Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 3 votes

Is Maldonado the most fluke winner F1 has ever had?


  • Please log in to reply
162 replies to this topic

#1 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:13

I watched the highlights of Belgium today and noticed Pastor for the first time all weekend. Crashing during a practice session. Sigh.

Honestly, he's been anonymous all year. Highest finish 12th and totally outdriven by Grosjean when his car finishes.

He was anonymous in 2013, too. Beaten by a rookie Bottas.

Considering neither of those drivers has won a race (yet), is it becoming a stretch to say Pastor's win was more of a display of the quality of the 2012 Williams than of his driving ability? I can't actually think of an impressive race by him outside of that one 2012 car.

Brambilla even managed a handy season in 1977 at Surtees - his second best result (4th) is actually better than Pastor's (5th)!

Advertisement

#2 MetallurgicalHedonist

MetallurgicalHedonist
  • Member

  • 498 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:18

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.



#3 Imateria

Imateria
  • Member

  • 367 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:18

I wouldn't call it flukey, he drove very well to beat Alonso and he had several other great drives that year, Singapore and Abu Dhabi come to mind especially. However, he's had two particularly bad cars in a row now, so wasn't likely to star regardless, and I think Grosjean is a more naturally talented driver anyway, certainly the Frenchman has shown a greater propensity to  learn from his mistakes, eventually. 



#4 MrPodium

MrPodium
  • Member

  • 572 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:19

I don't really know, as my history of F1 isn't fantastic, as I only started watching in the late 80's - early 90's. But I do know the start of the 2012 season was nothing more than a lottery decided by Pirelli as nobody had a clue about their tyres. If your team was fortunate enough to luck into a good setup, you were in with a good chance of winning the race. Hence seven different winners in the first seven races. So quite possibly Maldonado may have been the luckiest driver ever. But I'm sure there are many other examples out there, as this thread will now demonstrate.

 

 

PS - Just seen the mention of Panis. I knew he would be on the forefront of people's minds. However, Panis had a few decent results in his time, Maldonado on the other hand hasn't.


Edited by MrPodium, 26 August 2014 - 16:20.


#5 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 2,933 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:19

Is Williams from 2012 one of the most wasted top cars of all time? I guess a top driver would have scored 100+ points over a season for sure, and who knows how much more...



#6 Woody3says

Woody3says
  • Member

  • 424 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:20

I consider him an absolute tool most any day BUT that day in Spain he was absolutely on fire. He held of Alonso who would have tortured his own mother to get the home win. The win was deserved, even if his continued race seat is not.



#7 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:21

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.


Edited by Burtros, 26 August 2014 - 16:21.


#8 chunder27

chunder27
  • Member

  • 939 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:22

I do not think that win was a fluke, he dorve very nicely.

 

but let's be frank, since then he has been a miserable waste of a seat, who's only real contribution to F1 has been financial.

 

As for one off winners, there are a few I know who might qualify, Panis at Monaco wasnt that fairly lucky?

 

I was going to say Brambilla aswel, Alan Jones oin the Shadow?

 

Did Revson deserve to win his race or was he lucky I dont know?  Some one off winners were fully deserving like Alboreto in the Tyrrell in Vegas, Trulli and Fisichella's wins.

 

Must be quite a few lucky ones really.



#9 TomNokoe

TomNokoe
  • Member

  • 4,654 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:22

Kovalainen was pretty flukey.

#10 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 2,933 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:25

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.

 

I think the main issue isn't the win itself, because Maldonado's win was way better than, say, Kovalainen's sole win. But the main issue is contrast to most other Maldonado's performances, which aren't usually even remotely close to the standard of Spain 2012. Hence the "fluke" part.



#11 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 11,484 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:26

 

Did Revson deserve to win his race or was he lucky I dont know?  

For a start, he won more than one   ;)

 

I nominate Giancarlo Baghetti.



#12 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 2,933 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:28

For a start, he won more than one   ;)

 

I nominate Giancarlo Baghetti.

 

That's a good one. He won a race in which he had by far the best car and all his team-mates retired. Really perfect situation for an underperforming driver! Even more incredible it happened in his very first race...



#13 E.B.

E.B.
  • Member

  • 1,749 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:31

Revson at Mosport was my first thought (in F1 anyway), though Massa at Spa in 08 and De Angelis at Imola in 85 weren't far behind - or rather, they WERE far behind, hence the flukiness.

#14 jestaudio

jestaudio
  • Member

  • 797 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:31

He reminds me of the song "money talks", honestly he has no place in F1 and without the money would,nt make the grade at the local banger race, unskilled, unpleasant and a total cock



#15 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,340 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:32

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

 

He wasn't in F1 in 2012.



#16 SpeedRacer`

SpeedRacer`
  • Member

  • 764 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:33



First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

 

Probably because he wasn't even driving in F1 in 2012  :drunk:  :) 

 

Herbert's win at Monza 1995 was even more fluky. It was ridiculous, about half the field in front of him retired and he almost got beaten by Hakkinen in an awful McLaren who had to pit on the opening laps.



#17 Imateria

Imateria
  • Member

  • 367 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:33

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

The car was excellent, but Barichello didn't win any races because he was in IndyCar at the time racing for KV.

 

I've often felt that if you mashed together 2012 spec Senna and Maldonado you would have had one very good driver. Pastor was excellent in qualy but liked to run into everybody whilst Senna couldn't qualify well to save his life (or career) but was usually very good in the races, he just tended to be doing it from 16th/17th stopping him from getting big points.



#18 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:34

He wasn't in F1 in 2012.

 

Darn I always forget the Bruno Senna year!!

 

Ok, so maybe thats why his team mate didnt win a race. I'll take correction on that one.



#19 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,340 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:34

Some people will probably say Jean Alesi.

But I disagree, N'ring 1995 says otherwise. In fact, his whole 1995 season was some great driving. Finished no lower than 5th and had several retirements. If only his Ferrari would last back then. He was 14 points behind Michael after the 1995 British GP....


Edited by George Costanza, 26 August 2014 - 16:39.


Advertisement

#20 E.B.

E.B.
  • Member

  • 1,749 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:39

The question is slightly ambiguous - does a great driver having a very lucky win count or not? I took it to mean anyone having a lucky win on that day, but some of the replies seem to take drivers' whole careers into account.

#21 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,026 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:40

He has the speed. The problem will be temperament and motivation. 

 

He more or less beat Bottas last year until the last few races (qualifying and races for the most part). The only thing was that the car was so bad he only had 1 point to show for it until Williams ditched the EBD and suddenly the car was competitive.

 

Bottas didn't spank him. They were evenly matched for the most part.

 

How he must be regretting leaving Williams now!



#22 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,340 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:42

Is Williams from 2012 one of the most wasted top cars of all time? I guess a top driver would have scored 100+ points over a season for sure, and who knows how much more...

 

In the right hands, maybe Fernando Alonso, it would have been challenging for the world championship.



#23 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,739 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:44

whats interesting is the team called the stratagy perfectly all weekend for pastor, he had a full set of fresh prime tyres (prefered race tyre) and alonso didnt.

 

pastor can be a very good driver, but he seems to drift away from that more and more, and i dont know why



#24 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,748 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:47

Could be. But was his Spain 2012 really worse than, let's say, Panis' Monaco 1996? At least he was really fighting against Alonso (a win contender who remained in the race from beginning to end). In the case of Panis, everyone (contending for the win) retired.

 

But Panis had some good results in 97 before he injured himself, and he was among the fastest on the wet Monaco circuit, he wouldn't have beaten Alesi or Hill, but a 3rd place would've been well in his range even with 3 times the amount of finishers. Or even 4 times the amount of finishers.



#25 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 5,376 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:50

Using race wins as a criteria is pretty poor unless you think that F1 is a spec series.  It's gone more that way in the last 10 years but still far from a spec series.  There's 3 or 4 pretty clear groups in the field with Merc, then RBR/Williams/Ferrar and then McLaren/Force India/Sauber/Lotus etc.  Then the backmarkers.  I don't know how you'd expect someone to win a race unless they are driving for McLaren, Ferrari, Redbull, Merc etc.  And even then, a Ferrari has a pretty slim chance of winning.

 

His win came at a time when Pirelli lotteries were at their most generous.  It wasn't just his win but the results of that part of the season as a whole.  They weren't really reproducible like the way F1 normally is.

 

Separate from winning or not, Maldonado hasn't been very impressive.  Even just for his boneheaded mistakes alone.  His attention span and basic driving abilities seem below professional level.. on a pretty regular basis.  It's rare to see drivers in F1 like this.  Most of the time people say amateurish they are being harsh.  For example to say that Nico's move was amateurish, Lewis has done the same thing to Massa and Vettel in the last 4 years.

 

Where as with Maldonado.. it's pretty hard to defend him.  Other than winning a race.. there's not much else to say.  Sometimes in practices he struggles to make it into the garage without crashing into a barrier for no reason (China this year?).

 

To return to the original point, you can't judge drivers in F1 by winning races or not.  Grosjean and Bottas haven't won races but have been impressive in the last few years.  Maldonado has won one race, so on one specific day he was the best on track (results wise at least).  But overall.. over the course of a few years.. Bottas/Grosjean > Maldonado.  Maldonado is a poor mans Montoya.



#26 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,888 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:52

Monaco 2004 was a greater fluke. Basically overtaking was impossible and all possible challengers DNFed. Any Trulli never came close to winning except that day, IIRC.

 

Maldonado at least won on a day Alonso, Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton and Button finished.


Edited by Atreiu, 26 August 2014 - 16:59.


#27 MetallurgicalHedonist

MetallurgicalHedonist
  • Member

  • 498 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:55

In the right hands, maybe Fernando Alonso, it would have been challenging for the world championship.

 

No matter, how good Alonso is (and he is), but that's the same like saying "what would've Alonso done with the 2012 Sauber considering what Perez did sometimes (in Malaysia or Monza)".

 

Certainly, Alonso would've achieved even more than what Perez/Maldonado did in the Sauber/Williams. But fighting for the championship...

 

That's the same like saying Senna would've driven for the championship in the 1990/1991 Tyrrell (considering what Alesi and Modena sometimes achieved in those cars). OK, Senna would've achieved certainly more than Alesi/Modena but fighting for the championship? Well...



#28 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 915 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:56

I don't see how he could be termed a fluke winner when his win was manifestly not a fluke. Nor, in fact, was it a one-off. He qualified in top three four(?) times in 2012. His problem was his errors, not his speed. But I don't think guys who win a race deservedly can be termed fluke winners even if, like Brambilla, they never come close to repeating it.

Compare it to a guy like Kovalainen, who spent two years at McLaren (albeit not all in a competitive car) and yet never looked like winning a race, including all but three laps of the one he actually did win. I think he's a better example of a fluke winner than Maldonado is.

#29 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,465 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:56

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

 

Preparing for his first Indy 500.

 

Edit: I see you've already been corrected. I'd not normally be surprised that someone would forget about Bruno, but that was the race that he got rammed by Schumi, which led to Michael's penalty that kept him from getting pole in Monaco.


Edited by PayasYouRace, 26 August 2014 - 17:04.


#30 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,748 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 16:58

Monaco 2004 was a greater fluke. Basically overtaking was impossible and all possible challengers DNFed. Any Trulli never came close to winning except that day, IIRC.

Then again, he took pole with 0.36 second. from 2nd to 7th the time difference was 0.37. It was a good effort. And he wasn't far off 1st place on more occasions either.



#31 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 2,230 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:02

Has there been another driver who won a race but never had any other podium finishes?



#32 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,748 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:03

But I don't think guys who win a race deservedly can be termed fluke winners even if, like Brambilla, they never come close to repeating it.

Compare it to a guy like Kovalainen, who spent two years at McLaren (albeit not all in a competitive car) and yet never looked like winning a race, including all but three laps of the one he actually did win. I think he's a better example of a fluke winner than Maldonado is.

 

Brambilla might be the closest to a fluke winner of a race that you can get. That other drivers retire and so on, is one thing, you still beat them. However, in that race, they ran 29 of 54 laps. He won because he led at that point. That's more of a fluke for me.

 

Kovalainen is a good point, but he had two other podiums, and won a full race.



#33 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Writer of 2013's Best Opening Post

  • 7,046 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:04

There are at least five obviously more flukey one-time GP winners in the last 20 seasons alone.



#34 PayasYouRace

PayasYouRace
  • Member

  • 7,465 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:05

There are at least five obviously more flukey one-time GP winners in the last 20 seasons alone.

 

Come on then. Make your 7000th post a good one.   ;)



#35 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,888 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:06

Then again, he took pole with 0.36 second. from 2nd to 7th the time difference was 0.37. It was a good effort. And he wasn't far off 1st place on more occasions either.


Yeps, the one time he managed to hang on to his pole was at Monaco. The difference between his qualifying speed and racecraft was always notorious.

Edited by Atreiu, 27 August 2014 - 03:29.


#36 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,748 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:12

Has there been another driver who won a race but never had any other podium finishes?

Yes. Vittorio Brambilla, Pastor Maldonado (can change), Peter Gethin (who won that race at Monza where top 4 was separated by under 0.2 second, and top 5 under 0.8 (or was it 0.7). He only had 2 more point finishes IIRC), Ludovico Scarfiotti (also a Monza only winner), Giancarlo Baghetti (already been mentioned) and Joakim Bonnier from the very rich Bonnier familiy in Sweden - he drove F1 for 15 years, got one win and no other podiums :)

* Indy 500 drivers are not acocunted for. I have no idea about them :p

** Non-Champ.races are of course not in my mind either
*** I do think the ones I've mentioned are correct, they might or might not be all.


Edited by Myrvold, 26 August 2014 - 17:18.


#37 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:14

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

Barrichello was driving Indycar that year :D

I don't dispute the fact he was good on the day - or year - but he has achieved literally nothing outside that good car. One point since 2012.

His teammate was the forgettable B. Senna in 2012, maybe he was just flattered by a bad teammate and a good car?

Edited by Jimisgod, 26 August 2014 - 17:24.


#38 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 915 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:15

Brambilla might be the closest to a fluke winner of a race that you can get. That other drivers retire and so on, is one thing, you still beat them. However, in that race, they ran 29 of 54 laps. He won because he led at that point. That's more of a fluke for me.

Kovalainen is a good point, but he had two other podiums, and won a full race.

No doubt that Brambilla benefited from a shortened race, but his win wasn't without merit. He'd passed Hunt and Lauda and kept his car on the road, no small feat. He led by nearly half a minute when the flag fell. At which point he no longer kept his car on the road :p A one-off perhaps, but I think he deserved his win and would likely have won even if the race went to full distance.

Perhaps I am being harsh on Kovalainen - as you say, he won other podiums and also took a pole position. But I can't help but feel that two podiums and an entirely inherited victory is scant achievement during two seasons in which your teammate wins seven races and a World Championship.

Edited by Spillage, 26 August 2014 - 23:45.


#39 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 6,166 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:18

Panis' win itself may of been a fluke, but he was a talented driver who achieved, or should of achieved, two more podiums and other high placed finishes. He may have achieved more, but it's often been said he was never the same driver after his accident.

 

I see Trulli has been mooted as another suspect, but he was a regular podium contender who might have won more had Renault not been run by Briatore.



Advertisement

#40 discover23

discover23
  • Member

  • 3,906 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:18

Typical driver who will only excel with good cars.. At least he's proven it once.

#41 E.B.

E.B.
  • Member

  • 1,749 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:19

* Indy 500 drivers are not acocunted for. I have no idea about them :p


All Indy winners that decade had other wins and good results. One of its top drivers of that era had the flukiest win I've ever heard of, but it wasn't F1.

#42 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 2,748 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:24

All Indy winners that decade had other wins and good results. One of its top drivers of that era had the flukiest win I've ever heard of, but it wasn't F1.

other good Indy 500 results (when Indy was F1) or other good results outside F1? I felt the question was about F1 podiums.



#43 Rob G

Rob G
  • Member

  • 10,898 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:26

That's a good one. He won a race in which he had by far the best car and all his team-mates retired. Really perfect situation for an underperforming driver! Even more incredible it happened in his very first race...

 

Plus it was on one of the least challenging F1 tracks ever. Pretty much stand on it and go, with the occasional hairpin to get you back to where you were.



#44 Risil

Risil
  • Member

  • 13,899 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:34

Come on then. Make your 7000th post a good one.   ;)

 

Don't put any pressure on him! Remember what happened to Potmotr!

 

Btw this is a silly thread. Only Hamilton was faster than Maldonado that day. Pastor's 2010 was also probably the best single GP2 year anyone's ever had (Lewis's 2006 aside). Six feature race wins in a row! Maldonado is inexplicable and probably untreatable, but slow? Give me a break.


Edited by Risil, 26 August 2014 - 18:00.


#45 Ev0d3vil

Ev0d3vil
  • Member

  • 584 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:38

Heikki? Hungary 2008.



#46 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,282 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:41

He reminds me of the song "money talks", honestly he has no place in F1 and without the money would,nt make the grade at the local banger race, unskilled, unpleasant and a total cock

 

10 Formula Renault wins and a title

3 World Series wins and 3rd in the standings

10 GP2 wins and a title

1 F1 win

 

He's a nutjob, but he's not slow.



#47 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:49

Panis has 5 podiums and Trulli 11. I don't think either were a fluke to win one day, even if the wins they took were strange.

They are like Amon or Heidfeld, and would be strange if they didn't win once.

#48 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 26 August 2014 - 17:55

First you'll need to explain how going from pole to top step of the podium is a fluke. I thought it was quite a common thing?

 

Where was Barichello that weekend? If the car was so good why didnt Barichello win any races?

 

Pastor is also a GP2 champion. Pastor is no F1 great and I am no fan of his, but his win wasnt a fluke.

 

Jonny Herbert 1999 Nuburgring. Oliveir Panis 1996 Monaco. Those are far better examples of fluke wins in my book.

But Johnny won other GPs....I'm assuming by flukey wins you mean those by a driver who doesn't win another race...a 1-shot wonder, in other words?  



#49 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 4,887 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 26 August 2014 - 18:00

But Panis had some good results in 97 before he injured himself, and he was among the fastest on the wet Monaco circuit, he wouldn't have beaten Alesi or Hill, but a 3rd place would've been well in his range even with 3 times the amount of finishers. Or even 4 times the amount of finishers.

 

That's right. I remember Panis being the fastest man on track for a big number of laps.
 



#50 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 934 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 26 August 2014 - 18:03

Another MAL bashing thread, If you would seriously check the 2012 and 2013 results you would see that he is not too bad, but not on your agenda apparentyl.

This year is a very bad year for him, but the Lotus sucks heavilyand even GRO is apart from BCN doing nothing with it.