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Kevin Ward dies after being run over by Tony Stewart's car during sprint race [update]


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#1101 Force Ten

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 20:00

I have watched it precisely because of the guys that "know" Stewarts action was intentional and premeditated. Mostly what annoys the f*** out of me is that everyone on the prosecuting side has opereting from the assumption, that before Stewart started the crucial lap that ended up with the accident that killed Ward, Stewart knew that Ward was dead and so he sent his astral projection out of the car right beside the guy with a video camera so that he could get an idea what Ward is going to do and make up his mind to retaliate.

 

See, nobody on the prosecuting side hasn't bothered at all to put themselves into Stewarts mind and place and operating with what information he had available at the time before the incident occurred. During those 9 seconds Ward was visible Stewart had the corner to navigate and 4 cars ahead of him blocking his view and Ward also being at the front right of his car where the blind spot is. So far nobody, absolutrely nobody has posted a credible chain of events from Stewart points of view that led him to intentionally cause actions that ended up killing Ward.

 

The prosecuting side is thus far exhibiting only the worst kind of monday morning quarterbacking and as such it is excruciatingly stupid.



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#1102 wrighty

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 20:10

i'm sorry but you can't argue against a case and include 'astral projection' as part of your argument. I don't know what happened, neither do you, stop trying to tell anyone who disagrees with you that they're wrong when you're none the wiser.



#1103 Force Ten

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 21:06

Yes I can, when really the only probable scenario of Stewart knowing what the prosecutors claim he knew was him having superpowers. Feel free to point out when and where likely did he see what all of us saw in the video and how much time it took him to develop the cause of action that you presume hje took. So far you are only saying "I don'lt know what really happened but I think he sprayed him intentionally. But you also can't know what really happened so my guess is as good as yours". No. We have explained what is LIKELY in that scenario, what is PROBABLE. You base ALL of your argument to "I saw Tony Stewart kill Ward in a video. I think the killing was unfortunate but it was a result of malicious behaviour anyway because the second guy is dead".



#1104 AustinF1

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 21:18

Force, i've had to watch the footage again, so thanks for that. I'm not going to suggest you do the same but i'm gonna suggest you probably haven't watched it at all yet. There's no safety car that you mention him doing the lap behind. The yellows seem to come on around the 19 second mark in the footage (you hear the revs drop from a car near the cameraman at that point, and i'm gonna guess that was for the yellows) and the unfortunate collision is at 35 secs from a collision at the 9 second mark so while he probably did have 9 seconds to see Ward that was about a third of a lap, not 'most of the time he was on the opposite side of the racetrack'.

Most significantly for me, however, is the circumstances that led to the crash. Stewart passes Ward on the straight into the corner entry by way of a 'slide job', where the overtaking car passes on the inside and then moves up the track to block the outer car and close the pass. It's a regular move that goes from midgets and sprints all the way to nascar and it works, and sometimes it causes a collision when the guy on the outside doesn't respond quickly enough by lifting out of the gas, so a crash ensues and Stewart knew he was there (you hear lots of drivers talking about hearing the cars around them, in sprints as well, and without mirrors it's a finely-honed skill) both before and after.

He might've seen Ward on the track before he got to the corner under yellow (there was a long gap between the 45 and the car ahead, approximately 2.5 seconds on the wobbly footage, give or take and Ward was out of the car then) but it wasn't daylight so that's not a given, but Stewart appears into shot sideways, whether he's gunned it or he's avoiding it or he's just not been as attentive about the caution we don't know either, but he's travelling faster than the cars ahead.

I don't profess to know what happened but in all honesty i don't think you can be as confident in arguing this case as you have been. Unless you are Tony. I'm not convinced you are.

No, he appears into the shot going straight and only goes sideways after contact with Ward. I'm not suggesting you watch again, because it's no fun, but it's apparent in the stills and the super slo-motion video. 

 

I have also heard people say repeatedly that Stewart is traveling faster than the other cars. There's no evidence of that in the video.



#1105 Tsarwash

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 23:38

What the hell has happened to this thread ? 



#1106 dgsg

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:31

What the hell has happened to this thread ? 

 

It's on the internet, do I have to say more?



#1107 cool inferno

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 17:12

Another interesting analogy video on what happened. Warning graphic contents. 

 



#1108 johnmhinds

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 17:45

Boy is she reaching if she really thinks that...

 

The "slow mo" video is a huge mess of warping blobs, i've no idea why it was even made.



#1109 cool inferno

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 18:21

I would not say its convincing, but it does make sense when you look at it entirely and evaluate her findings.

#1110 Tsarwash

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 18:24

Can you sum it up please. Life's too short to watch 20 mins slow mo of a fatal accident. 



#1111 johnmhinds

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 18:40

Can you sum it up please. Life's too short to watch 20 mins slow mo of a fatal accident. 

 

She thinks Kevin Ward jumped onto Tony Stewarts car and rode on it, and that Tony Stewart didn't run him over.

 

And completely wastes her time using the blurro-vision video full of processing artefacts as proof of that theory.



#1112 JHSingo

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 18:48

Bloody hell. This is like the aftermath of the Boston bombing, where every man and his dog was posting online, trying to figure out who might be the culprits. And being completely wrong.

 

We're all entitled to an opinion, but I think now we're at the stage where people should leave the experts to the investigation.


Edited by JHSingo, 22 August 2014 - 20:00.


#1113 Force Ten

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 19:19

Yeah, regarding the last video, I'm on the "whatever, dude, still firmly on the accident" camp.



#1114 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 00:21

A few more phone pics that some of y'all might enjoy...

 

10389197_893993817281831_830697055754980

 

10608477_893993853948494_503404925648624

 

10522367_893993857281827_220246742316325

 

10603852_893993880615158_333604375432973

Looking at that cockpit shot seems unusual to me. No tell tach, though the grey wire may be an earth for one. No knee guards  for the driver, they are a U shaped piece of alloy mounted near the steering box to stop the drivers knees flopping around in a crash and works well. 

Stupid here smashed his knee against the steering box in a biggish crash without and had to have surgery. It is amazing how much your legs flop around. I had padding but my knee got above the padding.

All those hoses, pumps and pipes scare me to look at. The power steer pump [girls!] is driven off the back of the cam, that pump also pressures the hydraulic wing adjuster [the knob on the left side]

Is it my imagination, it seems the three 5/16 bolts that hold the steering wheel to the quick release hub are not there either. Just one bolt in the centre. Weird.

BTW the wing moves back and forward so that side plate usually is further back. Many cut more off the corner too. Though on a turn left track vision to the right is not a priority. 



#1115 Eff One 2002

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 00:31

Ward was walking among slow yellow flag traffic. That is the point of this whole debate! As stupid as he was it was not super unsafe, about the same as walking across a suburban street. The challenging Stewarts car was ofcourse stupid.

You have already been comprehensively defeated in this debate. There's no need for me to add anything more...



#1116 B Squared

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 19:09

Just heard on a Chicago radio broadcast that the Stewart case is being forwarded to a grand jury, confirmed at the following:

http://www.usatoday....death/15724209/

#1117 Jim Thurman

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 19:32

Careful about posting something factual Brian, you could be labelled as attempting to "convict" Stewart  ;)



#1118 loki

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 03:26

If the prosecutor thought he had evidence to charge he doesn't need to send the case to a grand jury, he could just file the charges.  Sending a case like this to a grand jury could be a way to provide political cover for the DA's office or could simply mean they aren't really certain what, if any charges to file.



#1119 crbassassin

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 04:54

If the prosecutor thought he had evidence to charge he doesn't need to send the case to a grand jury, he could just file the charges.  Sending a case like this to a grand jury could be a way to provide political cover for the DA's office or could simply mean they aren't really certain what, if any charges to file.

 

The DA is a coward and trying to push this on the Grand Jury so he wouldn't have to face the backlash from fanatic fans.



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#1120 AustinF1

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 05:42

If the prosecutor thought he had evidence to charge he doesn't need to send the case to a grand jury, he could just file the charges.  

Yep. I'd say they probably just don't want to encourage any notion that they're rushing this thing along or not being exceedingly thorough. With this kind of high-profile case, I can certainly see that being a concern if they were to just end it now. This way, what can anyone say, regardless of the outcome?


Edited by AustinF1, 17 September 2014 - 06:26.


#1121 Craven Morehead

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:02

Austin, I just wanted to say I appreciated your level headed posts regarding these tragic events.  I've been staying away from this thread, and was truly surprised at some of the opinions I read tonight. 


Edited by Craven Morehead, 17 September 2014 - 06:05.


#1122 AustinF1

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 06:25

Austin, I just wanted to say I appreciated your level headed posts regarding these tragic events.  I've been staying away from this thread, and was truly surprised at some of the opinions I read tonight. 

Thanks! I try to be reasonable every now and then. LMAO at your handle.



#1123 B Squared

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:42

Careful about posting something factual Brian, you could be labelled as attempting to "convict" Stewart  ;)

Thanks for your concern Jim - I'd return the same winking smiley, but again, they have disappeared as an option with this format.



#1124 wrighty

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:47

The DA is a coward and trying to push this on the Grand Jury so he wouldn't have to face the backlash from fanatic fans.

 

I'm sure that's the foremost thought in his mind at the conclusion of an investigation like this  :rolleyes:

 

If nothing else, the DA clearly felt that this wasn't just Ward's fault. There is analysis from Fox Sports* too, specifically the levels of indictment that the grand jury can consider and the considerations around those that the jury may need to take into account.

 

http://www.foxsports...com:nascaronfox

( *i make no assessment on their impartiality or whatever, you can call em fascists if you want.)
 



#1125 loki

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 03:00

I'm sure that's the foremost thought in his mind at the conclusion of an investigation like this  :rolleyes:

 

If nothing else, the DA clearly felt that this wasn't just Ward's fault. There is analysis from Fox Sports* too, specifically the levels of indictment that the grand jury can consider and the considerations around those that the jury may need to take into account.

 

http://www.foxsports...com:nascaronfox

( *i make no assessment on their impartiality or whatever, you can call em fascists if you want.)
 

There is nothing to indicate the the DA thought it just wasn't just Ward's fault.  It's more likely that because of the high profile of the case he wanted political cover.  That's is fairly common to hand something off to a grand jury so the prosecutor has some plausible deniability.    No matter what decision the DA made to prosecute or not there would have been blowback as the issue is pretty polarizing.  Given the notoriety of the case  I'm not surprised the DA is handing off to the grand jury.  



#1126 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 13:35

There is nothing to indicate the the DA thought it just wasn't just Ward's fault.  It's more likely that because of the high profile of the case he wanted political cover.  That's is fairly common to hand something off to a grand jury so the prosecutor has some plausible deniability.    No matter what decision the DA made to prosecute or not there would have been blowback as the issue is pretty polarizing.  Given the notoriety of the case  I'm not surprised the DA is handing off to the grand jury.  

Problem is that grand jury is not a very good cover.  Grand jury is practically a rubber stamp for the prosecutor.  If grand jury fails to indict, then the only reason for that would be that the prosecutor wanted them to not indict, and sabotaged his case accordingly.  But, then again, bad cover is probably still better than no cover.



#1127 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 23:21

You have already been comprehensively defeated in this debate. There's no need for me to add anything more...

When you have driven on dirt ovals you may well have a cause to comment. Other wise shut up!  I have over 80 events on dirt!



#1128 wrighty

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:48

There is nothing to indicate the the DA thought it just wasn't just Ward's fault.  It's more likely that because of the high profile of the case he wanted political cover.  That's is fairly common to hand something off to a grand jury so the prosecutor has some plausible deniability.    No matter what decision the DA made to prosecute or not there would have been blowback as the issue is pretty polarizing.  Given the notoriety of the case  I'm not surprised the DA is handing off to the grand jury.  

 

Within the wider context of US politics and the judiciary, as opposed to just motorsports as (on a good day) an entertainment industry in which TS is neither the most wealthy, influential or even popular driver, do you think the DA needs 'political cover'? really?



#1129 Tsarwash

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 14:05

When you have driven on dirt ovals you may well have a cause to comment. Other wise shut up!  I have over 80 events on dirt!

I appreciate your experience and your input into this thread, but to say that nobody can comment unless they have driven on dirt ovals is not correct. It means that people may put more weight onto your opinion than others' who have no experience, that is all.



#1130 biercemountain

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 14:33

Within the wider context of US politics and the judiciary, as opposed to just motorsports as (on a good day) an entertainment industry in which TS is neither the most wealthy, influential or even popular driver, do you think the DA needs 'political cover'? really?

 

While one can debate the wealth and popularity of TS, he is very well known and closely associated with Nascar which is very popular and incredibly wealthy.