158 replies to this topic

[DavidHeath461]

As far as I can see, Bottas is not mentioned among the best qualifiers in this thread, yet he is 6-4 up on Massa. And surely, the Williams car is very fast, clearly second fastest on many circuits. Button looked like an ace qualifier in 2004 too in the very fast BAR. In fact, also Sato qualified on the front row on the grid.

6-4? Bit harsh to give Monaco to Bottas.

[A.Fant]

6-4? Bit harsh to give Monaco to Bottas.

See my post on the previous page. If we exclude Monaco, Bottas is ahead 4-1 in dry qualifying and is on average 0.259s faster and 2 positions better.

[DavidHeath461]

See my post on the previous page. If we exclude Monaco, Bottas is ahead 4-1 in dry qualifying and is on average 0.259s faster and 2 positions better.

I dont see why you are excluding wet sessions?

[A.Fant]

I dont see why you are excluding wet sessions?

Because it's a whole different ballgame where tyres, tyre temperatures, and track conditions are so important that such a small sample as 4 sessions won't give a very accurate picture as to who is better. Maybe Massa is faster in those conditions, but how much that advantage is is hard to quantify as there are so many external factors at play. If Massa maintains his advantage over 10 more sessions, then it might be a valid indicator.

[pokerkid]

Because it's a whole different ballgame where tyres, tyre temperatures, and track conditions are so important that such a small sample as 4 sessions won't give a very accurate picture as to who is better. Maybe Massa is faster in those conditions, but how much that advantage is is hard to quantify as there are so many external factors at play. If Massa maintains his advantage over 10 more sessions, then it might be a valid indicator.

 

You could use that exact argument for dry qualifying. Let's not forget that wet qualifying is a huge test of skill, so massa must be pretty good to be beating the highly rated bottas in such challenging conditions.

[Oho]

You could use that exact argument for dry qualifying.

 

Right, rather sudden variations on track conditions conceivably worth several seconds are as likely in consistent dry conditions as in more varied weather with either continuous or intermittent rain. You learn something every day.

Edited by Oho, 22 July 2014 - 12:04.

[windoesnot]

Seriously who voted for Button? He may be my favourite driver on the grid but come on, he is nowhere near the best qualifyer!!

[MetallurgicalHedonist]

A yeah because the Red Bull was dominant as the Mercedes today, and Webber was good as Rosberg I guess, it was much easier than today to split the Bulls because one driver was always good for inconsistent weekend. McLaren had a superb car, even Button produced stunning races as Japan 2011 with it and the team stated is was a very good car. I have seen this quit often from you here you are operating with absolute numbers like Alonso nearly one with the fourth best car or Lewis did this five times. Formula One is about relative speed to your competitors, and not if someone split the RedBulls five times, he did it with a car much nearer to the front runners, and that's the important point here. Completely of comparison at usual from your side

 

If I see gaps in (bone-dry) qualifyings such as the following ones, then I guess Hamilton's RedBull-splittings were quite impressive (also considering RedBull's relative speed to their competitors which you insist on), and consequently my comparison is not at all off the mark:

 

Australia 2011

Vet ... 1'23''529

Ham...0.778

Web...0.866

But ... 1.250

 

or

 

Germany 2011

Web...1'30''079

Ham...0.055

Vet ....0.137

Alo ... 0.363 (Alo is up there as Alo is on par with qualifying master Ham, but all the other drivers behind show the real gap)

Mas...0.831

Ros...1.184

But....1.209

 

India 2011

Vet ...1'24''178

Ham...0.296

Web...0.330

Alo ....0.341 (Alo is up there as Alo is on par with qualifying master Ham, but all the other drivers behind show the real gap)

But ....0.772

Mas ...0.944

Ros ...1.273

 

I mean, this year's AMGs are also not a second in front of the first non-AMG in bone-dry qualifyings. And, now, after 10 gp-weekends into the season, there are also not more than only four front-row lockouts (RedBull also had four front-row lockouts in 2011 after the first 10 gp-weekends).

[DavidHeath461]

Seriously who voted for Button? He may be my favourite driver on the grid but come on, he is nowhere near the best qualifyer!!

Funny thing is, if we did this poll after the 2009 Spanish Grand Prix, Nutton would probably come somewhere near the top.