres that potentially don't suit their car, minimal aero and any rules surrounding barge boards to not apply to them whilst getting veto on any rules, more money than anyone else and the ability to run 9 car teams.

Fair request, because historic

Anything to have a go at Ferrari eh? At least Lucia's complains have merit.

[Anderis]

I think he's frustrated by the lack of engine development which is hurting Ferrari badly right now.

I think he's frustrated each time his opponents are doing better job, which is pretty much always and that makes him a frustrated man simply.

 

With their reputation, veto rights and $120m per year not dependent on results bonus, they have simply no valid excuse for not winning in so heavily money-dependent F1 as it is right now.

[rhukkas]

I think when more 'sophisticated' minds take over you'll be shocked at F1's rapid decline.

[f1RacingForever]

I think he's frustrated each time his opponents are doing better job, which is pretty much always and that makes him a frustrated man simply.

With their reputation, veto rights and $120m per year not dependent on results bonus, they have simply no valid excuse for not winning in so heavily money-dependent F1 as it is right now.

Do you see any excuses? The guy is simply doing hid job looking out for what is good for the team. I would say the same if it was coming from ron , mateschitz of whoever. Bashing Ferrari is the cool thing to do. I get it

[chunder27]

Let's be honest, if it was your business and you knoew how intertwined your company was with F1 and how much they adored you.

 

You woudl do exactly the same.

 

No-one likes it, but he will get his way somehow, like Ferrari always do.  Seems odd that Todt did all his whining behind closed doors though, this guy is about as Italian as it gets

[Nonesuch]

So as I say, I'd be very interested in views on Montezemolo's latest complaints and his/Ferrari's attitude in general, particularly from fans of the prancing horse.

 

As a 'fan of the prancing horse' I have little interest in Di Montezemolo's rants. In 2009 he had the best chance he'll likely ever have to take that leap and collaborate with other teams on a new series - but he didn't.

 

That doesn't mean I think he's wrong - he often isn't - but that I think he is not the right man to deliver this message.

 

That said, the premise of the blog-author that 'Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari' seems flawed. Does Ferrari need to race? I do think that is true - but that doesn't mean it has to do so in F1.

 

F1 is not static. F1 in 2014 is different from F1 in 1990, as are the values it represents and excitement it stirs up in fans and viewers. Given all the changes of recent years, and the declining interest of viewers (see the threads on this forum) it seems very plausible to me that F1 is moving in a direction in which Ferrari might well be better off without it.

Edited by Nonesuch, 15 July 2014 - 09:43.

[boldhakka]

I don't understand why his comments cannot be evaluated for their own merits without clouding the issue with Ferrari's current situation, money, veto rights and such. Pretend it was your grandfather saying these things and provide reasonable arguments for why he is wrong. Just because his intentions may not be pure (whose is?) and he may have been incompetent in the past, doesn't mean he is making a bad argument. 

[Anderis]

Do you see any excuses?

Indirectly, yes. You can read between the lines from some of the Montezemolo's interviews, that the fact Ferrari is not at the front of the grid has something to do with some of the F1 rules not being right.

 

[Ferrari2183]

Indirectly, yes. You can read between the lines from some of the Montezemolo's interviews, that the fact Ferrari is not at the front of the grid has something to do with some of the F1 rules not being right.

You do know that he had reservations about the current formula long before the cars hit the track. Boldhakka is correct... Why don't you lay your counter argument down without getting emotional?

[VolvoT5]

A lot of changes have taken place at Ferrari but the elephant in the room is still LdM....

 

Although as painful as it is to say I do agree with him about the rules at the moment.  I think F1 is going down the wrong path...... unfortunately LdM is not the right guy to point this out because it comes across as a major case of sour grapes. 

[SanDiegoGo]

http://wp.me/ppB1o-3Qv

 

 

Oh, he nailed that.

 

Ferrari's veto and free money is a disgrace.

[PayasYouRace]

Saward seems spot on with his analysis.

 

If LdM was really concerned about the state of the sport, he'd be willing to do what it takes to improve it, and much of that would involve giving up Ferrari's somewhat unfair advantage.

 

The new rules have really worked for F1, and LdM is only complaining because Ferrari have stuffed it up.

[Gyno]

F1 been going the wrong way since 2005 when it comes to new rules.

Latest being the stupid standing start after SC to spice up the show.

 

This is F1 not a spec series that it's turning into.

Let the teams do what they can afford to do.

 

They cant spend billions of dollars if they dont have that kind of money.

Let them test as much as they like.

let them build as many engines as they like and any kind of engines as they want.

Let them come up with more ways to get more mechanical grip.

 

They need to stop this madness about spending getting out of hand.

Guess what, they will keep spending more and more money no matter what cost cutting they come up with.

 

If they cant spend money on cars then they will waste it on other things like 10 stories motorhomes with swimming pools or some other crap that doesn't need to be in F1.

they will keep spending the money they have so why not let them spend it on the cars instead of other stupid stuff.

 

Only thing that needs to be restricted is downforce, standard front and rear wings.

Everything else is open for the teams to do what ever they can come up with.

 

Also get rid of this stupid must use 2 tire compounds in the race and bring back refueling with no fuel limits or fuel flow limits. 

[Nonesuch]

The new rules have really worked for F1

 
How so? Just a few weeks ago Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery said that: "Viewing figures so far this year are extremely disappointing, there's no doubt about that."

[Jon83]

I'm a fan of Ferrari and don't have any problem with what the president is saying. I certainly wouldn't describe it as being arrogant.

[Fastcake]

You do know that he had reservations about the current formula long before the cars hit the track. Boldhakka is correct... Why don't you lay your counter argument down without getting emotional?

The current engine formula that Montezemolo had a large role in crafting? The V6 turbos that never would of existed until he blocked any other configuration? It seems to me when you play such a large role in making the rules and hold a technical veto, complaining about them afterwards just makes you a bad loser.

I did wonder back when Domencali was fired if this was a result of Montezemolo himself coming under pressure from the Fiat board due to the lack of results from the F1 team. The more he opens his mouth this year, the more I am convinced he's trying to deflect criticism off himself and onto the sport.

[PayasYouRace]

 
How so? Just a few weeks ago Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery said that: "Viewing figures so far this year are extremely disappointing, there's no doubt about that."

 

Based on my own enjoyment of the on track product.

[Seanspeed]

I don't understand why his comments cannot be evaluated for their own merits without clouding the issue with Ferrari's current situation, money, veto rights and such.

Because people have a very hard time getting past preconceived notions.

[Seanspeed]

The current engine formula that Montezemolo had a large role in crafting? The V6 turbos that never would of existed until he blocked any other configuration? It seems to me when you play such a large role in making the rules and hold a technical veto, complaining about them afterwards just makes you a bad loser.

I did wonder back when Domencali was fired if this was a result of Montezemolo himself coming under pressure from the Fiat board due to the lack of results from the F1 team. The more he opens his mouth this year, the more I am convinced he's trying to deflect criticism off himself and onto the sport.

Ferrari did play a part in the V6 coming in, but that was only because they fought against a 4 cylinder engine. Its not like they were at the forefront of the movement to ditch the V8's. It was just the lesser of two evils for them.

And while we don't really know the details of Ferrari's veto power, its safe to say its not that impactful, whatever say they have, cuz the current rules are certainly not what you'd expect if Ferrari actually had any power in shaping things.

[TheRacingElf]

You can argue as long as you want but if you take a look at the dropping viewing figures you can only conclude LdM is right

[AlexS]

The only thing right that the guy says is that Montezemolo( or who he delegated the power to) put in part* himself in current place. 

Other than that he has no reason at all. The money distribution is because a team that brings more fans have more rights to money obviously. It can be discussed the values but not the principle.

The author himself only writes about F1 because Ferrari helped made F1 more than anyone else by being there continously for decades.

 

* Ferrari can't veto everything even if they happen to have the nominal power. There is need to maintain relationships with other major teams and people.

The reason that Ferrari went along with current V6 is that they were unhappy with F1 aero formula, so lets throw the dice again, second they are a commercial enterprise and they have commercial hybrid products and major companies like Mercedes seem would only be there with this current rules.

 

I think the problems with F1 are complex and go not only to FIA behavior (TV Rights killing the open TV F1 in last decade, the dreadful TV directors that F1 have ) but  also much far than just F1 entering into cultural, political, civilizational (dis)evolution and oportunity.

 

Just one example: kids in the past had less stuff to be entertained with, today they have more. So what are the odds that a kid/teenager will have a contact with F1? I am not even going to the point of saying if he would like what he sees.

What FIA did: opened F1 to kids or closed? anyone i think knows the answer.

Edited by AlexS, 15 July 2014 - 11:36.

[Ferrari2183]

Saward seems spot on with his analysis.

If LdM was really concerned about the state of the sport, he'd be willing to do what it takes to improve it, and much of that would involve giving up Ferrari's somewhat unfair advantage.

The new rules have really worked for F1, and LdM is only complaining because Ferrari have stuffed it up.

Saward is full of it. F1 is broken and it is too restrictive.

Last year he said that the reason Pirelli are in the situation they're in was because of a lack of track testing. Well, things aren't improving as far as that is concerned. It's getting even more restrictive.

It's very convenient for him to lay the blame at Ferrari's door due to the extra money they receive but they're hardly the only team with such an agreement.

[Ferrari2183]

The current engine formula that Montezemolo had a large role in crafting? The V6 turbos that never would of existed until he blocked any other configuration? It seems to me when you play such a large role in making the rules and hold a technical veto, complaining about them afterwards just makes you a bad loser.

I did wonder back when Domencali was fired if this was a result of Montezemolo himself coming under pressure from the Fiat board due to the lack of results from the F1 team. The more he opens his mouth this year, the more I am convinced he's trying to deflect criticism off himself and onto the sport.

What other configuration? The 4 cylinder rubbish... I think he should be thanked for that because they'd have been worse sound wise.

I also doubt he is complaining about the configuration but rather the restrictive rules governing them.

[AlexS]

Mauro Forghieri about F1 . 

 

DRS is moral a disaster. Hybrid engines okay but too much restrictions.

 

 

http://www.f1passion...ma-meno-limiti/

[JHSingo]

I'm getting rather bored of his complaints, to be perfectly honest. Maybe if they had a better car and engine, he'd be a lot happier?

 

There are very other sporting teams in the world as over hyped as Ferrari, yet fail on a consistent basis to deliver. Would you like some cheese with that whine, Luca?

[AvranaKern]

Montezemolo: "Formula 1 has become an engine series, which is totally unacceptable. We must prioritize aerodynamics, or we quit. Because they started it!"

Edited by ali.unal, 15 July 2014 - 12:44.

[superden]

Winning = no complaints

Not winning = complaints

 

Hardly front page news.

[Ferrari2183]

Montezemolo: "Formula 1 has become an engine series, which is totally unacceptable. We must prioritize aerodynamics, or we quit. Because they started it!"

You're making things up.

Montezemolo is right. Look at the amount of threads here about the direction of Formula 1.

Do you know how many previous die hard F1 fans I know of who don't even bother anymore? There was a pub/restaurant we used to go to to watch frequently. The pub was opened and full even in the wee hours of the morning. They no longer open because there is just no interest.

[Fastcake]

Ferrari did play a part in the V6 coming in, but that was only because they fought against a 4 cylinder engine. Its not like they were at the forefront of the movement to ditch the V8's. It was just the lesser of two evils for them.

And while we don't really know the details of Ferrari's veto power, its safe to say its not that impactful, whatever say they have, cuz the current rules are certainly not what you'd expect if Ferrari actually had any power in shaping things.

 

You can only assume if they were so insistent on the V6 they must of wanted it to some extent, probably because Ferrari thought they could do a better job, even if it wasn't Montys first choice.

 

I don't see how you can say their veto is not impactful, when they had the ability to completely change the configuration from the four cylinder engines everyone else wanted.

 

Saward is full of it. F1 is broken and it is too restrictive.

Last year he said that the reason Pirelli are in the situation they're in was because of a lack of track testing. Well, things aren't improving as far as that is concerned. It's getting even more restrictive.

It's very convenient for him to lay the blame at Ferrari's door due to the extra money they receive but they're hardly the only team with such an agreement.

 

A lack of dedicated tyre testing was Pirelli's problem last year, the amount of testing days the teams got had nothing to do with it. They were being asked to build new tyres each year, but no one in the sport was bothered about arranging any tyre tests, until Mercedes realised they could run their current car.

Edited by Fastcake, 15 July 2014 - 15:17.

[GoldenColt]

Great blog from AMuS's Mr. Schmidt about Montezemolo and why he's complaining.

 

http://www.auto-moto...ng-8465277.html

 

Cba to translate this all by myself.

Edited by GoldenColt, 15 July 2014 - 15:35.

[Cacarella]

LOL!!! 

 

30 threads and thousands of user signatures about how "Double points suck" , "Engines are too quiet!!", "Tyres are Cheese!", "Standing starts are a Gimmick!",

"DRS- I hate it!",  "FIA are manipulating the championship!",  "Cars are too slow!"....

 

Then Ferrari agree and everyone says... F!@! that SH!@, Ferrari whinge too much!

[pingu666]

i dont like the engine freeze, but it was obivous if one was way better the others would be in trouble, but i bet they all signed up thinking "we will be best, **** the other saps hahahah"

[garagetinkerer]

Ferrari want v12 powered cars wit no fric, unlimited testing, crazy fuel, no tyres that potentially don't suit their car, minimal aero and any rules surrounding barge boards to not apply to them whilst getting veto on any rules, more money than anyone else and the ability to run 9 car teams.

 

Fair request, because historic

Ferrari invested their money in a track around their facility. Now there are no limits on teams with better wind-tunnels to stop aero work (Ferrari have a rubbish wind-tunnel and they're not asking others to stop), so do tell me why Ferrari should be singled out for their investments? Surely some of the other teams did at one time have possibility of buying into a track. McLaren or any other team bitch just about as much as any one, they don't get negative views as much in British media. How do you think they got Ferrari to not test at their track? Did you complain and moan about how Mercedes was threatening to quit if they were rapped on knees for the illegal test last year? Surely you don't think it is worth mentioning perhaps because of your own bias which you admitted (and was quite refreshing to see you admit as much, as most don't). Just so you know, Mercedes is the team currently with the biggest budget,.. RBR and Ferrari don't even come close. Also, customer teams like McLaren and others, they don't have to spend as much money on developing engines, which Ferrari does and has done so for a long, long time. Engine development is costly, ask Mercedes...

[garagetinkerer]

LOL!!! 

 

30 threads and thousands of user signatures about how "Double points suck" , "Engines are too quiet!!", "Tyres are Cheese!", "Standing starts are a Gimmick!",

"DRS- I hate it!",  "FIA are manipulating the championship!",  "Cars are too slow!"....

 

Then Ferrari agree and everyone says... F!@! that SH!@, Ferrari whinge too much!

Everybody loves to take a **** at Ferrari and RBR, and it is just getting sillier by the day

[SanDiegoGo]

Saward is full of it. F1 is broken and it is too restrictive.

Last year he said that the reason Pirelli are in the situation they're in was because of a lack of track testing. Well, things aren't improving as far as that is concerned. It's getting even more restrictive.

It's very convenient for him to lay the blame at Ferrari's door due to the extra money they receive but they're hardly the only team with such an agreement.

 

 

yes they effing well are. THAT'S THE POINT.

[RockyRaccoon68]

Isn't Luca just complaining about the same things we have endless threads about on here?

 

He's completely right.  F1 is broken.  It used to be the pinnacle and it used to amaze me, now it doesn't even come close.  The cars are too slow, the rules are too restrictive, the tyres are rubbish, DRS is rubbish, double points are rubbish and next year an even more restrictive parc ferme plus standing restarts will be rubbish.

[Ferrari2183]

yes they effing well are. THAT'S THE POINT.

You, dear sir, need to get out more and see the world for what it really is.

Reality is far too complex for most sport writers and Saward is no exception.

[garagetinkerer]

yes they effing well are. THAT'S THE POINT.

I believe McLaren, Williams, RBR and even the newcomers Mercedes, who nothing before this season had such a deal since last year where they all get money. Sure they have no other rights that are with Ferrari, but there's more to it.

[garagetinkerer]

Isn't Luca just complaining about the same things we have endless threads about on here?

 

He's completely right.  F1 is broken.  It used to be the pinnacle and it used to amaze me, now it doesn't even come close.  The cars are too slow, the rules are too restrictive, the tyres are rubbish, DRS is rubbish, double points are rubbish and next year an even more restrictive parc ferme plus standing restarts will be rubbish.

I'm one of those tifosi's who think that Monty mucked up things at Ferrari too much, and i thought more reason to ask him to go away when i read thread title. However, it is the usual Ferrari bashing time.

[garagetinkerer]

You can only assume if they were so insistent on the V6 they must of wanted it to some extent, probably because Ferrari thought they could do a better job, even if it wasn't Montys first choice.

 

I don't see how you can say their veto is not impactful, when they had the ability to completely change the configuration from the four cylinder engines everyone else wanted.

 

 

A lack of dedicated tyre testing was Pirelli's problem last year, the amount of testing days the teams got had nothing to do with it. They were being asked to build new tyres each year, but no one in the sport was bothered about arranging any tyre tests, until Mercedes realised they could run their current car.

They couldn't hence the 151c They got away with it...

[northanmonkee2]

you know its quite possible that one day someone will call monties bluff (post bernie)

and he will be forced into leaving f1 or leaving ferrari.

[johnmhinds]

Kind of a silly blog from Joe.

 

Yes Ferrari and all the other big teams taking home the majority of the money is a big issue, but that doesn't negate all of Montezemolo's criticisms of how the sport is being run.

 

I should note that I believe Joe Saward is still involved with Caterham (as a non-executive director of the Caterham Car Group) so he is hardly going to be the most unbiased commentator on the subject of F1 finances at the moment with the Caterham F1 team almost going tits up due to their lack of money.

[scheivlak]

 

A lack of dedicated tyre testing was Pirelli's problem last year, the amount of testing days the teams got had nothing to do with it. They were being asked to build new tyres each year, but no one in the sport was bothered about arranging any tyre tests, until Mercedes realised they could run their current car.

Really low 

 

The test was not an initiative of Mercedes, it was proposed by Pirelli.

[Fastcake]

Really low 

 

The test was not an initiative of Mercedes, it was proposed by Pirelli.

 

A misspeak as I was writing it in a hurry. It had nothing to do with my point about the point about the lack of Pirelli testing in previous years.

Edited by Fastcake, 15 July 2014 - 21:20.

[CoolBreeze]

I agree with Luca. F1 is dying...slowly and painfully.