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Rosberg/Hamilton: crash and aftermath discussion [re-titled]


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#3101 redreni

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:11

 

Not. Good. Enough. Admitting to errors of judgment are fine but this is the SECOND time such an “error of judgment” has DISADVANTAGED Lewis (Nico’s only championship rival ) and BENEFITED Nico. The other being Monaco of course. That is minimum of 25-32 points Nico has cost Lewis let alone all the points the team have cost Lewis.

 

Nico can be as apologetic as he likes AFTER the event but it doesn’t change a thing. Lewis is still trailing in the championship when he should be leading it by some margin.

 

 

What would you like Rosberg to do about that? Flagellate himself, perhaps? Apply to the FIA to see if they will allow him to transfer some of his championship points to Hamilton? Is there anything the team can do, given their commitment to let them race?

 

Personally I'd advise Hamilton and anyone rooting for him to try to avoid wallowing in a sense of injustice. Lots of drivers have won imaginary "what if" championships and can make a decent argument that they would have been deserving champions (Massa, to cite a relatively recent example). Lewis is better than that, he's already won an actual title, and if he wants to add to it he needs to forget about how many points he ought to have and drive according to the actual championship situation. He's got some points to make up, but not a huge number.



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#3102 AlmightyGod

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:11

Because in the team's view it was better for the team that way. End of discussion. It doesn't matter what's fair or not fair for the drivers. The team wasn't trying to get Rosberg ahead of Hamilton before the end, they were trying to get him ahead of Alonso and maybe Ricciardo before the end, because that's who they're racing, and with hindsight, they'd have probably succeeded in getting him past Alonso at the end if he had moved ahead of Hamilton in that stint. Hamilton would have been ahead of Alonso and maybe also Ricciardo by the end anyway, whether he let Rosberg through or not, had he not had the engine issue towards the end of the race, so it was a mere accident of fate that they ended up together at the end, it has nothing to do with the team's reasoning in giving the instruction or Hamilton's reasoning in refusing it, since neither the team nor Hamilton have a crystal ball.

Right. The same team that said they would never impose team orders, yet the minute they were put under pressure they went back on their own vow. Lewis was thinking clearly, more than I could say for the team.

 

If you answer was the right one, then why did the team agree with lewis after the race?. No matter the circumstances, asking Lewis to move over was a form of team order.

 

Regarding the bolded part, could you provide a link to support this statement. From what I have heard, both lewis and nico would have crossed paths again at the end.


Edited by AlmightyGod, 29 August 2014 - 16:14.


#3103 Longtimefan

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:19

I see the BBC are milking this for all it's worth today, Mr 'Lewis fanboy' Benson must be rubbing his hands with glee.

#3104 OO7

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:24

I see the BBC are milking this for all it's worth today, Mr 'Lewis fanboy' Benson must be rubbing his hands with glee.

Do you have problem with his article?



#3105 TomNokoe

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:27

There are plenty Lewis detractors in the media who more than make up for the journalists who praise him!

Edited by TomNokoe, 29 August 2014 - 16:27.


#3106 redreni

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:27

Right. The same team that said they would never impose team orders, yet the minute they were put under pressure they went back on their own vow. Lewis was thinking clearly, more than I could say for the team.

 

If you answer was the right one, then why did the team agree with lewis after the race?. No matter the circumstances, asking Lewis to move over was a form of team order.

 

Regarding the bolded part, could you provide a link to support this statement. From what I have heard, both lewis and nico would have crossed paths again at the end.

 

Can I provide a link? No, I am merely assuming a minimal level of rationality on the team's part. I am assuming they wanted to maximise the overall result and didn't mind which car was ahead of the other. Therefore I'm assuming they were worried about having the faster one (at the time) ahead of the slower one (at the time) because that's the way to beat the opposition. That's my starting assumption. I'm simply not aware of any other credible reason why a team would want to move one car ahead of the other, unless they're favouring the driver who has the stronger chance in the WDC, but it seems implausible that they would have been favouring Rosberg so early in the season when he had such a small points margin over Hamilton. Notice that I only said the team wasn't aiming to get Rosberg ahead of Hamilton before the end. They also weren't aiming to keep him behind. They weren't bothered. Logic tells you that, as Hamilton ended up finishing behind Ricciardo and Alonso, then in order to get ahead of those two cars Rosberg would have needed to get ahead of Hamilton too, but that's not what the team was aiming for or concerned about, and they didn't know exactly where everybody would be at the end when they gave the instruction. They just knew that Rosberg was being held up and if they swapped the running order, both cars would hopefully be able to run their pace, so they gave a perfectly reasonable team order. It's not good for the team for one of its cars to hold the other one up when they're in a fight with other teams' cars that are on different strategies - it's not about being fair to the drivers or worrying about who's going to finish ahead of who within the team.


Edited by redreni, 29 August 2014 - 16:30.


#3107 Zoetrope

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:50

It's nice to see team managed the situation. Good job by them.

But the apology seems fake after so many refusals to take the blame by Nico. Team just forced him to issue a statement.



#3108 LeClerc

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:53

 It's not good for the team for one of its cars to hold the other one up when they're in a fight with other teams' cars that are on different strategies - it's not about being fair to the drivers or worrying about who's going to finish ahead of who within the team.

 

Stop making sense. You are ruining the thread...



#3109 GoldenColt

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 16:55

62 pages consisting of basically 4 posts.

 

Post 1 - Hamilton did it.

Post 2 - Rosberg did it.

Post 3 - It's a racing incident.

Post 4 - Anyone who disagrees with me is nothing but an ignorant racist/nationalist fanboy who started watching Formula One on August 10th.

Post 6 - People telling other people they're making too much sense and are therefore ruining the thread


Edited by GoldenColt, 29 August 2014 - 16:55.


#3110 LORDBYRON

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:00

Post 6 - People telling other people they're making too much sense and are therefore ruining the thread

Why not get the mods to close it then.?



#3111 GoldenColt

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:02

Why not get the mods to close it then.?

 

Because

 

88611-beating-dead-horse-gif-South-P-ZqE


Edited by GoldenColt, 29 August 2014 - 17:03.


#3112 Ricardo F1

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:11

It's nice to see team managed the situation. Good job by them.

But the apology seems fake after so many refusals to take the blame by Nico. Team just forced him to issue a statement.

Actually I think it was simpler than that ; apologize or we'll suspend you for a race.

 

Does Nico care though?  He'll be boo'ed on the podium for the rest of the season but between Monaco and Spa he's garnered a 29pt lead in a car where he really shouldn't do any worse than 2nd in any forthcoming race.  That puts him pretty odds on for the title.


Edited by Ricardo F1, 29 August 2014 - 17:11.


#3113 as65p

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:19

It's nice to see team managed the situation. Good job by them.

But the apology seems fake after so many refusals to take the blame by Nico. Team just forced him to issue a statement.

Of course it's fake. Do you think any of the two would ever apologize to the other, if not forced?

 

Actually I think it's a big mistake from Rosberg to play along. It can only weaken his intra team standing.



#3114 sennafan24

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:20

Because

Agreed

 

I find it amazing that some of the posters are still bringing up Hungary. Nico disobeyed advice from the team at Spa according to Wolf, when he gambled with a risky overtake which he was told not to do. Yet people are still talking about bloody Hungary.

 

This also goes back to the fact that both drivers disobeyed the team before Hungary with engine settings. Why people are still banging on about Hungary is beyond me.

 

Whatever turns you on I guess 


Edited by sennafan24, 29 August 2014 - 17:21.


#3115 Jvr

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:24

Agreed
 
I find it amazing that some of the posters are still bringing up Hungary. Nico disobeyed advice from the team at Spa according to Wolf, when he gambled with a risky overtake which he was told not to do. Yet people are still talking about bloody Hungary.
 
This also goes back to the fact that both drivers disobeyed the team before Hungary with engine settings. Why people are still banging on about Hungary is beyond me.
 
Whatever turns you on I guess


I suppose so too. But wait, was Monaco before Hungary?

#3116 sennafan24

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:25

I suppose so too. But wait, was Monaco before Hungary?

Yeah, why?



#3117 Nemo1965

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:26

Agreed

 

I find it amazing that some of the posters are still bringing up Hungary. Nico disobeyed advice from the team at Spa according to Wolf, when he gambled with a risky overtake which he was told not to do. Yet people are still talking about bloody Hungary.

 

This also goes back to the fact that both drivers disobeyed the team before Hungary with engine settings. Why people are still banging on about Hungary is beyond me.

 

Whatever turns you on I guess 

 

Well, I haven't read ALL those posts you are referring to, Sennafan, but the fact of the matter is that Rosberg was still angry about Hungary. And we can ridicule that, and say: 'Jezus, that was three weeks ago, and Malaysia was a year ago.' But Rosberg tried to make a point because it still mattered to HIM. Hungary was where the seed of Spa was sown... if we like it or not.



#3118 bourbon

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:28

Actually I think it was simpler than that ; apologize or we'll suspend you for a race.

 

Does Nico care though?  He'll be boo'ed on the podium for the rest of the season but between Monaco and Spa he's garnered a 29pt lead in a car where he really shouldn't do any worse than 2nd in any forthcoming race.  That puts him pretty odds on for the title.

 

No he won't.  After Singapore you get into the parts of the world where the majority of fans consider booing F1 drivers classless. 

 

The drivers have put it behind them, maybe their fans should too.



#3119 sennafan24

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:35

Well, I haven't read ALL those posts you are referring to, Sennafan, but the fact of the matter is that Rosberg was still angry about Hungary. And we can ridicule that, and say: 'Jezus, that was three weeks ago, and Malaysia was a year ago.' But Rosberg tried to make a point because it still mattered to HIM. Hungary was where the seed of Spa was sown... if we like it or not.

My point was more to underline that demonizing Lewis for Hungary is a bit daft. When we consider that Nico (and Lewis) have disobeyed the team beforehand. It is not like some sacred code was broken at Hungary.

 

I have said this before, if Nico wanted to prove a point, do it on track by beating Lewis clean. What point did he make at Spa? The point that he can flat spot his tyre whilst passing Bottas? The point that he makes bad starts? The point that he can disobey the team and go for a reckless overtake?

 

I get that the seeds of this have been building. But Nico did not go about it in the proper way.



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#3120 Jvr

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:37

Yeah, why?


Because it is also brougth back to the discussion as frequently as Hungary, some even considered Spa, completely separate event as a proof that Nico parked in Monaco. So I guess I am as tired with that as you are with people continuing mulling about Hungary.

#3121 D.M.N.

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:39

Five days after the accident, we've had the initial reaction, pundit's opinion and the statements from Mercedes, Hamilton and Rosberg which appear to give some closure to the matter.

 

The discussions in this thread seem to be going around on circles, with constructive posts few and far between. With regret, I am closing this thread. Of course, should anything new emerge in the forthcoming weeks, then by all means we can re-open this thread, but in the meantime, should anyone wish to discuss Belgium in the context of the season as a whole, please do so here: http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-vi/



#3122 sennafan24

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 17:39

Because it is also brougth back to the discussion as frequently as Hungary, some even considered Spa, completely separate event as a proof that Nico parked in Monaco. So I guess I am as tired with that as you are with people continuing mulling about Hungary.

Other than a brief conversation in another thread thanks to comments by Peter Windsor. I have barely seen anything about Monaco lately.