175 replies to this topic

[Schumster]

How high does Mr.Six tenths rank in your greatest F1 drivers of all time list?

 

I personally rank him in the top 5, an all-time great but there is a doubt, a suspicion that he truly, truly hasn't been challenged yet and the challenges he has so far faced he's been hit and miss.

 

Has been truly challenged teammate wise? He had Trulli as his first proper challenge and he was losing out to him in '04 as they entered the final three races before Briatore cracked. Fisichella? A good driver but nothing special. Piquet? Not so much. Massa? A shadow of his former self after those accidents and his treatment at Ferrari. Raikkonen? Again, another shadow. Hamilton? He lost out to a rookie, which all time great would lose out to a rookie?

 

He let the 2010 and 2012 championships slip away, albeit he was only in that position due to his supreme driving, he lost to a rookie and is faltering big time at Ferrari. He has maybe another 2-3 years of driving before his performances will drop off. Time is running out for him.

[ollebompa]

Not at all because he's still active. He will defenitly end in my top 10, possibly higher depending on the coming years.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Top 10. No doubt.

 

How far he climbs up the list depends on his achievements and a more thorough evaluation after his retirement.

 

I rank him well below Schumacher, Senna and Prost for the moment though.

[HoldenRT]

I don't have an all time list but if I did he'd be very high, near the top.  Very solid and consistant through out his whole career, very good racecraft, pace etc.  A slight question mark on qualifying but not slow or bad by any means.

 

I'm judging him separately from his teammate and relative to the whole field.  You can tell when someone is doing good or bad, regardless of who their teammate is.  It's short sighted to think that beating teammates is all that matters.

 

Alonso didn't lose out to Hamilton as a rookie, they were pretty even and the margin was very small.. but Hamilton should get credit for riling him and stirring him up so much.  Alonso hates to be beaten or not have things go his own way but we've seen it so rarely.  In that respect Alonso is a bit spoiled/entitled but you could argue that all of the top drivers are like that.  I don't like when people single out one driver as having a bad attitude or being spoiled because under the right circumstances, they pretty much all are like that.  It's just the nature of F1 and the type of people that are successful in F1.  It's a bit like little kids trying to get their parents attention.. "pick me.. pick me!".

[A.Fant]

In the 2nd-5th range behind Jim Clark.

[sopa]

I don't have a list, more like a ...  tier. But even then this is flexible depending on how many drivers am I going to cramp into that one.

 

Fangio, Clark, Senna and Schumacher are all up in the legend tier and I am unsure whether to include Prost as well or not, making it sort of a 4.5-tier. Then obviously there are other drivers, who were benchmarks in their era, like Moss, Stewart, Lauda, and now Alonso. So he is in that group. I think being a benchmark in an era will give a good argument to include you among the elite. I am unsure if Alonso has had as big impact as Senna or Schumacher, to mention the last two real benchmarks, but he must already be very close.

[Collombin]

About 15th, give or take 3 places.

[Kristian]

Top 20 probably, the following drivers are all worthy of higher acclaim to be honest: (in no particular order)

 

Ascari

Lauda

Moss

Stewart

Clark

Prost 

Fangio 

Senna

Schumacher

Villeneuve

Piquet

 

As has been said, Alonso has never had a teammate to challenge him and when he does one or the other doesn't last for very long (e.g. Trulli in 2004 or Alonso vs Hamilton in 2007). A truly truly great driver would have achieved more at Ferrari, i feel, especially given the reliability they've had in the last 5 years. 

 

But he will be remembered as solid top 20, that's for sure. 

[Spillage]

His career isn't over yet! If he retired tomorrow, though, probably in the lower reaches of the top ten. Behind the Holy Quartet of Fangio/Clark/Senna/Schumacher, behind Prost and around guys like Stewart and Lauda. Ahead of folks like Piquet, Mansell and Hakkinen.

[chunder27]

I rank him fairly high actually as it is blindingly obvious he has over achieved in recent years. But not too high as he does hissy fit a bit!!

 

And Seb's struggles against Daniel this year have shown that spate of wins up for what it really is. Seb is a top driver, but not really destined for me anyway to rank with the greats, the car however...

 

Many for me are above Schuey and Senna coz they were the guys that decided contact was vital, inevitable, reasonable.  they would get in my top 20 but not very high as a result as they ushered in a type of racing that is beyond sport for me. AS quickest obviosuly they would be top 5 or 6. But not best I ahve a quickest and best list!!

Fernando tried his very hardest not to drive like this, much like Kimi, DC, Button, Rubens. Contact is avoidable it seems, close but not necessary.

 

For Vettel, Webber, Schuey, Senna, Massa, Lewis and a few others it seems necessary.

 

I woudl rank Button as a worthy rival too, his style, racing brain and ability have been masked for years.

 

These lists always contain Moss who is staggeringly over rated in my eyes. I know he's lovely, but Fangio had him all ends up!

Edited by chunder27, 23 July 2014 - 12:02.

[Cesc]

Well, it is all about achievements and ''luck", isn't it? Alonso may very well be 5 times WDC but being for one thing or anoher he's "only" 2 times. Look at Vettel, he was at the right place and time and he's already 4 times WDC...

I think Alonso should be around top5 in such a list, but he needs some more "luck" to become 3 times WDC and his career would be more "complete".

[Blanchimont2002]

Definately top 10, perhaps top 5 but that might be stretching it.

[Collombin]

These lists always contain Moss who is staggeringly over rated in my eyes. I know he's lovely, but Fangio had him all ends up!

Not much to choose between them in F1, and if you look at their whole careers Moss is probably superior.

You'd hate a 1987 book I have where 4 top motoring writers gave their individual top 10s. Apply the current points system to their choices and the overall poll result was Moss 1st, Fangio 4th! The highly respected Nigel Roebuck had Moss 1st and Fangio 5th (before Senna, Schumi and Alonso came along). But maybe you will take that as just proving your point.

[naiboz]

I dont think he'll ever be romantically looked back upon like some of the older legends

 

but the guy is a monster and should be in anyones top10 goats

[boldhakka]

Wherever you put him on talent and accomplishments, he should get a huge boost just for how clean he is on track - few of the other "top" drivers are/were as clean as he is. 

[windoesnot]

As has been said, Alonso has never had a teammate to challenge him

 

The same could have been said for Schumi during his prime too and I think most would believe him to be one of the all time greats (prime does not equal his more recent stint).

 

I don't have a 'list' per say although a quick think would have Alonso in the upper top 10 or low teens area. I do think he is the best overall driver on the grid currently still and has been for some time now (an opinion remember please). Time will obviously tell if he gets a chance for a title challenging car which is something he more than deserves.

[Burtros]

Alonso is a real class act. For me he'll be top 5 all time.

 

In my time following F1 (93 onwards) He is the best I have ever seen.

 

Not a bad effort for a driver I do not like at all!!

[DavidHeath461]

I don't include pre 1995 drivers in my rankings as I didn't follow f1 then.

From the drivers I've seen whilst following f1, only Schumacher was better.

[bonjon1979a]

I think he's been the best post schumacher era driver. It's difficult to compare him across other years - he's not in the same league as senna, prost, schumacher, clark, stewart, fangio, g hill, jim clark but just on the outside of that group, definitely in the top 20 all time greats and for me the most complete driver on the grid at the moment.

 

He is a bit of a granny loving, cry baby though...

[MeatPopsicle]

Top 20 probably, the following drivers are all worthy of higher acclaim to be honest: (in no particular order)

 

Ascari

Lauda

Moss

Stewart

Clark

Prost 

Fangio 

Senna

Schumacher

Villeneuve

Piquet

 

As has been said, Alonso has never had a teammate to challenge him and when he does one or the other doesn't last for very long (e.g. Trulli in 2004 or Alonso vs Hamilton in 2007). A truly truly great driver would have achieved more at Ferrari, i feel, especially given the reliability they've had in the last 5 years. 

 

But he will be remembered as solid top 20, that's for sure. 

 

I suspect a lot of those drivers from past generations wouldn't have faired quite so well in todays field, the more popular a sport becomes the larger the pool of talent there is to draw from and the more competitive it gets. If the Vettel+Newey combination hadn't existed Alonso pretty much would have won all the championships in recent memory, he has exceptional speed AND consistency, so for that reason I would put Alonso at the top of the list with Schumacher.
 

[Brazzers]

Top 10.

[PayasYouRace]

Around Nelson Piquet and Jackie Stewart types, and that's not bad company to be in.

[MikeV1987]

Top 10 for now, maybe it will change when he moves on from f1. his demeanor comes off as very sneaky and political which is a bit much for me.

[jjcale]

Probably as good as MSC .... but without the same luck with his cars ... and MSC is easily top 5.

[aray]

4th,after Fangio,Clark and Senna.

[DavidHeath461]

Top 20 probably, the following drivers are all worthy of higher acclaim to be honest: (in no particular order)

Ascari
Lauda
Moss
Stewart
Clark
Prost
Fangio
Senna
Schumacher
Villeneuve
Piquet

As has been said, Alonso has never had a teammate to challenge him and when he does one or the other doesn't last for very long (e.g. Trulli in 2004 or Alonso vs Hamilton in 2007). A truly truly great driver would have achieved more at Ferrari, i feel, especially given the reliability they've had in the last 5 years.

But he will be remembered as solid top 20, that's for sure.

Same old arguments get rehashed.

Re: teammate
He's beating a WDC and highly rated driver at the moment.

Re: achieving more at Ferrari
I think he did great to challenge for the titles in 10 and 12 in an an inferior car. Alonso's driven great on his time at Ferrari. The reasons for underachievement lie elsewhere.

[sennafan24]

I only rank drivers who I have lived through.

 

Only Senna do I think is outright better. He makes my top 5 with Prost, Hamilton and Schumi

[crespo]

Top 5 for sure - I won't let the fact that he's still active cloud my judgment. Alonso is a pleasure to watch drive, race in and race out. He'll be sorely missed when he retires.

Edited by crespo, 23 July 2014 - 13:02.

[wrcva]

Racing: top 10 

Politics, privilege, scandals, PR handlers: #1

Commanding TV/Ad money: #1 

 

I don't know of any other driver who have impacted the F1 world more than Alo.  <spy/crash>gates took out Ron, Flav, indirectly Max.  I am looking forward to seeing him take down LdM as well...     

[Gareth]

Of the multiple WDCs, I'd say: lower than: Schumacher, Fangio, Prost, Senna, and Clark; but above: Piquet, Fittipaldi and Hakkinen. 

 

Other multiple WDCs it's a tough call (eg Lauda, Vettel) or I don't know enough about them to make an informed judgement (eg Brabham, Ascari).

 

There are then the non-WDC drivers held in very high esteem, such as Moss and G Villeneuve.

 

So somewhere in the 6-12 range, for me.  Not bad at all for a man whose career is far from over.

[drag]

In the last 20 years only Schumacher was driving on Alonso level year after year and we can argue that Alonso is a touch better on occasions.

 

In the paddock he is considered as the best driver of this generation, that is the the only real measurement from which people can put Alonso on the list of the all time greats , and its a great era from perspective of driver talent.

 

I just dont understand how can someone say about Hakkinen being on Alonso level , he had great three seasons in a competitive car and was nothing spectacular before and after,maybe we dont watch same races.

 

I rate him above Schumacher so that must be top 5.

[chunder27]

It is a difficult thing to compare.

 

He has after all only really won titles in one car as Jackie did.

 

That for me is always the best method of valueing a champion.  So Lauda for me in two totally differnet eras get's a huge vote as does Black Jack, Graham Hill and a few others.

 

I do think there are great drivers who win titles and fast drivers who win titles.

 

There are very few who are both in the modern era. The last for me was Mika (who was fair and fast, a trait Schumacher never learned) and maybe Jenson and Fernando, Kimi.

 

Seb, Schuey, Lewis, all pretty much just fast with little class

Edited by chunder27, 23 July 2014 - 13:31.

[jimjimjeroo]

Hasn't won a championship for almost 10 years mediocre results since...

[jimjimjeroo]

He's still good though lol

[PlatenGlass]

I think the thing about not being as good as Trulli in 2004 is a bit of a myth. He was generally better in the races. I think Alonso made a few mistakes in 2004 but his race pace was evident back then. I think, for example, it was Spain where Trulli made the suspiciously lightning start but ended up beating Alonso by only a small amount and Trulli got a lot of praise for his drive. Also while Alonso is a "rubbish qualifier", he's been up against both Trulli and Hamilton and hasn't come away looking too bad.

That said, he also made a few mistakes in 2010 and looking at the points, you'd say it cost him the championship. 2007 was famously a bit scrappy as well. 2012 wasn't really lost on mistakes (although being really picky I'd blame him for Suzuka), and while people say what a great year it was, the Ferrari was actually a pretty decent car over the course of the year. Often the McLaren and/or Red Bull was better, but often the Ferrari was better than one of them.

All said, based on my views on the standard getting higher over the years and that he's been more consistent than Hamilton and Vettel, I'd put him among Schumacher and Senna in the top three.

[Bleu]

I would say top 10 but not top 5. 

[ViMaMo]

He does not have the car to add bling to his suit. With regards to the car, he has been notable for his adaptable driving style, one of THE fastest on race day, maybe a teeny weeny bit slower in qualifying, respects the space on track while having battles. 

 

2 Times WDC

3 Times runner up (4 times actually i.e 2007)

32 wins

96 podiums

 

Very few drivers can match that considering the equipment he had.   I'd say 2005,2006,2007 he had the proper car to challenge for WDC. 

Edited by ViMaMo, 23 July 2014 - 13:53.

[as65p]

How high does Mr.Six tenths rank in your greatest F1 drivers of all time list?

 

I personally rank him in the top 5, an all-time great but there is a doubt, a suspicion that he truly, truly hasn't been challenged yet and the challenges he has so far faced he's been hit and miss.

 

Has been truly challenged teammate wise? He had Trulli as his first proper challenge and he was losing out to him in '04 as they entered the final three races before Briatore cracked. Fisichella? A good driver but nothing special. Piquet? Not so much. Massa? A shadow of his former self after those accidents and his treatment at Ferrari. Raikkonen? Again, another shadow. Hamilton? He lost out to a rookie, which all time great would lose out to a rookie?

 

He let the 2010 and 2012 championships slip away, albeit he was only in that position due to his supreme driving, he lost to a rookie and is faltering big time at Ferrari. He has maybe another 2-3 years of driving before his performances will drop off. Time is running out for him.

 

Strange, among all that you left out his battle against the Schumster... surely an innocent mistake?

 

Or maybe the key to your whole post?

[Atic Atac]

In my opinion he is the top 3. Hard to tell really because I don't know how to compare him with the drivers of the early years of F1, but I would never put him lower than 5.

[Schumster]

Strange, among all that you left out his battle against the Schumster... surely an innocent mistake?

 

Or maybe the key to your whole post?

 

I was quoting teammates. But Schumi was a challenge but at 37 yo he wasn't the same Schumacher and Alonso wasn't the '10-'12 Alonso.

 

Like I said, that's why I find Alonso to be a weird one. Beating Schumacher and dragging a crappy Ferrari to title winning positions in two years in a Schumacher-esque manner BUT at the same time losing to Trulli and Hamilton and also letting the Ferrari dream slip?

[Thomas99]

Id rate him on par with Schumacher.

[DampMongoose]

Somewhere in the 11 to 15 category, Moss, Fangio, Clark, Ascari, Brabham, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Hill (G), Stewart, Rindt, Fittipaldi, all were better in my opinion.  But Alonso's not finished yet so things can change...

[velgajski1]

Top 10 if he wins another title, top 5 if he wins 2 more titles, otherwise top 15.

[sopa]

Top5 is very high, for that you'd need to kick out one of the absolute all-time legends. Maybe this "top group" should be expanded then to accommodate everyone. And even then there are many other super good and worthy drivers in contention for top10, top15, etc positions. We even don't know, how would Hamilton or Vettel end up there on those lists. By the looks of it, they could also already be compared to some of the multi-time champions, like Hakkinen or Piquet.

 

Nah, all-time rankings. Too much headache and arguing for nothing - all the effort to attempt to devalue some of the great drivers...

[Balnazzard]

Even though I dont like the guy and not fan of Alonso, I might still stay that place in top-10 is deserved....but again his career is still not over.

[Lemans]

I'd rate him much higher then any other current driver. MUCH higher.

[pokerkid]

Has been truly challenged teammate wise? He had Trulli as his first proper challenge and he was losing out to him in '04 as they entered the final three races before Briatore cracked. Fisichella? A good driver but nothing special. Piquet? Not so much. Massa? A shadow of his former self after those accidents and his treatment at Ferrari. Raikkonen? Again, another shadow. Hamilton? He lost out to a rookie, which all time great would lose out to a rookie?

 

 

Alonso's greatness is proven by the fact he brushes aside challengers so comprehensively that they cause many people like you to conclude they were never challenges in the first place, and no longer count. He makes formerly highly rated drivers (a few months prior) appear shadows of their former selfs. Only one of the best of all time can do that.

Edited by pokerkid, 23 July 2014 - 14:27.

[discover23]

8 years without a title yet he is still rated by most pundits as the best driver in formula 1 . That already says a lot about how good Fernando is and how he deserves to be on any list with the greatest.

[as65p]

losing to Trulli

 

He didn't.

 

and Hamilton

 

At a stretch. Drivers can hardly finish a season more equal than that.

 

letting the Ferrari dream slip

 

What's that supposed to mean? Are you blaming him for fighting for WDCs in 2nd or 3rd best cars?

 

Come on man, it's obvious what you're up to. A honest thread title would have been "I can't stand Alonso so let's look for ways to downgrade him".

[Molo19]

Can't say yet, since his career isn't finished, but I suspect he'll end up comfortably in the top10.