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Drove a Hybrid. Impressed?


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#1 saudoso

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 16:52

I'm not.

 

Got hod of a hybrid Fusion for 2 days in Miami.

 

Big chunk of the trunk taken by batteries.My luggage wouldn't fit.

 

Has nothing on my 2008 Fusion on fuel consumption: I get 12.7L/100Km here, the hybrid did 19 mpg, It's pretty much the same. Conditions where pretty much the same too, in city with good traffic, some freeway. Light on the right foot.

 

Didn't get used to the engine not starting when you hit the damn start/stop button - weird.

 

Not impressed at all.

 

Anyone else?



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#2 MatsNorway

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 18:08

Im starting to dislike new cars. The clutch got lots of travel but only works in a small area, Then the traction controll kills it, The steering is... horrible and got no natural feel++ ,The controls for radio/AC is horrible for safety push button stuff,  The car key is gigantic... And everytime i drive any distance with the safety belt off it starts bitching about it, i allways wear seatbelt anyway so stop bitching at the parking lot ++

I honestly prefer to drive my rustbucket 94mod corolla over the avensis 2013 model.


Edited by MatsNorway, 14 August 2014 - 21:08.


#3 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 20:33

The idiot alert is for the idiots.



#4 Kelpiecross

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 03:30

It might be a crap of a car but you are saving the planet.

#5 bigleagueslider

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 04:30

The US EPA city rating for a non-hybrid 2014 Fusion is 27mpg. And while the US EPA ratings are usually a bit optimistic, you still should have got much better than 19mpg.



#6 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 08:43

I have driven a few Prius,,, why would you bother. Gutless, small and reputedly in the real world not very economical. Just buy a Corrolla and save 300kg!

Ridden in a Camry hybrid [cab] It was better, but gutless. And the cabby reckoned his previous Falcon on LPG cost less to run, and lot less to service. And had more power. 

There was some hybrid Hondas about, where have they all gone? Scrap I guess.



#7 saudoso

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:45

The US EPA city rating for a non-hybrid 2014 Fusion is 27mpg. And while the US EPA ratings are usually a bit optimistic, you still should have got much better than 19mpg.

I don't believe I can get the Fusion to make 27mpg at steady 55m/h on the flat, no wind.



#8 blkirk

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:48

I drove a Camry hybrid a few years ago.  It was the most harrowing experience of my life.  The bad tempered, ill-handling beast threatened to veer into the next lane with every single ripple and bump in the pavement.  It wanted to swap ends much worse than any old 911 I've driven.  When I came up on a traffic jam in the middle of a highway ramp, I had the good sense to straighten out the steering wheel when I hit the brakes.  If I hadn't, I know I would have ended up in the weeds.  There's something seriously wrong with a consumer car that requires 1/2 the steering angle to turn while braking as it does to turn at constant speed.

 

I honestly couldn't tell you a thing about the drivetrain.  I couldn't ever stop thinking about the handling if I wanted to live.  On the plus side, it was the best training ever for looking as far down the road as possible.  I had to focus on a spot 2000 yds ahead to keep the car between the stripes.


Edited by blkirk, 15 August 2014 - 12:49.


#9 tcsparky

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 17:40

I owned a Prius 3 years ago. It felt "light". Not cheap or tinny, but light. One really knew there were strong side winds blowing when traveling on the freeway (motorway?). After a year, we sold it for $800.00 more than what we owed on it. This week we got a brand new Ford C Max Hybrid SEL. This is a much better driving experience than the toyota. It handles well and much more room. Most people I've talked aren't familar with the C Max. I descibe it to them as a bloated Focus. We will taking it to the mountains here in Colorado this weekend. Hopefully it will handle the ups and downs well.  



#10 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 03:56

I don't believe I can get the Fusion to make 27mpg at steady 55m/h on the flat, no wind.

I must be missing something somewhere. Yes I know a US gallon is a shortarse one. BUT those cars should use less fuel than that surely? 

I get well over 30mpg [real gallons] in a current model 4 litre Ford. Even my AU ute did  over 29mpg with a short diff ratio [3.23] With 1/4 tonne of load.  The Holden is almost there too. And a bit better around town. That at 110-120kmh on interstate trips. On cruise control, never the absolutely most economical way to drive. I have got 19+ mpg from a V8 Landcruiser at again the same speeds. That on a 2200km trip. In 40 deg C temperature, though surprisingly it does not seem much better in cool weather.

This has been a long term joke ofcourse, far smaller cars are often no better. But a 2 litre engine must use half that of a 4 litre!!!



#11 saudoso

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 12:15

27Mpg (US) = 11.48 Km/L or 8,7Ll/100Km

 

My Fusion does 12,7L/100km on mixed use average, the V6 Captiva 15.1L/100Km with VERY gentle driving.

 

Next time I'm of to the higway I'll reset the counter and check. But I'm pretty sure I'll get 9L/100Km or more on the Fusion.



#12 Magoo

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 13:59

I think people who appreciate hybrids will enjoy driving them, and that people who don't will, in turn, find reasons to have their opinions validated. 



#13 Wuzak

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 14:26

I must be missing something somewhere. Yes I know a US gallon is a shortarse one. BUT those cars should use less fuel than that surely? 

I get well over 30mpg [real gallons] in a current model 4 litre Ford. Even my AU ute did  over 29mpg with a short diff ratio [3.23] With 1/4 tonne of load.  The Holden is almost there too. And a bit better around town.

 

Really? You get better mpg in city driving than on the highway?



#14 desmo

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 14:31

I think people who appreciate hybrids will enjoy driving them, and that people who don't will, in turn, find reasons to have their opinions validated.


How true.

#15 Canuck

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 18:17

<anyone else have no end of grief with this quick-reply window or is just me?>

 

We replaced the Previa with an RX400 hybrid and while not enthused about the mileage it obtains, (11L/100KM consistently), it does have a good deal of punch when you mash the go-pedal within the city.  I tend to drive it like I'm 16 and it belongs to my mother and despite that heavy-foot, it continues to deliver a consistent 11L/100km.  I was curious about when the engine was running vs. not, so bought one of those $20 Bluetooth OBD scanners and the well-known Torque app.  I set up the screen with just a giant tach to watch and it gives me no end of amusement to watch the needle go flat as you cruise around under 50-55 km/h.  I'm an over-grown child.

 

What makes me nuts however, is the inter-connected, microprocessor controlled state of everything.  The very nice Mark Levinson head unit quit working one day, so Lexus pulled it out and sent it off for repairs.  That left us with no NAV (not that we need it) but more annoyingly, no climate controls.  Luckily it was replaced by a rental car during the worst heat of the summer when it experienced a space/time convergence with the light pole at the end of my driveway in the hands of not me.  Anyway, once we got it back, paid the enormous bill for the stereo repair (no thanks, I'll save the $70 and put the 4 screws in myself), everything needed to be re-set, including the power windows which would no longer operate properly without being run through a series of reset actions.  Still, it's a very nice car to drive and it's hybridness likely allows me to drive it like a hormonal teenager while still getting acceptable mileage.



#16 Magoo

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 22:25

Not to toot my own horn but.. I believe it was going on a decade ago here that I predicted that hybrids were significant because they feature and nurture nascent technologies that would eventually be adopted in conventional vehicles as well -- start/stop, regen braking, etc. Ford says that 70 percent of its fleet will be start/stop by MY2017. 



#17 Magoo

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 22:32

<anyone else have no end of grief with this quick-reply window or is just me?>

 

We replaced the Previa with an RX400 hybrid and while not enthused about the mileage it obtains, (11L/100KM consistently), it does have a good deal of punch when you mash the go-pedal within the city.  I tend to drive it like I'm 16 and it belongs to my mother and despite that heavy-foot, it continues to deliver a consistent 11L/100km.  I was curious about when the engine was running vs. not, so bought one of those $20 Bluetooth OBD scanners and the well-known Torque app.  I set up the screen with just a giant tach to watch and it gives me no end of amusement to watch the needle go flat as you cruise around under 50-55 km/h.  I'm an over-grown child.

 

What makes me nuts however, is the inter-connected, microprocessor controlled state of everything.  The very nice Mark Levinson head unit quit working one day, so Lexus pulled it out and sent it off for repairs.  That left us with no NAV (not that we need it) but more annoyingly, no climate controls.  Luckily it was replaced by a rental car during the worst heat of the summer when it experienced a space/time convergence with the light pole at the end of my driveway in the hands of not me.  Anyway, once we got it back, paid the enormous bill for the stereo repair (no thanks, I'll save the $70 and put the 4 screws in myself), everything needed to be re-set, including the power windows which would no longer operate properly without being run through a series of reset actions.  Still, it's a very nice car to drive and it's hybridness likely allows me to drive it like a hormonal teenager while still getting acceptable mileage.

 

I'm not a fan of user system integration (audio-climate-nav etc) either, but it is the way forward. Resistance is futile, unless you want to keep older cars longer to escape from the whole thing. 


Edited by Magoo, 16 August 2014 - 22:32.


#18 bigleagueslider

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 03:19

I think people who appreciate hybrids will enjoy driving them, and that people who don't will, in turn, find reasons to have their opinions validated. 

I agree. And I'm thankful I live in a country where I am free (at least for the time being) to purchase whatever type of auto I feel best meets my needs.



#19 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 06:38

Really? You get better mpg in city driving than on the highway?

READ! The Holden is a bit better than the Ford in metro driving. The Holden is not quite as good on the highway.



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#20 Dipster

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 12:04

I think people who appreciate hybrids will enjoy driving them, and that people who don't will, in turn, find reasons to have their opinions validated. 

I tried to drive a Prius once....  I could not figure how to release the handbrake. I dragged the rear around a bit before abandoning it.....  So I have no idea how it drove other than in arse~dragging mode!



#21 Canuck

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 15:37

I'm not a fan of user system integration (audio-climate-nav etc) either, but it is the way forward. Resistance is futile, unless you want to keep older cars longer to escape from the whole thing. 

What's the manufacturer's argument for that?  On the surface it would seem that bringing the engineering teams together for the audio and climate control projects delivers very little in terms of cost savings (likely the opposite given divergent goals).  In my case the CANbus host is different on vehicles with and without NAV so the the idea that pulling these two teams together reduces the total number of physical boxes lurking behind the dash appears misleading as well. From my limited perspective, it would seem to have been better designed to have the climate control module as the host as they'll all have some form of heater and/or AC, but not all optioned the NAV.  Oddly enough, the rear view camera continued to work through it all which I did not expect (and which did not help avoid the light standard / rear bumper/fender/tailgate convergence).


Edited by Canuck, 17 August 2014 - 15:38.


#22 Magoo

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 16:06

I agree. And I'm thankful I live in a country where I am free (at least for the time being) to purchase whatever type of auto I feel best meets my needs.

 

Unlike the totalitarian police state Canada where they force people into Priuses at gunpoint. 



#23 Canuck

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 18:42

It's worse than that! There's the mandatory Birkenstock sandals too!

#24 Magoo

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 19:34

It's worse than that! There's the mandatory Birkenstock sandals too!

 

At Detroit Tigers games they are now serving poutine hot dogs. More cultural imperialism from Canuckistan.  



#25 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 23:18

Re integration of non related systems - so far as I'm aware this is primarily driven by fashion. I cannot see any functional reason to combine the controls for the HVAC and audio in the same module. You could look at it from the other side, and ask why the driver needs to be able to access audio and HVAC at the same time, and if he doesn't why not double up on using the same UI for both.



#26 John Brundage

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 23:49

The passenger or combo of driver and passenger, might change HVAC and audio at the same time



#27 GreenMachine

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 00:07

The passenger or combo of driver and passenger, might change HVAC and audio at the same time


Let them fight over it ...



#28 Greg Locock

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 01:05

Like I implied I have no particular feeling either way. Given that just about everybody accepts switchable single tasking on their smartphones, I can't really see there is a big issue.



#29 Magoo

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:01

Re integration of non related systems - so far as I'm aware this is primarily driven by fashion. I cannot see any functional reason to combine the controls for the HVAC and audio in the same module. You could look at it from the other side, and ask why the driver needs to be able to access audio and HVAC at the same time, and if he doesn't why not double up on using the same UI for both.

 

Me, I would like three slider controls for the HVAC and two nice round dials for the radio, all with firm click detents so my fingers can find and operate them without taking my eyes off the road. But I am not going to get my way, am I. It's all going in the touch screen and surround. 



#30 Greg Locock

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:08

Not arguing, and this guy might not either (bolding is mine)

 

"Though the Tesla Model S is one of Consumer Reports’ recommended darlings, the premium EV garnered its share of reliability blemishes during long-term testing.

 

Consumer Reports’ Gabe Shenhar says that over the 15,743 miles he and his colleagues have spent driving the Model S, a number of problems have popped up, including:

  • Automatic retracting door handles “relucant to emerge from the coachwork”
  • A broken seat buckle in the third row seating section
  • Front trunk lid failing to release via touchscreen
  • Said screen going blank, blocking all access to the car’s functions"


#31 Greg Locock

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 02:25

Perhaps a better solution is voice control, in theory. In practice it seems OK for the radio and CDs, pretty much useless for phones and not even implemented for HVAC and windscreen wipers.



#32 saudoso

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:07

Me, I would like three slider controls for the HVAC and two nice round dials for the radio, all with firm click detents so my fingers can find and operate them without taking my eyes off the road. But I am not going to get my way, am I. It's all going in the touch screen and surround. 

 

Oh yeah! Some of my best memories playing with this: 

 

car4_22.jpg

 

Anti-theft was a screw hidden somewhere under the dashboard that would cut the battery.



#33 John Brundage

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 13:28

Let them fight over it ...

we do......



#34 BRG

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 15:47

Perhaps a better solution is voice control, in theory. In practice it seems OK for the radio and CDs, pretty much useless for phones and not even implemented for HVAC and windscreen wipers.

Heavy rain shower starts:-

 

"Windscreen wipers"

 

"I do not understand 'vineyard vipers'"

 

"Wipers, wipers"

 

"Calculating route to Ypres, Belgium"

 

"No, no, WIPERS"

 

"No wipers command understood.  Turning off wipers"

 

"oh shit, oh shit"

 

CRASH, TINKLE, THUMP

 

"Route to Ypres calculated.  Make a U-turn and rejoin road"

 

"Call 999"

 

"Calling 99p Stores"



#35 Zoe

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 18:38

That's just about what would happen to me :yawnface: Last time I tried voice dial in a new Audi of a friend. We got a good laugh from it, but I decided this wasn't for me.

 

More closely related to the original topic; the few times I "enjoyed" a hybrid rental I wasn't too impressed. Much more impressive from a driving pov was the BMW all electric test vehicle that socal friends of mine had for a year or so (forgot the exact denomination of the car). If the range would be a bit larger (you could go from NoHo to Manhattan Beach, but not back on the same day) it would be quite an interesting car (ignoring the costs).

 

@saudoso: more than 15l/100km for a V6 Captiva? makes me shudder, my 1979 Cadillac Coupe Devil with a 425 carb engine doesn't use more gas than that....

 

Zoe



#36 saudoso

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 20:43

The car is armored, adding some 250Kg, and our gas has at least 25% ethanol (and who knows what else).

When I got it the average read 19L/100km.


Edited by saudoso, 18 August 2014 - 22:52.


#37 tcsparky

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 21:51

I regularly get 800 Hectares from 10 hēmikotylēs of refined kerosine in my very modern and new C Max Hybrid.


Edited by tcsparky, 18 August 2014 - 21:51.


#38 munks

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 18:12

A few years ago the wife bought a vehicle without any input from me. Ford Escape, hybrid and CVT. Other than coming straight from the factory with a broken suspension (I kid you not), it has worked fine. In the spring and fall, with little A/C or heating being used, we usually approach 30mpg driving a fairly typical city/highway mix.

 

The price was a bit steep and the cargo space is not cavernous, but the driving dynamics are reasonable for an SUV and we are happy with it. In response to those complaining about engines not starting when you press the ignition button, my annoyance is the exact opposite on this vehicle: the engine always starts when I turn the key, even when it shouldn't need to. Why waste fuel and put wear on the engine when I'm just moving the thing to a different part of the driveway?



#39 gruntguru

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 01:53

Those with prejudices one way or the other will always find a way to praise or criticise. Most of the comments made here have nothing to do with the hybrid concept or a particular design or implementation.

 

The potential for a hybrid transmission to deliver significant fuel savings cannot be questioned.



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#40 Greg Locock

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 02:34

Hmm, if your driving solely consisted of long trips on the freeway then I doubt a hybrid would do much for you, except supply plenty of road hugging weight



#41 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:16

Oh yeah! Some of my best memories playing with this: 

 

car4_22.jpg

 

Anti-theft was a screw hidden somewhere under the dashboard that would cut the battery.

Gee, you got fancy Mopars! Ours got the radio [an option ofcourse] in the centre of the dash. None of this integrated stuff!

And a clock too! Probably had a heater too.

Mind you I do feel this is more upmarket than A Valiant



#42 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:19

Hmm, if your driving solely consisted of long trips on the freeway then I doubt a hybrid would do much for you, except supply plenty of road hugging weight

Greg,if  you drive really slow, then it will be economical. Anything over 80kmh kills most hybrids economy. Really practical cars,,, for inner city driving.



#43 saudoso

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:25

Gee, you got fancy Mopars! Ours got the radio [an option ofcourse] in the centre of the dash. None of this integrated stuff!

And a clock too! Probably had a heater too.

Mind you I do feel this is more upmarket than A Valiant

This look's exactly like my father's Galaxie 500. The clock and the arrow direction blinkers got me wet eyed. Ours was a stick though. And had an aftermarket 8 track under the passenger's side dash.

 

Mother, father, 4 kids and 2 grandmas used to go on road trips with it.



#44 saudoso

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 11:29

Those with prejudices one way or the other will always find a way to praise or criticise. Most of the comments made here have nothing to do with the hybrid concept or a particular design or implementation.

 

The potential for a hybrid transmission to deliver significant fuel savings cannot be questioned.

They key word here being potential. I didn't see any of it.

 

My point was, returning to Avis, if presented with one I'd decline. For starters, what use I have for a car that comes with the trunk a third filled while on a road trip abroad?



#45 scolbourne

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 13:57

I really think we need some better idea of the economy of hybrids, and especially plug in hybrids. Government figures may be correct for their test, but mean nothing in the real world.

I want to know what mpg  I am going to get when driving long distances ie Sydney to Melbourne along the Hume Highway where you can normally cruise at 110km/h most of the way.

Once the initial battery charge is depleted and you are relying on petrol what mpg can I expect to get.

The Volt relies on a generator to charge the battery which I assume is not very efficient compared with a Prius direct drive.I am curious to know how it really compares.

I am still driving a V8 Falcon which no one would argue is economical but it can still cruise at about 30mpg over long distances (it is rubbish around town on short trips as it takes a while to warm up).

I know hybrids are not at their best relative to other cars on long trips but we do need to know the real world results.



#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 15:24

Me, I would like three slider controls for the HVAC and two nice round dials for the radio, all with firm click detents so my fingers can find and operate them without taking my eyes off the road. But I am not going to get my way, am I. It's all going in the touch screen and surround. 

 

Amen.

 

The Tesla control panel frightens me. It seems like a demand to take your eyes off the road.



#47 Wuzak

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Posted 21 August 2014 - 22:30

The Volt relies on a generator to charge the battery which I assume is not very efficient compared with a Prius direct drive.I am curious to know how it really compares.

 

The theory there is that the ICE works at constant rpm at peak efficiency. Don't know if that works out practically.

 

The Fisker Karma also works in this way.



#48 gruntguru

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 00:14

Greg,if  you drive really slow, then it will be economical. Anything over 80kmh kills most hybrids economy. Really practical cars,,, for inner city driving.

That is not a necessary characteristic of hybrids. The ICE is optimised over a narrow range but as a result has a higher thermal efficiency which should result in better highway economy. Prius has peak efficiency at about 26 kW outpout which would correspond to well over 100 km/hr on level road.  As a result, at a steady 120 kph I would bet a Prius uses half the fuel of your Landcruiser.



#49 Greg Locock

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 00:24

http://priuschat.com.../#axzz3B4jrzoEW

 

about 60 mpUS gallon, at 60 mph, ie roughly 4l/100km at 100kph. For comparison my Mondeo diesel wagon aka the hearse is about 6.2 at 103 kph.



#50 gruntguru

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Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:04

Thanks Greg. Surprised the Mondeo isn't closer to the Prius.