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Fernando Alonso vs Kimi Räikkönen 2014 Part V


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#1051 Jovanotti

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:22

I like how this thread is going. Just 48 hs after Kimi for the first time this season managed to outrace Alonso we have already stablished that:

1) Kimi is faster than Alonso and always has been.
2) Mattiacci hates Alonso and loves Kimi
3) Kimi is designing next year's WCC car
4) Everybody wants Vettel, nobody will sign Alonso.

All of these based on irrefutable facts of which I can't mention a single one, but I am sure we have some guys here that will give us plenty of if's and but's that will show that the previous 11 races where just an illusion and only Spa is the true measure of both drivers, life, and everything.

Sorry, just needed to take that out of my chest. Proceed, by all means.

Dude, please tell me where people expressed those four points - as far as I can see, nobody. And if someone did, I think frequenting this thread should have given you a thicker skin against extreme opinions anyway, at least that's what it has done for me. Don't mistake them for the consensus among balanced fans :)

Edited by Jovanotti, 26 August 2014 - 19:23.


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#1052 NoSanityClause

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:27

Dude, please tell me where people expressed those four points - as far as I can see, nobody. And if someone did, I think frequenting this thread should have given you a thicker skin against extreme opinions anyway, at least that's what it has done for me. Don't mistake them for the consensus among balanced fans :)

It is obviously not aimed at the more balanced fans. But don't tell me you never were lured in or tempted to reply to some of the most outrageous posts? :)



#1053 Vinsin

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:31

Dude, please tell me where people expressed those four points - as far as I can see, nobody. And if someone did, I think frequenting this thread should have given you a thicker skin against extreme opinions anyway, at least that's what it has done for me. Don't mistake them for the consensus among balanced fans :)

to be fair to NSC, I talked about point 4 on my opinion that Vettel holds the key to the 2015 driver market instead of Alonso. Vettel being strongly linked to McLaren, Merc & Ferrari in the coming future.

I deleted it coz I thought it might lead to off topic discussions. I have no idea about point 1-3 though.

Edited by Vinsin, 26 August 2014 - 19:32.


#1054 Gorma

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:37

Alonso is not asking much more than what kimi is getting and given kimi´s performance is not out of place.

I think Mattiaci is a clever man, and he knows they need Fernando more than Fernando needs them right now. And that fact doesn´t leave him in a good position to negociate anything.

I don't think Ferrari need Alonso at this point if their plan is to get to the top in three years. I'd rather take one cheap older driver and a young gun like Red Bull did with Webber and Vettel. You want a driver who will be ready to dominate in three years for multiple years. Alonso like Kimi is getting a bit old for any team's long term plans.

#1055 Failonsonen

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:41

I't can't be any worse if KR can be more part of the designing next seasons car, no one has claimed that it would be designed by him or around him. Somebody has designed this years monster and given tips but it most definately hasn't been KR.

#1056 Cyanide

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 19:57

Oh for sure Kimi will be better in next year's car. I think we can say that with the upmost certainty because it really can't get worse than it was this year. 



#1057 DrF

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 20:29

I't can't be any worse if KR can be more part of the designing next seasons car, no one has claimed that it would be designed by him or around him. Somebody has designed this years monster and given tips but it most definately hasn't been KR.

I doubt any driver has much influence in the car design. They can give feedback and express their preferences but not much more than that.

Unfortunately for both these great drivers and their fans, the 2015 car design was signed off at least two years ago. Allison might be able to steer it onto a better course and Mattiachi may have all the departments working synergistically in time but the engines are frozen and all the other teams are developing as far as they can, so don't expect anything special from this team next year either, just steady progress. 2016 is a more realistic season to be expecting championships.

Edited by DrF, 26 August 2014 - 20:30.


#1058 Gorma

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 20:42

Unfortunately for both these great drivers and their fans, the 2015 car design was signed off at least two years ago. 

No it wasn't. 



#1059 AustinF1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:01

Nope, they're not illegal. If I'm inside and ahead of you exiting a corner, I don't need to give you any room.

Alonso was alongside.



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#1060 AustinF1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:03

Agree. I don't like the driving standards nowadays in f1, seems to be admired by some as 'hard but fair' but, sorry, crowding someone out is not fair. If you've let them get alongside you then the games up, you need to give them space and try something else. 

 

Magnussen was so far over the line of acceptable with his move on the straight I don't understand why more isn't being made of it. 

Yes, exactly. The "hard but fair" defense is kinda weird to me. It seems to imply that the drivers should be allowed to disregard the agreed-upon rules if they're "racing hard"



#1061 Kimble

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:09

Alonso was alongside.

 

if you are truly alongside you cant be squeezed



#1062 AustinF1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:10

The move on the straight was too much but the rest were just fine.  If you have made it far enough alongside on the outside then you can't really be squeezed.

So you can't be run off when you're far enough alongside? Then why did they make the rule?


Edited by AustinF1, 26 August 2014 - 21:10.


#1063 AustinF1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:11

if you are truly alongside you cant be squeezed

How do you figure?



#1064 Watkins74

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:18

I't can't be any worse if KR can be more part of the designing next seasons car, no one has claimed that it would be designed by him or around him. Somebody has designed this years monster and given tips but it most definately hasn't been KR.

 

True. Kimi gave input into this years Lotus.

 

 

edit: @Cyanide. Yes I am.   ;)


Edited by Watkins74, 26 August 2014 - 21:38.


#1065 Watkins74

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:19

if you are truly alongside you cant be squeezed

 

No



#1066 Cyanide

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:21

True. Kimi gave input into this years Lotus.

 

He gave input into the 2013 one and that was a pretty good one. 

 

Although I'm sure you were secretly joking.  :D



#1067 warp

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:47

It is obviously not aimed at the more balanced fans. But don't tell me you never were lured in or tempted to reply to some of the most outrageous posts? :)

 

:rotfl:  :rotfl:

 

Yes... Sometimes I read a few posts and I want to bite.

 

Luckily, someone already compared Kimi's move at Monaco with Playstation stuff, because I wanted to do it so many times. Sorry, but I have got stuck in that hairpin so many times in there on GT6 trying to overtake a car.

 

Back to my cage and meds.



#1068 Skinnyguy

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 21:53

Alonso was alongside.

 

That´s not enough to get right to room mate. Read my sig, it´s a half-assed short guide of racing etiquette.



#1069 currupipi

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 22:24

That´s not enough to get right to room mate. Read my sig, it´s a half-assed short guide of racing etiquette.

cant argue when you yourself admit it :p



#1070 Skinnyguy

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 22:36

cant argue when you yourself admit it :p


Of course it's half-assed. Signature space is very limited and there are lots of scenarios left out, it's just the a-b-c.

It's still enough to figure out this one though, it's point 4 if you haven't realized yet. Behind and on the outside in corner exit = you haven't done enough to deserve room.

#1071 AustinF1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 23:20

There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules specifically addressing your #4 in the way that you have, unless I'm missing it.

 

So what of this then?

 

 

 

20.5 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.

Seems to be a catch-all rule.



#1072 Skinnyguy

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 23:40

There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules specifically addressing your #4 in the way that you have, unless I'm missing it.

 

So what of this then?

 

Seems to be a catch-all rule.

 

1 and 2 are just the post Bahrain ´12 clarifications rewritten to be foolproof. They bothered to write them black on white, even if they were already policed like that most of the time for years. 3 and 4 are pieces of etiquette anyone with remote interest in racing should be aware of. They´re not written anywhere.

 

Basically, if you try to pass inside, only get a small portion of your car alongside the rival, and you spin him when he turns in, you´re to blame. While if you try to pass inside, get your car significantly alongside a rival, and you touch when he turns in, it´s his fault.

 

If you try to pass outside, and you don´t get your nose ahead exiting a corner you can be pushed wide. If you get your nose ahead, the other guy has to respect your position and not run you wide.

 

If you think that rule you mention applies here, a brief retrospective look at the way these kind of incidents are handled all the time should be enough to realize it does not. 



#1073 REDalert

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 23:51

Kimi's attempt at Monaco wasn't even clumsy. It was not gonna work, period. Alonso got caught out on a 4 car battle and made a judgement mistake, Kimi's at Monaco was play station stuff.

Or then it was "completely reasonable move" as Martin Brundle commented.


Edited by REDalert, 26 August 2014 - 23:53.


#1074 ardbeg

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 00:09

Or then it was "completely reasonable move" as Martin Brundle commented.

As I said, all attempts at Monaco needs luck, you can not pass there unless the person you attempt to pass actually let you go. Look at the famous Senna vs Mansell battle, Mansell on new tyres that was several seconds per lap faster.
 

If you are going to pass someone at Monaco, you have to gamble with bad odds and that hairpin is the place where they usually place their bets.

 


Edited by ardbeg, 27 August 2014 - 00:10.


#1075 currupipi

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 00:18

Of course it's half-assed. Signature space is very limited and there are lots of scenarios left out, it's just the a-b-c.

It's still enough to figure out this one though, it's point 4 if you haven't realized yet. Behind and on the outside in corner exit = you haven't done enough to deserve room.

define corner exit and how far from the apex, it you really want to get serious and play this game go ahead


Edited by currupipi, 27 August 2014 - 00:18.


#1076 currupipi

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 00:19

1 and 2 are just the post Bahrain ´12 clarifications rewritten to be foolproof. They bothered to write them black on white, even if they were already policed like that most of the time for years. 3 and 4 are pieces of etiquette anyone with remote interest in racing should be aware of. They´re not written anywhere.

 

Basically, if you try to pass inside, only get a small portion of your car alongside the rival, and you spin him when he turns in, you´re to blame. While if you try to pass inside, get your car significantly alongside a rival, and you touch when he turns in, it´s his fault.

 

If you try to pass outside, and you don´t get your nose ahead exiting a corner you can be pushed wide. If you get your nose ahead, the other guy has to respect your position and not run you wide.

 

If you think that rule you mention applies here, a brief retrospective look at the way these kind of incidents are handled all the time should be enough to realize it does not. 

very interesting this part, it doesnt exist



#1077 skyfolker

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 00:23

i did , i told you what they were , you dont like them thats your problem.

It's not about me liking them or not,it's just that your conclusions are plainly wrong.



#1078 REDalert

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:10

As I said, all attempts at Monaco needs luck, you can not pass there unless the person you attempt to pass actually let you go. Look at the famous Senna vs Mansell battle, Mansell on new tyres that was several seconds per lap faster.
 

If you are going to pass someone at Monaco, you have to gamble with bad odds and that hairpin is the place where they usually place their bets.

 

Well, maybe not luck, but skill and respect from both participantes.  And I agree with Brundle   ;)



#1079 currupipi

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:28

It's not about me liking them or not,it's just that your conclusions are plainly wrong.

fine with me , didnt know you were the official bearer of the truth here, glad to have had the honour 



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#1080 ardbeg

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:37

Well, maybe not luck, but skill and respect from both participantes.  And I agree with Brundle   ;)

As a driver you can only affect your own actions, so luck comes well into play when they are combined with the other drivers action. That said, it was not a well executed move, but had the car jumped just as little bit less on the curb, had he braked a fraction of a second earlier, had the car had just a bit more steering lock...

What I'm saying is that he was actually very close to pulling it off and then nobody would have called it stupid. I think it was worth a try, he had not so much to lose and was probably pretty annoyed getting stuck behind a slow Magnussen after Chilton cut his tire when he was running in third place.

 

It was certainly not one of Kimi's proudest moments, but Monaco has a tendency of inducing red cheeks.



#1081 Vinsin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:03

True. Kimi gave input into this years Lotus.


edit: @Cyanide. Yes I am.  ;)

No Chance Kimi gave input for Lotus 2014.
Nick Chester designed Long-Wheel Base and introduced it MidSeason with a statement from. Lotus which said the 2014 car will be based around this philosophy, hence there was benefits if they start working around this lenght from then on.

Kimi basically rejected the Long Wheel Base car and continued to demand Short Wheel Base back..... and look how right he was haha.
Also, Grosjean was hailed by Lotus at Monza as their new team leader, starting immediately.

Edited by Vinsin, 27 August 2014 - 03:05.


#1082 wift

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:14

Kimi's race engineer Spagnolo has been criticized pretty harshly in this thread. Kimi made some comments to Heikki Kulta about the situation...

 

Some quotes translated to english:

 

- Antonio is a smart and pleasant guy. I know him already from before, but from a different role. In race situations you have to make quick decisions. When you are making these decisions in your first year, it's definitely not easy, no matter how long you have been watching from the sidelines.

 

- When you get used to it, it gets easier and Antonio has improved immensely since the start of the season.

 

And some comments about Andrea Stella (Kimis former race engineer at Ferrari, with Alonso now) and having David Lloyd doing the radio communication:

 

- It would probably have been a bit easier with Stella, but in the end I don't think it would have made a difference. It was good having Lloyd there for a couple of races. Spagnolo could concentrate on the job he knows best.

 

- Another engineer in charge of communication is nothing new in my career. Mark Slade also used to be a bit nervous, when decisions had to be made quickly, and we had another guy in the radio those times as well, which made a lot of things easier and Mark could concentrate on making the right calls without speaking to me at the same time.

 

- In the same way, I think this arrangement is good for us.

 

Whole article: http://www.ts.fi/moo...aikkosen tiimia



#1083 Lontano

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:17


As a driver you can only affect your own actions, so luck comes well into play when they are combined with the other drivers action. That said, it was not a well executed move, but had the car jumped just as little bit less on the curb, had he braked a fraction of a second earlier, had the car had just a bit more steering lock...

What I'm saying is that he was actually very close to pulling it off and then nobody would have called it stupid. I think it was worth a try, he had not so much to lose and was probably pretty annoyed getting stuck behind a slow Magnussen after Chilton cut his tire when he was running in third place.

 

It was certainly not one of Kimi's proudest moments, but Monaco has a tendency of inducing red cheeks.

 

I won't claim to be as knowledgeable as Martin Brundle in F1 etiquette, but a pass attempt that leaves you beached kissing a wall without even making contact with the other driver (because he has taken evasive action to avoid contact, mind you) is Playstation stuff. He saw a gap and went for it, just didn't manage to make the corner on his own. Comparing that with slighlty outbraking yourself during a 4 car battle when the cars in front of you brake harder than you expect when you are not even trying to pull a move is stretching it a lot. I can totally understand Kimi's state of mind in Monaco: he went from fighting for a podium and having top 4 pace to fight backmakers for no fault of his own, in a circuit where you go around the same corners time and time and time again. I'm sure a lot of drivers (Alonso included) would have been in a similar state of mind, and would have made similar mistakes (look at Hamilton!).



#1084 Lontano

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:39

No Chance Kimi gave input for Lotus 2014.
Nick Chester designed Long-Wheel Base and introduced it MidSeason with a statement from. Lotus which said the 2014 car will be based around this philosophy, hence there was benefits if they start working around this lenght from then on.

Kimi basically rejected the Long Wheel Base car and continued to demand Short Wheel Base back..... and look how right he was haha.
Also, Grosjean was hailed by Lotus at Monza as their new team leader, starting immediately.

 

Driver's input during design is sooooooooooo overrated. 



#1085 Gorma

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:46

Driver's input during design is sooooooooooo overrated. 

I remember when Hamilton switched to Mercedes and  was proudly telling how he's given input on the design of the car like the seating arrangement and the position and the color of the switches on the steering wheel :D



#1086 Acathla

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:03

Kimi's race engineer Spagnolo has been criticized pretty harshly in this thread. Kimi made some comments to Heikki Kulta about the situation...

 

Some quotes translated to english:

 

- Antonio is a smart and pleasant guy. I know him already from before, but from a different role. In race situations you have to make quick decisions. When you are making these decisions in your first year, it's definitely not easy, no matter how long you have been watching from the sidelines.

 

- When you get used to it, it gets easier and Antonio has improved immensely since the start of the season.

 

And some comments about Andrea Stella (Kimis former race engineer at Ferrari, with Alonso now) and having David Lloyd doing the radio communication:

 

- It would probably have been a bit easier with Stella, but in the end I don't think it would have made a difference. It was good having Lloyd there for a couple of races. Spagnolo could concentrate on the job he knows best.

 

- Another engineer in charge of communication is nothing new in my career. Mark Slade also used to be a bit nervous, when decisions had to be made quickly, and we had another guy in the radio those times as well, which made a lot of things easier and Mark could concentrate on making the right calls without speaking to me at the same time.

 

- In the same way, I think this arrangement is good for us.

 

Whole article: http://www.ts.fi/moo...aikkosen tiimia

 

Ouch, this is gonna pop some balloons around here. 



#1087 Mauseri

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:09

I like how this thread is going. Just 48 hs after Kimi for the first time this season managed to outrace Alonso we have already stablished that:

 

1) Kimi is faster than Alonso and always has been.

2) Mattiacci hates Alonso and loves Kimi

3) Kimi is designing next year's WCC car

4) Everybody wants Vettel, nobody will sign Alonso.

 

All of these based on irrefutable facts of which I can't mention a single one, but I am sure we have some guys here that will give us plenty of if's and but's that will show that the previous 11 races where just an illusion and only Spa is the true measure of both drivers, life, and everything.

 

Sorry, just needed to take that out of my chest. Proceed, by all means.

This kind of posts just show how desperate some become right after mr. 6 tenths has failed to dominate his teammate. They cannot live without the constant bragging.


Edited by Mauseri, 27 August 2014 - 08:09.


#1088 MetallurgicalHedonist

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:23

This kind of posts just show how desperate some become right after mr. 6 tenths has failed to dominate his teammate. They cannot live without the constant bragging.

Whereas in fact, it is so easy: they only have to say that it was at least the last Ferrari WDC whom Alonso has to face as a teammate at Ferrari and that it could be difficult from time to time against such a driver. You know, where it kinda doesn't matter whether he beats such a driver or get beaten by such a driver, as he is a high-profile driver/teammate. You know, like it wasn't a disaster when Senna was occasionally beaten by Prost (i.e. by a former WDC who got his championships in that very team).
 


Edited by Buttoneer, 27 August 2014 - 09:44.


#1089 Flamini

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:29

Kimi's race engineer Spagnolo has been criticized pretty harshly in this thread. Kimi made some comments to Heikki Kulta about the situation...

 

Some quotes translated to english:

 

- Antonio is a smart and pleasant guy. I know him already from before, but from a different role. In race situations you have to make quick decisions. When you are making these decisions in your first year, it's definitely not easy, no matter how long you have been watching from the sidelines.

 

- When you get used to it, it gets easier and Antonio has improved immensely since the start of the season.

 

And some comments about Andrea Stella (Kimis former race engineer at Ferrari, with Alonso now) and having David Lloyd doing the radio communication:

 

- It would probably have been a bit easier with Stella, but in the end I don't think it would have made a difference. It was good having Lloyd there for a couple of races. Spagnolo could concentrate on the job he knows best.

 

- Another engineer in charge of communication is nothing new in my career. Mark Slade also used to be a bit nervous, when decisions had to be made quickly, and we had another guy in the radio those times as well, which made a lot of things easier and Mark could concentrate on making the right calls without speaking to me at the same time.

 

- In the same way, I think this arrangement is good for us.

 

Whole article: http://www.ts.fi/moo...aikkosen tiimia

 

Brilliant :) Thanks for posting this.



#1090 Lontano

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:50

This kind of posts just show how desperate some become right after mr. 6 tenths has failed to dominate his teammate. They cannot live without the constant bragging.

 

Getting a bit carried are we? If 11-1 is not dominating (clean races or not), I don't know what is.



#1091 AustinF1

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:58

Getting a bit carried are we? If 11-1 is not dominating (clean races or not), I don't know what is.

Yes. Carried away indeed....and while Kimi did drive a good race to a good result in Spa, FA only finished behind him because of a mechanical & a team mistake resulting in a penalty that put FA behind. Without that, he likely finishes ahead of Kimi in P3 or 4. I don;t think there would be any shame at all in losing out to a great driver like Kimi. The fact is,though, that it just isn't happening very often.


Edited by AustinF1, 27 August 2014 - 09:01.


#1092 Vinsin

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:06

...and while Kimi did drive a good race to a good result in Spa, FA only finished behind him because of a mechanical & a team mistake resulting in a penalty that put FA behind. Without that, he likely finishes ahead of Kimi in P3 or 4.

According to the theory circulating before Hungary 14 about how crap Kimi's race pace is, close to 0.5 Seconds per lap slower than the entire field and about 1 Seconds Slower than Alonso throughout his entire career.... Kimi shouldn't be 4th to begin with.

He only finished 4th because Alonso had trouble, Hamilton went out, Vettel decided to be slow, Button was busy with Mag while Perez and Hulkenberg decided to chill out their race pace for Spa.

Kimi 'sneaky' Raikkonen just got benefited from others or else he was truthfully deserving 15th position.

#1093 Lontano

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:21

According to the theory circulating before Hungary 14 about how crap Kimi's race pace is, close to 0.5 Seconds per lap slower than the entire field and about 1 Seconds Slower than Alonso throughout his entire career.... Kimi shouldn't be 4th to begin with.

He only finished 4th because Alonso had trouble, Hamilton went out, Vettel decided to be slow, Button was busy with Mag while Perez and Hulkenberg decided to chill out their race pace for Spa.

Kimi 'sneaky' Raikkonen just got benefited from others or else he was truthfully deserving 15th position.

 

If you think that drive by Kimi is the best he can offer, it's you who belittles his skills. He was outqualified by 1 seconds (1 second!!!! teams spend millions trying to gain tenths!!!!) at his favourite track. He has not been on Alonso's pace consistently and a good drive at Spa doesn't change the whole season. If it wasn't for the penalty they would have pitted Alonso first and from there on you can't predict how their races would have unfolded, as we don't know Alonso's pace on free air. And yes, the best Kimi could do was 4th because Hamilton got hit, Vettel (again) beat himself and Massa underpeformed (once again).



#1094 Ncedi

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:24

Only thing I find odd is how people who called Alonso's drive average in Hungary, now want us to laud Kimi's drive as the best thing ever. He drove a great race no doubt...but if you were happy to talk about the safety car in Hungary, Rosberg problems, Lewis' tires, Vergne, Vettel, blah blah blah then you shouldn't be surprised that some will try dismantle Kimi's race (which I, personally, have not done btw)


Edited by Ncedi, 27 August 2014 - 09:32.


#1095 caliero

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:35

This kind of posts just show how desperate some become right after mr. 6 tenths has failed to dominate his teammate. They cannot live without the constant bragging.

Mr 6 tenths is not dominating his teammate, he is just wiping the floor with mr. ice. Race 11-1, qualifying 10-2. :wave:



#1096 Jovanotti

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 09:36

If it wasn't for the penalty they would have pitted Alonso first and from there on you can't predict how their races would have unfolded, as we don't know Alonso's pace on free air.

Same goes for many of Kimi's past races, but I bet that if he got second rate strategy, again, and Alonso the preferred one, we would hear about the vast difference in performance, again. Every Alonso fan should be able to see after Spa what a suboptimal strategy can do to your race, without the driver doing much wrong. When the negative effects of Räikkönen's strategy were pointed out in past weekends, they weren't being accepted on your side's behalf and labelled excuses. I think we should put this line of argumentation to rest now.

That said, the driver qualifying in front has every right to get the better strategy, and that's exactly where Kimi has to up his game.



#1097 currupipi

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:44

Same goes for many of Kimi's past races, but I bet that if he got second rate strategy, again, and Alonso the preferred one, we would hear about the vast difference in performance, again. Every Alonso fan should be able to see after Spa what a suboptimal strategy can do to your race, without the driver doing much wrong. When the negative effects of Räikkönen's strategy were pointed out in past weekends, they weren't being accepted on your side's behalf and labelled excuses. I think we should put this line of argumentation to rest now.
That said, the driver qualifying in front has every right to get the better strategy, and that's exactly where Kimi has to up his game.

You yourself said it, you cant expect the team to optimize the strategy of the guy behind in detriment of the guy in front , much of these situations arise because kimi is behind.

#1098 Skinnyguy

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:50

define corner exit and how far from the apex, it you really want to get serious and play this game go ahead


Why would I need to do that? Everyone knows what a corner exit is except for you by the looks of it. And you really should be able to figure out where the squeeze will happen if you have half a clue. After all it happens because the driver inside does a normal exit even with someone alongside.

very interesting this part, it doesnt exist


Yes, it does exist, just it's not written. If you want proof of its existence all you have to do is to think about how these stuff is (not) handled when it happens. Imola 2004 Schumacher and JPM, Alonso on Hamilton in Spa 2007, Spa 2008 Lewis and Kimi in Bus Stop, Kubica and Alonso in UK 2010, Lewis on Nico Bahrain 2014... These are some of the well known ones, but to be fair it happens every race. The driver pulling the squeeze never gets a penalty.

#1099 skyfolker

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 10:59

You yourself said it, you cant expect the team to optimize the strategy of the guy behind in detriment of the guy in front , much of these situations arise because kimi is behind.

No,every time they messed up Raikkonen's strategy in the race when he was behind,he could have been given better strategy calls without jeopardizing Alonso's position,Austria being the most obvious example.



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#1100 discover23

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 11:23

Same goes for many of Kimi's past races, but I bet that if he got second rate strategy, again, and Alonso the preferred one, we would hear about the vast difference in performance, again. Every Alonso fan should be able to see after Spa what a suboptimal strategy can do to your race, without the driver doing much wrong. When the negative effects of Räikkönen's strategy were pointed out in past weekends, they weren't being accepted on your side's behalf and labelled excuses. I think we should put this line of argumentation to rest now.
That said, the driver qualifying in front has every right to get the better strategy, and that's exactly where Kimi has to up his game.

It wasn't Alonso's finest race.. But do we think that without the 5 second pit stop he would have been behind Magnussen? That is a good question, even if we hypoterically speaking swap their running order so that kimi still pits first.

A good and fair comparison is if you start adding 5 second stop penalties to some of kimi's races (this is the second 5 sec penalty for Alonso this year) on top of what you label second rate strategies.

Edited by discover23, 27 August 2014 - 11:43.