109 replies to this topic

[garagetinkerer]

That comment tells us that you're on the wrong forum. There's a lot more to "greatness" than driving quickly.

Do tell what exactly wasn't so great about the German or some of his drives? I thought '94 Spain was a great drive given more than half the race was run on 2nd and 5th gear (iirc.). Or, what about Spanish GP of '96 was not great, given the backdrop of his rival suggesting "he made us look like amateurs." Surely some here know more about Formula racing than some of the drivers, and i'm all ears to hear from such experts and surely so is the other user.

[garagetinkerer]

Stirling Moss in the 1958 Argentine GP, in which, with one damaged eye (he only had the bandages removed about 30 minutes before the race), he won the race in a Cooper which had bolt on wheels which ruled out the tyre changes that the Ferraris and Maseratis were able to make. This meant that Moss drove the last laps on the canvas as there was no tread left on the tyres. He used the parts of the track with the most oily residue on them as they would wear the tyres less...

  Interesting...

[kayemod]

Do tell what exactly wasn't so great about the German or some of his drives?

 

"Great" encompasses many qualities, some of which Michael Schumacher did unquestionably possess. If you said "fast" instead of "great", then I'd agree with you.

[garagetinkerer]

"Great" encompasses many qualities, some of which Michael Schumacher did unquestionably possess. If you said "fast" instead of "great", then I'd agree with you.

Yes, which is why i asked you to elaborate... Why not name some greats so we go over it Surely we could find flaws with some others except Clark perhaps.

 

What Schumacher did in '97 he himself holds his hand up now, so i will not defend that. Again, won't defend him for 2006 Monaco... However, the argument that it makes whatever else he did less worthy, is clutching at straws really. You don't pan Fangio for taking away his teammate's car. Senna did more questionable things on track than Schumacher. Heck, he ran backmarkers off the track. So yes, both George and i wait to be enlightened about greatness.

Edited by garagetinkerer, 18 August 2014 - 18:21.

[Glengavel]

Yes, which is why i asked you to elaborate... Why not name some greats so we go over it Surely we could find flaws with some others except Clark perhaps.

 

What Schumacher did in '97 he himself holds his hand up now, so i will not defend that. Again, won't defend him for 2006 Monaco... However, the argument that it makes whatever else he did less worthy, is clutching at straws really. You don't pan Fangio for taking away his teammate's car. Senna did more questionable things on track than Schumacher. Heck, he ran backmarkers off the track. So yes, both George and i wait to be enlightened about greatness.

 

Fangio taking over a team mate's car is in no way comparable to the, as you say, questionable antics of Senna and Schumacher. Supremely talented they might have been, but a truly 'great' driver wouldn't need to do those things.

[sennafan24]

Senna did more questionable things on track than Schumacher. Heck, he ran backmarkers off the track. 

Senna is not popular around these parts either. So that argument will not mean much. 

 

 

So yes, both George and i wait to be enlightened about greatness.

 

 

Come on man. Let it go 

 

I am probably too young/inexperienced for my opinion to mean much in this thread, but I was watching Japan 2005 earlier this evening and Kimi's drive was outstanding. Not saying it was the greatest, but one of the best I have observed in my lifetime. 

Edited by sennafan24, 18 August 2014 - 23:47.

[garagetinkerer]

Senna is not popular around these parts either. So that argument will not mean much. 

 

Come on man. Let it go 

 

I am probably too young/inexperienced for my opinion to mean much in this thread, but I was watching Japan 2005 earlier this evening and Kimi's drive was outstanding. Not saying it was the greatest, but one of the best I have observed in my lifetime. 

I sincerely don't know if you saw those races or not, but yes, some of the best driving that i've seen over more than a decade and half of watching GP racing, it came from one man. Heck, no one in the press conference believed it when Schumacher revealed that he was driving with mostly two gears for more than half of the race. Benetton showed telemetry to the assimilated press, who still couldn't bring themselves to believe it. It was JV who said "made us look like amateurs." I think i should be able to ask this question. It is not unfair to ask him/ her what makes something/ someone great or not. Surely there must be a reason to suggest why a drive is not great, apart from the fact that it was Schumacher who accomplished what he did.

 

Mate, i also spoke of Fangio... I mentioned Senna as well, because he's cited as greatest ever by a fair few here. I think it was fair. Sorry, can't help you there.

 

edit: i have always spoken highly of Raikkonen's drive at Suzuka in 2005 and how he overtook Fisico on the outside into turn 1. You should check some of my old posts

Edited by garagetinkerer, 19 August 2014 - 01:00.

[sennafan24]

 

I am not arguing that Schumacher was not a great driver. Just suggesting this might not be the thread to defend him to such a great degree.

[garagetinkerer]

I am not arguing that Schumacher was not a great driver. Just suggesting this might not be the thread to defend him to such a great degree.

I'm not exactly defending him... i'm saying he drove some great races through a decade or so.

[D-Type]

This thread is not about great drivers, which implies their whole careers nut about great drives, ie individual races,  No matter what Schumacher, Senna and others may have done on occasions that does not detract from the greatness of some of their performances.