740 replies to this topic

[Seanspeed]

He didn't choke, he made mistakes through being overly careful.

Haha, ok man.

[boost]

Great race! .. thought it was all over when nico took off with a train behind him.

Dan and Bottas despite a poor start where great.

[bauss]

He didn't choke, he made mistakes through being overly careful. Rosberg is thinking of the big picture, not something Hamilton, or his fans are capable of.

 

hahahaha.... the spin is powerful in this one

[Boxerevo]

Sarcasm is getting out of hand,you must sense a limit to it or you can pass like a full ******.

[tmzxaar]

you stole my avatar!

[f1rules]

im sorry but nico dont look broken at all, the danish journalists even noticed, and that was a great spot, that he started to talk to massa in italian, before entering the podium, knowing he would leave hamilton out of the conversation, he is a snake and i love it, i REALLY hope he beats hamilton, also to make a point in the team! 

[Jardins]

That podium ceremony was out of control. I don't think one driver answered the question posed by Alesi (not that I could tell given some of it was in Italian). FIA is going to have to rethink that approach but it does allow the drivers to speak directly to the fan and from that perspective it was great that the drivers spoke in Italian.

I can't be the only one who wondered if missing the chicane was part of Rosberg's punishment for the last race. For those who think a team would never do that - didn't we think a team would never deliberately crash a car before Renault and Singapore?

The atmosphere in that room before the podium was extremely tense. I don't see how these two can continue to work together. Over all though a very interesting race. I think Button's lost it as he couldn't make his pass on Perez stick.

[Andy35]

SUMMARY

 

Everyone's a winner apart from Ferrari.

 

Very good race.

 

Ferrari need to get things in check before there are accusations even Luca is deserting the sinking ship.

 

Andy 

[OilFour]

NOOO!

 

I can't get my head around this ... No, i'm not a Ferrari fan, No, i'm not a Alonso fan ( far from, and both tbh ). But my am i feeling sad for both after a poor performance and a DNF for Alonso infront of their own crowd.

 

Seriously hoping for Ferrari and Alonso ( and fans ) that they can get this turt to run infront in 2015, i don't like seeing Alonso's talent wasted another year.

[Spillage]

Y'know, in hindsight Rosberg should've run down the grass rather than negotiating the polystyrene slalom. He'd probably have kept the lead and I suspect the stewards might have been reluctant to intervene. If they did they most likely would have told him to give back the position, so he didn't have much to lose. On such moments are championships won and lost...

[Nigol]

Y'know, in hindsight Rosberg should've run down the grass rather than negotiating the polystyrene slalom. He'd probably have kept the lead and I suspect the stewards might have been reluctant to intervene. If they did they most likely would have told him to give back the position, so he didn't have much to lose. On such moments are championships won and lost...

 

Pretty sure they MUST take the chicane, everything else is cutting the track and gaining a advantage. (No, don't use Kvyat as an argument please   )

[Fastcake]

Pretty sure they MUST take the chicane, everything else is cutting the track and gaining a advantage. (No, don't use Kvyat as an argument please   )

 

Yes I believe I have heard that before. I imagine that is something mentioned in the driver briefing.

[Spillage]

Pretty sure they MUST take the chicane, everything else is cutting the track and gaining a advantage. (No, don't use Kvyat as an argument please   )

 

Yes I believe I have heard that before. I imagine that is something mentioned in the driver briefing.

If that's the case then scratch what I said. If not, then the point stands. Rosberg can't match Hamilton for pace. He has to maximise everything he can to take the title, including the rules.

[BigBadBless]

I feel a little sorry for those who think that Rosberg deliberately cut the chicane twice (once when it was Massa behind him), as they clearly suffer from learning difficulties. Nonetheless, a good race with a just result!

[Ricardo F1]

if lewis hadnt of ignored team orders,he wouldnt have won the race.it was a strange instruction,telling him to stay 2.5 seconds behind.

I don't actually think that was an order, it was information.

[HoldenRT]

Choking would have been crashing.. Nico didn't choke IMO, but he also wasn't very assertive and seems soley focussed on bagging points, which is natural I guess.  This has been a trend ever since Canada or even earlier, so it's no surprise.  That's what made Spa so weird or out of character, because for that moment (and also later in the race), he seemed the opposite.  Even in Hungary the race before, he was pretty conservative behind Vergne.  Where as Lewis was super aggressive and swooped by.  A part of that is because of the points situation, but another part of that is maybe just their character.  Lewis needs to drive like this, Nico doesn't.  But Nico better watch out.. either way, it will be a high pressure situation for both drivers.  Their driving kind of reflects their personalities.. Nico is calm and calculated and Lewis is over emotional and over aggressive.  For pretty much the whole season Lewis has been quicker.  It's a good combo to watch in a battle together.

 

But to get back to the point, it's easy to drive like Ric, when you are chasing and nothing to lose.  Harder when you are in Lewis' position, but even harder when in Nico's position.

 

Lewis drove well today though.  Very well, and if he keeps driving like that every race until the end, it will be very interesting.

 

That post race crowd of people was absolutely crazy.  It was like a rock concert.  Imagine if it was like that every race weekend.

[HoldenRT]

I don't actually think that was an order, it was information.

 

Lewis said after the race that they are like "suggestions" and he likes them because he needs as much info as possible, because they can see things that he can't.  But sometimes he follows them, and sometimes he doesn't.  They aren't orders.  They are ideas based on information they have.. like you said.

[Boxerevo]

Y'know, in hindsight Rosberg should've run down the grass rather than negotiating the polystyrene slalom. He'd probably have kept the lead and I suspect the stewards might have been reluctant to intervene. If they did they most likely would have told him to give back the position, so he didn't have much to lose. On such moments are championships won and lost...

You really think he didn't got this idea before anyone of us ?

 

But i am sure nobody is allowed to do this trick there...

 

Rosberg being naive... that would be new to me.

[anti]

Race: :: Pit :: Best lap :: Lap Chart :: History graph

[OilFour]

He didn't choke, he made mistakes through being overly careful. Rosberg is thinking of the big picture, not something Hamilton, or his fans are capable of.

Okay, i'm a Hamilton fan ... And this feels personal.

 

What big picture are you talking about? Please take the time to explain because talking about big pictures always comes over as superificial, lacking in depth knowledge 

[royalblue0]

Hi Sith!! (BBC)

I thought that was him behind Daniel Ricciardo

[amp88]

Hello jumping dude. Have a look at start video again. The tire moves AFTER lights go off.

 

Nope. It was pretty clear even from the normal speed onboard start replay that the car was rolling before the lights went out. In a slow motion GIF it's even plainer to see:

 

[peroa]

Nope. It was pretty clear even from the normal speed onboard start replay that the car was rolling before the lights went out. In a slow motion GIF it's even plainer to see:

 

Well, it probably didn't roll enough for it to be a problem for Charlie.

[Ducks]

Pretty simple, the sensor wouldn't have been triggered.

[milestone 11]

Pretty sure they MUST take the chicane, everything else is cutting the track and gaining a advantage. (No, don't use Kvyat as an argument please   )

Nobody told Lukas at 30.10

[pRy]

Nope. It was pretty clear even from the normal speed onboard start replay that the car was rolling before the lights went out. In a slow motion GIF it's even plainer to see:

 

Yeah if you look at the inside Pirelli text it starts to move on red. I wonder if that contributed to his bad start. Perhaps he reacted to the movement and screwed up his launch sequence somehow.

[amp88]

The rolling does certainly open up discussion on how much tolerance there is in the jump start detection system. However, Hamilton's car did move a noticable amount before the lights went out - I don't think anyone can argue that. I'm not suggesting there's a conspiracy at the FIA to try and help Hamilton (by ignoring a jump start), but it would be nice to know exactly what the rules are in terms of detection method and precision and what tolerance there is.

[maverick69]

They're all allowed a bit of "judder" through clutch engagement etc. Any "clean" rotation is normally deemed as a jumped start.

 

I'd say that Hamilton was right on the limit there initially...... and the fact that his actual start was abysmal probably saved his bacon TBH........

Edited by maverick69, 08 September 2014 - 15:19.

[peroa]

Yeah if you look at the inside Pirelli text it starts to move on red. I wonder if that contributed to his bad start. Perhaps he reacted to the movement and screwed up his launch sequence somehow.

Emm, he did the start manually because the start mode didn't work, so he probably looked for the clutch bite point and that's why the car started creeping forward a bit.

[Fastcake]

He couldn't of moved more than a centimetre before the lights went out. That's got to be within the margin of tolerance.

[amp88]

They're all allowed a bit of "judder" through clutch engagement etc. Any "clean" rotation is normally deemed as a jumped start.

 

I'd say that Hamilton was right on the limit there initially...... and the fact that his actual start was abysmal probably saved his bacon TBH........

 

Once he started moving he continued to move. That is to say, he didn't jump forward with the engagement, then stop, then start properly. I'm reluctant to accept the 'he got a bad start anyway, so he doesn't deserve a penalty' line of defence (not that I'm suggesting that's what you're saying, but it is floating around out there). IMO if you break the rules (even if you don't gain an advantage) you should be held accountable.

 

He couldn't of moved more than a centimetre before the lights went out. That's got to be within the margin of tolerance.

 

Well, judging by the rotation of the Pirelli logo on the inside sidewall of the right tyre it looks like significantly more than a centimetre to me. It would be nice to get a statement about it from the FIA (including how much he actually did move and what the tolerance is), but I seriously doubt that would come, unless there was a lot of pressure applied.

 

Additionally, the notion of there being a tolerance for a jump start is a bit of a strange one. There isn't a tolerance for pit-lane speeding, for instance, is there? If you're over the limit you get done, AFAIK.

 

edit: There's also the question of whether or not F1 applies a 'minimum reaction time' to the jump start detection system (as is used in various other sports, such as athletics). The idea being that the fastest reaction time is x milliseconds, and if you move after the start signal but before x milliseconds has elapsed after that you're still adjudged to have jumped the start, because you couldn't physically have reacted in that time. From what I understand F1 doesn't have this additional reaction time demand, but perhaps it should.

Edited by amp88, 08 September 2014 - 16:31.

[OilFour]

Nope. It was pretty clear even from the normal speed onboard start replay that the car was rolling before the lights went out. In a slow motion GIF it's even plainer to see:

 

Wauw, just wauw ...

 

People actually putting time in this, i think there is a difference between a jump start and a jump start ... This isnt a 'jump' start.

[paulogman]

Clutching at straws

[Myrvold]

Indeed. It seemingly didn't ping any sensors, so it's all good.

[otbevo]

There's also the question of whether or not F1 applies a 'minimum reaction time' to the jump start detection system (as is used in various other sports, such as athletics). The idea being that the fastest reaction time is x milliseconds, and if you move after the start signal but before x milliseconds has elapsed after that you're still adjudged to have jumped the start, because you couldn't physically have reacted in that time. From what I understand F1 doesn't have this additional reaction time demand, but perhaps it should.

 

His reaction time was calculated actually... 0.0 reaction time.  He essentially got very lucky that the lights went out when they did 

 

"Hamilton was close to a false start at Monza. Reaction time was 0,0s. It means: Hamilton was lucky the lights went out when he went off." - Tobias Grüner F1 (@tgruener) 

Edited by otbevo, 08 September 2014 - 19:30.

[scheivlak]

 

His reaction time was calculated actually... 0.0 reaction time.  He essentially got very lucky that the lights went out when they did 

 

"Hamilton was close to a false start at Monza. Reaction time was 0,0s. It means: Hamilton was lucky the lights went out when he went off." - Tobias Grüner F1 (@tgruener) 

 

In athletics (and I guess in most sports) any movement within 0.10 seconds is considered as a false start as the human reaction time is never faster than 0.10 seconds.

 

A reaction time of 0.0 seconds should of course be a false start anyhow in any sport.

Edited by scheivlak, 08 September 2014 - 22:29.

[paulogman]

In f1 if you trip the sensors at your starting position that's considered a false start.
Only one set of rules governs the sport.
Keep clutching at those straws

[amp88]

In f1 if you trip the sensors at your starting position that's considered a false start.
Only one set of rules governs the sport.
Keep clutching at those straws

 

Absolutely! Hence leaving the track and gaining an advantage always being penalised. Oh, wait a minute...

[bub]

In f1 if you trip the sensors at your starting position that's considered a false start.
Only one set of rules governs the sport.
Keep clutching at those straws

 

True. Just like in athletics, sometimes you see a twitch on camera but if the sensors don't register it, you get away with it. Like the flexing wings in F1, you could see them flexing but they passed the test.

[Ellios]

Is that former Autosport forum poster and serial Grand Prix attender The Sith lurking in the background ??

 

[OO7]

In athletics (and I guess in most sports) any movement within 0.10 seconds is considered as a false start as the human reaction time is never faster than 0.10 seconds.

 

A reaction time of 0.0 seconds should of course be a false start anyhow in any sport.

BS.  It's perfectly acceptable when the athlete is clairvoyant.