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Engine penalties for Red Bull?


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#1 LORDBYRON

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 16:43

With engine penalties for red bull pretty much inevitable would the drivers mainly vetel be able to switch seats at toro rosso as the rules seem to be vague they seem to only apply to the team not the driver

 

so if he switch for one race would he avoid a penitently ?

 

My theory being new engine new driver no penitently as the driver has never driven for the team


Edited by iii, 04 September 2014 - 18:51.


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#2 Clatter

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 16:57

Your theory is wrong. A new driver coming in takes over the existing PU allocation, they do not get a new set of PUs for themselves.



#3 NoSanityClause

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:07

Paragraph 28.4.d of the 2014 FIA Regulations:

 

If a driver is replaced at any time during the Championship season his replacement will 
be deemed to be the original driver for the purposes of assessing power unit usage

 

 

So, no.



#4 Jejking

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:30

With engine penalties for red bull pretty much inevitable would the drivers mainly vetel be able to switch seats at toro rosso as the rules seem to be vague they seem to only apply to the team not the driver

 

so if he switch for one race would he avoid a penitently ?

 

My theory being new engine new driver no penitently as the driver has never driven for the tea

Can you PLEASE check your spelling and grammar or something. If it looks like this I'm not going to read it.


Edited by Jejking, 04 September 2014 - 17:30.


#5 HoldenRT

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 17:55

You act like a penalty is a death sentence, like a 2 race ban.

 

You start at the back, but given how a lot of the races have gone this season, you could still have points finish or even a podium if you drive well.  It's not the end of the world to have a penalty like this, it doesn't necessarily have to ruin your weekend, unless you are in the championship fight and trying to win every race.



#6 KTownDevil

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 18:13

 It's not the end of the world to have a penalty like this, it doesn't necessarily have to ruin your weekend

 

It does if you sit in a RedBull which lacks power and top speed. 



#7 HeadFirst

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 18:15

You act like a penalty is a death sentence, like a 2 race ban.

 

You start at the back, but given how a lot of the races have gone this season, you could still have points finish or even a podium if you drive well.  It's not the end of the world to have a penalty like this, it doesn't necessarily have to ruin your weekend, unless you are in the championship fight and trying to win every race.

 

The "Death Penalty" has only been used once (to SMU), but that was a long time ago.



#8 Myrvold

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 18:22

Your theory is wrong. A new driver coming in takes over the existing PU allocation, they do not get a new set of PUs for themselves.

 

 

Paragraph 28.4.d of the 2014 FIA Regulations:

 

 

So, no.

Well, the theory is that Vettel switches with Vergne. Vergne will then take the penalty for Vettel, before they switch to the next race again, thus Vettel not having to serve a penalty, Vergne does that instead.

That would work out, but I think it'll be more of a penalty to drive a TR than a RB.



#9 Nonesuch

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 18:47

This reminds me of Sauber's clever scheme back in 2002, when Massa was given a penalty at Monza to be served 'at the next event'. Sauber swapped him with Frentzen for the United Statesian GP and then brought Massa back for the race in Japan, which was not 'the next event' following the Italian GP and as a result Massa did not have to serve his penalty. This was then changed in regulations to 'the driver's next event'. :p


Edited by Nonesuch, 04 September 2014 - 18:47.


#10 Risil

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 18:55

This reminds me of Sauber's clever scheme back in 2002, when Massa was given a penalty at Monza to be served 'at the next event'. Sauber swapped him with Frentzen for the United Statesian GP and then brought Massa back for the race in Japan, which was not 'the next event' following the Italian GP and as a result Massa did not have to serve his penalty. This was then changed in regulations to 'the driver's next event'. :p

 

But then Massa did serve the penalty? When Grosjean got a ban for the Italian GP in 2012 Lotus swapped D'Ambrosio in as a replacement. Then Grosjean was back at the following race.


Edited by Risil, 04 September 2014 - 18:55.


#11 Fastcake

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:14

But then Massa did serve the penalty? When Grosjean got a ban for the Italian GP in 2012 Lotus swapped D'Ambrosio in as a replacement. Then Grosjean was back at the following race.

 

Massa effectively ended up with a one-race ban instead of a grid drop, so he arguably served an even worse penalty!


Edited by Fastcake, 04 September 2014 - 19:15.


#12 HoldenRT

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:17

It does if you sit in a RedBull which lacks power and top speed. 

 

Ricciardio in Bahrain had penalty from the race before and raced to 4th place, and was only a second off Perez in 3rd for the podium.

 

It's a bad carpenter that blames his tools.
 



#13 Clatter

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:18

This reminds me of Sauber's clever scheme back in 2002, when Massa was given a penalty at Monza to be served 'at the next event'. Sauber swapped him with Frentzen for the United Statesian GP and then brought Massa back for the race in Japan, which was not 'the next event' following the Italian GP and as a result Massa did not have to serve his penalty. This was then changed in regulations to 'the driver's next event'. :p

Massa missed a race instead of taking a 10 place grid drop. doesn't sound clever for the driver. 



#14 bourbon

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 19:23

Ricciardio in Bahrain had penalty from the race before and raced to 4th place, and was only a second off Perez in 3rd for the podium.

 

It's a bad carpenter that blames his tools.
 

 

Seb already did this in Barcelona (15 to 4th).  But the outcome could have been a podium without he penalty.  So it is not the end of the world, but it does not help.



#15 SpartanChas

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 20:00

Starting from 15th in the car he knows inside out is preferable. No idea how he would fare in the STR, which he hasn't driven before. Not worth the trouble.

#16 Nonesuch

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 20:35

But then Massa did serve the penalty?

 

No, he did not. The original wording said that he would have to serve the penalty 'at the next event', but he did not participate in that next race, so he never served the penalty. That's why the regulations were changed.
 

Massa missed a race instead of taking a 10 place grid drop. doesn't sound clever for the driver. 

 

Perhaps not for the driver, but it worked out decently for the team. They brought in Frentzen, who was to drive for them the following year (I'm not sure if that was already established at that point).

 

But anyway, to get back to Vettel; such schemes no longer seem possible. :)

 



#17 scheivlak

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 20:54

 They brought in Frentzen, who was to drive for them the following year (I'm not sure if that was already established at that point).

 

I'm pretty sure it wasn't - so it was quite useful occasion for HHF!



#18 HoldenRT

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 22:12

Seb already did this in Barcelona (15 to 4th).  But the outcome could have been a podium without he penalty.  So it is not the end of the world, but it does not help.

 

It never helps but good things can still happen and that's the way one needs to think.  That race was one of the highlights of the season for him.
 



#19 Thomas99

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 23:16

Seb already did this in Barcelona (15 to 4th). But the outcome could have been a podium without he penalty. So it is not the end of the world, but it does not help.


Not likely, considering Ricciardo was the car ahead of him.

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#20 Nustang70

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 00:35

Can you PLEASE check your spelling and grammar or something. If it looks like this I'm not going to read it.

 

Go easy, pal.  I don't want to tell you when and how to throw stones, but I will point out that your first sentence should end with a question mark, and your second sentence is missing a comma.    ;)