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Would Michael Schumacher be in the title fight if he was at MGP?


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#1 George Costanza

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:06

Let's assume Michael was not injured in the accident he had and was with MGP either Hamitlon or Rosberg. I got the desire to ask the community since there is a thread about Mark Webber had he not left Red Bull and on how would be be doing.

 

In that nature, How would Michael be doing in the 2014 Mercedes? I understand he probably too old and all, but he had shown signs of old in 2012; he had pretty lousy luck that season anyhow you say that.

 

Would be ontop of the championship? Would he be able to win it?

To be honest, I don't believe he would hold hold either one of those drivers off. Perhaps a younger age of Michael would easily beat them, say if he was 35 or so (He nearly won the title vs Fernando Alonso in 2006 at the age 37).

 

But I do hold out the chance of possibly because luck or other factors might come into play here.

 

If we would talk is early Ferrari days, I do think no one on today's grid would beat him in a straight fight, including Fernando Alonso.


Edited by George Costanza, 01 August 2014 - 19:14.


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#2 CoolBreeze

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:13

I think the current cars are slightly easier to handle than the 2000s version. SHould be a walk in the park for him. 



#3 Thomas99

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:21

Nico would beat him in the long run, but Michael would be there or thereabouts. If you look at the actual races in 2012 they were pretty much even par.

Had Nico had the run of bad luck I think Michael could have won it.

 

The thing is for Schumacher with 91 victories and 7 titles, would 100 victories and 8 titles really change his legacy at all? 110 victories and 9 titles? Its all the same at that level anyway.



#4 tommi34

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:23

Difficult to say really. I guess he would be in the title fight, mut probably wouldn't lead - or win - the championship.

Anyway Michael's comeback wasn't that bad after all. He was always pretty equal with Nico pace wise, but had just terrible luck which cost him a couple of good results and a lot of points finishes. Of course, Michael did also some mistakes which didn't look good. Anyway I'm sure he could've scored a lot of podiums with the 2013 Mercedes, not just with the dominant car of 2014.



#5 George Costanza

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:28

I think the current cars are slightly easier to handle than the 2000s version. SHould be a walk in the park for him. 

 

That's for sure. It's slower than the 2002-2005 cars with less power and downforce...



#6 bourbon

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:44

Yes of course, without the mistakes.



#7 black magic

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:52

I can't imaginge anything else that schumacher with a whiff of a wdc car wouldn't ahve been moving heaven and earth and would have proved very difficult to rosberg.

 

amybe even more so than lewis given michael might be that little less desparate than lewis



#8 NoSanityClause

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:56

That's for sure. It's slower than the 2002-2005 cars with less power and downforce...

...And no traction control, or launch control, or fully automatic transmission, a lot less tire and fuel management...

 

I struggle to see why would those cars be considered harder to drive compared to these ones. 



#9 teejay

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:02

Who knows?

 

No one.

 

But he was getting older, and clearly not quite at the level of master Schumi who destroyed all before him many years ago.

 

Maybe these cars would of been PERFECT for him, or maybe he would of been utterly at sea like Kimi.



#10 George Costanza

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:07

...And no traction control, or launch control, or fully automatic transmission, a lot less tire and fuel management...

 

I struggle to see why would those cars be considered harder to drive compared to these ones. 

 

Are the 2014 cars "easier" to drive than the 1991-1992 F1 cars which had manual gearboxes (I know the Benetton did and McLaren also) with simlair power levels and significanly less aerodynamic grip?

 

As for LC, every car has/had that. Automatic gearboxes? Which season had a fully automatic gearbox? tie and fuel? Refeuling era you had to watch your fuel levels from 1994 to 2009.

 

I think they are.      


Edited by George Costanza, 01 August 2014 - 02:11.


#11 garagetinkerer

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:34

Are the 2014 cars "easier" to drive than the 1991-1992 F1 cars which had manual gearboxes (I know the Benetton did and McLaren also) with simlair power levels and significanly less aerodynamic grip?

 

As for LC, every car has/had that. Automatic gearboxes? Which season had a fully automatic gearbox? tie and fuel? Refeuling era you had to watch your fuel levels from 1994 to 2009.

 

I think they are.      

Yes, these cars are heavier with fuel, but still less heavy than compared to 2012 levels, when Schumacher last raced. I thought the current drivers mentioned that these cars are easier to drive compared to ones from last year.



#12 Thomas99

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:51

Who knows?

 

No one.

 

But he was getting older, and clearly not quite at the level of master Schumi who destroyed all before him many years ago.

 

Maybe these cars would of been PERFECT for him, or maybe he would of been utterly at sea like Kimi.

 

I think he was going downhill even in 2006.

He would have done a far better job than Kimi did in 2007, but in those last few years he wasn't the same driver as he was in the 90s to me.



#13 George Costanza

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:56

I think he was going downhill even in 2006.

He would have done a far better job than Kimi did in 2007, but in those last few years he wasn't the same driver as he was in the 90s to me.

 

I agree sir with this.

 

I was a fan since his heydays, and he was on the decline as early as late 2005. Of course his "decline" was/is probably better than any driver's upswing.



#14 Thomas99

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:15

I agree sir with this.

 

I was a fan since his heydays, and he was on the decline as early as late 2005. Of course his "decline" was/is probably better than any driver's upswing.

 

Yep. A lot of the time in 2006 I saw Alonso plain out driving him. He was still an excellent driver in 2006 and was destroying Felipe. If you compare his competitiveness in 2006 to Massa and then overlay that with Raikkonen's performance against Massa in 2007 it shows that Michael probably would have taken both 2007 and 2008 with ease.

 

But a few races in 2006 Michael just looked off the pace, and I dont think you could say that for a single race in his junior career.


Edited by Thomas99, 01 August 2014 - 03:16.


#15 slideways

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:24

In a fair fight no. But combined with Lewis' mechanical troubles I could picture a bit of dirty fighting on track and charisma / team ethic helping him win a mental game. Also with the right contract, anything is possible! 



#16 Thomas99

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:26

As for a young Schumacher in his prime against an in prime Fernando Alonso its hard to say with any certainty.

 

I do agree I'd probably tip it to Schumacher, but Alonso is a true great of the sport and has to be mentioned with the likes of Clark, Senna, Schumacher.



#17 f1RacingForever

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 03:33

My grandma would be winning races in the W05 if she got the chance.



#18 DoctorHouse

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:59

No, he would not.



#19 ClubmanGT

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 06:42

But a few races in 2006 Michael just looked off the pace, and I dont think you could say that for a single race in his junior career.

 

I watched him in the wet in Melbourne P2 2010.

 

He posted the third fastest time in the session on slicks when it had started raining and the other drivers had been out and gone back in. What ever 'it' is, he still had it. 



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#20 baddog

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 06:42

He was quicker than Nico in 2012 in cars extremely unsuited to his style, performing in the early part of the year (while merc were still competitive) second only to Lewis. These cars would be extremely suited to his style so yes. At that stage in his career some inconsistency might have impacted however as he was making far more mistakes than when younger.



#21 DanardiF1

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:02

Are the 2014 cars "easier" to drive than the 1991-1992 F1 cars which had manual gearboxes (I know the Benetton did and McLaren also) with simlair power levels and significanly less aerodynamic grip?

 

As for LC, every car has/had that. Automatic gearboxes? Which season had a fully automatic gearbox? tie and fuel? Refeuling era you had to watch your fuel levels from 1994 to 2009.

 

I think they are.      

 

 

Quite a few cars in 93/94 had automatic downshifts and I believe that was something that cropped back up in the mid-2000's...



#22 JeePee

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:20

it shows that Michael probably would have taken both 2007 and 2008 with ease.

Nahh, Kimi would have stayed at Mclaren then and he wouldn't have let Michael run away with it.



#23 Jon83

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:37

In this car, of course he would.

 

Hamilton and Rosberg have both done excellent jobs but the fine season them and the team is having is in the main down to the brilliant car. Anyone suggesting MSC wouldn't be in the title fight is just deluded IMO.



#24 Shambolic

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:41

He was a little off Rosberg overall in 2010 (though not by as much as the results suggested), there or thereabouts in 2011 come race day, and if anything a fraction ahead overall in 2012. Perhaps the slight loss of performance from age was being overcome by the increased experience as he relearned the current F1.

 

If he could have maintained his late 2011/ all of 2012 form, or even continued his gradual upswing, then I very much think he'd be right there this year. He'd also have the benefit of a car that when working properly wouldn't put him in the GP2 crashfest part of the grid, something he suffered in his comeback as he went wheel to wheel with the likes of crashy Grosjean (who has come through that phase and shown to be pretty good.. Too late for a damp Malaysia though).

 

I always thought Schumacher's raciest performances were mostly in the 90s, but his 2006 Brazil race showed even as he was walking away from the sport, the magic was still in there somewhere. I don't know if it's age as such, or energy that causes drivers to "lose it". He was mentally exhausted, based on his own remarks, clearly he pushed himself very hard, and Ferrari doesn't seem like a laid back workplace either.

 

On a sad note, had he gone for the rumoured 2 year extension in 2012 he'd not only be at or near win 100, he'd have probably been training or going through sim data on that fateful day, instead of skiing.



#25 taran

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:47

Nico would beat him in the long run, but Michael would be there or thereabouts. If you look at the actual races in 2012 they were pretty much even par.

Had Nico had the run of bad luck I think Michael could have won it.

 

The thing is for Schumacher with 91 victories and 7 titles, would 100 victories and 8 titles really change his legacy at all? 110 victories and 9 titles? Its all the same at that level anyway.

 

Normally, I'd agree with you. A Schumacher with 100 victories and 8 titles wouldn't make any difference had he achieved this in 2006/2007/2008. It would just have been more of the same....

 

But Schumacher winning again after a couple of years in retirement would be epic. Much like Lauda's return and title in 1984. It would cement his reputation as something special in a way he hasn't managed in some eyes (favoured by the team, endless testing, bespoke tyres etc.). They ignore that he was quick during his entire career, for every team and under every condition. Even his 2010-2012 were not that bad in hindsight if you look at Rosberg vs. Hamilton.



#26 spacekid

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:36

I think he'd be there or thereabouts certainly.

I sometimes think what could have been if he had signed on for those extra 2 seasons.

#27 P123

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:42

I'm sure he'd still be in with a shout...... but how many more Schumacher fantasy topics are we going to have?

#28 tifosiMac

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:45

I think its fair to say Michael Schumacher in good health at his age would probably be second in the championship, but I think Nico would still have a comfortable gap. Michael wasn't at his best in his second career and the younger drivers definitely had the edge even if he did show moments of brilliance. 



#29 KavB

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:58

I think he would have been in the fight. It's weird but he was actually getting better with every season of his comeback. Even if he had just maintained his 2012 level of competitiveness, I still think that would be enough to have a realistic chance for this title. Of course, we'll never know if his physical abilities would have deteriorated further from age from 43 to 45. 



#30 FastnLoud

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:18

Of course he would its Michael Schumacher not matter how old although he wouldn't beat Nico many times over the season i don't think but alot of 2nd place finishes and some great wins through talent and speed and wins when Nico has dnfs so yes he will be in the title fight.



#31 Gyno

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:43

Schumi 10 years ago would have destroyed Nico.

Schumi 8 years ago would have destroyed Nico.

But Schumi after the 2009 Motorbike accident, where he had a serious injury to the seventh vertebra of the neck, a fracture of the first left rib and a fracture at the base of the skull, roughly the size of a thumbnail but in a place supporting the whole weight of the skull.

'There was also a hairline fracture on the left side of the skull.'

That schumi would not destroy Nico.



#32 FastnLoud

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:49

Schumi 10 years ago would have destroyed Nico.

Schumi 8 years ago would have destroyed Nico.

But Schumi after the 2009 Motorbike accident, where he had a serious injury to the seventh vertebra of the neck, a fracture of the first left rib and a fracture at the base of the skull, roughly the size of a thumbnail but in a place supporting the whole weight of the skull.

'There was also a hairline fracture on the left side of the skull.'

That schumi would not destroy Nico.

LOL



#33 DS27

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 15:51

I know that MS in his prime would have taken this years WDC like a piece of cake - that's enough for me.

 

What he could do at 90% of his best, as he was during his comeback and would be now, is irrelevant for me.



#34 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 16:03

...And no traction control, or launch control, or fully automatic transmission, a lot less tire and fuel management...

 

I struggle to see why would those cars be considered harder to drive compared to these ones. 

 

Look at the lap times. More power, more grip, more G-force, no DRS, KERS, ERS and all that nonense. The races were also sprints, no conservation races.

 

Sure they had LC, auto boxes and the like but those cars were much faster and alot more on the edge.



#35 Gyno

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 18:23

Look at the lap times. More power, more grip, more G-force, no DRS, KERS, ERS and all that nonense. The races were also sprints, no conservation races.

 

Sure they had LC, auto boxes and the like but those cars were much faster and alot more on the edge.

 

Yep they pushed like hell all through out the race back then.

 

I rather have F1 with LC auto boxes and all the driving aids possible aslong as the cars are blistering fast and the drivers and pushing like hell all through out the race.

Than no driver aids and drivers just cruising 90% of the race saving fuel and tires.

 

Back then the cars also looked great.



#36 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 18:59

Plus they sounded awesome too. Those V10 engines send a shiver down my spine.

i drive a V10 BMW M6 and that sounds epic at 8000rpm. I can only imagine what 20,000rpm sounds like at somewhere like Monaco.

#37 Longtimefan

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 19:55

in it?

 

Heck no..  He'd be leading it by a country mile. 



#38 jondon

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 20:48

He would definitely be keeping Rosberg or Hamilton honest at the very least.



#39 bourbon

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 21:03

Well Michael had tons more experience than Lewis and Nico have.  That counts for a lot.  Some of the mistakes they are making are all 'been there done that' for Michael, so they could be avoided.  He'd be back at the front and not confronted with the back and midfield dicey decision making that is necessary to run those cars that are off the pace and shall we say, technically immature.  In addition, there would be none of the garage wars and emo angst that Lewis is famously inciting at Mercedes - which even if more interesting to some viewers - serves as a distraction for the team and drivers.  So on the whole, I would expect him to do an even better job in the car this season than what we are seeing by virtue of his experience, personality and professionalism.



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#40 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 21:08

Schumacher's mental strength would lead Lewis to crumble I think.

#41 sopa

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:46

Schumacher at the age of 45 now would be behind either Hamilton or Rosberg, definitely. But considering Mercedes car advantage he should still secure a P2 at least in most weekends. Which means if he had far superior reliability than his team-mate, he may well compete for the title.

 

I ponder about brainfades though as in 2010-2012 Schumacher tended to have an occasional race, where he inexplicably crashed out. Maybe something related to age as he lacked sharpness in all racing situations. This means he could have a DNF and a significant points loss instead of a P2, making title challenge more difficult, even with the help of greater reliability.



#42 Dunc

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:29

Yes he would but only because of the superiority of the Merc.  If he could qualify on the front row, pull out a lead and hold position, no doubt he's be a contender.

 

If he was fighting someone, no, he was past this.

 

He would be on track to beat two of the records he doesn't have - longest gap between titles (I see Alonso getting this now) and oldest WDC (no idea who could try for this now).



#43 noikeee

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:42

He's 45 years old, and was generally a little behind Nico at 43. You'd think he'd have fallen a bit further with 2 extra seasons, so I wouldn't expect him to challenge Nico on a fair fight on pace.

 

Given the advantage of the Mercedes however, it's not inconceivable he'd still be in the fight simply through the accumulation of 2nd places, and the odd win when Nico would have troubles. Championships get a bit weird and more susceptive to be skewed up by luck when they're like this. But assuming he'd have the exact same luck Lewis has had, I'd expect him to have a lot less points by now. Maybe he'd be thereabouts where Ricciardo is in the standings...



#44 spacekid

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 12:17

LOL


Why lol?

It's also worth noting that, in the discussion about his recent head injury, there was reference to Schumi's 09 bike accident stating there was damage to a major artery that restricted blood flow to his brain.

Still good enough to put in on pole in Monaco though.

#45 maverick69

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 13:28

Schumacher's mental strength would lead Lewis to crumble I think.

 

I think you're confusing "Mental Strength" for "Outwardly Emotional".

 

You don't end up with the results in the last two races that Lewis has, given the massive setbacks, if you're a bit of a melt......... Let alone what else he has achieved in his racing career.......

 

 

To answer the OP:

 

Yes, I think he would. Any driver in the top half of the grid would be up till this point. I don't think he'd be in the lead though if all things were equal - whether vs Lewis or Nico.


Edited by maverick69, 02 August 2014 - 13:48.


#46 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 20:37

He would be 2nd in the championship, but nowhere near Rosberg or Hamilton. I think he'd be fighting Ricciardo and Bottas for 2nd. His days were over and he would have been 44 already this season.



#47 Juan Kerr

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 20:58

He would be 2nd in the championship, but nowhere near Rosberg or Hamilton. I think he'd be fighting Ricciardo and Bottas for 2nd. His days were over and he would have been 44 already this season.

Obviously you don't pay much attention so no wonder your judgement sounds like guess-work based on what you want it to be. Schumacher is already 45, clearly you haven't been reading any of the news stories, he would've been fit enough and fast enough, it is highly likely that he wouldn't have the hunger and desperation to do fantastically well down to the fact that he's already proved himself but I'm sure he would be winning races. There is no reason why not.



#48 Music Lover

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:16

Good post!!


But Schumacher winning again after a couple of years in retirement would be epic. Much like Lauda's return and title in 1984. It would cement his reputation as something special in a way he hasn't managed in some eyes (favoured by the team, endless testing, bespoke tyres etc.). They ignore that he was quick during his entire career, for every team and under every condition. Even his 2010-2012 were not that bad in hindsight if you look at Rosberg vs. Hamilton.



#49 OneAndOnly

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:35

Even I would be in a title fight with this year's MGP car  :clap:

He would storm to the title without decent team mate. But with Rosberg or Hamilton? It would be very very hard. Aside from coma, his best years are behind him. To win these guys in their best days would be epic.



#50 fque

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:53

Schumi would be winning some races, but I don't think he can win the WDC, but he definitely would have done so in 07/08 seasons with Ferrari.