65 replies to this topic

[Dick Willis]

Dick, I know my memory is not that flash, but I would remember a car with a supercharged Zephyr engine...not this Greg Mackie. 

 

Sorry Greg, got my Mackies mixed up, correct that to David Mackie.

 

The Maybach (s) are generally recognised by those who know as the best ever Australian special, and the only one to win a Grand Prix outside Australia.

[Ray Bell]

Not sports cars when they did that...

That reminds me to question whether or not the Tornado, which John McDonald built into a sports car in 1961 or so, might fill this bill?

[Lee Nicolle]

Sorry Greg, got my Mackies mixed up, correct that to David Mackie.

 

The Maybach (s) are generally recognised by those who know as the best ever Australian special, and the only one to win a Grand Prix outside Australia.

The Maybachs however were not really a Sports Car.

I did not know that Dave Mackie owned the Milano. Clubmans and now a late Porsche yes.

[Ray Bell]

The original Maybach was a sports car...

There were three versions of the Maybach. Or was it four?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
I believe the car was Australian built. How much Lotus was left would be the question.
While it is an English car this just another problem with the thread. An Oz built and raced version of an English car.
Virtually none of the cars mentioned so far have been mostly Australian, but are Australian built. Imported engines and running gear. Some built based on English or other chassis.....

Lee, this is how the Hopwood Elan was when Peter was racing it:

Chassis: Original chassis had bits from another grafted on to repair.

Suspension: Original with replacement shocks at the front and Koni externally adjustable strut inserts from a Mk 2 Cortina at the rear. Springs may have been locally sourced.

Brakes: To my knowledge these were as original.

Engine: Original Ford-Lotus twin cam locally modified.

Transmission: Original Lotus lightweight housings for Ford running gear.

Driveshafts: Original roller-spline as supplied by Lotus.

Body: Some original, much repaired, some local copy stuff. Plus, in the final stages, locally-made spoilers etc.

The thing is, as the title of this thread is 'Australian built' the car is just a repaired and modified Pommy vehicle.

[Dale Harvey]

I will go with Wirra and say GT2 Milano.

Dale.

[Ray Bell]

Russell Lamborn agreed too...

But I'd like to know about the Tornado. I wonder if there's pics of it somewhere?

And I wonder if we really should include this one:



It was built in Australia, much of the work being done by Properts' bodyworks at Camperdown. The order to build the car came from Augustus McIntyre, the proprietor of several cinemas, which were good business in the depression. It was, therefore, built with a very good budget.

All mechanical components were from a Hudson, the 8-cylinder engine backed up by the standard gearbox and rear end. As the original intention was to compete in the Trans-Africa road race scheduled for 1936, the use of standard components was considered important. But there was also provision for a spare short motor to be chained across the chassis behind the seats in the luggage area.

The car did race, driven by Frank Kleinig and Kevin Salmon. As photographed it was as lovingly restored by Clive Gibson, who helped tend it in its early years.

I do think it has a fair claim to the title of the thread...




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Edited by Ray Bell, 15 July 2015 - 10:04.

[Lee Nicolle]

I have mentioned this before, the best and most Australian Sports Car that has been built would be the Bernie Van Elsen K&A built Bolwell. An Australian car much modified for racing by an Australian builder using an Australian engine and gearbox. Yes Virginia a 351 Cleveland was made in Australia as was the single rail gearbox used.

 

The Holden powered Milanos too were similar but the Bolwell was a deal faster [and more expensive too]

 

As for prototype cars the K&A built Veskanda is undoubtedly the best and fastest. And while a 350 Chev is not a true Aussie engine it was used in Australian made cars. It did hold outright records at most Aussie tracks at one stage.

 

The Bapmobile, The Barry Lock creation too must get a serious mention, as it was too very fast though a Cosworth is defenitly not a Aussie production engine.

 

For their time the big banger Elfins, and the Kaditchas too rate a very high mention. I feel some of the Elfins did use Holden V8s too at one stage? Most ofcourse were Chev.

 

These were all ofcourse proffesionally  built cars and the myriad of home and one off builders will never compete though there has been a lot of very good cars.

 

As for longevity [in one carefull!! owner] and probably race miles the Jim Doig Asp must win! And no it is NOT a clubman, it has doors and at least a1600 engine. The 2T Toyotas while very Japanese were sold in the Australian market in Celicas.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Lee Nicolle
I have mentioned this before, the best and most Australian Sports Car that has been built would be the Bernie Van Elsen K&A built Bolwell. An Australian car much modified for racing by an Australian builder using an Australian engine and gearbox. Yes Virginia a 351 Cleveland was made in Australia as was the single rail gearbox used.....

Lee, can I refer you to the title of the thread?

"What was Australia's best home-built front engine Racing Sports Car?"

While it might be so that Bernie's Bolwell was pretty good (as was Ross Bond's, by the way), and it might have had an Australian-built engine and gearbox, was it 'home-built'?

You seem to keep missing the point that this is what the thread is about, Specials. Not modified factory cars, as the Bolwell was, nor series-produced or specialist-manufacturer built cars from Australian makers.
 

.....The Holden powered Milanos too were similar but the Bolwell was a deal faster [and more expensive too].....

There've been a few people mention the Milano GT IIs, myself included. I think 'home-built' applies to them in a limited way. The Sam Johnson-Bruce Leer duo built the first two for themselves and later turned out one or two more. But almost backyard-built and certainly they relied on a heap of production parts in their make-up as you would with a Special.
 

.....As for prototype cars the K&A built Veskanda is undoubtedly the best and fastest. And while a 350 Chev is not a true Aussie engine it was used in Australian made cars. It did hold outright records at most Aussie tracks at one stage.
 
The Bapmobile, The Barry Lock creation too must get a serious mention, as it was too very fast though a Cosworth is defenitly not a Aussie production engine.
 
For their time the big banger Elfins, and the Kaditchas too rate a very high mention. I feel some of the Elfins did use Holden V8s too at one stage? Most of course were Chev.....

Here you go right off on another tangent...

Remember the title to the thread? It included the words, "front engine". Not 'Australian engine'. I'm quite sure that Daniel never intended to say the cars had to have Australian-built engines, all he was looking at was whether the cars were built by someone in Australia.
 

.....These were all of course professionally  built cars and the myriad of home and one off builders will never compete though there has been a lot of very good cars.....

Now you have recognised that it's about 'home-built'... so why have you gone on and on about cars that weren't?
 

.....As for longevity [in one careful! owner] and probably race miles the Jim Doig Asp must win! And no it is NOT a clubman, it has doors and at least a 1600 engine. The 2T Toyotas while very Japanese were sold in the Australian market in Celicas.

I give you that... not since Steve Tillett's TC and Geoff Russell's Morris Special has a car had the same owner race it for so long...

But it is a Clubman, essentially. It was basically designed to Clubman rules which were 'extended' back in the day to allow bigger engines to be run if doors were fitted.

[ken devine]

The original Maybach was a sports car...

There were three versions of the Maybach. Or was it four?

This is a question i always ask Ray. When the car received the Corvette engine i saw it reffered to as Maybach 4.The present owner wont accept that he still refers to it as Maybach 3. even after it was completley rebuilt after it crashed at Phillip Island several years ago.

[Ray Bell]

Ken, I wouldn't go to extremes over the fitting of a different engine...

But the car originally had a very square radiator grille and was a 2-seater, it was probably road-registered, when Charlie Dean first dragged it out.

I don't know how much alteration there was to the car, but it certainly was no longer a sports car when it went to NZ for the '54 NZGP. What I can readily glean from the AGP book is that by 1950 it had a much more modern body and there was no longer any thought of road equipment, even if it still got an occasional blast on the road.

The specification by that time included Studebaker IFS and the engine was supercharged, but in 1952 the supercharger came off and stayed off. It was in this form that it won the NZGP.

The car recognised as Maybach 2, even though you could well say that Maybach 1 had two different forms, was a single-seater built during 1954 and was destroyed at the end-of-year Southport AGP when the welds in the chassis gave way.

The reconstruction as Maybach 3 featured the Mercedes-Benz W196-style bodywork and the engine canted to one side. By 1958 it had a Chev engine in place of the Maybach 6.

Not only had the engine been changed, but the front suspension as well, while a de Dion rear end was fitted as Ern Seeliger went through the car.

Do you refer to this as Maybach 4? It certainly was different... I don't know.

Edited to add in: I now notice that the breakout in the AGP book does refer to it as Maybach Four.


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Edited by Ray Bell, 16 July 2015 - 02:04.

[DanTra2858]

Thanks Ray for bringing this Thread back on track.

[DanTra2858]

For me the nicest & very competive car has to be the Red Prad Holden, did this car start life as the Yellow Prad Alta sports car.

[Ray Bell]

It did start life as the Prad Alta, but I can't say what colour it might have been...



It is a very nice car, there's no doubt about it.

[DanTra2858]

The Prad Alta was yellow with a black central stripe, if I remember it also had no headlights.

Edited by DanTra2858, 16 July 2015 - 19:51.

[Lee Nicolle]

Lee, can I refer you to the title of the thread?

"What was Australia's best home-built front engine Racing Sports Car?"

While it might be so that Bernie's Bolwell was pretty good (as was Ross Bond's, by the way), and it might have had an Australian-built engine and gearbox, was it 'home-built'?

You seem to keep missing the point that this is what the thread is about, Specials. Not modified factory cars, as the Bolwell was, nor series-produced or specialist-manufacturer built cars from Australian makers.
 

There've been a few people mention the Milano GT IIs, myself included. I think 'home-built' applies to them in a limited way. The Sam Johnson-Bruce Leer duo built the first two for themselves and later turned out one or two more. But almost backyard-built and certainly they relied on a heap of production parts in their make-up as you would with a Special.
 

Here you go right off on another tangent...

Remember the title to the thread? It included the words, "front engine". Not 'Australian engine'. I'm quite sure that Daniel never intended to say the cars had to have Australian-built engines, all he was looking at was whether the cars were built by someone in Australia.
 

Now you have recognised that it's about 'home-built'... so why have you gone on and on about cars that weren't?
 

I give you that... not since Steve Tillett's TC and Geoff Russell's Morris Special has a car had the same owner race it for so long...

But it is a Clubman, essentially. It was basically designed to Clubman rules which were 'extended' back in the day to allow bigger engines to be run if doors were fitted.

Bernies Bolwell was a monocoque racing car with a Bolwell body. Not a modified road car like I believe the others were. Australian car, Australian engine and gearbox and the monocoque was built in Australia. Is that enough?

 

Doigs car is similar to a clubman,, as have been dozens of other specials but never has been a clubman. It has always raced as a Sports Car,, a front engines Australian built one.

 

Virtually none of the cars mentioned here could be construed home built. Most were built by mechanics, engineeers etc in their workshops. Or by body builders. The Milanos were pro built at least in part.

 

For the most part the skills required preclude home builders. Home based assemblers of someones major work though is very common. Pro built chassis and usually panels assembled by someone at home and adapted to their mechanicals is fairly common

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As for the 'Kanda and Bap mobile I was far from the only one mentioning it.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 17 July 2015 - 08:54.