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Unusual aerodynamic devices (again)


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#1 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 16:43

Once more to the fount of knowledge that is the TNF forum.
 
A couple of years back, some TNFers (notably DCN) were kind enough to assist me in locating pictures to aid my efforts in modelling the entire automobile career of Niki Lauda in 1/43. There are a couple of final omissions in the F1 section where I know from contemporary reports of some oddball variations, but have been unable to locate images, despite several years of research.
 
The two particular cases in point for which I am seeking pictures are:
 
The "rocket-style" front wing endplates that featured on the Ferrari 312Ts during practice for the French GP  on July 6th, 1975. (It was also reported that a "long wheelbase" variant of the 312T ran the previous day, with revised front suspension geometry featuring different lower wishbones and rockers at 90 degrees to the chassis, rather than swept back - I haven't seen this either).
 
The "bulbous" or "shaped semi-cylindrical" endplates added to the rear wings of the Ferrari 312T2s during 1st practice for the Swedish GP on 11/6/1976.
 
I won't pester you with the 3 non-F1 oddities I am seeking at this stage - that may be one for another day!
 
Many thanks for your time and I greatly value your help.


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#2 Duc-Man

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 17:22

Since you try to modell all the cars Niki Lauda drove I need to ask you if you know about the 'Schwarze Witwe'? It was an Opel Rekord C that Lauda drove in the beginning of his racing career. Unfortnately there are not many pictures around.

opel-record-c-schwarze-witwe-2.jpg



#3 arttidesco

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 17:56

 

Hope the link helps :cool:



#4 Rob Ryder

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 18:00

The "rocket-style" front wing endplates that featured on the Ferrari 312Ts during practice for the French GP  on July 6th, 1975. (It was also reported that a "long wheelbase" variant of the 312T ran the previous day, with revised front suspension geometry featuring different lower wishbones and rockers at 90 degrees to the chassis, rather than swept back - I haven't seen this either). 
Many thanks for your time and I greatly value your help.

Poor quality I'm afraid
QGpBzy.jpg

#5 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 22:35

Rob - absolutely superb, thanks. Exactly what I was looking for. As well as the unusual endplates, the revised front suspension geometry and slightly narrower front wing are pretty clear.

Arti - interesting one, this. I have already modelled this car, which was used in this form by both Lauda and Regazzoni in 1st practice for the 1976 French GP. The brake duct deflectors were ruled by the stewards to be "moveable aerodynamic devices" and their times were disallowed.

Duc-man - thanks; another interesting model that has been completed. The picture you've posted is from the Tulln-Langenlebarn Flugplatzrennen of 13/7/69, though Lauda also raced the same car at Munich-Neubiberg on 26/10/69. Very nice image though!

As we have started down this tangent, the "missing" cars are:

> Mini Cooper 1300S shared with Lambert Hofer, Nurburgring 6 Hours 7/7/68
> Porsche 908/2, Preis der Martha, Osterreichring 25/10/70
> BMW 2002, Innsbruck Group 1 race, 30/9/73
> Ford Capri RS2600, Osterreichring End of Season Trophy, 14/10/73.

Those would be really good - I've been looking for a decade!

And can anyone confirm whether the McNamara Mk3B he campaigned in 1970 F3 was red or green? I think the former, but some Images are contradictory........

Much appreciated, one and all!

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 14 August 2014 - 06:44.


#6 arttidesco

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 00:09

Apologies Jon not seen the '75 type Rob posted @-)



#7 Frank de Jong

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 13:48

Jon, http://www.technisch...-in-oesterreich has a lot of images; I found Lauda and his Opel Rekord there, there may be more.



#8 arttidesco

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 14:38

 
I won't pester you with the 3 non-F1 oddities I am seeking at this stage - that may be one for another day!
 

 

 

Go on give us a try  ;)



#9 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 21:36

Jon, http://www.technisch...-in-oesterreich has a lot of images; I found Lauda and his Opel Rekord there, there may be more.

Cheers Frank - I found that fantastic photo archive some time ago. It contains images of the following early Lauda cars:

> Porsche 911 campaigned on airfields and hills in 1968 (Koralpke, Tulln-Langenlebarn & Aspern)
> Kaimann MkIII and MkIV Formula Vee from '68 and '69 (both Aspern)
> Porsche 910 shared with Otto Stuppacher, Osterreichring 1969
> McNamara Mk3B from European F3, Osterreichring 1970
> Chevron B19 Salzburgring 1971
> March 712M F2 Tulln-Langenlebarn 1971
> March 722 F2 Osterreichring 1972
> BMW 2002 Aspern 1973

It seems that the Opel Rekord "Black Widow" was something of an infamous beast, a lightened and re-engined hot rod conceived as a Porsche-beater and often run as a ringer. I believe it was down to Lauda's deal with Kaimann that he ended up in the car, but if anyone knows the full story, I'd love to hear it.

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 14 August 2014 - 21:41.


#10 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 21:40

Go on give us a try  ;)


It's the ones in the earlier post, Arti -

> Mini Cooper 1300S shared with Lambert Hofer, Nurburgring 6 Hours 7/7/68
> Porsche 908/2, Preis der Martha, Osterreichring 25/10/70
> BMW 2002, Innsbruck Group 1 race, 30/9/73
> Ford Capri RS2600, Osterreichring End of Season Trophy, 14/10/73.

That would be really something!

Plus the 312t2 from Swedish GP practice 1976 of course..........

#11 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:59

Perhaps worth clarifying - the Porsche 908/2 that ran in the "Preis der Martha is of course the same chassis he had campaigned in Interserie; it's the livery I am trying to identify. By the end of the season it was running in green & white colours with sponsorship from Peter Quelle, but I don't know if this was the case in Austria. I've never seen results (or even an entry list) for this event, sometimes referred to as the Martha Grand National.

The BMW 2002 that "won" at Innsbruck in 1973 (after Dieter Quester was disqualified) may be the same car that appeared in Lauda's hands at Aspern in 1973, but again I can trace no images.

It's also unclear if the Ford Capri RS2600 raced in the 1973 End of Season Trophy was a works car or a private entry. Lauda was a Ford works driver in 1974 of course, but I'm not sure if the contract was signed at the end of 1973?

Many thanks & good hunting!

#12 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 10:13

Rob - absolutely superb, thanks. Exactly what I was looking for. As well as the unusual endplates, the revised front suspension geometry and slightly narrower front wing are pretty clear.

Arti - interesting one, this. I have already modelled this car, which was used in this form by both Lauda and Regazzoni in 1st practice for the 1976 French GP. The brake duct deflectors were ruled by the stewards to be "moveable aerodynamic devices" and their times were disallowed.

Duc-man - thanks; another interesting model that has been completed. The picture you've posted is from the Tulln-Langenlebarn Flugplatzrennen of 13/7/69, though Lauda also raced the same car at Munich-Neubiberg on 26/10/69. Very nice image though!

As we have started down this tangent, the "missing" cars are:

> Mini Cooper 1300S shared with Lambert Hofer, Nurburgring 6 Hours 7/7/68
> Porsche 908/2, Preis der Martha, Osterreichring 25/10/70
> BMW 2002, Innsbruck Group 1 race, 30/9/73
> Ford Capri RS2600, Osterreichring End of Season Trophy, 14/10/73.

Those would be really good - I've been looking for a decade!

And can anyone confirm whether the McNamara Mk3B he campaigned in 1970 F3 was red or green? I think the former, but some Images are contradictory........

Much appreciated, one and all!

 

 

Jon

 

you certainly have this (new) book:

 

http://www.amazon.de...rmel1 +pfundner

 

There I found (at least) 1 photo showing Niki in the cockpit of the BMW in Innsbruck (30Sep73). It's a photo, he is sitting in the car (pre-grid), photographed with open driver door (not much of the car to be seen)..

 

The title of the book is misleading..Two thirds of the book are old b/w from minor races of airport tracks..

 

Best regards Michael



#13 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:27

Hi Michael

 

is it this image:

 

http://s28.postimg.o...auda_Aspern.jpg

 

]Lauda_Aspern.jpg[/url]

 

 

which sounds like the picture you describe? If so, the photo credits at the museum say this was taken at Aspern (which ties up with the other images on that site).

 

I would love this not to be the case!

 

Many thanks. 


Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 17 August 2014 - 12:37.


#14 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 16:22

Hi Michael

 

is it this image:

 

http://s28.postimg.o...auda_Aspern.jpg

 

]Lauda_Aspern.jpg[/url]

 

 

which sounds like the picture you describe? If so, the photo credits at the museum say this was taken at Aspern (which ties up with the other images on that site).

 

I would love this not to be the case!

 

Many thanks. 

Jon

 

the picture in the book was taken before, as Niki has the helmet still on his knees (ballaclava on and belted)..But you can see the lens of the filmcamera as in 'your' photo...

Pfundner's caption talks of INNSBRUCK and the disqualification story of Quester..Maybe he is right??

 

Best regards Michael



#15 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 16:37

Hi Michael

 

is it this image:

 

http://s28.postimg.o...auda_Aspern.jpg

 

]Lauda_Aspern.jpg[/url]

 

 

which sounds like the picture you describe? If so, the photo credits at the museum say this was taken at Aspern (which ties up with the other images on that site).

 

I would love this not to be the case!

 

Many thanks. 

Jon

 

Do you know this archive ??  Only (?) ZELTWEG and Hruby's photos..

http://www.motorsportarchiv.at/

 

Michael



#16 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 19:45

Jon

the picture in the book was taken before, as Niki has the helmet still on his knees (ballaclava on and belted)..But you can see the lens of the filmcamera as in 'your' photo...
Pfundner's caption talks of INNSBRUCK and the disqualification story of Quester..Maybe he is right??

Best regards Michael


Hi Michael

The picture you refer to is the previous one in the sequence from the one I posted, which appears in the archive of the Vienna Technical Museum. The museum archive labels it as Aspern. The archive only has images of the Aspern race, not the Innsbruck one, so I fear the authors of the book may have made an error. Unless someone knows different, of course!!

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 17 August 2014 - 19:56.


#17 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 19:56

Jon

Do you know this archive ?? Only (?) ZELTWEG and Hruby's photos..
http://www.motorsportarchiv.at/

Michael

Hi Michael

Thanks for this - I haven't seen that archive before. The pictures are the Lauda / Peter 908/2 in the Osterreichring 1000 km Interserie race on 11/10/1970. The one I am searching for is the Martha Grand National race was at the same track, 2 weeks later on 25/10/1970.

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 17 August 2014 - 21:12.


#18 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 20:34

Hi Michael

Thanks for this - I haven't seen that archive before. The pictures are the Lauda / Peter 908/2 in the Osterreichring 1000 km Interserie race on 11/10/1970. The Martha Grand National race was at the same track, 2 weeks later on 25/10/1970.

Great!! Do I understand correctly: you have found two 'new' pics??

 

Michael



#19 Jon Saltinstall

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 21:06

Hi Michael - they are "new" pictures of a car I have previously seen (the 908 at the Osterreichring 1000 km) so whilst they don't help the model collection, they are useful updates. I'm still searching for picture of the ones in my list (from the 1970 Martha Grand National Interserie race and the 1973 Innsbruck event) , but I really appreciate your help in looking!

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 17 August 2014 - 21:10.


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#20 Tuboscocca

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 21:24

Hi Michael - they are "new" pictures of a car I have previously seen (the 908 at the Osterreichring 1000 km) so whilst they don't help the model collection, they are useful updates. I'm still searching for picture of the ones in my list (from the 1970 Martha Grand National Interserie race and the 1973 Innsbruck event) , but I really appreciate your help in looking!

thanks Jon!!

 

Every day a tiny bit!!!!

 

I'm waiting for the PebbleBeach concours livestream--but was caught out fom PST/PDT to CEST conversion :confused:

 

Best regards Michael