Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 2 votes

Variable Wing Angle DRS - wing angle reduces as cars gets closer


  • Please log in to reply
32 replies to this topic

#1 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 20 July 2014 - 16:06

Will having a Variable Wing DRS improve racing? I mean currently its a bit easy to overtake a car if you're in the DRS zone.

<i know, not in Renault vs Merc powered team's case  :p >

 

How it should work:

Once in DRS zone - 1 second gap, the driver opens the DRS wing (0% angle). As attacking car gets closer to the car in front, the wing starts to close proportional to the gap - 0.8s = 20% closed, 0.6s = 40%, 0.5s = 50% & so on. 

But should stop around 50-80%, or whats the purpose of DRS?

 

 

So if a driver stays close around 0.5s to the car in front, it'd be a good fight in DRS zone as attacking car does not get full aero boost, he'll have to use the slipstream for longer period of time & time his move...  it should not be an piece of cake for him to overtake, he has to really earn that place. This way at least the front car has a chance of defending unlike the current 'sitting duck' scenario.

 

 

 

Improve this idea guys.

:)



Advertisement

#2 dgsg

dgsg
  • Member

  • 631 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:53


"Improve this idea guys?.

:)

 

Ban DRS?



#3 Farhannn15

Farhannn15
  • Member

  • 746 posts
  • Joined: August 13

Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:57

This sounds like a really good idea IMO but then again I guess someone may be able to find a flaw with this idea but not me anyway



#4 Wingcommander

Wingcommander
  • Member

  • 1,469 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 July 2014 - 03:58

 

"Improve this idea guys?.

:)

 

Ban DRS?

 

 

This. Post of the year.



#5 Gorma

Gorma
  • Member

  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:00

Less take a bad idea and make it worse. Seems like the FIA thought process. 


Edited by Gorma, 21 July 2014 - 06:01.


#6 Rob G

Rob G
  • Member

  • 11,610 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 21 July 2014 - 06:23

If the DRS must exist, I think they should simply reduce the wing opening by half, period.



#7 Anderis

Anderis
  • Member

  • 7,346 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:31

I think it's an interesting idea.



#8 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 45,984 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 21 July 2014 - 07:54

The best solution to the dirty air problem would be fully active, "smart" aero anyway.

 

For example, the DRS flap should close as soon as you're alongside the car in front.


Edited by PayasYouRace, 21 July 2014 - 07:57.


#9 rooksby

rooksby
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:28

I think they sort of unintentionally fell ass-backwards into DRS because of the f-duct. Variable aero "for the show" sounded right, f-duct was variable aero, so we'll put a cheap f-duct mimicking letter-box on the rear wing. Job done.

 

Which is all a very sideways solution to the problem of following in dirty-air; sometimes it works, but often the results seem unsatisfactory.

 

I say they missed a trick, and should have gone for DES, Downforce Enlargement System.

 

Any-time a car follows another car across any of the dozen or two timing loops, anywhere on the track, by less than a second, DES is enabled and the option for a push-button increase of the front and/or rear wing angle-off-attack by some mandated amount is given to the chasing driver. If they're putting standard active suspension on the cars, let the switch dip the nose too. Whatever. The point is the chasing car gets a chunk of extra downforce help in an attempt to mitigate the dirty air ... as opposed to a big chunk of drag removed for a straight or two.

 

That changes the whole dynamic, the excitement and close racing and multiple lines now happens in the corners, not some 20kph overspeed into a braking zone at the end of a Tilke kilometre drag-race. Even if DES just worked to keep them close, it would be proper old-fashioned slipstreaming down the straight and a man-on-man fight on the brakes.

 

I wouldn't guarantee it automatically turns every race into Villeneuve-Arnoux '79, but it seems like it sounds right.



#10 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 21 July 2014 - 13:53

 

"Improve this idea guys?.

:)

 

Ban DRS?

 

:p 

 

but then all we'll see is Merc dominating for god knows how many years, RBR behind them, Williams & Ferrari somewhere behind them. RBR will dominate in aero tracks, Merc in bit less d/f tracks.

As a concept, DRS is a good, but under the current rules it gives massive advantage to the attacking car. 



#11 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,173 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:02

I say just have all the cars outfitted with turbines that generate their own downforce irrespective of what the car in front is doing. Problem solved. :p

#12 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:03

id rather less slot gap and longer zones maybe



#13 Paul McLucas

Paul McLucas
  • Member

  • 204 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:04

I say just have all the cars outfitted with turbines that generate their own downforce irrespective of what the car in front is doing. Problem solved. :p

 

 

The Brabham!!!  Bernie, is that you?



#14 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 45,984 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:05

I say just have all the cars outfitted with turbines that generate their own downforce irrespective of what the car in front is doing. Problem solved. :p

 

Maybe fans. Turbines don't work that way.

 



#15 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:39

As a concept, DRS is a good, but under the current rules it gives massive advantage to the attacking car.

I think the rules are fine, its just the placement and length of DRS zones that needs optimizing.

I also like your idea in theory, but the inability to follow too closely in general(which is why we have DRS in the first place) makes it hard for a driver to really get right up on another car's butt in the first place.

#16 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,539 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:41

I think the rules are fine, its just the placement and length of DRS zones that needs optimizing.

I also like your idea in theory, but the inability to follow too closely in general(which is why we have DRS in the first place) makes it hard for a driver to really get right up on another car's butt in the first place.

0 meter and 0 zones seems optimized enough for me. :clap:



#17 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:43

0 meter and 0 zones seems optimized enough for me. :clap:

I quite like DRS. We can actually watch racing instead of processions.

#18 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 134 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 21 July 2014 - 14:48

YtkBGGI.png

 

http://i.imgur.com/YtkBGGI.png

 

Images from ScarbsF1 DRS article  :p

 

With my paint skills :drunk: , i've tried to visually show how it'll look like.



#19 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 21 July 2014 - 15:13

DRS is just fake, introduced to spice things up. Nothing else. It doesn't require skills, just a push of a button. I agree with of the posters. Ban it. 



Advertisement

#20 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 21 July 2014 - 15:26

DRS is just fake, introduced to spice things up. Nothing else. It doesn't require skills, just a push of a button. I agree with of the posters. Ban it.

Seems many people don't understand why DRS was brought in.

And there's way more to overtaking still than just pushing a button.

#21 ollebompa

ollebompa
  • Member

  • 791 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 21 July 2014 - 15:37

I think they should add a button that detaches the whole rear wing. You can only use it once a race and for the remainder you'll have to do without a rear wing.

#22 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,539 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 21 July 2014 - 15:51

DRS was brought in because Alonso couldn't overtake Petrov on a track designed to harm overtaking. You could also say the 18k RPM revlimit was to blame. More revs could mean more topspeed and a succesful overtake. But nooo, we now have a fake push of the button overtake and fiddling with zones and activation points for years now.

 

I rather have a procession than 100+ driveby's and people waving each other past.



#23 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 21 July 2014 - 15:58

DRS was brought in because Alonso couldn't overtake Petrov on a track designed to harm overtaking. You could also say the 18k RPM revlimit was to blame. More revs could mean more topspeed and a succesful overtake. But nooo, we now have a fake push of the button overtake and fiddling with zones and activation points for years now.

 

I rather have a procession than 100+ driveby's and people waving each other past.

'Alonso couldn't overtake Petrov' wasn't the reason DRS was brought in. it was actually discussed in 2009 and approved in early-mid 2010, although the procession that was Bahrain 2010 didn't help. Of course, Abu Dhabi summed up why it was needed, although I'd rather they just fix the tracks like Jean Todt said they would after 2010.



#24 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 8,611 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 21 July 2014 - 19:10

Nothing wrong with DRS. It makes the races more interesting to watch. You guys will complain about it, they will remove it, and viewing figures will drop. 

 

The drivers are pretty much pressing buttons on the steering wheel throughout the lap. That's no longer a valid excuse with the modern cars. 



#25 chipmcdonald

chipmcdonald
  • Member

  • 1,824 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:02

Shouldn't we be figuring out how to allow the cars to race close WITHOUT DRS?

 

Like less down force offset by more frictional grip...?  This doesn't have anything to do with "car racing" in my book, sorry.



#26 slideways

slideways
  • Member

  • 3,395 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:17



Nothing wrong with DRS. It makes the races more interesting to watch. You guys will complain about it, they will remove it, and viewing figures will drop.

 

The drivers are pretty much pressing buttons on the steering wheel throughout the lap. That's no longer a valid excuse with the modern cars. 

So your position on this is that money > sport.



#27 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,450 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:35

Seems many people don't understand why DRS was brought in.

And there's way more to overtaking still than just pushing a button.

 

 

It was brought in to improve the show. Nothing else. Don't forget Mclaren's F duct was one of the pioneer, or rather, the pioneer in this. 

 

DRS was brought in because Alonso couldn't overtake Petrov on a track designed to harm overtaking. You could also say the 18k RPM revlimit was to blame. More revs could mean more topspeed and a succesful overtake. But nooo, we now have a fake push of the button overtake and fiddling with zones and activation points for years now.

 

I rather have a procession than 100+ driveby's and people waving each other past.

 

+10000

 

'Alonso couldn't overtake Petrov' wasn't the reason DRS was brought in. it was actually discussed in 2009 and approved in early-mid 2010, although the procession that was Bahrain 2010 didn't help. Of course, Abu Dhabi summed up why it was needed, although I'd rather they just fix the tracks like Jean Todt said they would after 2010.

 

Not really. The moveable wing idea came in 2009, when drivers were allowed to move the front wings to close in/overtake a competitor. Lack of overtaking is a whole bigger picture than just a wing. It;s the rev limited engine, high performance brakes, that allows drivers to brake extremely late, aero of the cars. 

 

 

Nothing wrong with DRS. It makes the races more interesting to watch. You guys will complain about it, they will remove it, and viewing figures will drop. 

 

The drivers are pretty much pressing buttons on the steering wheel throughout the lap. That's no longer a valid excuse with the modern cars. 

 

Even with DRS, the attendance of last weekend's German race was 62%. I watched F1 races pre DRS. Was it boring? Yes, mainly as mentioned above, ie, rev limited, etc. Since this silly new rules kicked in, ugly cars, silly sound, i watch the first 5 maybe 10 laps, then i'm off. The current F1 rules, as a whole, are an insult to F1 fans.

 

I can't help but feel the FIA came up with a very silly decision as a solution for the lack of overtaking. By pushing a button, the car in front is dead meat, and you just breeze by. 



#28 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 21,814 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 22 July 2014 - 07:53

It was brought in to improve the show. Nothing else. Don't forget Mclaren's F duct was one of the pioneer, or rather, the pioneer in this.

You're only proving your ignorance even more now.

F1 cars chasing another car have an inherent disadvantage following through corners. A big disadvantage. DRS is aimed at trying to compensate for that disadvantage and equal things out. Yes, its to help the show, but its not nearly as artificial as some people say. It *allows* for racing, its not out to create it from thin air. And the drivers still have to put in the work to get passes done in most cases.
As for McLaren pioneering this, you're confusing stalling the rear wing with a simple change in downforce/drag. I'm sure teams are trying to add some level of stalling to improve the effect, but not only is McLaren not a pioneer of this(stalling has been done even back in the 80's), it is a secondary 'effect' being used.

Edited by Seanspeed, 22 July 2014 - 07:59.


#29 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Racing Sims Forum Host

  • 45,984 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:03

By pushing a button, the car in front is dead meat, and you just breeze by. 

 

Not true, especially this year. It only tends to happen when the trailing car had an overwhelming top speed advantage, often due to having a better engine. In the days before aero made following another car so difficult, overtakes were often like that when you had a top speed advantage. I can understand your point of view considering how DRS was implemented in the early days, and it's still not perfect at some tracks, but it's not always the case that you push a button and get a free pass. It used to be the case that simply getting in the slipstream was a guaranteed pass if the straight was long enough.

 

DRS has allowed F1 to overcome the aero issue. It doesn't need to be a permanent solution, but until a better solution can be implemented (stricter rules on aero, etc) it actually does its job fairly well. If it can be improved then even better.


Edited by PayasYouRace, 22 July 2014 - 08:04.


#30 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,539 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:39

Nothing wrong with DRS. It makes the races more interesting to watch. You guys will complain about it, they will remove it, and viewing figures will drop. 

 

The drivers are pretty much pressing buttons on the steering wheel throughout the lap. That's no longer a valid excuse with the modern cars. 

 

FYI, viewing and attendance figures are dropping. To much messing with the rules, even with the no/yes/no on track limits (well exept for Vergne that is), the sudden FRIC banishment (byebye cost savings for the next 2 years) and sudden leniency on penalties. Massa escaped one, while Perez got one. Difference?  A few races.

 

Edit

@PayasYouRace

There were plans for a major shift in aero, but then came the F-Duct bandaid as a prelude to DRS.


Edited by SenorSjon, 22 July 2014 - 08:58.


#31 Sash1

Sash1
  • Member

  • 1,291 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 22 July 2014 - 08:49

DRS is artificial overtaking. A bullshit system.



#32 pizzalover

pizzalover
  • Member

  • 888 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:12

DRS is just fake, introduced to spice things up. Nothing else. It doesn't require skills, just a push of a button. I agree with of the posters. Ban it. 

The skill is getting into the position where you can deploy it. 

 

Where is the skill in being able to keep a faster car/driver behind, simply because of the dirty air coming of your car?

 

DRS has provided close exciting racing. Job done



#33 f1RacingForever

f1RacingForever
  • Member

  • 1,384 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:27

Pretty good idea but I don't think they have the tech to make it work. Can an ecu even be programed to do that? Do they even have the capability?