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Greatest Motorsport Allrounders


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#1 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:14

Not sure if this topic has been covered before but Summer Break in F1 seems like a good time to start it.

 

The idea is submit your nomination for the motorsport competitor who you consider to have demonstrated the greatest ability across different disciplines.  Your post should include a supporting argument or list of relevant results. 

 

Please don't simply submit a name.

 

The qualification requirement is any motorsport competitor who has been successful across multiple powered and wheeled disciplines.

 

 

 

 

with due acknowledgement to nordschleife for suggesting the topic


Edited by ahw911, 13 August 2014 - 12:44.


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#2 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:39

Vic Elford.....'67 European Rally Champion....'68 Monte Carlo Rally Winner then a week later Daytona 24 Hr winner  

Winner of 1st ever Rallycross in '67.......and 4th in F1 in '68 French GP :drunk:



#3 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:43

How can I do Stirling Moss' achievements in one post without overloading the servers?

#4 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:54

Stirling Moss.

 

 

16 World Championship F1 wins including some truly great drives - Argentina 1958 and Nurburgring and Monaco in 1961 plus the 3 hour GP round the 16 miles of Pescara in 1957

 

18 non championship F1 wins including (simultaneously) the first for a 4wd F1 car and last for a front engined F1 car at the Oulton Park Gold Cup in 1961 (the first motor race I attended)

 

7 Tourist Trophy wins.  (3 at Dundrod and 4 at Goodwood)

 

Alpine Rally  - Coupe D'Or for 3 successive Coupe Des Alpes (penalty free runs).  Only two other drivers have achieved this.

 

Monte Carlo Rally - 2nd overall 1952

 

Mille Miglia - 1st overall 1955.  Average speed 98.53 mph over 1000 miles.  Considered by many to be the greatest ever drive.  When you've actually seen the roads which were used it is truly difficult to comprehend how it would be possible to this with modern technology, let alone 59 years ago.  (Fangio, driving without a passenger finished 33 minutes behind with his Mercedes only running on 7 cylinders by the end).

 

Sebring 12 Hours - 1st overall 1954 (first non-American to win)

 

Nurburgring 1000km  -  3 consecutive wins '58-'60 doing most of the driving in the first two and, with Dan Gurney, overcoming a 6 minute deficit to win the third.

 

Record Breaking - 107.46 mph in 1950 in a production XK120 over 24 hours.  100.31 mph over 7 days in 1952 in a production XK120 and 245.64 mph for the flying kilometre in 1957 in MG EX181 at Bonneville.

 

 

So who is your choice and why?


Edited by ahw911, 13 August 2014 - 10:56.


#5 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:05

Hook line and sinker! I got my nomination in and got someone else to do the dirty work!

I love his record at places like Monaco - in 7 races, he retired whilst leading 4 times, and won the other 3. Graham Hill Mr Monaco? Heh.

#6 WhiteSGPlayer

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:10

Great thread, I could post here for ages

 

Sébastian Loeb!

 

78 rally wins, 900 stage wins, and 9 consecutive championships.

 

2nd place at Le Mans in his second attempt in 2006

 

4 wins in his rookie season of GT racing in a McLaren MP4-12C, in the FIA GT Series 2013 (admittedly his co-driver was Alvaro Parente, one of the best GT drivers out there right now, but that's still a great achievement)

 

And currently 3 wins in the WTCC, driving for Citroen


Edited by WhiteSGPlayer, 13 August 2014 - 11:12.


#7 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:10

Hook line and sinker! I got my nomination in and got someone else to do the dirty work!

I love his record at places like Monaco - in 7 races, he retired whilst leading 4 times, and won the other 3. Graham Hill Mr Monaco? Heh.

 

Just to set the record straight, I began typing that post immediately after starting the thread intending that it would get the ball rolling.  However, with interruptions it took me 40 minutes to complete it. Nice to know that great minds think alike.  :yawnface:


Edited by ahw911, 13 August 2014 - 11:12.


#8 Tombstone

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:11

Moss, as previously mentioned, also consider:

 

http://en.wikipedia...._career_results , & http://www.motorspor...st-all-rounder/

 

http://en.wikipedia....k#Racing_record

 

I'm not making a choice, I choose not to do that kind of thing as I'm a car fan not a people person.


Edited by Tombstone, 13 August 2014 - 11:12.


#9 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:23

Moss, as previously mentioned, also consider:

 

http://en.wikipedia...._career_results , & http://www.motorspor...st-all-rounder/

 

http://en.wikipedia....k#Racing_record

 

I'm not making a choice, I choose not to do that kind of thing as I'm a car fan not a people person.

 

Yes - I agree with both as serious candidates.  Jim Clark's '66 RAC Rally drive in the Lotus Cortina was amazing.



#10 BobbyRicky

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:24

From the modern-ish era:

 

Jan Magnussen, Mattias Ekström and Seb Loeb comes to mind.



#11 plutoman

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:38

Can't really argue with Moss as the obvious top name, and others aready mentioned. 

 

But ... from the modern era, I'd nominate Jacques Villeneuve - CART and F1 champion, Indy 500 winner, 2nd at Le Mans, occasional front runner in NASCAR, winner in Ice racing series and currently racing in Rallycross for fun.



#12 DampMongoose

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:43

Vic Elford.....'67 European Rally Champion....'68 Monte Carlo Rally Winner then a week later Daytona 24 Hr winner  

Winner of 1st ever Rallycross in '67.......and 4th in F1 in '68 French GP :drunk:

 

You've missed off his two 500km Nurburgring Wins, 3 Nurburgring 1000km wins, the 84hour Marathon de la Route win on the combined track, an amazing Targa Florio win from 18 minutes behind, the 12hr of Sebring... oh and his National Order of Merit for his bravery at Le Mans.  Not bad for an insurance salesman. 



#13 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:45

 

Can't really argue with Moss as the obvious top name, and others aready mentioned. 

 

But ... from the modern era, I'd nominate Jacques Villeneuve - CART and F1 champion, Indy 500 winner, 2nd at Le Mans, occasional front runner in NASCAR, winner in Ice racing series and currently racing in Rallycross for fun.

 

 

Interesting thought but check this out :-

 

A J Foyt

  • Foyt drove in the Indianapolis 500 for 35 consecutive years, winning it four times (the first of only three to do so).
  • Foyt is the only driver to win the Indy 500 in both front and rear-engined cars, winning twice with both configurations.
  • Foyt is the only driver to win the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the Indianapolis 500 the same year (1967).
  • He is the only person to record victories in the Indianapolis 500, the Daytona 500 stock car race, the 24 Hours of Daytona (twice, with co-driver Bob Wollek), the 24 Hours of Le Mans international sports car endurance race in Le Mans, France, as well as the 12 Hours of Sebring (his last major professional win, in 1985, with co-driver Bob Wollek).
  • He is one of only 12 drivers to have completed the Triple Crown of endurance racing (victories in the 12 Hours of Sebring, 24 Hours of Daytona and 24 Hours of Le Mans)
  • Two time winner of IROC
  • He also has 41 USAC Stock Car wins and 50 Sprint Car, Midget, and Dirt Champ Car wins.
  • He won the 1975 and 1976 Australian Speedcar Grand Prix at the Liverpool Speedway in Sydney (in Australia midgets are called Speedcars).
  • He has won 12 total major driving championships in various categories.
  • His USAC wins tally is a record 138 (The late Rich Vogler is second with 132.)
  • Foyt won the 1976 and 1977 IROC championships.
  • Foyt won seven NASCAR races.
  • Foyt, along with Mario Andretti, are the only men to win both the Indianapolis and Daytona 500s.
  • Foyt holds the closed course speed record driving the Oldsmobile Aerotech at an average speed of 257.123 miles per hour (413.799 km/h). He set the record on 27 August 1987 at a 7.712-mile (12.411 km) test track near Fort Stockton, Texas.

Edited by ahw911, 13 August 2014 - 12:01.


#14 DampMongoose

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:54

AJ Foyt worth a mention...

 

4 x Indy 500 winner (twice in both front and rear engined cars)

Le Mans 24hr winner

Daytona 500 winner

2 x Daytona 24hr winner

12hr at Sebring winner

Sprint Car Champion

USAC Champion x 10 or 11

Most USAC wins ever (138)

2 x IROC Champion

 

Edit: beaten to it!


Edited by DampMongoose, 13 August 2014 - 11:55.


#15 DampMongoose

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:57

Oh and a nod to the poster 'Nordschleife' for mentioning the idea for this yesterday, in then 'Name the driver' thread!



#16 markeimas27

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:03

In modern times, you have to consider Montoya. When it is so rare to race outside of your chosen series. E.g. Look at the careers of F1 drivers these days compared to the likes of JYS or Moss etc in the 60s.

 

Montoya has been fast in everything he has raced. He has usually won too.

 

F1 x 7 GP wins

Nascar x 2 wins (started to look fast on an oval last year before he fell our with Ganassi)

Indy 500 champion

CART Champion

Daytona 24 hour winner

Currently a winner in Indycar again

F3000 champion (when it was resoanbly competitive.)

 

I am pretty sure he would be quick at Le Mans too if he gave it a go. It would be good for his career if he did. 



#17 johnzaxxon

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:08

What about Mario Andretti?

 

Formula 1: 1978 champion.

 

IndyCars: 1965, 1966, 1969, 1984 champion; 1969 Indy 500 winner.

 

Sports cars: 1972 champion (with Ferrari); 1972 Daytona winner; 1967, 1970, 1972 Sebring winner; 2nd at Le Mans in 1995.

 

Stock cars: 1967 Daytona 500 winner.

 

Also 1969 Pikes Peak winner, 1974 USAC Silver Crown Series champion and 1978-79 IROC champion.

 

Four times won races on road courses, paved ovals and dirt tracks during a single season.

 

His first wins came at the end of 1950s, last wins in the 1990s.

 

 

 

Edit: Oh, now I see Tombstone has mentioned him already :blush:


Edited by johnzaxxon, 13 August 2014 - 12:24.


#18 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:23

Jacky Ickx had a great all round career too, from F2 whizz kid to F1 championship contender to multiple Le Mans winner, Dakar Rally etc.

He wouldn't dethrone Moss or Andretti from my top 2 though.

For all the listing of Foyt's achievements, the one I most admire him for is winning the treacherous Langhorne champ car race 4 years in a row (although not consecutively).

#19 JHSingo

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:26

Montoya would be a good shout. I'd love him to race at Le Mans with a chance to win it to see him become only the second driver ever to complete the triple crown. And on that note, Graham Hill. I think it's a shame we don't see F1 drivers racing in other categories on their weekends off like we used to. Imagine seeing someone like Vettel competing in a DTM race or something.

 

Some may laugh at this next suggestion, but what about Sebastien Bourdais? Didn't set the world alight in F1, sure, but has raced plenty of different things since, from LMP1s to DPs, to V8 Supercars and IndyCars.


Edited by JHSingo, 13 August 2014 - 12:28.


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#20 sopa

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:31

From the past we can find quite a few drivers, but I think Loeb is a pretty good modern example, given how specialized drivers are these days. Shame they didn't give him superlicence for the 2009 (?) Abu Dhabi Grand Prix to have F1 on his CV too. :p



#21 chunder27

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:44

Greatest all rounder

 

Jim Clark would get my vote

 

Quick and won in anything.

 

But what about Sir John, bikes and cars, Mike Hailwood the same.

 

Vic Elford is a great shout too. 



#22 rghojai

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 12:53

Glad to see Foyt was mentioned. Just w. Indy, what a vast difference in the types of cars he drove there.

By the way, a friend grew up in Houston, Texas, Foyt's neck of the woods, and her dad used to go to local dirt races, saw Foyt when he was very young. He said it was clear that Foyt had something the others didn't have.

#23 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:10

Marc Duez.

 

2nd Belgium Formula Ford

2nd European Formula Ford

1st Belgian Rally Championship 3 times

5th European Rally Championship

1st Spa 24 hour 2 times

2nd Spa 24 hour 2 times

2nd Le Mans C2 class

2nd Le Mans GTP class

3nd Le Mans GTP class

 

 

Wins in:

Volkswagen Europa Pokal

Porsche 944 Turbo Cup

Belgian Touring car

Procar Belgium

FIA GT

 

A driver driving 'anything' who have been racing since 1977 and who are still in the occasional race, last one being Monte Carlo WRC this year.

 

:cool:



#24 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:39

I'm going with Andretti because he won across so many decades in so many cars. Say what you want about the competitiveness of CART but the guy won the Daytona 500 in 1967, the Indy 500 in 1969, the F1 championship in 1979, and his final Indycar win was in 1993. 



#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:41

Graham Hill Mr Monaco? Heh.

Nah, mate .... More than Mr Monaco



#26 discover23

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:47

From the modern era.. Montoya.. I am struggling to find another driver in the last 20 years or so who's won in so many different categories: CART/Indy/NASCAR/F1/Sport Cars/F3/GP2

 

..and JV - CART/NASCAR/F1

 

Ambrose? V8/NASCAR/F3


Edited by discover23, 13 August 2014 - 14:54.


#27 kraduk

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:51

I cant believe none of you have mentioned John Surtees yet :clap: ? The list may not be as long but he has two and four wheels, not many can claim that


Edited by kraduk, 13 August 2014 - 13:52.


#28 Kraken

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 13:51

John Surtees without question. The others might be great on four wheels but he did it on two wheels and four wheels.



#29 ensign14

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 14:21

Andretti won the Blue Riband races in NASCAR and Champcar.  He won the mountain ride up Pike's Peak.  He won at Daytona and Sebring in sportscars.  He won on dirt ovals, paved ovals, street circuits and road circuits.  He was champion in Champcar and F1.  Not a bad roll of honour.



#30 HaydenFan

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 14:31

I'm going with Andretti because he won across so many decades in so many cars. Say what you want about the competitiveness of CART but the guy won the Daytona 500 in 1967, the Indy 500 in 1969, the F1 championship in 1979, and his final Indycar win was in 1993. 

 

Mentioned in a post, but failing to nominate: Dan Gurney

 

4 F1 wins

7 IndyCar wins

Never won at Monte Carlo or Indy to be in the Triple Crown winners list, but helped give A.J. his Le Mans title. 

5 NASCAR wins (albeit all at Riverside).

Won in the original Can-Am series

And a single win in Trans-Am and it's British Touring Car cousin. 

 

First of two (other being previously mentioned Mario Andretti), to win in the major racing series of the era. F1, IndyCar, NASCAR, SportsCars.



#31 chunder27

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 14:45

I mentioned Surtees

 

But I would also agree with someone earleir about Marc Duez, the guy is a natural, and one of the most sublime drivers I have ever seen.  great shout.



#32 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 14:51

I think there are many fine nominations here, for the overall absolute best we likely will never get to an agreement on. I am leaning towards Andretti, he was something special as a driver across many different types of classes. No one have suggested Tony Stewart:

 

Indycar Champion

Nascar Champion

Sprint car Champion

 

The drivers of today are as pointed out above not participating in as many different series as they used to, I have little doubt that most of them would be competitive in most series they were in if during their 'heights' and no something that dabble at after retirement.

 

And while I am at those a little sectarian Robby Gordon:

 

1st Baja 1000 3 times

2nd Baja 500

Score International Champion

Thompson Stadium Series Champion

IMSA GTO race winner

Daytona 24 hours 2nd overall

Daytona 24 Hours class winner 3 times

Champcar race winner

Nascar race winner

3rd Dakar Rally

 

:cool:



#33 ensign14

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:02

Caleb Bragg is the only chap who has won a Grand Prix and the Detroit Gold Cup, the biggest prize in hydroplane racing.



#34 johnzaxxon

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:20

John Surtees without question. The others might be great on four wheels but he did it on two wheels and four wheels.

Hah! Gilles Villeneuve trumps that:

 

Four wheels: 1979 F1 vice-champion.

 

Continuous track + skis: 1974 World Championship Snowmobile Derby winner.

 

 ;)



#35 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:23

Jeez, we going to get Fon de Portago mentioned at this rate.

See? Don't say I didn't warn you.

#36 B Squared

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:40

I'm going with Andretti because he won across so many decades in so many cars. Say what you want about the competitiveness of CART but the guy won the Daytona 500 in 1967, the Indy 500 in 1969, the F1 championship in 1979, and his final Indycar win was in 1993. 

For the record, Mario was the 1978 World Champion, Scheckter in 1979. Maybe Mario driving a Lotus 79 that season contributed to the confusion. I agree on your choosing of Mario.



#37 ahw911

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:46

Jeez, we going to get Fon de Portago mentioned at this rate.

See? Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

Well, the original rules did state "powered and wheeled"

 

I knew someone would bring up boats and snowmobiles!

 

Didn't really anticipate bobsleighs and steeplechase horses though.


Edited by ahw911, 13 August 2014 - 15:54.


#38 George Costanza

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:52

Mario Andretti by far.



#39 ezequiel

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 15:56

I don't think he was the greatest but he deserves mention: Carlos Reutemann

 

Argentine Turismo Nacional champion (touring cars)

Argentine F2 champion (single-seaters)

European F2 runner-up (single-seaters)

F1 runner-up and thrice third placed (Single-seaters)

Podium finisher in his only two WRC races (first F1 driver to achieve also a podium in WRC, apparently)



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#40 DampMongoose

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:07

For all the listing of Foyt's achievements, the one I most admire him for is winning the treacherous Langhorne champ car race 4 years in a row (although not consecutively).

 

All on the 'proper' dirt circuit too, I think they were all pre-'65?   

 

One other thing leaps to mind when I think of Foyt is when he attempted to ram Oscar Larrauri off the track under Yellows at Palm Beach in the IMSA race...  



#41 tifosi

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:13

  Mario Andretti

 

   F1 World Champion

   Indy 500 Winner

   Many successes in NASCAR/Stock Cars.

   Much success in sports cars.

   Succesful owner and a great ambassador for the sport.

 

 

 

   The most complete driver IN MY TIME.

 

 

 

  Oh yeah, and he's American!



#42 johnzaxxon

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:15

Jeez, we going to get Fon de Portago mentioned at this rate.

See? Don't say I didn't warn you.

Stop using Luc Alphand (the 2006 Dakar winner) as your avatar then. You're provoking people.  ;)

 

Okay, enough of this. Sorry, ahw911. I didn't mean to derail your thread.



#43 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:18

All on the 'proper' dirt circuit too, I think they were all pre-'65?


Exactly. I've always admired the drivers like Johnny Hannon, Duke Nalon and Jimmy Bryan that could tame that place.

Did Emmo do enough to qualify for this category? Only man to win multiple WDCs and Indy 500s.

#44 E.B.

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:22

Stop using Luc Alphand (the 2006 Dakar winner) as your avatar then. You're provoking people.  ;)


Hey, there's loads of motor sport / ski racing crossover racers. I resisted the temptation to name any. Or have any as my avatar!

#45 BlackCat

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:26

not on the level of those old time greats, but from the younger generation i'd think Stephane Sarrazin is worth mentioning as an allrounder.



#46 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:33

I like a lot of the names being posted / suggested. Thread title should be 'Great Motorsport Allrounders'.

 

:cool:



#47 AlexLangheck

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 16:38

I'll say Vic Elford.....just for what he did in the space of 1 week. Won the Monte for Porsche, and a week later won Daytona...... For them. Just think about that, and imagine that now. Unlikely to be repeated. Also responsible for talking the Porsche bigwigs into using the 911 in Motorsport.

Of the current drivers; Loeb - need I say more. Sarrazin - quick in everything. Romain Dumas seems to drive anything with 4 wheels and an engine.

#48 johnzaxxon

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 17:11

I feel that Steve Parrish deserves a mention. It's not very common for a successful motorcycle racer (5th in 1977 500cc World Championship, multiple national titles) to become a legend of truck racing.



#49 Amphicar

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 18:20

Mentioned in a post, but failing to nominate: Dan Gurney
 
4 F1 wins
7 IndyCar wins
Never won at Monte Carlo or Indy to be in the Triple Crown winners list, but helped give A.J. his Le Mans title. 
5 NASCAR wins (albeit all at Riverside).
Won in the original Can-Am series
And a single win in Trans-Am and it's British Touring Car cousin. 
 
First of two (other being previously mentioned Mario Andretti), to win in the major racing series of the era. F1, IndyCar, NASCAR, SportsCars.


Another vote from me for Daniel Sexton Gurney.

In 1967 Dan Gurney took part in Nascar in the USA, USAC (IndyCar) in the USA, F1 in South Africa, Monaco, Holland, Belgium, France, UK. Germany, Canada, Italy, USA and Mexico, the Le Mans 24 hour race in France, and Trans-Am in the USA. During that year he won 1 USAC race, two F1 races, the Le Mans 24 hour race and 1 Trans-Am race. I'd say that was pretty versatile.

Look a few years earlier and later and you can add drag racing, Bonneville salt racing and winning the first "Cannonball Run" in a Ferrari Daytona (downtown Manhattan to Redondo Beach, California in 35 hours 54 minutes) to his accomplishments.

Or if DSG is too obvious, how about Danny Ongais? a three-time AA Dragster Champion and raced in CART, IRL, F1, sportscars and on motorbikes.

#50 HaydenFan

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 19:54

John Surtees without question. The others might be great on four wheels but he did it on two wheels and four wheels.

 

He was my runner-up post. One of the top riders of the 50's. Had what? Like 3 complete undefeated seasons amongst multiple classes?