Edited by milestone 11, 01 August 2014 - 10:38.
Could McLaren's partnership with Honda be shorter than we think.
#1
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:34
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#2
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:46
"With the current performance of the once great Mclaren proving so disappointing – in a field of four Mercedes powered cars – and Ron Deniis returning to steady the helm despite Honda having signed the contract with his predecessor – Martin Whitmarsh – it has been suggested that Honda is looking to become a partner to Red Bull after their exclusive one year deal with Mclaren expires."
If McLaren / Honda have an exclusive deal for 2015, then Red Bull can't be Honda powered in 2015 as the article header suggests......but contracts can easily be broken.....
Edited by Dick Dastardly, 31 July 2014 - 17:48.
#3
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:48
We have to wait and see if any team would match Mercedes. I don't think Honda will be 100% on the pace with Mercedes for 2015. I expect Mercedes to be the best engine for 2015 and beyond that.
Maybe this is a sign that Renault is gone from F1 if they lose Red Bull? If Honda doesn't like McLaren's performance, then maybe McLaren-Renault powered car will happen in the future.
Edited by George Costanza, 31 July 2014 - 17:50.
#4
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:54
"it has been suggested that Honda is looking to become a partner to Red Bull after their exclusive one year deal with Mclaren expires."
Suggested by whom, would be my question. This seems ostensibly like baseless speculation.
I would add: the whole samurai thing sounds like total horseshit to me.
Edited by Coops3, 31 July 2014 - 17:55.
#5
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:54
Somehow it seems silly to go to so much trouble to leave a sinking ship just to land on a sinking island.
#6
Posted 31 July 2014 - 17:56
"With the current performance of the once great Mclaren proving so disappointing – in a field of four Mercedes powered cars – and Ron Deniis returning to steady the helm despite Honda having signed the contract with his predecessor – Martin Whitmarsh – it has been suggested that Honda is looking to become a partner to Red Bull after their exclusive one year deal with Mclaren expires."
If McLaren / Honda have an exclusive deal for 2015, then Red Bull can't be Honda powered in 2015 as the article header suggests......but contracts can easily be broken.....
It suggests nothing of the sort, the wording of the article suggests that Honda might jump ship after the one year exclusive deal with McLaren is up. Frankly there's a lot of speculation here with little proof or even talk from "inside sources", all it's got is Red Bull backing the Honda MotoGP team.
Edited by Imateria, 31 July 2014 - 17:56.
#7
Posted 31 July 2014 - 18:55
What have Honda to gain with Red Bull? All in all, that team still remains a drinks company who could quit the sport at anytime.
Also, I doubt McLaren would 'allow' just a one year exclusive deal with Honda. Even if they did, McLaren would still stay number one for Honda.
#8
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:01
#9
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:18
Nonsense
#10
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:24
...
A reasonable question, which has received no answer but just fanned the flames of speculation is, why not Woking? Honda have decided to complete the design work in Japan,<out of arse speculation removed>, but the engines will be worked on at this new facility which is scheduled to go live in January 2015.
....
Wot????
It's very simple. Even I know why - and I know less than ****.
The new facility in Milton Keynes has been built for WTTC, Mugen-Honda and F1. The old Mugan-Honda facility was right in the middle of the Cosworth site in Northampton. Mugen_Honda have now recently moved.
They have to find a site relatively near the old facility so that the workers do not have to re-locate (ie. sell/buy houses etc). The new facility is only 20 miles away from the old one so workers can still commute without moving house. Plus that area houses many specialist engineers.
The usual TJ13 quality article. (/sarcasm)
p.s. An elephant has four legs, so has a table - does that make an elephant a type of table?... hmmm..
EDIT: Just checked - the McLaren-Honda partnership is signed for 10 years.
Edited by WitnessX, 31 July 2014 - 19:43.
#11
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:28
When Honda announced their return to Formula One, they made it in conjunction with their previous partner Mclaren. Their record of success in the late 80’s/ early 90’s made icons of the cars and drivers. As ever all cycles come to an end and the baton of domination passed to Wiliams-Renault. Honda pulled out and their efforts since have been half-hearted at best.
Actually Honda were not half hearted in 00s. Quite opposite. It's just that it didnt yield success unfortunately. It will be long to explain this so i wouldnt bother here. Anyway fail to win is easier cos this is a competition.
Ayrton Senna, arguably the greatest driver in the history of the sport, was a fundamental part of their success, and his mindset mirrored the Japanese Samurai perfectly. Therefore it is only certain drivers that would be acceptable to the Japanese manufacturer – hence the approaches to Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton and Sebastien Vettel. Obviously Jenson Button doesn’t figure highly in their plans.
Things like samurai, bushido and ninja are all fabrication, I'm telling you. Fantasy. It's kind of similar to wizard in uk or europe. Take what you see in samurai movies and books or whatever hearsay exact same as how you see harry potter, gladiator or pirates of caribbean.
Sure Senna was special for Honda, but remember that Senna himself was special like absolutely no other, he wouldve been special to any manufacturers.
Briefly discussed this in 2015 driver thread recently, but Honda wanting star driver is quite overrated, or more a misinterpretation from what they said about their wish for driver. Actually they merely said they want best driver possible and anyone would say that. All those talks about Honda badly pressuring Mclaren to sign Alonso but there's absolutely no base for that.
Another aspect of their return which has caused many rumours to take hold of on-lookers is the fact that Honda is building it’s engine facility in Milton Keynes. A mere stone’s throw from the Red Bull headquarters.
Milton Keynes is kind of one of industry districts in UK isnt it? So just because it's near Red Bull doesnt mean much. Also remember that new Honda/Mugen Milton Keynes factory is a base for Honda/Mugen's comprehensive motor sport activities, including F1, WTCC, or whatever everything.
Of some interest to all this scenario is that the Honda MotoGP team have signed a deal with Red Bull for 2015 and 2016. It’s fair to point out that Red Bull have been sponsoring riders individually since Nicky Hayden rode for Honda in 2006, in much the same way that Red Bull first appeared in Formula One as a driver sponsor of Gerhard Berger.
For the company like Red Bull, actually sticking with the same manufacturer across genre isnt good thing. Varying association portfolio to extend reach as much as possible is the strategy to take for them. At motogp they go with Honda but at another field they partner with someone else or do sth else. In F1 renault, maybe in the future Audi is more likely than Honda imo. It doesnt conflict with their interest at all, quite opposite. Petronas is with Merc in F1/DTM but in Japan they are with Lexus/Toyota. There are plenty of such examples where one company sponsor A in this but B in that.
Anyway, sure in F1 anything can happen. But even if Red Bull Honda happen, it will be because of development of situation and relationship, not because new Honda factory is in MK or RedBull Repsol Honda at MotoGP.
#12
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:31
It suggests nothing of the sort, the wording of the article suggests that Honda might jump ship after the one year exclusive deal with McLaren is up. Frankly there's a lot of speculation here with little proof or even talk from "inside sources", all it's got is Red Bull backing the Honda MotoGP team.
The article header says "Red Bull-Honda negotiate a contract for 2015-16"......2015 is supposedly exclusively McLaren / Honda, so the earliest it could happen is 2016 [unless that McLaren / Honda contract is broken]. That's what I was getting at in my earlier post
Edited by Dick Dastardly, 31 July 2014 - 19:40.
#13
Posted 31 July 2014 - 19:33
"it has been suggested that Honda is looking to become a partner to Red Bull after their exclusive one year deal with Mclaren expires."
Suggested by whom, would be my question. This seems ostensibly like baseless speculation.
I would add: the whole samurai thing sounds like total horseshit to me.
It was said by someone reasonably high up from Honda (well racing division)... so no horse manure as you would like to imagine It was said by Kawamoto to Prost about how engineers back in Japan saw Senna. This was when Prost asked him if Honda was favouring Senna. I typed this, as i don't know if you're aware of this...
I don't know if Honda want to partner with RBR, but RBR may actively be looking for a PU supplier. I doubt that Ferrari or Mercedes will help... so that leaves Honda and Renault who they're with already. If Honda will be supplying teams, as they are required to, then why work with teams at the back of the grid? A team which can make a car potentially to run at the front of the grid is a better one to work with. All of this, as you said, and i agree, is speculation.
#14
Posted 31 July 2014 - 21:01
#15
Posted 31 July 2014 - 21:06
I echo Coops3's question, it has been suggested by whom? They have a 10-year deal that stipulates works team partnership and Honda chose to have only one customer in 2015. If they want to have another customer beyond 2015 is up to Honda and it doesn't mean McLaren will lose their status as the works team.I don't know how it’s been changed to this.
I hope you're not asking me, as i also said that it seemed like speculation at best.
#16
Posted 31 July 2014 - 21:07
Ah, The "Renault problems are catastrophic" Judge 13. Yeah, what a reliable source.
Sounds like someone put 2 and 2 together and got 22.
#17
Posted 31 July 2014 - 21:11
The only fact the whole story is based on is the location of the factory.
#18
Posted 31 July 2014 - 21:26
I hope you're not asking me, as i also said that it seemed like speculation at best.
No, it was a general question.
#19
Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:57
If I was Honda it is a no brainer...
> Red Bull have lots of money
> At McLaren, Honda have (to more or less) pay for everything.
At Red Bull, everything Honda pays is bonus on top of Red Bull's already huge budget.
Red Bull - Honda FTW
< Honda fanatic here
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#20
Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:59
What have Honda to gain with Red Bull? All in all, that team still remains a drinks company who could quit the sport at anytime.
Also, I doubt McLaren would 'allow' just a one year exclusive deal with Honda. Even if they did, McLaren would still stay number one for Honda.
McLaren are rubbish... they are luck to get anything
#21
Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:13
One interesting point is that to enter the championship a manufacturer is required to provide PUs to between 2-4 competitors, with special dispensation by the FIA required to fall outside that range. Ie. it's within FIA power to remove said dispensation in order to push Honda to supply a second team in 2015.
#22
Posted 01 August 2014 - 06:41
One interesting point is that to enter the championship a manufacturer is required to provide PUs to between 2-4 competitors, with special dispensation by the FIA required to fall outside that range. Ie. it's within FIA power to remove said dispensation in order to push Honda to supply a second team in 2015.
But if the rest of the grid are already spoken for, Honda can't supply any more.
Mercedes have 4 - Mercedes, Williams, Force India and Lotus (as far as we know)
Ferrari have 3 - Ferrari, Marussia, Sauber (and most likely Haas from 2016)
Renault have 3 - Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Caterham
Honda are just taking that spot that Renault have left open, especially considering Haas are almost certain to take Ferrari up to 4... so in that case Honda by 'requirement' have to pinch a customer off the others... hardly seems fair on the others does it. It adds more competition to the market but if the customer teams are happy with their current supplier why should the regs force them to change? I think the rules are there more to make sure that PU manufacturers have the facility to provide for multiple customers and don't just stick an engine department on the side on their preferred team's factory.
#23
Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:08
Does such a rule as minimum supply requirement really exist?
Actually that's what engine supplier should want, rather than enforced by rule. Engine supplier makes more money by supplying engines to more teams. Like Cosworth. They needed 3 or 4 teams to break even. Renault seems to be wanting to increase fee or supply to even more teams to reduce loss. It's actually supplier demand rather than vice versa.
For Honda situation is bit different. For their first year Honda has to put resource into solely focusing on co-development with McLaren, they are not prepared to supply more than one team atm, but even if they think one works team is enough and optimal from marketing / technical point of view and stick with one team supply, it's just up to them. Or not?
#24
Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:12
I think that the manufacturers just have to demonstrate to the FIA that they have the ability to supply more than one team. Who they supply is up to the manufacturer surely.
#25
Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:49
What have Honda to gain with Red Bull? All in all, that team still remains a drinks company who could quit the sport at anytime.
Also, I doubt McLaren would 'allow' just a one year exclusive deal with Honda. Even if they did, McLaren would still stay number one for Honda.
Red Bull even owes an racing track that can run F1 races, why would they quit any time soon?
#26
Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:14
Typical TJ13 traffic seeking article BS.
#27
Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:18
And yet they predicted the massive problems Renault were going to have this year well before it was common knowledge.
I don't know what links they have into F1, but they are amazingly well informed on occasion.
Edited by BCM, 01 August 2014 - 08:18.
#28
Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:44
Red Bull even owes an racing track that can run F1 races, why would they quit any time soon?
Well Honda owns Suzuka & it did not stop them quitting at the end of 2008 ....
#29
Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:25
I am surprised so many people question the Samurai quote. Its pretty well documented that Honda loved Senna because of his work ethics and drive/determination. Not that other drivers were necessarily slackers but both Prost and Piquet were older men who had already tasted success. Senna was younger, hungrier and tbh, slightly mad and thus simply clicked with the Japanese mindset (my colleague recently returned back to Japan and now works until 05:00, goes home to sleep a few hours and returns to work by 10:00.....).
The Red Bull angle has been used before. For example, RB sponsors the VW rally cars so Audi would provide a F1 engine.....didn't happen either.
It is however very likely that McLaren won't have exclusive engines indefinately. Honda will soon spread the risk by adding another team, as it did in the past. That way, McLaren is spurred on and Honda has another iron in the fire.
The only thing that surprises me is why Button isn't getting any love? In the past, he was Honda's fair headed boy.....
#30
Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:44
TJ13 actively encourages reposting of their stuff provided that they are acknowledged,
Given the article, you'd think they'd be diving for cover...
#31
Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:43
Typical TJ13 traffic seeking article BS.
That sums it up nicely.
#32
Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:45
Please feel free to fire all the flak that most of the posters on this and the Hamilton/Rosberg threads appear to want to do.
Edit,
The editing of this post was carried out as most of the more unpleasant flak was subsequently removed making this post unintelligible. The O/P has been deleted and replaced with a hot link, but for those late to the party, the original TJ13 article appeared for which both I and TJ13 were ridiculed and abused. I shall make a point in future to not enlighten with TJ13 articles irrespective of the weight that they may carry.
Please bear in mind that one of the articles that was endlessly ridiculed initially, the Mercedes about turn on their team orders stance, was ultimately available from several sources.
Edited by milestone 11, 02 August 2014 - 10:10.
#33
Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:59
Fire all the flak that most of the posters on this thread appear to want to do. The O/P has been deleted and replaced with a hot link.
For all the ridicule that was directed at both me and TJ13 yesterday, I shall make a point of doing what I have for the last couple of years, i.e. remain firmly seated in the Paddock Club.
Please bear in mind that one of the articles that was endlessly ridiculed initially was ultimately available from several sources.
please..close this **** thread
#34
Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:59
p.s. An elephant has four legs, so has a table - does that make an elephant a type of table?... hmmm..
Yes, but not a very good table.
An unstable table....Mabel.
#35
Posted 01 August 2014 - 13:47
What has Honda linking up with Red Bull got to do with their deal with McLaren? I would welcome Red Bull being a partner with Honda, along with McLaren. It would only add to the competitiveness of the engine.
Having said that, the source is not exactly what I would call reliable
#36
Posted 01 August 2014 - 14:40
But if the rest of the grid are already spoken for, Honda can't supply any more.
Mercedes have 4 - Mercedes, Williams, Force India and Lotus (as far as we know)
Ferrari have 3 - Ferrari, Marussia, Sauber (and most likely Haas from 2016)
Renault have 3 - Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Caterham
Honda are just taking that spot that Renault have left open, especially considering Haas are almost certain to take Ferrari up to 4... so in that case Honda by 'requirement' have to pinch a customer off the others... hardly seems fair on the others does it. It adds more competition to the market but if the customer teams are happy with their current supplier why should the regs force them to change? I think the rules are there more to make sure that PU manufacturers have the facility to provide for multiple customers and don't just stick an engine department on the side on their preferred team's factory.
This is what red bull know and could be holding out on honda for a better deal.
The only other option would be cosworth they are ready to go with no teams but looking at the problems at caterham have financially they could go for deal with cosworth just to save cash
Red bull breaking the McLaren 10 year deal would likely go down well with McLaren shareholders any one know what it would cost to break ?
Edited by iii, 01 August 2014 - 14:49.
#37
Posted 01 August 2014 - 14:47
#38
Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:35
What have Honda to gain with Red Bull? All in all, that team still remains a drinks company who could quit the sport at anytime.
Also, I doubt McLaren would 'allow' just a one year exclusive deal with Honda. Even if they did, McLaren would still stay number one for Honda.
Just like Benetton then who were "just a fashion brand", and Honda themselves, who along with Toyota and BMW, pulled out at short notice from 2008-2009. Red Bull have invested a great deal into the sport, and continue to do so even after all their success. It's difficult to watch any major category of motorsport without seeing their branding. It could get to the point I suppose where they see diminishing returns from their involvement in F1 and decide to focus on other categories, as BMW did, but that same principle applies to any big firm or team involved in F1. It's been at least 5 years of people saying that Red Bull could pull out at any time, they're still here.
This is speculation on my part obviously, just as the second part of your post was, but to turn it around, why would Honda allow an exclusive deal with McLaren for only one year, given the amount of money they are putting into McLaren, and the fact that McLaren had a medicore 2013 and were, with the exception of 2012, generally outclassed by Red Bull or others since 2009? Honda may repeat what they did with BAR and Jordan in the early 2000s and supply both teams, then back the team they perceive to give them the best chance of winning.
Of course, this news story could be baseless but I wouldn't dismiss it just because it''s Red Bull. I think there's a lot of romanticism flying around about the prospects of McLaren-Honda, rumours of Alonso or Vettel joining the team and all the rest. Unlike the 1980s however, McLaren haven't been demonstrably the class of the pitlane, or very competitive at the least, as they were before Honda joined them last time around. They have been struggling relative to their own high standards.
Furthermore, Honda's reputation as an engine supplier in F1 still seems inexplicably, to be surviving on the success of the Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell era. Their return in the 2000s was not a dismal failure by any means but I think their reliability left something to be desired compared to other engines and they seemed to lose ground after the switch to V8s. Some of that could have been aerodynamic superiority in a straight line from the other teams though. In short, McLaren-Honda in 2015 may not be an improvement from McLaren-Mercedes in 2014. I hope that's not the case, but there seems to be a lot of nostalgic optimism similar to when Cosworth returned with Williams for 2006, based on the rather spurious logic that because the DFV was tremendously successful, so too would a 2.4V8 in the 2000s.
Edited by hittheapex, 01 August 2014 - 15:37.
#39
Posted 01 August 2014 - 18:58
Furthermore, Honda's reputation as an engine supplier in F1 still seems inexplicably, to be surviving on the success of the Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell era. Their return in the 2000s was not a dismal failure by any means but I think their reliability left something to be desired compared to other engines and they seemed to lose ground after the switch to V8s. Some of that could have been aerodynamic superiority in a straight line from the other teams though. In short, McLaren-Honda in 2015 may not be an improvement from McLaren-Mercedes in 2014. I hope that's not the case, but there seems to be a lot of nostalgic optimism similar to when Cosworth returned with Williams for 2006, based on the rather spurious logic that because the DFV was tremendously successful, so too would a 2.4V8 in the 2000s.
I am a Honda fan and even I think the optimistic expectations are a little bit high. The Senna era was a long time ago. I'm just happy that Honda is getting back "in the game." I hope their power unit is competitive with Merc, of course, but that will take time. And I do hope McLaren gets it together, too.
#41
Posted 01 August 2014 - 23:19
It is very well possible that if 2015 is bad for Renault engines teams, Redbull goes for Honda in 2016.
#42
Posted 02 August 2014 - 14:02
It works out better for Redbull if McLaren are the guinea pig because the first year will be rough in terms of reliability. Or at least.. it COULD be. Honda, whenever there are rules changes and new concepts have always been pretty notorious for "lunching engines" and creating BBQ's. In 2005 both Ant and Button's engines caught fire within the same 5 mins. By memory there were some issues in 2006 as well. And it never seemed to be talked about as one of the most powerful either.
It gives Redbull a flexibility in terms of seeing how Renault goes next year, and also seeing how Honda goes.
#43
Posted 02 August 2014 - 14:08
Red Bull even owes an racing track that can run F1 races, why would they quit any time soon?
The logic baffles me, but I'm sure there could be some sort of reason someone could think up.
If they would leave it would be when on a decline, I'd imagine. This year isn't a decline, it's actually quite impressive given the winter and the engine situation. All the other Renault teams are nowhere.
I've even read some people say they expect them to leave by 2018 or 2019.. how anyone can think that far ahead, I have no idea.
All I know is that the owner is passionate about motorsport and about all sports in general and the association with F1 has already payed off bigtime. Will they always be in F1? Who knows.
But Honda, Toyota and BMW left. Car companies leave too. Ferrari and McLaren and Williams will always be constants but most teams future is uncertain, bar those 3. I'm not sure why Redbull is seen any different. If anything, their finances are more stable than a lot of other F1 teams and it comes down more to a choice.. rather than being forced to stay or leave.
edit - Not even sure why we are discussing it.
Edited by HoldenRT, 02 August 2014 - 14:09.
#44
Posted 02 August 2014 - 14:24
..., but there seems to be a lot of nostalgic optimism similar to when Cosworth returned with Williams for 2006, based on the rather spurious logic that because the DFV was tremendously successful, so too would a 2.4V8 in the 2000s.
I dont see there's a lot of optimism. It's rather a hope. Recent years McLaren have become a customer team. If they continue to be so they will always be one step behind forever development wise. Also finance wise they have to pay for engines. Now they will regain the works status again. So McLaren have at lease one less concern and can set the direction for development and team-making. Most McLaren fans are happy about that, rightly, but not thinking the future is automatically bright, I guess. Anyone know there will be difficulties ahead for them and it will take a lot of efforts to make it right.
#45
Posted 02 August 2014 - 16:47
I think it's pretty hard to be a McLaren fan these days, so take McLaren fans reaction with a grain of salt. The team has underperformed the last 2 years and this year was supposed to be better but it was worse. Honda gives a hope. It's hard to believe that when Lewis first announced going to Merc, most people saw it as a bad decision. Similar to when Alonso went to McLaren from Renault. It's amazing how quickly things change in F1 and then after a few months, suddenly become the norm. Alonso could announce going to Williams and then suddenly next year, they could be winning. That one is far fetched but that's the way F1 is sometimes.
#46
Posted 02 August 2014 - 17:07
It actually makes sense that after one season of re-adapting to F1 Honda will be prepared for further partnerships in 2016 and beyond.
Whether Honda is going to have a long-term future with McLaren or they will switch their attention to someone else, will... of course depend on on-track realities. How good is the chassis of each team, and how good is the power unit. If Honda's PU is great, they will have a better negotiating platform. If their PU is rubbish, Red Bull won't be interested in switching to it and Honda will have trouble keeping their McLaren partnership in harmony as well.
But let's imagine Honda PU is great... Well, let's recall Williams-BMW partnership. It started with great enthusiasm, but eventually BMW got fed up that Williams chassis was never quite up to the same quality and bought Sauber. If Honda feels they could have a more successful partnership with some other team and McLaren can't fix their chassis department issues, then the game is all open.
Of course, by mentioning Williams-BMW another issue could come up. Would Honda want to gradually have more stake/ownership/control within McLaren? That's why Mercedes also left McLaren in the end. Someone like Red Bull might be more prepared to sell their F1 team, when they feel it is "mission completed" for them in F1.
#47
Posted 02 August 2014 - 17:20
I think it's pretty hard to be a McLaren fan these days, so take McLaren fans reaction with a grain of salt. The team has underperformed the last 2 years and this year was supposed to be better but it was worse. Honda gives a hope. It's hard to believe that when Lewis first announced going to Merc, most people saw it as a bad decision. Similar to when Alonso went to McLaren from Renault. It's amazing how quickly things change in F1 and then after a few months, suddenly become the norm. Alonso could announce going to Williams and then suddenly next year, they could be winning. That one is far fetched but that's the way F1 is sometimes.
Times are tough I guess. They can't always be on the front. But to say this year is worse than last year is kind of a stretch tbh. They are restructuring and have made quite a big of changes. At least they are heading somewhere & their simulation model seems to be working - which wasn't the case last year. Sure they might be one position down in the WCC at the end but contrary to last year we don't hear them saying "We have no idea what's going on or why our car is so slow".
However I do share the same concerns about Honda. It's a big unknown but the positives from that are that they have works status which gives them more freedom at the end. But time will tell if the change will be any good.
#48
Posted 02 August 2014 - 23:46
Times are tough I guess. They can't always be on the front. But to say this year is worse than last year is kind of a stretch tbh. They are restructuring and have made quite a big of changes. At least they are heading somewhere & their simulation model seems to be working - which wasn't the case last year. Sure they might be one position down in the WCC at the end but contrary to last year we don't hear them saying "We have no idea what's going on or why our car is so slow".
However I do share the same concerns about Honda. It's a big unknown but the positives from that are that they have works status which gives them more freedom at the end. But time will tell if the change will be any good.
It depends on how you look at it. It is only half-way through the season, but last year they ended up 5th by a clear margin. Currently, this year they are 6th in a close fight with FI. It's not that unreasonable to say that 6th is worse than 5th - but it is only half-way done and things can change.
#49
Posted 03 August 2014 - 00:12
I rather suspect that McLaren have agreed with Honda that almost all their efforts this year will go into building next year's car, and that only developments which are relevant to next year's car will be pursued. For example, improvements to the front wing should carry forward to next year's car.
What they haven't done is to repackage the power unit and cooling system components, which is where the biggest gains this year could possibly be made.
So I don't think Honda will be too unhappy. They'd actually be more worried if they saw a big effort going into the current car.
#50
Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:58
I think it's pretty hard to be a McLaren fan these days, so take McLaren fans reaction with a grain of salt. The team has underperformed the last 2 years and this year was supposed to be better but it was worse. Honda gives a hope. It's hard to believe that when Lewis first announced going to Merc, most people saw it as a bad decision. Similar to when Alonso went to McLaren from Renault. It's amazing how quickly things change in F1 and then after a few months, suddenly become the norm. Alonso could announce going to Williams and then suddenly next year, they could be winning. That one is far fetched but that's the way F1 is sometimes.
The teams with money will usually buy themselves to the front over the medium term. Honda are no doubt turning up with huge finances and enormous technical know how.