46 replies to this topic

[AlmightyGod]

I'm baffled that Jenson is baffled by Lewis's driving. He left the door wide open and since it was a battle for position i see no reason why lewis couldn't take the chance. There was contact but had Jenson drove with the intention of keeping Lewis behind, that would have been obvious and the incident could have been avoided. Get your acts together Jenson or Ron will have more ammunition.

[P123]

I think JB was in a bit of a world of his own in that corner. Not sure why the angst, perhaps he'll change his mood when he sees it onboard from Hamilton. He left the door wide open (couldn't have made it any wider and inviting). I thought he was giving up the fight, the commentators thought that, Hamilton thought that....

[DS27]

I'm the last person to stick up for Lewis, but at the British GP Jenson really opened the door for him, and here he appeared to do the same, but then came across somewhat, and afterwards said, well i'm not just going to let Lewis by - with that kind of consistency Jenson should retire and become a steward.

[Nemo1965]

I think JB was in a bit of a world of his own in that corner. Not sure why the angst, perhaps he'll change his mood when he sees it onboard from Hamilton. He left the door wide open (couldn't have made it any wider and inviting). I thought he was giving up the fight, the commentators thought that, Hamilton thought that....

 

Brundle said (I often agree with him, I find) that it was a misunderstanding. His idea: Button took a wide line, as if he left the door open... and Hamilton took it as that. But it seemed as if Button had just gotten in too deep, and still wanted to keep Hamilton back.

 

Not Buttons mistake, but considering his race-craft and intelligence in such situations, for him it was a brainfade (all is relative, eh?)

[P123]

Brundle said (I often agree with him, I find) that it was a misunderstanding. His idea: Button took a wide line, as if he left the door open... and Hamilton took it as that. But it seemed as if Button had just gotten in too deep, and still wanted to keep Hamilton back.
 
Not Buttons mistake, but considering his race-craft and intelligence in such situations, for him it was a brainfade (all is relative, eh?)

I'd say the phrase 'simple misunderstanding" about covers it.

[Nemo1965]

I'd say the phrase 'simple misunderstanding" about covers it.

 

Yeah, but I am prone to heap a lot of praise on Button that he deserves (and seldom gets by the posters on this thread), so when there is criticism needed (like this weekend), I feel obliged to post.

[jestaudio]

I think JB was in a bit of a world of his own in that corner. Not sure why the angst, perhaps he'll change his mood when he sees it onboard from Hamilton. He left the door wide open (couldn't have made it any wider and inviting). I thought he was giving up the fight, the commentators thought that, Hamilton thought that....

Any rational person would but all JB is doing is reinforcing the perception(by some fans) he is a moaner, personally i hope he does,nt get a contract, i would love Ron to tempt LH back( wishful thinking) failing that a decent top draw driver that performs week in week out not just when the car is perfect. A little harsh on JB but it is what it is

[Lazy]

Any rational person would but all JB is doing is reinforcing the perception(by some fans) he is a moaner, personally i hope he does,nt get a contract, i would love Ron to tempt LH back( wishful thinking) failing that a decent top draw driver that performs week in week out not just when the car is perfect. A little harsh on JB but it is what it is

He's beating his team mate 8-2, that's pretty consistent work.

[jestaudio]

He's beating his team mate 8-2, that's pretty consistent work.

 he plays the odds, always brings the car home, never takes risks and never performs to the top drivers standards unless the car is totally perfect, in short boring, whiney and total waste of a seat, if Macca want another title they need a top draw driver, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would be the obvious choices with perhaps DR and Bottas in another few years time,  

[Paul084]

 he plays the odds, always brings the car home, never takes risks and never performs to the top drivers standards unless the car is totally perfect, in short boring, whiney and total waste of a seat, if Macca want another title they need a top draw driver, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would be the obvious choices with perhaps DR and Bottas in another few years time,  

So because Button has a level head and bring the points home regularly instead of driving recklessly he's a boring driver and needs to be replaced? It just looks like people are making Button a scapegoat when tbh he's not put a foot wrong other than staying with a team that has horribly messed up it's two most recent cars. Granted there's times when Button has warranted criticism such as in 2013 when he was in the wilderness for a few races which exaggerated the balance problem that he is perceived to have suffer from. His performance this year has been good considering the car and he is beating Magnussen as expected which is all that he can r4eally be expected to do in this car.

[Lazy]

 he plays the odds, always brings the car home, never takes risks and never performs to the top drivers standards unless the car is totally perfect, in short boring, whiney and total waste of a seat, if Macca want another title they need a top draw driver, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would be the obvious choices with perhaps DR and Bottas in another few years time,  

Oh I see, I thought you were being serious for a moment.

[Buttoneer]

This discussion has been split from the Button/Magnussen thread as it threatens to hijack the discussion.  Despite the later posts heading off into 'Button should lose his seat' territory, the point is to discuss that incident please, rather than having it off topic in the Hamilton/Rosbnerg thread too.

[Lazy]

Lewis has accepted blame and Button has said he over reacted and can see why Lewis thought he was letting him through. All good.

[f1supreme]

I'm the last person to stick up for Lewis, but at the British GP Jenson really opened the door for him, and here he appeared to do the same, but then came across somewhat, and afterwards said, well i'm not just going to let Lewis by - with that kind of consistency Jenson should retire and become a steward.

very good point,and just like in that race,button wasnt racing lewis yesterday so why not just let him past.its good that kimi thought lewis's move was ok tho.

[TomNokoe]

I wish I knew how to embed tweets. As Lazy said... here is the tweet.

@JensonButton: After watching the race back think I overreacted with my feelings about Lewis's move. I can understand why he thought I was giving him room.

It was strange because there was no lockup that indicated he made a mistake, that's why it seemed so inviting. Alas.

[f1supreme]

Lewis has accepted blame and Button has said he over reacted and can see why Lewis thought he was letting him through. All good.

he apologised for the misunderstanding,not for being fully to blame,coz he went on to say he thought button was letting him by,like in previous races.button wasnt racing lewis,so he should have let him by like in previous races.

[bub]

Did the contact actually do any damage to Buttons car? Did it cause him to finish lower than he would have done otherwise?

[Lazy]

I'm not totally clear where on the track it was, but from what JB said he was taking a wider line, maybe to get better exit speed to defend on the straight.

[Buttoneer]

I can understand why Hamilton thought the door was open, and why Button thought he was too enthusiastic, so all very racing incident to me and it was clearly a simple misunderstanding or 'miscommunication'.  But my view of their respective initial reactions, rather than the incident, is that Lewis acted maturely and graciously while Button was a bit of a dick about it.

 

The tweet today might be more helpful if they followed each other.

[DS27]

Button was a little graceless initially which is very unusual for him, but I think he just seemed a bit frustrated all weekend.

[HoldenRT]

It wasn't just Button though, pretty much everyone Lewis was diving inside of into that corner wasn't seeing him and either banging into him (Sutil?) or being surprised.

 

edit- I'm not sure why they weren't seeing him.

Edited by HoldenRT, 21 July 2014 - 12:24.

[PayasYouRace]

It wasn't just Button though, pretty much everyone Lewis was diving inside of into that corner wasn't seeing him and either banging into him (Sutil?) or being surprised.

 

edit- I'm not sure why they weren't seeing him.

 

In a tight hairpin like that it's very easy to approach in someone's blind spot.

[Gareth]

I can understand why Hamilton thought the door was open, and why Button thought he was too enthusiastic, so all very racing incident to me and it was clearly a simple misunderstanding or 'miscommunication'.  But my view of their respective initial reactions, rather than the incident, is that Lewis acted maturely and graciously while Button was a bit of a dick about it.

 

The tweet today might be more helpful if they followed each other.

Agree with that, except I think Button's initial reaction was pretty understandable given he hadn't seen it back and likely wasn't aware that Hamilton had already said "my bad".

 

The tweet pretty much sorts all that out.

[WitnessX]

I can understand why Hamilton thought the door was open, and why Button thought he was too enthusiastic, so all very racing incident to me and it was clearly a simple misunderstanding or 'miscommunication'.  But my view of their respective initial reactions, rather than the incident, is that Lewis acted maturely and graciously while Button was a bit of a dick about it.

 

The tweet today might be more helpful if they followed each other.

And to put it into context Button comes straight out of race where he is somewhat confused  why some Dick Head had messed up the strategy, from his position he was defending and was hit up the **** by another car. AFAIK the drivers don't have the luxury of inboard race streams and only see the race out their own cockpit perspective. The press comes along and asks manipulative leading questions to get a story and hey presto it works! Not exactly the first time thats happened.

 

And it's a big assumption that the only form of communication is through twitter.

 

Mountain, Molehill. 

 

(actually similar to Gareth)

[Kraken]

And to put it into context Button comes straight out of race where he is somewhat confused  why some Dick Head had messed up the strategy, from his position he was defending and was hit up the **** by another car. AFAIK the drivers don't have the luxury of inboard race streams and only see the race out their own cockpit perspective. The press comes along and asks manipulative leading questions to get a story and hey presto it works! Not exactly the first time thats happened.

 

And it's a big assumption that the only form of communication is through twitter.

 

Mountain, Molehill. 

 

(actually similar to Gareth)

Exactly. The usual media stirring to create a problem where none exists.

Edited by Kraken, 21 July 2014 - 12:46.

[Nemo1965]

It wasn't just Button though, pretty much everyone Lewis was diving inside of into that corner wasn't seeing him and either banging into him (Sutil?) or being surprised.

 

edit- I'm not sure why they weren't seeing him.

 

A very, very interesting feature would be for the BBC or Sky to make a computer simulation of what a driver actually sees when another car is approaching. Button, Alonso, Hamilton too (with a little mor love for risk), seem to have the whiskers of a cat with which they 'feel' where the other car is, how room there is, where they can move themselves... while other drivers either a. don't look in the mirrors, b. obviously miss Button/Alonso's whiskers.

 

I once tried to make such a simulation with rFactor but alas...

[Clatter]

he apologised for the misunderstanding,not for being fully to blame,coz he went on to say he thought button was letting him by,like in previous races.button wasnt racing lewis,so he should have let him by like in previous races.

There's no should have about it. What happened in previous races has no bearing on this occasion.

[Roonaldo]

Button was a little graceless initially which is very unusual for him, but I think he just seemed a bit frustrated all weekend.

Not really, Button is a bit of a moaner and a bit arrogant IMO.

[Roonaldo]

I can understand why Hamilton thought the door was open, and why Button thought he was too enthusiastic, so all very racing incident to me and it was clearly a simple misunderstanding or 'miscommunication'. But my view of their respective initial reactions, rather than the incident, is that Lewis acted maturely and graciously while Button was a bit of a dick about it.

The tweet today might be more helpful if they followed each other.

Agree, my reaction was dick.

[MirNyet]

Bit of an odd one this as the aggression here is coming solely from Button. Hamliton apologised on the track, apologised in the press conference, and apologised in the media and on his facebook/twitter stream. Button got out of the car and immediately laid into Hamliton in all of his interviews - and only later after he watched the race stated that he may have overreacted. Really its a storm in a teacup as Button did open the door a country mile - only to slam the door closed without checking to see if there was a car there, his race wasn't affected by the collision and if not for that misunderstanding, his entire day would have been mostly off camera.

 

Jenson Button is obviously not a happy man at present - he is grasping on any excuse to complain and rarely has anything positive to say about anything. Why such a big deal is being made about this is beyond me. Hamliton came out straight away and said it was his mistake and apologised - most people would have simply accepted that.

[Brazzers]

So who's attending Button's retirement party end of the season with Lewis? 

[Jon83]

I think there was a bit of blame on both sides.

 

As for what Button said after the race, was it not in response to Natalie Pinkham saying Hamilton thought he had just moved over to let him through? I didn't find anything wrong with his response to that.

[Jimisgod]

he plays the odds, always brings the car home, never takes risks and never performs to the top drivers standards unless the car is totally perfect, in short boring, whiney and total waste of a seat, if Macca want another title they need a top draw driver, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would be the obvious choices with perhaps DR and Bottas in another few years time,

Doing better than Massa if he brings it home.

[Kraken]

 

Always the problem with the way the media throws around quotes without the original question being included. The tone and content of the question always colours the response but the media like to stir it up and then quote out of context to get people talking.

 

As to the incident itself, Button was taking his normal line that plenty of others were using and Hamilton came from a long, long way back. No reason at all for Button to think he would try passing there especially as Hamiltons car had a massive traction advantage out of that corner. I think that's basically what Button was getting at. Why risk overtaking there when it can be done with little or no risk a hundred yards later?

[Gareth]

I think there was a bit of blame on both sides.

 

As for what Button said after the race, was it not in response to Natalie Pinkham saying Hamilton thought he had just moved over to let him through? I didn't find anything wrong with his response to that.

Yeah - and there's a big difference between "I thought he was moving over, so my mistake but an understandable one" to "I thought he was moving over, so his mistake".  Possible Jenson thought Natalie was saying Lewis had said the latter (convoluted, much!), which again helps to explain Jenson's reaction.

[Treads]

Over-reaction from Button for being hit, now he's seen it he's admitted so and apologised. 

I have no fault with that, he's done the right thing and admitted his initial mistake. 

Compare / contract with Massa vs Mag situation. 

This topic really doesn't deserve huge discussion, both men had a bit of a brain fade, and both were ultimately sufficiently classy about it. 

[nosecone]

Since both drivers agree to eachother now, we need immediately a analysis of every single frame

[Burtros]

Storm in a teacup.

 

Both drivers said it how it was, I guess from JB's point of view it could seem like Lewis just drove into him. His comments were not scathing, nor was it a 'blast' aimed at Hamilton. I saw the interview live, and the only things I thought were I'm sure he cant have seen the replay yet, and that for once Lewis was behaving in the more gracious fashion.

 

I thought Hamilton handled it in an usually mature way to be honest and fair play to him - and thats made Buttons response looks worse.

Edited by Burtros, 21 July 2014 - 15:56.

[bourbon]

I'm baffled that Jenson is baffled by Lewis's driving. He left the door wide open and since it was a battle for position i see no reason why lewis couldn't take the chance. There was contact but had Jenson drove with the intention of keeping Lewis behind, that would have been obvious and the incident could have been avoided. Get your acts together Jenson or Ron will have more ammunition.

 

This is Jenson's 'go to' line.  He's always baffled at everything that occurs in F1, be it an incident or circumstance - as if it is all new to him.  Frankly I think it is his way of issuing a disclaimer before making what would otherwise be a harsh, unretractable judgment.

Edited by bourbon, 21 July 2014 - 16:34.

[Newbrray]

Button just came out of the car and had a mic stuck in front of him, sometimes the adrenaline is still pumping through the veins and its not like what he said was really malicious. He has retracted his statement and says he understands why Hamilton might have made such a move. Hamilton has also apologised to Jenson.

 

I think its just the media trying to whip up a **** storm.

[redreni]

I was surprised to see these two drivers having contact. If you want to pass on the inside there you have to get alongside under braking rather than divebomb the apex, and in that regard I agree with the analysis of both the drivers involved, i.e. it was Hamilton's fault. I agree that Button over-reacted, but I can see his point about Hamilton's assumption that he was being let through.

 

You only let a faster car pass you for position if you judge that it's better to do that than to lose time defending off line. But Button wasn't defending off line, he was on his normal line, so why would he then cost himself time by going off line to let somebody through when he doesn't have to? In that respect Button's driving was completely predictable, he wasn't making life unnecessarily difficult for Hamilton, and Hamilton is right to conclude that he made an error of judgement in assuming he was being allowed through.

[P123]

Agree with that, except I think Button's initial reaction was pretty understandable given he hadn't seen it back and likely wasn't aware that Hamilton had already said "my bad".
 
The tweet pretty much sorts all that out.

JB wasn't in a great mood post-race thanks to his strategy. I think Lewis tagging him and the apparent implication that he would 'just let somebody through' was taken as an insult by him and probably topped off a fairly bad day at the office, hence the rant. He's now seen it back and admitted to over-reacting, so no big deal. Despite people labelling JB a 'moaner' it's unusual for him to get so irate over something relatively minor.

[HeadFirst]

 he plays the odds, always brings the car home, never takes risks and never performs to the top drivers standards unless the car is totally perfect, in short boring, whiney and total waste of a seat, if Macca want another title they need a top draw driver, Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton would be the obvious choices with perhaps DR and Bottas in another few years time,  

What McLaren needs is to build a decent car. In their present form McLaren have NO chance of attracting Alonso, Vettel, or Hamilton, unless those drivers are foolish enough to believe that ditching the best engine (Mercedes) for an unknown quantity (Honda) is the recipe for improvement. It seems quite obvious considering the performance of the other Mercedes powered teams, that the engine is not the problem. Nor is Button.

[HeadFirst]

This is Jenson's 'go to' line.  He's always baffled at everything that occurs in F1, be it an incident or circumstance - as if it is all new to him.  Frankly I think it is his way of issuing a disclaimer before making what would otherwise be a harsh, unretractable judgment.

 

Probably a smart move too. It may not be as much fun as the Felipe Massa's of the world who are always quick to find someone else to blame, but expressing bafflement (is that a word) at least allows Button an opportunity to modify his position later.

[spacekid]

I think it's good that Jenson has rethought his comments. It looked like a simple misunderstanding between drivers to me.

I also thought Hamiltons little apology was very classy.

[HeadFirst]

I think it's good that Jenson has rethought his comments. It looked like a simple misunderstanding between drivers to me.

I also thought Hamiltons little apology was very classy.

 

Me too. Often Lewis says dumb stuff, but often he shows a classy side as well.

[SophieB]

I thought the little "SORRY" gestures from inside the car as he went past at speed during the race were both sweet and hilarious.