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Team orders: did Hamilton make the right call?


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Poll: Multi 21 (618 member(s) have cast votes)

Did Hamilton make the right decision NOT to let Rosberg through?

  1. Voted Yes (512 votes [82.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.85%

  2. No (106 votes [17.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.15%

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#1051 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:18

of course rosberg could have stopped once at that point, all he had to do was pit later on his 2nd stop.

 

rosberg's first softs were a lap younger than lewis's.
 

He was called in as Vergne was ahead, so was running slower than optimum. Nothing new, teams have switched strategies mid-race all the time, and 38 laps remained. A few too many for either soft or medium tyres. However, why have mediums when you will have to stop twice anyways?



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#1052 f1RacingForever

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:08

“At the start of the season, Paddy and I agreed a clear policy with the drivers that they are free to race for the win – as long as they are fighting for it,” Wolff said. “Equally, we have been clear that our priority as a team is always to give ourselves the best chance of winning the race – no matter which driver is fighting for it.

“The calls Paddy and the team on the pit wall made on Sunday were completely in line with our policy. And so, our drivers will continue to be free to race for the remainder of the 2014 championship; and they will be racing to win"

 

This is funny on many levels, he is a complete idiot

Well was Lewis racing for the win? Realistically no. Even less so depending on when he got his fuel pressure problem which might have factored into the decision to let Nico past. Assuming that was the reason for the team order, then Toto's comment makes sense. In fact, that's probably the most reasonable explanation for the team order.


Edited by f1RacingForever, 01 August 2014 - 04:13.


#1053 Paul McLucas

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:13

Well was Lewis racing for the win?

Lewis could have won the race if MGP had handled things better.

 

This would have been the first time in F1 history that a race had been won from the pit lane and a massive PR coup for MB.

 

They screwed the pooch royally.

 

By the way, who would buy a Mercedes? The brakes fail and they catch fire.  Pretty basic problems.


Edited by Paul McLucas, 01 August 2014 - 04:14.


#1054 f1RacingForever

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:22

Lewis could have won the race if MGP had handled things better.

 

This would have been the first time in F1 history that a race had been won from the pit lane and a massive PR coup for MB.

 

They screwed the pooch royally.

 

By the way, who would buy a Mercedes? The brakes fail and they catch fire.  Pretty basic problems.

I agree that had he been put on softs for the last stint he might have won, given that his tires would have lasted for 31 laps of course. Would have been marginal. Nico was only able to do 24 laps on his set of softs before his last pitstop.That said, i think he would have done it....just. This is still a "what if" scenario and has no relevance on what happened.



#1055 robefc

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:20

Well was Lewis racing for the win? Realistically no. Even less so depending on when he got his fuel pressure problem which might have factored into the decision to let Nico past. Assuming that was the reason for the team order, then Toto's comment makes sense. In fact, that's probably the most reasonable explanation for the team order.


I think the most reasonable explanation is that they didn't know which strategy would play out best and they wanted to optimise each drivers race baed on their strategy to give the team the best chance of the win.

Letting Nico through obviously compromises Lewis's race a lot less than holding Nico up compromises Nico's.

Plus, at the rate Nico was catching, they probably thought it was just a case of not defending from Nico as opposed to slowing down for him.

#1056 peroa

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:47

Well was Lewis racing for the win? Realistically no. Even less so depending on when he got his fuel pressure problem which might have factored into the decision to let Nico past. Assuming that was the reason for the team order, then Toto's comment makes sense. In fact, that's probably the most reasonable explanation for the team order.

If Lew didn't have a chance than Nico had absolutely none whatsoever.



#1057 Riverside

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:30

Tid bits of lap times - you can make your own judgement .

 

 

  Rosberg caught up  Lewis at lap 45 > to which the gap to Alonso was 2.338 -  down from 4.663 from Lewis's pit stop on lap 39 ...

 

   Once Rosberg caught Lewis - the gap to Alonso for Lewis grew back to 3.913 ,  until Rosberg pitted and immediately on the next

lap Lewis 7 faster laps than Alonso to reduce the gap to . 5 s ..................... 

 

  Not only did Lewis refuse team orders (I voted he did the right thing)  - his race craft was excellent to back Nico further during that 

time and once Nico pitted hit the hammer to ensure Nico would not pass after his pit stop .  



#1058 peroa

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:35

What a cerebral ba****d... :wave:



#1059 Timstr11

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 18:37

For the record,

Daimler AG boss Dieter Zetsche  understands Hamilton's refusal to let Rosberg through:

 

 

 "Am vergangenen Sonntag gab es keine Behinderungssituation, die beiden waren ja nicht Stoßstange an Stoßstange. Deshalb kann ich gut verstehen, dass Lewis nicht gebremst hat, um Nico vorbei zu lassen", sagt Zetsche im Interview mit der 'Bild am Sonntag'.

 

translation:

"Last Sunday there was no holding up, the two were not really bumper to bumper. Which is why I can understand well that Lewis did not slow down to let Nico past", said Zetsche in an interview with 'Bild am Sonntag'.

 

This is especially a message to those who think that there will be 'consequences' for Hamilton.

Also for those who use the 'marketing' argument that Mercedes wanting to maximize points above all.

http://www.motorspor...n-14080409.html


Edited by Timstr11, 04 August 2014 - 18:39.


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#1060 milestone 11

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 18:55

Maybe the wolff has met his lumberjack   ;)



#1061 f1RacingForever

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 03:58

If Lew didn't have a chance than Nico had absolutely none whatsoever.

Nico definitely had a chance at the win. There would not have been team orders if he didn't. It was a small chance but it was still realistically possible nonetheless.



#1062 f1RacingForever

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:09

For the record,

Daimler AG boss Dieter Zetsche  understands Hamilton's refusal to let Rosberg through:

 

 

This is especially a message to those who think that there will be 'consequences' for Hamilton.

Also for those who use the 'marketing' argument that Mercedes wanting to maximize points above all.

http://www.motorspor...n-14080409.html

Problem is Mr Zetsche is not in charge of the team, toto is. What he says goes. Cool heads will prevail and there will be no consequences. The team surely would have learned from this.



#1063 f1RacingForever

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:13

I think the most reasonable explanation is that they didn't know which strategy would play out best and they wanted to optimise each drivers race baed on their strategy to give the team the best chance of the win.

Letting Nico through obviously compromises Lewis's race a lot less than holding Nico up compromises Nico's.

Plus, at the rate Nico was catching, they probably thought it was just a case of not defending from Nico as opposed to slowing down for him.

What you say makes sense but honestly its too hard to tell what the team were thinking. Only thing I'm sure of is that trying to let nico thru was a mistake.



#1064 Timstr11

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:36

Problem is Mr Zetsche is not in charge of the team, toto is. What he says goes. Cool heads will prevail and there will be no consequences. The team surely would have learned from this.

 

Sad if you really believe that what the Mercedes CEO thinks does not matter.

 

And BTW, Mercedes AMG F1 does not have one singular boss. It's a duo leadership by Toto and Paddy. Toto is not Paddy's boss and the racing happens to be Paddy's turf.

 

Unfortunately Paddy leaves all the talking to Toto, which does not make him look strong or like he's in charge of things. The duo leadership is the reason Brawn left early (but that's another story).


Edited by Timstr11, 05 August 2014 - 05:39.


#1065 baddog

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:11

Of course there will be no consequences in terms of team managment, punishments, stupid **** like that. The only obvious consequence is if Hamilton is on a different strat and needs to get by he will have to work harder for it.



#1066 f1RacingForever

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:18

Sad if you really believe that what the Mercedes CEO thinks does not matter.

 

And BTW, Mercedes AMG F1 does not have one singular boss. It's a duo leadership by Toto and Paddy. Toto is not Paddy's boss and the racing happens to be Paddy's turf.

 

Unfortunately Paddy leaves all the talking to Toto, which does not make him look strong or like he's in charge of things. The duo leadership is the reason Brawn left early (but that's another story).

I disagree. Toto is part owner of Mercedes f1, it's my understanding that Paddy isn't so at the end of the day Toto has more authority. Still, this is Paddy's mess so it's his responsibility to fix it. Problem is Paddy is too much of a nice guy. Neither would have dared to ignore had the instruction come from Ross. When Ross said something, you did it. Neither Toto or Paddy have that kind of authority.



#1067 RubalSher

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:06

Nico definitely had a chance at the win. There would not have been team orders if he didn't. It was a small chance but it was still realistically possible nonetheless.

 

Theoretically even Chilton had a chance. Point being made is Lewis was in with a much more realistic chance than Nico ever was after Nico's 2nd pit stop that forced him onto a 3 stopper.

 

In hindsight it looks closer but until RIC passed HAM, 5 laps from the end, HAM was in with a shout of a win and Nico was nowhere. All Lewis needed was tyres that might have held out more than they eventually did and he could have passed Alonso and kept RIC behind for a win.



#1068 DrProzac

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:28

Rosberg haven't had the pace to challenge Hamilton. He wasn't close enough to really blame Lewis for ignoring team orders (he did't defend or anything at that moment, he was just maintaining his pace).



#1069 peroa

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:42

I disagree. Toto is part owner of Mercedes f1, it's my understanding that Paddy isn't so at the end of the day Toto has more authority. Still, this is Paddy's mess so it's his responsibility to fix it. Problem is Paddy is too much of a nice guy. Neither would have dared to ignore had the instruction come from Ross. When Ross said something, you did it. Neither Toto or Paddy have that kind of authority.

That's unclear, when Lauda and Toto were announced it was said that they have the intention of buying a certain percentage.

Even though, it doesn't really matter, the +200 mio € come from Daimler in Stuttgart, Dr. Z  is the big boss.



#1070 Timstr11

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 16:33

I disagree. Toto is part owner of Mercedes f1, it's my understanding that Paddy isn't so at the end of the day Toto has more authority. Still, this is Paddy's mess so it's his responsibility to fix it. Problem is Paddy is too much of a nice guy. Neither would have dared to ignore had the instruction come from Ross. When Ross said something, you did it. Neither Toto or Paddy have that kind of authority.

You cannot disagree with something that is FACT.

 

Lookup the press release in which the Mercedes board announced the co-leadership. I'm not going to do it for you.

Toto owns a minority stake in the business, but that does not automatically mean he formally is the boss. 

In any case, his role as Executive Director Business gives him enough leverage to control the financial side of the business.

But technical direction and race engineering are Paddy Lowe's responsibility and he answers to the Mercedes board.



#1071 f1RacingForever

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 18:43

You cannot disagree with something that is FACT.

Lookup the press release in which the Mercedes board announced the co-leadership. I'm not going to do it for you.
Toto owns a minority stake in the business, but that does not automatically mean he formally is the boss.
In any case, his role as Executive Director Business gives him enough leverage to control the financial side of the business.
But technical direction and race engineering are Paddy Lowe's responsibility and he answers to the Mercedes board.

I'm well aware of how things work down at Mercedes.

#1072 loki

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 00:20

That's unclear, when Lauda and Toto were announced it was said that they have the intention of buying a certain percentage.

Even though, it doesn't really matter, the +200 mio € come from Daimler in Stuttgart, Dr. Z  is the big boss.

There were press reports at the time that indicated Susie's husband owns 30% of Mercedes GP.  I don't believe The Rat owns any stake in the company.  Wolf may be a money guy but in terms of race operations it appears from the outside that it's Lauda's show regardless of any job title.



#1073 Clatter

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 11:01

There were press reports at the time that indicated Susie's husband owns 30% of Mercedes GP.  I don't believe The Rat owns any stake in the company.  Wolf may be a money guy but in terms of race operations it appears from the outside that it's Lauda's show regardless of any job title.

http://adamcooperf1....1-shareholders/

 

I think they both have shares, but not as much as 30%.