63 replies to this topic

[RedRocksF1]

Very unprofessional from Charlie. I won´t say illegal because I ignore if there´s any rule about it, but revealing private conversations within a professional environment it´s not fair (at least) in my opinion.

[oetzi]

I don't mind that he told this anecdote, it is amusing, where he went over the line for me, was "he is a danger to himself and others" part, especcially, knowing that you can say a lot about Fernando, but that is definitely not his MO.

If someone has 40 years' experience and is directly asked their opinion about a situation they were personally involved in, you might be wise to be grateful they were kind enough to share the experience with you and, if you don't agree with them, pause to consider that they might have some insight into it that most of us don't.

 

I'm not saying you have to agree with them just because they were there - but it's a little unfair to come over all defensive and dismissive simply because at a single given moment they don't consider a particular individual's behaviour and state of mind to match your general perception of them.

Edited by oetzi, 18 July 2014 - 11:08.

[artista]

I don't mind that he told this anecdote, it is amusing, where he went over the line for me, was "he is a danger to himself and others" part, especcially, knowing that you can say a lot about Fernando, but that is definitely not his MO.

Whiting never said Alonso is a danger. What he said is: "I've never seen a driver do anything like that before and I felt for his health, really. Seriously. If anyone went into a race so fraught then they are a danger to themselves."

I understand, Whiting thinks it could be dangerous if a driver, any driver, is too infuriated when he starts a race, but he never implied Alonso was still that angry when the race started and he never implies Alonso was dangerous.

[ViMaMo]

Here's a little gem from the Charlie Whiting interview, about Monza 2006. 

 

http://plus.autospor...7350.1398749298

 

That was one of the crappiest penalties ever handed out. And Alonso needs to smile and take the bitter pill? Take it like a man? That's what Charlie/you does/do when he/you gets/get shafted ...  ? 

Edited by ViMaMo, 18 July 2014 - 11:43.

[krumpli12]

If someone has 40 years' experience and is directly asked their opinion about a situation they were personally involved in, you might be wise to be grateful they were kind enough to share the experience with you and, if you don't agree with them, pause to consider that they might have some insight into it that most of us don't.

 

I'm not saying you have to agree with them just because they were there - but it's a little unfair to come over all defensive and dismissive simply because at a single given moment they don't consider a particular individual's behaviour and state of mind to match your general perception of them.

 

My main problem is that this is still an ongoing "relationship", where one of the parties has "power" over the another, it is not equal position, this is not something between friends. It is sort of like, if your boss would tell a funny little anecdote on the local news about one of your disputes, and cheerfully telling the rest of the world, that you are unstable.

 

I am sorry, but it irks me the wrong way, and not beacuse he is right or not, just because of the fact, that this is very, very unproffessional.

[oetzi]

I don't mind that he told this anecdote, it is amusing, where he went over the line for me, was "he is a danger to himself and others" part, especcially, knowing that you can say a lot about Fernando, but that is definitely not his MO.

Here you say it's OK to tell the story but Charlie has got his personality wrong.

 

Now it's the opposite?

 

Edited by oetzi, 18 July 2014 - 12:04.

[LuckyStrike1]

What else to expect from someone like Charlie Whiting from the gang of Bernie and his merry dorks?

[krumpli12]

Here you say it's OK to tell the story but Charlie has got his personality wrong.

 

Now it's the opposite?

 

 

No, it is not. The problem is not with the story, at least for me, or that he told it (he was asked, he re-telled something that happened), the problem was with the part where he classified someone in a negative light, someone who is basically his subordinate in certain work-related fields, and he classified him in relation to his work. And he didn't do it in the past tense, he did it in the present tense.

 

Of course, there are others who thinks that even the telling of how the dispute went was wrong, and I can be convinced that they are right, more than likely he shouldn't have done that either, but I give him more leeway, F1, in the end, is showbusiness, the dispute happened a long time ago, the anecdote was funny, so well, maybe not Charlie's best judgement, but I could live that.

 

However, I stand by my earlier statement, that he should refrain himself in his position to tell about any of the drivers that he thinks they are/were not in the right mind, dangerous, careless, whatever. He can think that way as a private person, but he very much cannot tell such things while he is in the postition he is. Unneseccary, unproffesional, you name it. That's all.

Edited by krumpli12, 18 July 2014 - 12:25.

[oetzi]

All he said is that, at that moment, Alonso could have been a danger to himself on track because he was so angry, angrier than he'd ever seen a driver (and he's known hundreds), and that he was worried about him. 

 

Why would saying that upset anyone?

[as65p]

All he said is that, at that moment, Alonso could have been a danger to himself on track because he was so angry, angrier than he'd ever seen a driver (and he's known hundreds), and that he was worried about him. 

And from what we've seen of Alonso since, we can safely judge that Charlie was wrong with his "fears". There's  hardly a safer pair of hands out there on track than Alonso, regardless of any off-track troubles he might have (and there were a few over the years).

[oetzi]

Alonso didn't go out on track at the moment he said he'd have been worried about him, so we'll never know. He said that at that moment, he was the angriest he'd ever seen a racing driver. Not that he wasn't safe to start the race, just that he probably wouldn't have been if the race started then. He never said he shouldn't have raced (unlike, for instance, Sid Watkins trying to talk Senna out of racing at Imola because his head wasn't right).

 

So there's no way of knowing if he was right or wrong. But he's known a lot of drivers, and the ones I've known have tended to be fairly fiery characters (even the mild mannered ones), and to be the angriest he'd ever seen any of them, Alonso must have been pretty angry. But it passes quickly in some people (or gets hidden deep), less so in others. So how someone is 24 hours beforehand gives no clue to how they'll be the next day.

Edited by oetzi, 18 July 2014 - 13:42.

[Spillage]

And from what we've seen of Alonso since, we can safely judge that Charlie was wrong with his "fears". There's hardly a safer pair of hands out there on track than Alonso, regardless of any off-track troubles he might have (and there were a few over the years).

Well, to my knowledge Alonso is the only driver in the current field who has been penalised for an incident of road rage - when he chopped Doornbos during practise at Hungary in 2006. But on the whole I agree with your statement, and that although he does say some dumb things from time to time his ontrack behaviour since then has been exemplary.

[domenico]

Alonso's 2006 Monza penalty is the most brainless penalty ever !

Absolutely nonsense, but Bernie somehow must pleased Ferrari's team and italian fans.

[as65p]

Alonso didn't go out on track at the moment he said he'd have been worried about him, so we'll never know. He said that at that moment, he was the angriest he'd ever seen a racing driver. Not that he wasn't safe to start the race, just that he probably wouldn't have been if the race started then.

 

Hm, can't we assume Charlie knows when the race starts, so what sense do his remarks make in the first place? Other then telling a story.

 

Well, to my knowledge Alonso is the only driver in the current field who has been penalised for an incident of road rage - when he chopped Doornbos during practise at Hungary in 2006. But on the whole I agree with your statement, and that although he does say some dumb things from time to time his ontrack behaviour since then has been exemplary.

 

For fun, you could look up what Dornboos thought of that "road rage" incident, you might get a surprise.