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Monza 2014 - Guess the Top Speed!


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Poll: Monza 2014 - Guess the Top Speed (141 member(s) have cast votes)

Top speed down the Rettifilo?

  1. < 350 Km/h (25 votes [17.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 17.73%

  2. 355 Km/h (19 votes [13.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.48%

  3. 360 Km/h (35 votes [24.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.82%

  4. 365 Km/h (29 votes [20.57%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.57%

  5. 370 Km/h (13 votes [9.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.22%

  6. 375 Km/h (9 votes [6.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

  7. 380 Km/h (4 votes [2.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.84%

  8. 385 Km/h (2 votes [1.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.42%

  9. 390 Km/h (2 votes [1.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.42%

  10. > 390 Km/h (3 votes [2.13%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 2.13%

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#1 thegamer23

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 18:56

38679.jpg

 

 

Velocit%C3%A0-massime-gara-Monza-1983-20

 

 

AND NOW? 

Here we are guys!
Only a couple of days and it will be Monza time, the fastest F1 race on the calendar (and also the shortest in terms of racing time unfortunately  :cry: )
5.793 m of pure passion, adrenaline and history, crowded by Ferrari's tifosi all around the hills and along the straights.

 



More than ever, thanks to the enormous torque and power generated by the new V6 Hybrid Engines, Monza 2014 is set to be one of the most interesting races in the calendar. 
347 Km/h by Massa in Montreal, 345 km/h by Hamilton in Hockenheim (not a low downforce circuit anymore), 344 km/h by Hulkenberg in Spa, this year's F1 cars are straightline beasts. 

Now we arrive in Monza, "Il tempio della velocita'" (the temple of speed), with extremely low (well, even lower than the 2014 standards) downforce set-up and huge Power Unit recovery thanks to the violent braking points and accelerations.

 

Last year 


Maximum top speed was set by Daniel Ricciardo (Toro Rosso) in 340.4 Km/h, followed closely by Sauber guys. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------


What kind of speed we'll see down the Rettifilo straight (1.194 m) this year and wich car do you think will be able to achieve the top value?  
Will Montoya's 2005 official speed record collapse under the power of the new Hybrid V6's?   :smoking:


Edited by thegamer23, 31 August 2014 - 10:19.


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#2 Andrew Hope

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 19:05

I read the top speeds from the bottom to the top and was picturing for a moment a passenger train trying to brake for the first chicane.



#3 David Lightman

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 19:14

It will be fun this year, although I am scared that Maldonado will be doing those speeds with other cars present.

#4 Gyno

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 19:21

I remember Schumi did in 2004 on a test day 1 week before the race or 1 week after the race something like 377kph.



#5 ANF

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 19:24

352.3 km/h.



#6 ollebompa

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 19:28

I'm guessing 380 km/h, not because I think it's going to happen, but because that's what I want it to be.



#7 f1RacingForever

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 23:26

In that case how about 400.....by a Caterham. o_o

#8 Atreiu

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 00:05

350 tops. They still have to find a way to go around some corners.

#9 Jazza

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 00:31

I don't think the are going to be that quick. The low downforce and good acceleration has given them massively higher speeds than in the V8 era around most tracks. But they have always raced with low downforce here by choice, so there probably won't be much of a drag advantage here compared to years past. In outright power these things have a bit more than the V8's, but they have nowhere near as much power as the V10's. For that reason I can't imagine them getting close to the top speed of the V10's near the end of their time. Probably speeds similar to the late 90's (high 350's or maybe even low 360's)

#10 PAGATRON

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 01:09

f1w05hybrid2014.jpg

She'll make .5 past light speed



#11 TF110

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:36

355-365kmh imo. They have less drag this year without the beam wing. I think Force India and Williams will be experimenting. I predict one of those two will be tops in the speed traps.

#12 Risil

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 04:16

I read the top speeds from the bottom to the top and was picturing for a moment a passenger train trying to brake for the first chicane.

 

When you think about it, there are so many things other than cars that would be better to race.



#13 Jejking

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:55

Having said that, those Mercs are maybe finally going to get their 8th gear engaged. First time this season it was Rosberg in Hamiltons tow at lap 2 last weekend, he switched up to 8th to get past. DRS + ERS + tow + Merc power got Hamilton to 346 at Germany so I suspect it can get up a notch from there but not by a huge margin.



#14 GoldenColt

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 09:57

355



#15 thegamer23

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:20

Just found this
Velocit%C3%A0-massime-gara-Monza-1983-20
 


Edited by thegamer23, 31 August 2014 - 10:20.


#16 demet06

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 17:17

It will be fun this year, although I am scared that Maldonado will be doing those speeds with other cars present.

 

Don't worry, I'm sure he won't be doing it for too long!



#17 Diablobb81

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 18:20

Sadly the teams predict only 355.

http://m.auto-motor-...us-8576086.html

Not that much to gain in speed (compared to other tracks)since in was a high speed/low wing track anyway.

#18 George Costanza

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 18:26

220 MPH IMO.

 

I think if the 2004-2005 regulations stayed, we'd be hittng 250 MPH down the striaght.


Edited by George Costanza, 31 August 2014 - 18:27.


#19 Goron3

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 19:36

Lewis hit 349kph at Germany whilst overtaking...given that this is a low downforce track and would not be surprised if we see 365kph, at least in qualifying.



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#20 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 21:17

I think its far more important how quickly they reach terminal velocity than top speed. This is the Merc engine's strength; that massive low down torque and driveability means it is a very very good engine.

#21 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:42

All these ultimate prototype race cars and bikes. Slower than a 2 tonne Bugatti road car @ 406kmh. ! Yes it has a bigger engine but weighs 4 times as much and pushes a LOT more air. And has airconditioning! Though possibly not switched on for 406kmh.



#22 HoldenRT

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:45

Oops rushed reading the poll and voted the wrong option.

 

Somewhere around 350-360 for certain cars.  Possibly more with light fuel load and or slipstream.  If the gear rations will allow it.  It'd be better if gear ratios weren't locked.  It'd be silly to have gear ratios up to 380 for example when there would only be one circuit on the calender where they can reach it.  It'd be hurting them on all other circuits.

 

Will be interesting to see for sure.



#23 HoldenRT

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:46

I don't think the are going to be that quick. The low downforce and good acceleration has given them massively higher speeds than in the V8 era around most tracks. But they have always raced with low downforce here by choice, so there probably won't be much of a drag advantage here compared to years past. In outright power these things have a bit more than the V8's, but they have nowhere near as much power as the V10's. For that reason I can't imagine them getting close to the top speed of the V10's near the end of their time. Probably speeds similar to the late 90's (high 350's or maybe even low 360's)

 

But the aero efficiency is 10 years more advanced since V10s.  Can't imagine V10's with modern aero, but it'd be something.
 



#24 Lemans

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 00:47

All these ultimate prototype race cars and bikes. Slower than a 2 tonne Bugatti road car @ 406kmh. ! Yes it has a bigger engine but weighs 4 times as much and pushes a LOT more air. And has airconditioning! Though possibly not switched on for 406kmh.

 

An F1 car has far more drag.



#25 Jazza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:06

But the aero efficiency is 10 years more advanced since V10s. Can't imagine V10's with modern aero, but it'd be something.


Yes, but back then they massively reduced drag for this track compared to other circuits. These cars don't have much they can trim off them. Compared to ten years ago these things are running low downforce everywhere. That's why they are getting such high speeds on most tracks.

Less grip, less power, more weight than ten years ago. Tens years in aero advances won't make up for disadvantages like that. Not when they have the same frontal area and are both running with wings trimmed as much as possible on this track.

#26 Jazza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:14

All these ultimate prototype race cars and bikes. Slower than a 2 tonne Bugatti road car @ 406kmh. ! Yes it has a bigger engine but weighs 4 times as much and pushes a LOT more air. And has airconditioning! Though possibly not switched on for 406kmh.


And how fast can it go down the straight at monza and still be able to slow down for the next corner?

You cannot compare top speed on a high speed run to that reached on a circuit. That massive weight will kill its acceleration on a race track, but on a high speed run the weight becomes mostly irrelevant as it has all the time it needs to build up to top speed.

It also has a lot less drag than a F1 car...

#27 George Costanza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 01:53

All these ultimate prototype race cars and bikes. Slower than a 2 tonne Bugatti road car @ 406kmh. ! Yes it has a bigger engine but weighs 4 times as much and pushes a LOT more air. And has airconditioning! Though possibly not switched on for 406kmh.

If F1 wanted to run with no drag, they can probably go 400 MPH.... easy.

 

1400 Honda Turbo in a 2004 BAR would do that easy.


Edited by George Costanza, 01 September 2014 - 01:55.


#28 Jazza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:37

If F1 wanted to run with no drag, they can probably go 400 MPH.... easy.

1400 Honda Turbo in a 2004 BAR would do that easy.


MPH or KPH? You would need at least twice that power to go anywhere near 400MPH. The resistance at that speed is insane.

#29 pingu666

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:00

having somewhere to run to get upto that speed is difficult.

wouldnt mind if they ran the audi config of monza where they skip the first chicane...

or the pre chicane le mans track



#30 George Costanza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:07

MPH or KPH? You would need at least twice that power to go anywhere near 400MPH. The resistance at that speed is insane.

 

True. But I figure with the ideal aerodynamics would overcome that?



#31 George Costanza

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:09

having somewhere to run to get upto that speed is difficult.

wouldnt mind if they ran the audi config of monza where they skip the first chicane...

or the pre chicane le mans track

 

Yeah I wonder how fast the F1 would go on the Mulsanne Striaght with no chicanes? That is almost 3.5 miles long.



#32 Brother Fox

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 03:24

I read the top speeds from the bottom to the top and was picturing for a moment a passenger train trying to brake for the first chicane.


I reckon it would make it through, those things handle like they're on ....

#33 wrcva

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:15

340 (+/- 2)



#34 OilFour

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:35

Voted <350, IMO the top teams aren't going to change gear ratios for a single race and take those ratios for the remaining races where there are 'stop / go' circuits.

 

That's why i have the feeling the race for Monza will bring the teams closer to each other where the mid / back running teams might gamble with their gear ratios, Force India might have a good shot for victory as they have one of the best PU and have 'nothing to lose' where Mercedes and Williams might. 

 

Heck, maybe Ferrari are in for a surprise. 

 

EDIT: So what will be the highest topspeed? I guess somewhere between 345 - 350.


Edited by OilFour, 01 September 2014 - 05:46.


#35 Gorma

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:48

Voted <350, IMO the top teams aren't going to change gear ratios for a single race and take those ratios for the remaining races where there are 'stop / go' circuits.

That's why i have the feeling the race for Monza will bring the teams closer to each other where the mid / back running teams might gamble with their gear ratios, Force India might have a good shot for victory as they have one of the best PU and have 'nothing to lose' where Mercedes and Williams might.

Heck, maybe Ferrari are in for a surprise.

EDIT: So what will be the highest topspeed? I guess somewhere between 330 - 335.


According to an analysis posted during the offseason all of the cars are geared beyond 360.

#36 warp

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:00

Yeah I wonder how fast the F1 would go on the Mulsanne Striaght with no chicanes? That is almost 3.5 miles long.

 

I remember that at Hockenheimring (the old, really tasty one) the concern was not fusing the engine for going over more than 15sec a lap at FULL throttle/power.

 

I am anxiously waiting to see what teams have for Monza!



#37 chdphd

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 06:04

Speed record attempt

BAR tested a modified BAR-Honda 007 car which they intended to use in an attempt to set the land speed record for a car meeting FIA Formula One regulations. The team aimed for 400 km/h (249 mph), and were planning to attempt the record at Bonneville Salt Flats.[8] The driver for this project was Alan van der Merwe. The modified chassis performed a shakedown test on the 10,000-foot (3.0 km) long runway at Mojave Airport in California, on 5 November 2005, under the supervision of safety co-ordinator executive, Jamie Hardwick. The four published times recorded in this test were 393 km/h (244 mph), 405 km/h (252 mph), 410 km/h (255 mph) and 413 km/h (257 mph). However, these tests did not constitute the record attempt itself and waterlogging of the salt flats resulted in the attempt being postponed. The chassis was used by BAR's successor, Honda, to set a new record the following year.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia...._record_attempt



#38 OilFour

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:02

According to an analysis posted during the offseason all of the cars are geared beyond 360.

Missed that one, but seeing the cars hit the rev limiter in Spa ( and other circuits with long straights ) @ 340/345), i cant imagion a low drag setup will at 15/20KMH(+)?

 

Still, it would be awesome to see the cars go beyond 360(+)  :clap:



#39 Ducks

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:33

 

 

 

360-370



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#40 Collombin

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:40

If F1 wanted to run with no drag, they can probably go 400 MPH.... easy.

1400 Honda Turbo in a 2004 BAR would do that easy.


Can you repost that on the Technical Forum for me? It's Monday morning, I could do with a laugh.

#41 Claudiu

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:00

George Costanza, on 01 Sept 2014 - 04:53, said:snapback.png

If F1 wanted to run with no drag, they can probably go 400 MPH.... easy.

1400 Honda Turbo in a 2004 BAR would do that easy.

 

This is way to much, probably a modern F1 car with long gearing and no drag setup could hit 450+, those wheels will always be a major source of drag though probably encasing the wheels into the bodywork would allow 500km/h+ speeds.


Edited by Claudiu, 01 September 2014 - 08:01.


#42 PayasYouRace

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:20

All these ultimate prototype race cars and bikes. Slower than a 2 tonne Bugatti road car @ 406kmh. ! Yes it has a bigger engine but weighs 4 times as much and pushes a LOT more air. And has airconditioning! Though possibly not switched on for 406kmh.

 

And Thrust SCC weighed 10 tonnes and did 1228 km/h.

 

F1 cars are always going to be designed for the circuits they race on, not for big top speed numbers. Even Monza requires some cornering ability.



#43 Clatter

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:22

True. But I figure with the ideal aerodynamics would overcome that?

I doubt it.

 

http://www.autoblog....-at-bonneville/



#44 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:06

#F1 Simulations predict top speeds of 355kph at Monza (without slipstream). 2013: 341,1kph (Gutierrez). AMuS: ams.to/Q0



#45 Sash1

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:28

I doubt many cars are geared for ultimate top speed at one track. With the limits on gear ratio changes..... Maybe that 8th gear in a slipstream might do something or some team gambled on this track only. We will see.



#46 Mart280

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:57

I don't speak or read Italian but the picture of the circuit and the red circle it says "Punto Mas"....is that where Massa gets punted off in lap 1 ?

#47 stewie

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:53

I'd be really interested in their top speeds if this was allowed...

 


Edited by stewie, 01 September 2014 - 10:55.


#48 RedRabbit

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:04

I'd be really interested in their top speeds if this was allowed...

 

/snip

 

Yet another racing series that had beautiful cars that were subsequently ruined by ridiculous aerodynamics. Although, according to James Allen, they produce around 40% more downforce than an F1 car this year. Quite huge!!



#49 RedRabbit

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:06

 

George Costanza, on 01 Sept 2014 - 04:53, said:snapback.png

 

This is way to much, probably a modern F1 car with long gearing and no drag setup could hit 450+, those wheels will always be a major source of drag though probably encasing the wheels into the bodywork would allow 500km/h+ speeds.

 

 

BAR's attempt in 2007 saw heavily modified bodywork, no rear wing and a flat front wing and they "only" managed to crack 400kph. I dont think a current F1 car could get near 500 with just covering the wheels.


Edited by RedRabbit, 01 September 2014 - 11:07.


#50 RedRabbit

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 11:12

Just found this
Velocit%C3%A0-massime-gara-Monza-1983-20
 

 

What changed after 2011 that affected top speed so much?