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Unlicensed F1 drivers


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#1 kayemod

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 08:38

The career progression of latest Red Bull signing Max Verstappen has got me thinking about one fairly minor aspect of racing history, is Max the first to reach this highest level without even possessing a license for driving to the shops? I'm pretty sure I remember past drivers losing their 'normal' licenses and having to obtain some alternative accreditation before they were allowed to race. Didn't even the greatest of them all Sir Stirling once have his road license taken from him, causing problems when it came to driving on a race track? Something along these lines has almost certainly been discussed here before, I did try a Search, but gave up in the end, no doubt Vitesse of some other TNF expert will direct me to an appropriate thread from the archives.



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#2 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:04

I think that is why they now have the "Super" license... to remove the need for the actual driving license...

 

I think I heard that he is the youngest ever F1 signing to date!



#3 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 09:28

The career progression of latest Red Bull signing Max Verstappen has got me thinking about one fairly minor aspect of racing history, is Max the first to reach this highest level without even possessing a license for driving to the shops? I'm pretty sure I remember past drivers losing their 'normal' licenses and having to obtain some alternative accreditation before they were allowed to race. Didn't even the greatest of them all Sir Stirling once have his road license taken from him, causing problems when it came to driving on a race track? Something along these lines has almost certainly been discussed here before, I did try a Search, but gave up in the end, no doubt Vitesse of some other TNF expert will direct me to an appropriate thread from the archives.

Stirling got round the 12-month loss of his UK road licence in April 1960 by obtaining a US competition licence.for the period of his UK ban. According to a press report of the time (The Times Apr 16 1960, p3) he already possessed a US road licence before his trial for dangerous driving and had already taken the precaution of obtaining a racing licence via the AAA (or maybe USAC? Not sure which was responsible for those). He specifically stated in that report that he had been racing 'as an American' since the beginning of the year.



#4 Dick Dastardly

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 10:41

Didn't Hamilton have problems with the law in Oz a few years back for hooning around on the road?

 

Given the number of race series that have 15/16 year olds racing.....and not just junior categories like Ginetta Juniors,

T-Cars etc...presumably holding a road licence is not a pre-requisite for holding a race licence?


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 29 August 2014 - 10:45.


#5 tcsparky

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 14:31

Alan Jones I believe had a suspended road licence due to "someone sliping Vodka into his orange juice". 1980-1981?  



#6 Tim Murray

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 15:06

Here's a related earlier thread (it doesn't just cover F1 drivers):

http://forums.autosp...rivers-licence/

#7 avmath

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 13:59

In this time there are many who doesnt have their license. According to the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Bureau claims that there are more licensed female motorists than men in the U.S.



#8 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 15:20

I don't know about the international situation, but in Australia it was necessary to have a current road licence before you went racing...

That requirement, however, was dropped years ago.

#9 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 16:53

Whenever the argument comes up about how young is too young, and you have to come up with a firm line, I've always felt you have to be old enough to legally drive on the roads. AND in position of an active/valid road license. So if you get dinged for speeding, dangerous driving, drunk driving, etc; and lose your license...



#10 bsc

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 17:43

Given the number of race series that have 15/16 year olds racing.....and not just junior categories like Ginetta Juniors,

T-Cars etc...presumably holding a road licence is not a pre-requisite for holding a race licence?

Each ASN is responsible for setting it's own licence criteria. In the case of Britain, the MSA stipulates that competition licences can be given to anyone over the age of 16 irrespective of whether they hold a car licence (as an aside, for truck racing, the MSA stipulates that each racer should have an appropriate road licence); however, if their road licence is revoked for some reason, the driver would be investigated to see whether they have bought the sport into disrepute and could potentially lose their race licence.

 

There are some series where under 16s can race (primarily BARC's Ginetta Juniors and Junior Saloons series and BRSCC's Junior Fiesta); however, licences for these drivers are issued solely on the basis that they are used for the named championships. Apparently this is due to safety reasons.

 

Curiously, the MSA can't prevent an 'under age' driver from competing in International events if they have the appropriate licence issued by a foreign ASN - hence Matheo Tuscher racing in an FIA F2 race at Silverstone as a 15 year old (and taking pole) a couple of years ago, despite his British contemporaries only being able to race a Fiesta, Citroen Saxo or Ginetta G20.  



#11 AdrianThompson

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 20:01

Whenever the argument comes up about how young is too young, and you have to come up with a firm line, I've always felt you have to be old enough to legally drive on the roads. AND in position of an active/valid road license. So if you get dinged for speeding, dangerous driving, drunk driving, etc; and lose your license...

But what do you do about different countries having different driving ages?  I'm an ex-pat Brit who moved to the US 20 years ago. Here (at lest in Michigan) you can have a full licence at 16 years old.  You can get you first level of 'drivers permit' at 14 years 9 months which allows you very limited road use with an instructor.  You then have a graduated licence system with different levels of restriction as to who can be in the car with you and what times of day or night you can be on the road.  

 

So, can an American start racing at 15 but a Brit have to wait until 17?



#12 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 14:19

I wouldn't have an American racing at 15, but 16 once they are allowed to have the full license(and possess one).

 

Is there an EU wide driving age or anything close to it? That's the only area where I think you'd run into legality conflicts, the amount of drivers getting to race in America on a loophole would be very rare.

 

As it is, we had a period in the 00s where under-18s couldn't race on certain weekends if there were tobacco sponsored cars in the big leagues. So some future NASCAR stars missed out racing in the support stock car class at age 17 because Marlboro Team Penske were clicking off 240mph laps at Fontana, and etc.



#13 Twin Window

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:14

Mike Thackwell didn't gain a legal road driving license until 1982, from memory. He'd done an awful lot of racing by then...!