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Rosberg/Hamilton: crash and aftermath discussion [re-titled]


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#1 JohnWray

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:39

Now... I don't think Rosberg did it intentionally. He has been told all season to be aggressive, which got very clumsy against Hamilton. What I`m surprised about is... Charlie didn`t even investigate the case... no investigation... no warning... no penalty... nothing!!!!

I know the stewarts are trying to restrain themselves... however Rosberg interfered with the outcome of the World Championship.

Unbelievable... He will have to get a piece of the mind from Paddy Lowe and Nikki Lauda. :down:

--edit: he seems to be driving erratically losing out against Vettel and Bottas



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#2 hollowstar

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:42

They all want Rosberg to win this title.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:48

FIA to back off on Formula 1 driver collision investigations.

 

The teams argued that if the FIA no longer automatically investigates every bit of contact on track then there is a chance that drivers could take more risks - which would improve the spectacle.

 

Following discussions in the meeting, the FIA has agreed to a change of approach in how it deals with clashes on track from now on.

 

Up until now, under Article 16.1 of the Sporting Regulations, F1 race director Charlie Whiting has had to report to the race stewards any incident between two drivers that has resulted in a collision.

 

From this weekend's race - providing there is no formal complaint from a team about the actions of another driver - Whiting will leave it entirely up to the stewards to decide whether an incident is serious enough to warrant a punishment.



#4 JohnWray

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:53

sorry mate... but you cant just barge into someones tyres and then say "oh well stewarts been told to back off investigations". :well: :rolleyes:



#5 lokiman

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:55

Completely Rosberg's fault, but it was, IMO, a racing incident only. It wasn't obvious recklessness. Shame for Lewis, obviously.



#6 Myrvold

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:55

Because, going in to the corner, he was entitled to room, due to being alongside Hamilton (according to how "being alongside" is defined in the rules) - Rosberg kept to the track, backed off, and there was contact. It was a accident just waiting to happen as the championship battle get's closer and closer, also due to Hamilton chopping off* (See Bahrain and GB when it comes to vs Rosberg). That coupled with a gradually more aggressive Rosberg would lead to at least one collision throughout the season. 
It could've been avoided by both. Rosberg backing off 0.3 seconds before and Hamilton giving a tiny bit more room. And that's when it is a racing incident.

 

* Not the case in this situation.


Edited by Myrvold, 24 August 2014 - 12:56.


#7 JensonWDC

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:55

Ham forced his with his on track tactics this season

#8 Disgrace

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:56

sorry mate... but you cant just barge into someones tyres and then say "oh well stewarts been told to back off investigations". :well: :rolleyes:

 

I'm providing what I believe is the answer to your question as to why Rosberg wasn't investigated. I think the article will provide good context for the rest of the discussion in any case.



#9 johnmhinds

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 12:58

Penalties should only be issued for rule breaking, or reckless/malicious incidents.

 

This incident doesn't seem to fill that criteria.



#10 Timstr11

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:19

Given the FIA's leniency this does not warrant a penalty and I agree with that.

 

Rosberg did violate the team's recent ask not to race each other too hard. Rosberg was too impatient and too aggressive.

Taking out your teammate is always a big sin.


Edited by Timstr11, 24 August 2014 - 13:19.


#11 Paincake

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:25

They all want Rosberg to win this title.

Its incredible how there are still people trying to justify such unsportsman behaviour.  This is not the first time with Nico. Same thing with incredibly dangerous red flag incident in hockenheimring, and still the FIA just adores Nico so much that its almost very hard not to think of some kind of agenda in the minds of FIA stewards and Totto Wolff. I don't care anymore tbh. Vettel dominance is at least over, now we'l have a new era of Rosberg dominance, whilst Lewis is the new Mark Webber.



#12 Tapz63

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:32

Niki lauda agrees it was rosbergs fault.

#13 Atreiu

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:33

How many times were there drivers battling for posiiton there? And how often did they touch?

Rosberg seems imune to investigations...



#14 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:34

I still can't believe there is no investigation. I don't care if the stewards want to involve themselves less, this is definitely a time to get involved - leader taken out of the race.

 

It really isn't. Rosberg was a dick, but it was hardly anything the stewards should - or could - get involved in.

 

Now... I don't think Rosberg did it intentionally. He has been told all season to be aggressive, which got very clumsy against Hamilton. What I`m surprised about is... Charlie didn`t even investigate the case... no investigation... no warning... no penalty... nothing!!!!

I know the stewarts are trying to restrain themselves... however Rosberg interfered with the outcome of the World Championship.

Unbelievable... He will have to get a piece of the mind from Paddy Lowe and Nikki Lauda. :down:

--edit: he seems to be driving erratically losing out against Vettel and Bottas

 

Oh, he did it intentionally alright. He did it in a way though that he cannot be penalized officially. He respects Lowe as much as his neighbor's dog though, I imagine, and Lauda has no authority on him either.

 

They all want Rosberg to win this title.

 

That's so dumb it should hurt.

 

Given the FIA's leniency this does not warrant a penalty and I agree with that.

 

Rosberg did violate the team's recent ask not to race each other too hard. Rosberg was too impatient and too aggressive.

Taking out your teammate is always a big sin.

 

I agree, but what's coming they can thank themselves for. They shouldn't have asked. Ross wouldn't have, for sure.



#15 hittheapex

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:35

Penalties should be issued for the incident themselves, not their consequences on the world championship. If this incident had happened between a Caterham and a Marussia, the treatment should be no different. The rules should apply equally. It always irked that the stewards relatively tolerated Maldonaldo's repeated deliberate contacts with other drivers but threw the book at Grosjean just because the consequences were worse. Maldonado should have had a ban after hitting Perez at Monaco after his history with Hamilton at Spa.

 

Today was a racing incident, therefore there is no penalty. Rosberg couldn't just disappear, he was alongside going into the corner. Overtaking manoeuvres have been made into that corner before, Rosberg had every right to contest the corner, and Hamilton had every right to hold his line.

 

Both drivers, had they taken an ever so slightly different angle into the corner, could have avoided contact. I fail to see how this can't be a racing incident when this happened within hundreths of seconds, the blind spot where the edge of the front wing is, and of course, they both to an extent have to guess and anticipate how the other is going to attack the corner. Yes Rosberg was not affected anywhere near as badly as Hamilton but that's just luck. On another day maybe the front wing would have broken and Hamilton's tyre remained intact. Rosberg had more to lose from contact remember, being the championship leader going into the race.


Edited by hittheapex, 24 August 2014 - 13:38.


#16 Dalton007

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:35

It was a racing incident. And let's not forget how aggressive Lewis has been, okay they didn't touch at Bahrain, but it was on the limit. Loving it.  :clap:


Edited by Dalton007, 24 August 2014 - 13:36.


#17 f1RacingForever

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:35

Just waiting for someone to claim it was intentional. Racing incident imo. S**t happens. Unfortunate but that's how it goes.



#18 SHODAN

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:36

Penalties should only be issued for rule breaking, or reckless/malicious incidents.

 

This incident doesn't seem to fill that criteria.

 

While I don't disagree with your assessment, the Alonso/Mag incident on the penultimate lap looked somewhat similar, and did not end up in a collision, yet it was immediately flagged by the stewards.

 

Which leads us back to consistency of stewarding.


Edited by SHODAN, 24 August 2014 - 13:37.


#19 jestaudio

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:36

Rosberg is a jerk, pure and simple, i have lost any respect for him as a person and driver, 


Edited by SophieB, 24 August 2014 - 17:21.


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#20 Techcheat

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:39

Can someone post the link of the incident?



#21 JohnWray

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:39

Rosberg is the one who should have pulled out. Rosberg was not even alongside but a clear car lenght behind Lew (as evidenced by his front wing on Hamiltons rear tyre). Hamilton was on the racing line and had track position... i dont understand what was Hamilton supposed to do in that circumstance... he was on the racing line... and he had the corner... :o



#22 scheivlak

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:41

While I don't disagree with your assessment, the Alonso/Mag incident on the penultimate lap looked somewhat similar, and did not end up in a collision, yet it was immediately flagged by the stewards.

 

Which leads us back to consistency of stewarding.

That was quite different. And I would be surprised if it results in a penalty.



#23 zachary2142

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:41

So is this going to be the Lewis Hamilton appreciation thread this time? Good to know

#24 rhukkas

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:42

Rosberg's fault, He was a berk not to concede, but it doesn't warrant a penalty.



#25 KOMORI

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:42

Ok.... If it was Pastor or Romain running into Alonso or Kimi... I reckon the stewards would have given a drive through straight away.

#26 Ducks

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:42

Might have been a penalty in other season but not this one



#27 jestaudio

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:43

Rosberg is the one who should have pulled out. Rosberg was not even alongside but a clear car lenght behind Lew (as evidenced by his front wing on Hamiltons rear tyre). Hamilton was on the racing line and had track position... i dont understand what was Hamilton supposed to do in that circumstance... he was on the racing line... and he had the corner... :o

say yes masa no masa please come past, can i wipe your wheels down as well...................................



#28 thegamer23

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:44

What? Come on it's a racing incident, we see tons of them in all the classes.
Fisichella on shumi interlagos 2006 anyone?

#29 Timstr11

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:44

Rosberg is pretty much non-apologetic during the podium interview. Even more disappointing.



#30 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:45

both cars could have avoided it. nico tried the outside, it wasn't gonna work, he backed off but 5cm less than he should have. Lewis could have also left a bit more room there.

 

racing incident



#31 VolvoT5

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:46

I think it was a racing incident, Rosberg was a bit ambitious but Hamilton didn't give him a whole lot of room either.  It certainly wasn't overly aggressive like some of the defending we saw from Kmag today. 



#32 Disgrace

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:46

Rosberg is pretty much non-apologetic during the podium interview. Even more disappointing.

 

He's right about one thing though, it's not appropriate to comment before he talks with the team. It's the same approach he has taken all year with the media, and one that has kept him out of trouble.



#33 johnmhinds

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:48

Rosberg is pretty much non-apologetic during the podium interview. Even more disappointing.

 

he wasn't unapologetic, he said he'd have to watch a video himself before he made a comment either way.



#34 AlexS

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:48

Hamilton had nothing to avoid. It is the back car that has to avoid the car in front. 

 

Rosberg 100% at fault here , but he wasn't malicious or even reckless.

 

I think there will not have been contact if Rosberg car didn't waved and Rosberg didn't had to correct.



#35 SHODAN

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:48

That was quite different. And I would be surprised if it results in a penalty.

 

I don't think it was. Both incidents involved a driver not making it through the corner while trying to pass the car in front. Had Rosberg kept his cool, he would have ended in the run off, just like Alonso, instead of driving into Hamilton's tire.

 

Whether there is penalty or not is of no concern here. It's the fact one of those situations was investigated and the other was not that's the problem.



#36 Spillage

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:49

Because it was a racing incident. Thought he should have backed out of it, but then, LH should have given him the space. Mostly Rosberg's fault but it would have been harsh to slap him with a penalty for it.



#37 Diablobb81

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:50

Racing incident. Just watch Bottas-Vettel. I wonder though if Lewis will keep doing his chops.

#38 JohnWray

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:50

Toto Wolff has just given some strong words to Nico Rosberg. :rolleyes:



#39 DarthWillie

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:50

Hamilton not respecting the other drivers on track. Hamilton ignores everyone who is trying to overtake. He did the same with Massa and Kobayashi. Hamilton cuts across with the attitude that everybody has to back off for him. Sometimes they don't  and we get this.  

 

Funny enough if you look at the Hamilton/Maldonado crash from Monaco, Lewis expects the reverse from his opponents



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#40 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:50

Lauda on German RTL: Not acceptable, especially not at this time (edit: of the race or of the season). Rosberg should have lifted, he steered into Hamilton. Edit: When commentator questions this, Lauda strongly insists that there is no discussion, Nico's fault


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 24 August 2014 - 13:52.


#41 royalblue0

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:51

Toto definitely not impressed.  Quite surprised me.



#42 Timstr11

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:51

WOWSERSSS.



#43 JohnWray

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:51

Nikki Lauda some strong words for Nico Rosberg



#44 Timstr11

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:52

Mercedes management are throwing Nico under the bus.



#45 redreni

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:52

Because the fans, many of them Hamilton fans, insisted that the stewards should, and I quote, LET THEM RACE.

 

Now it's all "but not if somebody hits Lewis!!!!" :lol:



#46 August

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:52

I think it was a racing incident. OK, Lewis was ahead and allowed to take the line but where could Nico have gone. OK, there was the tarmac runoff but then people would be whining about Lewis forcing Nico off the track.

 

Unfortunately Lewis has had lots of bad luck and another 0-pointer was a huge blow for his title chances. That's why people are so angry. Had it gone the opposite way and destroyed Nico's race, only die-hard Nico fans would be angry and others saying the bad luck will even out.

 

I think no penalty was a fair verdict but I'm gutted for Lewis being again so much behind Nico in points.



#47 VolvoT5

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:53

I mean if you look back to Germany? then Hamilton bashed Kimi and Jenson making a come back through the field and there was no penalty there because it was considered racing............ the only difference today was that the incident ruined both their races.  In no way was it deliberate and I'm sure Lewis will return the favour on Nico at some point.  



#48 hittheapex

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:53

To analyse this I look at the history.

 

we have monaco

then the pressing pedal to floor in canada off track

now spa

 

Now usually if a wing hits a trye a small bit might fall off, or no damage, also the wings are shorter this year.  This to me suggests rosberg deliberatly hit the rear trye.

 

The lack of investigation seems barmy, charlie seems either too harsh or too soft.  But the question is why was there no request from lewis? did merc deliberatly not pass it on?

 

This reminded me of when schumacher deliberatly crashed into hill when defending his WDC position, and it won him the WDC.  

Not comparable at all. Schumacher took a deliberately tight angle into the corner, recovering from hitting the wall, actually turning towards the left and then swinging sharply back to ther ight once Hill was there. Schumacher was still turning in even after they touched, almost rolling the car as a result. What happened today was a marginal miscalculation, a matter of inches and there are blind spots, the drivers can't see the edge of their front wing very well. 10 years ago there was a bigger margin of error because the wings were narrower, with 2004 spec front wings we would probably not even be talking about penalties, but what a great, no holds barred battle the two had. If you start equating the deliberateness of incidents to the amount of damage on a car, it would be impossible to enforce the rules.

 

Rosberg was alongside and was entitled to a couple of inches more space. Hamilton would still have had hte inside going into the next corners, but that's the benefit of hindsight.

 

Mercedes management right to be unhappy about contact, but not the argument about when it happened. Sometimes opportunities only happen once. Hamilton made a small mistake coming out of Eau Rouge, Rosberg may not have had a better chance in the race, so he went for it. It wasn't as if it was a wild lunge, they were alongside going into the corner. Unfortunately, the drivers miscalculated by the slightest of margins, but by the very biggest of margins, many on this forum are overreacting. Be realistic, racing incidents will happen.


Edited by SophieB, 24 August 2014 - 14:25.


#49 spacekid

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:53

Because it's a racing incident, it happens, and the stewards have had a much more relaxed attitude to racing incidents in recent races.

#50 ensign14

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 13:53

Rosberg is pretty much non-apologetic during the podium interview. Even more disappointing.

 

Rosberg says he didn't see the incident.  Interesting.

 

Toto Wolff looked in a murderous mood.  Lauda blames Rosberg.  The replay shows that Rosberg most definitely turned into Hamilton.

 

When racing head-to-head Rosberg is incapable of beating Hamilton.  If Mercedes are now to adopt team orders it is clear who the no. 1 should be.  Rosberg's nonsense cost Mercedes a 1-2.  They didn't even get the 1.