184 replies to this topic

[Jim Thurman]

I can't believe ESPN showed the video.

 

You're suprised?  They always do.  They won't show a basketball injury because "it's too graphic", but auto racing?  Can't be graphic enough.

[nosaj100]

You're suprised?  They always do.  They won't show a basketball injury because "it's too graphic", but auto racing?  Can't be graphic enough.

 

It's a news story and they're a news organization. They've been professional about it from what I've seen. They don't replay it over and over dissecting it in a segment. They show it once and give plenty of warning before hand. They've actually been airing an edited version because you don't actually see Ward get caught up in the tire. It's been replayed throughout the day, yes, but that's for a reason; because they treat each Sportscenter as if no one has seen the news of the day yet. Which is true. The people watching a 2pm show might not be the same as the ones who watch an 11am show. Your hate for ESPN is unfounded here.

 

BTW, they've shown the more recent basketball injuries plenty. Did they clearly show the bones close up? No. But they haven't clearly shown Ward getting ran over either.

Edited by nosaj100, 11 August 2014 - 04:37.

[Ross Stonefeld]

With the internet these days I don't think you need to show those kinds of videos. It's out there if you want to view it.

[crbassassin]

Perhaps they'll even do a segment for E:60 "The Redemption of Tony Stewart"

 

Looks like the written media has entered crisis management mode.

 

http://www.motorspor...the-whole-story

 

Everything is done to paint Tony in a better light

[LuckyStrike1]

Looks like the written media has entered crisis management mode.

 

http://www.motorspor...the-whole-story

 

Everything is done to paint Tony in a better light

 

 

I would wish this crap, meaning your post, could have been posted in the topic that has gone out of control and derailed instead of here. 

 

But I'll say this - I think it was a nicely written opinion piece that is balanced and human. 

 

I feel for Kevin Ward Jr and his family, and I feel equally for Tony Stewart and his family in this devastating tragic accident. Ward Jr:s family and Tony Stewart are both going through hellish times right now. 

Edited by LuckyStrike1, 11 August 2014 - 13:53.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

a concrete wall wouldnt give, so would be a harder impact

Maybe, but a concrete wall is far less likely to literally cut through the roll cage.

[FBJim]

I think the harsh angle of that wall was much more of a problem than the wall being armco. If you want to see how that crash might have looked with a concrete barrier, look up Steve Grissom's crash at Atlanta '97. 

[Jim Thurman]

Looks like the written media has entered crisis management mode.

 

http://www.motorspor...the-whole-story

 

Everything is done to paint Tony in a better light

 

Actually, it was posted to that thread and I'm glad to have a chance to comment on it here rather than in that mess over there.

 

This article was not well-balanced at all, it is extremely partial and biased toward Stewart.  It is as a classic example of what one should not do as a journalist.  To title it "But Know the whole story" is worse yet.

 

EDIT: The best comment in that other thread was from scheivlak in reply to this article: "So we should take into consideration that he's such a nice guy who sleeps in bed with a Chihuahua dog? Strange article."

Edited by Jim Thurman, 11 August 2014 - 16:57.

[Risil]

EDIT: The best comment in that other thread was from scheivlak in reply to this article: "So we should take into consideration that he's such a nice guy who sleeps in bed with a Chihuahua dog? Strange article."

 

Comment reminded me a bit of this colourful character (do we have any Dickens buffs here?)

 

Edited by Risil, 11 August 2014 - 18:27.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I saw a Jenna Fryer column that read similar, at least to me. "Oh that's just Tony." Sorry, Smoke. Because calling him that makes you an Insider.

[Jim Thurman]

I saw a Jenna Fryer column that read similar, at least to me. "Oh that's just Tony." Sorry, Smoke. Because calling him that makes you an Insider.

 

And from one of his staunchest critics.  Circle the wagons mentality in full mode.  Where's an Ed Hinton or Robin Miller when you need them?  Oh, that's right, even they never questioned anything with the Gordon/Stewart train and drank deeply from the Kool Aid.

 

Far, far too much is being made of "black suit, black helmet, dark track."  It's as if they've already decided and wish to re-inforce it.

 

Plus, everyone is sure certain Stewart: "would never do such a thing", yet conveniently ignore a level of red mist that has seen him completely lose it at times while behind the wheel.  He's the one driver that comes to mind as being capable of such an act.  Not intent, just blind rage.  Jails and prisons are full of people like that who let their rage overcome them for a moment.

 

As I wrote and told everyone back in the mid-90s, "one day that guy will snap and kill someone." His history bears looking into it instead of instant dismissal.  You can damn sure bet any other suspect in potential manslaughter would have prior history examined.  And if they'd had other violent incidents, it would go a long ways toward how things would proceed.

 

If any one of these racing writers are offering, or have offered, this sort of expertise to the Sheriffs department they ought to be charged with interfering with an investigation.

Edited by Jim Thurman, 11 August 2014 - 19:25.

[JHSingo]

You're suprised?  They always do.  They won't show a basketball injury because "it's too graphic", but auto racing?  Can't be graphic enough.

 

Always the case with any racing tragedy. I was appalled at the newspaper coverage in the aftermath of Wheldon's crash. Plenty of double page spreads of the crash happening, or the aftermath, or whatever. We live in strange times.

[Risil]

Always the case with any racing tragedy. I was appalled at the newspaper coverage in the aftermath of Wheldon's crash. Plenty of double page spreads of the crash happening, or the aftermath, or whatever. We live in strange times.

 

I bet after the Hindenburg crashed the world found a technical institute's worth of dirigible experts it never knew it had

Edited by Risil, 11 August 2014 - 19:23.

[crbassassin]

I would wish this crap, meaning your post, could have been posted in the topic that has gone out of control and derailed instead of here.

 

Oh! I'm sorry you feel this way, apparently I'm not the only one who feels this way. The other topic is too one sided, so its only fair to have a small amount opposing view points.

[Disgrace]

This thread is about NASCAR at Watkins Glen. Please try to keep the bulk of the Stewart/Ward tragedy discussion within the two designated threads: one for the incident and one for any relation to NASCAR.

[Deluxx]

On a weekend filled with misinformed and untasteful comments/videos, this race was a rather nice takeaway from Sunday.

 

Except for the massive delay, the racing was awesome and was right down to the end. Classic Glenn

[Wes350]

Ok, maybe it's just me, but After being exposed to a good half year of F1 and DTM racing, I found the Glen crash/caution-fest mildly off-putting.

 

It's not like smashups are unknown in the european based series, but holy crap, its like these guys just couldn't get out of each others way.

 

And Watkins Glen had almost the confines of a street race with the way the armco was located around the track.

 

Maybe I need to get myself a tinfoil hat, but the more I compare nascar to other racing series the more it seems that the format is intentionally set up to induce a kind of bumper car racing that causes cautions to continually stack the field.

 

But it was nice to see a small team take a win.

 

I think F1 could actually benefit if it allowed a few single car teams...

[whitewaterMkII]

Ok, maybe it's just me, but After being exposed to a good half year of F1 and DTM racing, I found the Glen crash/caution-fest mildly off-putting.

 

It's not like smashups are unknown in the european based series, but holy crap, its like these guys just couldn't get out of each others way.

 

 

Hmmm, DTM shows 23-24 entrants, F1 has 22. NASCAR nearly had twice as many cars on the track Sunday.

That makes it a lot tougher to stay out of each others way, even more so when these cars are far more equal than F1 and while I don't watch DTM much, I see the current leader is at 95 pts. and second is at 56 pts. so I smell some disparity in that series as well.

NASCAR is not intentionally set up to be bumper cars, but when you field that many cars, that are tightly regulated, there is bound to be some bumping around out there.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think the biggest issue is these cars are heavy, very highly powered, have no downforce to speak of, and tiny awful tires. They're a handful on a road course even running by yourself.

[Option1]

I like NASCAR.  I don't like NASCAR on road courses where, because of the awful tyres and handling, the cars look like primitive 1950s tanks.

 

Neil

[pingu666]

and you can have mild contact and be fine, interestingly its side to side contact which is the worst (cut tyres easily) while in other series thats less bad contact.

 

but it is what it is

[FBJim]

It's not great, but along with Martinsville, it's basically the last class of tracks where NASCAR is good at all anymore.

[pingu666]

I like NASCAR.  I don't like NASCAR on road courses where, because of the awful tyres and handling, the cars look like primitive 1950s tanks.

 

Neil

 

but thats why its so good , plus the cup cars have 900hp or so, so they make time on the straights

[Ross Stonefeld]

The great thing about Robby Gordon Supertrucks is I can never tell if they're inside or out of the race track

[OvDrone]

The great thing about Robby Gordon Supertrucks is I can never tell if they're inside or out of the race track

 

I didn't even know that this kind of thing existed.

[Jim Thurman]

43 cars has always been too many for most tracks and led to the perception that NASCAR only wanted to take care of sponsors and have a lot of wrecks.  At Bristol and Martinsville, it's downright ridiculous.  They used to start 30 on those two and even that was too many. Bring back the days where you qualified, or you didn't, no matter who you're sponsor was...or wasn't.

 

I chuckle every time I read stories concerned over the loss of this "magical number" and its' "tradition" and "history."  Well, yes, when it's on a Petty car, but for the number of starters it's a fairly recent phenomenon.

 

I remember hearing about Bill France Jr. calling people up to get field fillers for Michigan to get the starters up to 37. "Hey, you still got that Chrysler?, bring it out."  (that was a literal quote someone passed along).  And that was in 1985.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Buried in Joyce Julius stats somewhere is an idea of how many cars even show up in the broadcast. If there were 30 fully funded cars with Name drivers, you probably wouldn't notice it being any different to now.

[Jim Thurman]

  Nailed it Ross. Now, would you mind telling NASCAR that

[pingu666]

yeah they could get away with 30 cars, but i do love huge fields of cars, and its great to have those small teams too

 

and i love trucks, and the SST's have the advantage of being spec, but built with being spectacular in mind, so a pro 2 is probably better, but its not a betterness im that into as a casual watcher

[Red17]

I didn't even know that this kind of thing existed.

 

That was what I said when I discovered this:

 

http://en.wikipedia....Figure_8_racing

 

Back on topic(s),

 

The starter thing seems to be a bit of bragging rights ("Look at me! I got 43 friggink cars"), another bit of hosting deals (I supose you can deal a higher fee if you have more cars as fans seem to react negative to smaller fields) and pressure from teams ("Why do I need to pay to race if im not garanteed a spot on the grid?"). In my opinion that's why you no longer have 18 cars at Monaco or excess of qualifiers at Lemans or Indy.

 

The thing about Nascar on road courses in the past is that most drivers sucked, I recall one friend of mine, who was a big fan of Nascar, saying "1 or 2 know what they are doing, the rest just tries to survive", nowdays you see regular oval racers doing just fine so the race becomes closer to regular touring cars. The contact thing doesnt seem too much, I recall a certain Tom Coronel doing some similar baging before and the BTCC gets a lof of bad rep for contact. I mean, those cup cars seem built for door bagging and on a course that has some sizable tarmac run-offs it gets inevitable. The barriers are probably one of the many reasons why F1 is now racing at COTA and not at the Glen, isnt that the section that gets bypassed if you use "The Boot"? Maybe they should use it. (tho I suspect it may not be suitable nowdays) It's a bit odd how NASCAR races at gigantic places like Indy, Daytona or Talladega but always chooses the smaller layouts on road courses.

Edited by Red17, 12 August 2014 - 18:54.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I should ask that RacingNomics guy to redo his stats on like a 30-35 car grid. Even if the NASCAR-Team split of the money stayed the same, the individual shares taken up by the owners would increase.

 

 

 

"RTA announces appointment of new Vice President..."

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 12 August 2014 - 19:44.

[paulb]

Well DISH screwed me again because the race ended after my timer was complete.  It appears I missed mostly red flag time so no harm.

 

I like watching NASCAR at road courses. I enjoy watching the struggle.

[V8 Fireworks]

http://www.wallpaper...e0fa2ec05ca.jpg

 

Why is there not a modern day Trans Am series?  Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, (Genesis! FR-S?) etc?

 

The quality of teams in Grand Am is fantastic, it seems there is too much of a vested interest by NASCAR to keep Grand Am as a purely champagne, crackers and cheese series and NASCAR as the pork ribs and chilli dog series... instead of meeting in the middle, similar to V8 Supercars.

[V8 Fireworks]

http://www.wallpaper...e0fa2ec05ca.jpg

 

Why is there not a modern day Trans Am series?  Camaro, Challenger, Mustang, (Genesis! FR-S?) etc?

 

The quality of teams in Grand Am is fantastic, it seems there is too much of a vested interest by NASCAR to keep Grand Am as a purely champagne, crackers and cheese series and NASCAR as the pork ribs and chilli dog series... instead of meeting in the middle, similar to V8 Supercars.

 

Buried in Joyce Julius stats somewhere is an idea of how many cars even show up in the broadcast. If there were 30 fully funded cars with Name drivers, you probably wouldn't notice it being any different to now.

 

Less car sucks.

 

V8SC had 55 cars at Bathurst.  Then 40 at all the major races.  Then 36. Then 32. Then 30. Then 28.  Now 25.

 

Having only 25 cars sucks balls !!  It is not a good thing for fans, not at all.

 

Australia has a variety of (non v8 supercar) national championships that struggle to get more than about 8-10 cars in the field.  But they are traditional titles (like sports sedans - similar to modern trans am - so they carry on).  At least it is nice and quiet while you wait (for a long time) for the field to come back around....  Having too few cars is really NOT a good thing at all.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 13 August 2014 - 05:38.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

I like NASCAR.  I don't like NASCAR on road courses where, because of the awful tyres and handling, the cars look like primitive 1950s tanks.

 

Neil

I don't understand why that is important at all.  The bad handling is what makes the racing great.