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Talented American young drivers


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 20:52

Perhaps the new Haas F1 team will race with an American young driver. It seems like it will be Alexander Rossi. But I think he is not the most talented American guy. Which young American driver could be a competitive F1 driver?

 

I think Santiago Ferrucci is very talented.

 

What about Sage Karam?

 

Who else do you have in mind?



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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 21:53

If you just want an American that will make it inside the 107% rule and make no impact in the US market(I thought Haas wanted to advertise internationally?) any of those names will do. But there isn't, and hasn't been for a while, anyone that makes you think "this guy is on his way to F1" that also happens to be American.



#3 ollebompa

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 21:59

Pietro Fittipaldi I think is a US citizen.


Edited by ollebompa, 25 July 2014 - 22:00.


#4 hollowstar

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 22:19

Where's the Andretti family?  :p

 

I'm not following the american series much yet, but is there really no one promising?  I would have thought it's more a lack of interest than a lack of talent? 



#5 Seanspeed

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 22:20

<crickets>



#6 Prost1997T

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 22:24

 

 

I'm not following the american series much yet, but is there really no one promising?  I would have thought it's more a lack of interest than a lack of talent? 

 

Why would they pay to race in Europe when there's stock car racing and the Mazda Road to Indy at home? Matthew Brabham said it'd be great to race in F1 but he doesn't have the budget to get there.


Edited by Prost1997T, 25 July 2014 - 22:24.


#7 Seanspeed

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 22:27

Where's the Andretti family?  :p
 
I'm not following the american series much yet, but is there really no one promising?  I would have thought it's more a lack of interest than a lack of talent?

Lack of interest leads to a lack of talent. Open wheel road course racing is a fairly specialized motorsport. You need to start it young and you need to prove yourself and grow within competitive categories, which the US trails in massively compared to the European leagues. And coming to Europe to race is expensive.

Its like football(soccer). Its competing against other, more popular sports and loses most of the athletic talent to those competing sports.

#8 Imateria

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 22:32

If Josef Newgarden was willing to jump ship from IndyCar I reckon he could make a good fist of it.



#9 hollowstar

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 23:53

Lack of interest leads to a lack of talent. Open wheel road course racing is a fairly specialized motorsport. You need to start it young and you need to prove yourself and grow within competitive categories, which the US trails in massively compared to the European leagues. And coming to Europe to race is expensive.

Its like football(soccer). Its competing against other, more popular sports and loses most of the athletic talent to those competing sports.


Yeah but there is still Indycar. Would it be more difficult for a good IndyCar driver to switch to F1 than say, for a GP2 driver? Seems to me it could even be easier nowadays, as for example IndyCar drivers are used to saving fuel.

I think Bourdais did a better job in that regard than he was ever given credit for. Although he's not just any driver and was obviously not american.

#10 loki

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:01

Why would they pay to race in Europe when there's stock car racing and the Mazda Road to Indy at home? Matthew Brabham said it'd be great to race in F1 but he doesn't have the budget to get there.

 

 

 

The Road to Indy program isn't doing so well itself in terms of results. The profile is high in that realm and there is a bit of interest but circle track gets the kids. There are few rides in open wheel and even those that are there you need to be funded.  It used to be that the kids went from karts to low power formula cars as a ladder.  Now they go from karts to Bandelero to Legends to Late Models.  A proper program like that with local sponsorship and the purse can at least sustain itself or make enough to take a bite out of the expenses.  There just isn't that interest in open wheel. The parents pretty much have to fund the whole thing.  With a few exceptions the kids are going to circle track before they become teenagers.  Of those that don't at that point later when they are in their late teens most of the rest switch once they see how limited the opportunities are in open wheel.



#11 maximilian

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:08

Kyle Larson



#12 Jimisgod

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:11

Frijns could get a fake ID?

#13 Wes350

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:22

Lack of interest leads to a lack of talent. Open wheel road course racing is a fairly specialized motorsport. You need to start it young and you need to prove yourself and grow within competitive categories, which the US trails in massively compared to the European leagues. And coming to Europe to race is expensive.

Its like football(soccer). Its competing against other, more popular sports and loses most of the athletic talent to those competing sports.

 

Nascar is the face of US racing, Indycars are a sideshow in comparison, (just compare the tv audience numbers)  mostly filled with guys out of of the European series.

 

F1 has virtually no presence here in the US - The races are on at crazy hours, DVR is your friend. I have seen all the races this year, quali, and practices, but only seen two of them live. (I live on the west coast.)

 

NASCAR has such a big presence here that "Name" Indycar drivers are virtual unknowns. F1 drivers basically do not exist. F1 is some racing series they all do in europe...

 

As a result the vast majority of up and coming american drivers aspire to be big in NASCAR. Guys like Rossi are anomalies.

 

With the majority of young racers here trying to go for NASCAR, the talent pool for american F1 prospects is extremely shallow.

 

So don't hold your breath for an American driver to make waves in F1 anytime soon...

 

 

 

 

 

*ahem.. off topic*

 American soccer (MLS) is actually growing because they do not directly compete with American football, Baseball, or Basket ball for the same athletic talent.



#14 HaydenFan

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:54

If Josef Newgarden was willing to jump ship from IndyCar I reckon he could make a good fist of it.

 

Don't get the attention that he gets. He is a younger red, white, and blue bleeding James Hinchcliffe. A fun personality, but not the best driver. Solid, will have 10+ wins if he ever gets picked up by a top IndyCar team, but until then, he will show us what his European career showed us. In mediocre equipment, he is not much past mediocre. 

 

I think once a driver goes to IndyCar (especially an American), they are done. F1 is off their radar, and F1's stopped looking at them. 



#15 Watkins74

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:04

No one right now. For the future, what country was little Montoya born in?



#16 discover23

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:23

No one right now. For the future, what country was little Montoya born in?


Sebastian was born in the US..

#17 Cesc

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:04

I don't follow american races and drivers, but I do recall Scott Speed being the American F1 future star....



#18 fer312t

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:19

 

I think Santiago Ferrucci is very talented.

 

Currently I think he's pretty much the only guy on the horizon who still has the potential to make a real impact...

Looking credible so far in a tight Euro F3 field - and certainly has time on his side. Right size too


Edited by fer312t, 26 July 2014 - 09:25.


#19 Prost1997T

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:23

The Road to Indy program isn't doing so well itself in terms of results. The profile is high in that realm and there is a bit of interest but circle track gets the kids. There are few rides in open wheel and even those that are there you need to be funded.  It used to be that the kids went from karts to low power formula cars as a ladder.  Now they go from karts to Bandelero to Legends to Late Models.  A proper program like that with local sponsorship and the purse can at least sustain itself or make enough to take a bite out of the expenses. 

 

It's a scholarship funded system (provided you actually win at each level) so in that respect it's better than spending millions in Europe. I did mention stock car racing for a reason though  ;)

 

That said the Nascar touring series are beginning to have the same issues with pay drivers as other series, particularly with Cup drivers occupying several of the good Nationwide rides on a regular basis.


Edited by Prost1997T, 26 July 2014 - 09:26.


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#20 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:24

If Josef Newgarden was willing to jump ship from IndyCar I reckon he could make a good fist of it.

 

I think Newgarden is not talented enough for F1.


 



#21 HistoryFan

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:25

Kyle Larson

 

Unfortunately, he will stay in NASCAR

 



#22 Disgrace

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:14

Austin Dillon would fit F1 hand in glove.



#23 D28

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 15:37

Nascar is the face of US racing, Indycars are a sideshow in comparison, (just compare the tv audience numbers)  mostly filled with guys out of of the European series.

 

F1 has virtually no presence here in the US - The races are on at crazy hours, DVR is your friend. I have seen all the races this year, quali, and practices, but only seen two of them live. (I live on the west coast.)

 

NASCAR has such a big presence here that "Name" Indycar drivers are virtual unknowns. F1 drivers basically do not exist. F1 is some racing series they all do in europe...

 

As a result the vast majority of up and coming american drivers aspire to be big in NASCAR. Guys like Rossi are anomalies.

 

With the majority of young racers here trying to go for NASCAR, the talent pool for american F1 prospects is extremely shallow.

 

So don't hold your breath for an American driver to make waves in F1 anytime soon...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely true. It is difficult from a European perspective to comprehend how low a profile F1 has in the US sports scene. Michael Schumacher at the height of his fame, stood in line at a Texas race facility, waiting for a demo lap and nobody recognized him. He enjoyed vacationing there because no one would bother him.

There are F1 enthusiasts for sure, with 330+ million people even 4% would constitute a sizable audience, It's just that F1 is a niche sport and information must come from sites like this one, or specialty publications.

USA is unique in that top driving talent, sponsorship and race engineering gravitate to sedan racing. NASCAR has some very talented drivers, but oval sedan racing is not a logical preparation for F1. The converse is that aging F1 talent find it very hard to race competively in NASCAR.

 

As for Indy Car, I saw nothing in last week's Toronto race to quicken the pulse of any Grand Prix spotter. F Scott Fitzgearald said "There are no second acts in American lives". Likewise IndyCar is not going to return to the CART days of the 90s, when it could be reasonably  viewed as tier 2 in world racing, and there was a credible exchange of top drivers.

 

I suspect there are very talented Americans racing in sprint cars, dirt track etc somewhat off the radar. Some of these people may be good enough for F1, but their ability to attract team managers is a very tough obstacle to overcome. 

 

Having a permanent American GP in Austin should help somewhat in the long run, but I don't for see Americans racing competively in F1 in the near future.



#24 maximilian

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 17:27

Unfortunately, he will stay in NASCAR

 

 

Yeah, what a waste.  I've said it before, but he should jump to F1 if there is a chance.  He can always go back to NASCAR if it doesn't work out later... instead of wasting his youth there.



#25 ebc

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 20:01

I don't think there will be an American driver racing in F1 for the foreseeable future, NASCAR has everything they would want and it is an easier path to the top.

 

The best young American talent will be snatched up by NASCAR teams sooner or later, guys like Kyle Larson and Chase Elliot get to race 30 or 40 times a year, earn millions of dollars and have a great lifestyle, to risk that for a shot at F1 would not make much sense.   



#26 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 21:16

Yeah, what a waste.  I've said it before, but he should jump to F1 if there is a chance.  He can always go back to NASCAR if it doesn't work out later... instead of wasting his youth there.

Wasting his youth...riiiiight...

He's already banking millions, with millions to come for +/- 20 years in NASCAR.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone racing in the US to waste their youth in F1.

There is far more money, far more racing and far less aggravation for US drivers to even think about going to F1.

Oh yeah, one other thing, they can eat all the steaks, burgers, fries and ice cream they want while racing in the US and pound a few beers after a hard race without a team manager pissing and moaning about it.


Edited by whitewaterMkII, 26 July 2014 - 21:18.


#27 pingu666

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 21:38

nascar is probably a better demonstrator of skill than f1 :/



#28 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 21:50

Yeah but there is still Indycar. Would it be more difficult for a good IndyCar driver to switch to F1 than say, for a GP2 driver? Seems to me it could even be easier nowadays, as for example IndyCar drivers are used to saving fuel.

I think Bourdais did a better job in that regard than he was ever given credit for. Although he's not just any driver and was obviously not american.

Saving fuel is not a massive issue in F1. Its something the drivers have to do to a degree, but its nothing like in IndyCar where its a priority skill.

But that's not really the big issue. Its the talent. IndyCar is probably comparable with GP2 to be honest. Maybe a little better on average, but not much.
 

*ahem.. off topic*
 American soccer (MLS) is actually growing because they do not directly compete with American football, Baseball, or Basket ball for the same athletic talent.

They really do. American football is not all about big hulking monsters. And baseball certainly absorbs soccer talent. Don't forget that bodytype is something that can be shaped by diet and exercise. Basketball is probably a lesser thing, but a ~6'0" white guy can still find room on a basketball team, especially in high school.
 

nascar is probably a better demonstrator of skill than f1 :/

Pretty sure 95% of NASCAR driver would embarrass themselves in F1 if they tried to make the switch. I don't think the same could be said of the reverse.

Edited by Seanspeed, 26 July 2014 - 21:52.


#29 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 21:56

I think you'd be embarassed if you took up that bet. Hell, Montoya looked pretty average in NASCAR most of the time.



#30 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 22:31

Eddie Cheever 3?

Racing in Europe I think.

 

Rossi has the super licence, experience etc. He's the clear favorite plus an F1 veteran will be Haas' path.



#31 Seanspeed

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 22:36

I think you'd be embarassed if you took up that bet. Hell, Montoya looked pretty average in NASCAR most of the time.

Did he embarrass himself, though?

#32 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 23:06

No he just looked a lot less superhuman. Which any Cup driver would if they went to Formula 1. But Montoya finished 5th in this year's Indy 500 with Kurt Busch 6th. So there's some talent there.



#33 maximilian

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 23:34

Wasting his youth...riiiiight...

He's already banking millions, with millions to come for +/- 20 years in NASCAR.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone racing in the US to waste their youth in F1.

There is far more money, far more racing and far less aggravation for US drivers to even think about going to F1.

Oh yeah, one other thing, they can eat all the steaks, burgers, fries and ice cream they want while racing in the US and pound a few beers after a hard race without a team manager pissing and moaning about it.

 

Obviously, but this was meant in the context of the topic of this thread.  ;)



#34 Spillage

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 23:55

Austin Dillon would fit F1 hand in glove.

If Haas were to sign an American driver that'd make an impact in the US I think it would have to be somebody who already has a presence in the US. Most likely, that means a NASCAR driver. All of Haas' current NASCAR guys are too old to make a switch, but I think Dillon could make a decent go of it.

 

But then, I think the premise of the OP is flawed. If Haas are looking for talent, why would they restrict themselves to American drivers? And if they're looking for presence Stateside, why would they bother to scour the European single-seater ladder?



#35 William Hunt

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 23:56

Ryan Hunter-Reay will be 35 in 2016 when Haas enters F1 so I doubt he will be considered.
I don't think Josef Newgarden is good enough for F1 either since he was very unimpressive (18th overall) in GP3.
Would be interesting to give Sage Karam a test.
Alexander Rossi and Conor Daly are the best prospects to enter F1 with Haas as young American talent.



#36 pingu666

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 00:09

the skill sets are even more different now, but a cup car is a pig of car (less so now than the gen 1) with more power, weight, less aero + side force, manual gearbox (not much of a factor most of the time) but very high average speeds. and alot of the drivers grew up on the dirt tracks on insane sprint cars.

 

so the two area's they may fall down on would be all the data stuff in f1 now, and perhaps the sheer speed of a f1 car or its huge downforce, as some people dont transition well to those bits anyways



#37 fer312t

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:06

Eddie Cheever 3?

Racing in Europe I think.

 

Think he races pretty exclusively under the Italian flag - and looks like his single seater-career is probably already over anyway.



#38 Gyan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:16

What do people think about Sage Karam? He's just 19 and as an Indylights winner, it'd be interesting to see what he can do in an F1 car.

 

Taking a punt on him and hiring another experienced F1 driver would make a good driver pairing for Haas IMO.


Edited by Gyan, 27 July 2014 - 02:18.


#39 HaydenFan

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:21

I don't think there will be an American driver racing in F1 for the foreseeable future, NASCAR has everything they would want and it is an easier path to the top.

 

The best young American talent will be snatched up by NASCAR teams sooner or later, guys like Kyle Larson and Chase Elliot get to race 30 or 40 times a year, earn millions of dollars and have a great lifestyle, to risk that for a shot at F1 would not make much sense.   

 

But those kids, and the one's who are 18, 19, 20 in NASCAR already, are their because they want to be there. Chase Elliott's father is a NASCAR champ. Same with Ryan Blaney. Kyle Larson races midgets, and sprints, which is really no longer considered a training ground for IndyCar and beyond. 

 

I think if the kids want to race single seaters, they will be able to say no to the ever tempting (and actually just as poorly paying) NASCAR. Conor Daly, Alexander Rossi, earlier with John Edwards, Charlie Kimball, and Josef Newgarden.

 

Sage Karam just needs to get into a car more. While great results this year, sitting out can do more damage than good. And from what I've seen in interviews, while pretty media savvy (trained through 3 seasons running cars for Andretti Autosport), he hasn't expressed any known interest in F1. He sees IndyCar as his goal, and if that means running sportscars for Chip Ganassi (as well as a partially funded Indy 500 from Cheap), so be it. 


Edited by HaydenFan, 27 July 2014 - 02:25.