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How is the new formula going?


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#1 gruntguru

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 00:12

The majority of members started this year very skeptical of the new rules. Anyone changed their mind yet?

 

 - OK the engine sound is not as spectacular as the screaming V8's (let alone V10's).

 - The power is starting to look respectable (362 km/hr at Monza)

 - Overtaking is better than we have seen in years.

 - MB's technical superiority dominates the front of the field, but otherwise driver skill is getting a better showing this year.

 

Overall, I think the racing has improved.



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#2 Giz

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:10

I agree I have loved F1 this year, The sound doesn't bother me at all and I can't remember when we had this many good races

#3 Gyno

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:18

:down:



#4 GreenMachine

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:31

As far as I am concerned, it is great! :clap:

I love the technical complexity of the power units, the racing has been first class (ok, there is one dominant team, but what is new there?), and the drivers are clearly having to master the machine before it masters them. What is not to like?

I see we have 68 pages of whingers complaining about the noise (or lack thereof), seems some people can't imagine that there is more to motor racing than cubic decibels :rolleyes:



#5 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:31

Overall, I think the racing has improved.

I suppose.

 

The cars are darn slow and the notion of a performance hybrid is irrelevant to your average motoring enthuasist (those without a Jay Leno-sized cheque book to add each of the new hybrid hypercars to their collection).  

 

Your average motoring enthuasist is still rocking their non-Euro compliant heavily turbocharged Nissan or Mitsubishi.  So meh.  :|   :confused:



#6 Jackmancer

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:33

I love it - the racing has been fantastic this year, much credit to Mercedes though, for letting both race.



#7 Sash1

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:45

 

 - Overtaking is better than we have seen in years.

 

 

DRS... 

 

I sais in another discussion already; Overtaking on the Monza straight used to be spectacular. Even if it happened just 2 or 3 times in a race it was exciting. Trying to stay close through the Varianti Ascari, creeping closer on the backstraight, hanging on for dear live in the Parabolica and then slipstream all the way down the main straight, try to get alongside and outbrake the other guy (or not if the other guy manages to get back on the brakes. Now we get 20 overtaking actions on that same straight where people just open DRS and blast past. There is more overtaking, but it is not better. The whole DRS principle is irritating me more and more. You just know that on average, the one in front is a sitting duck and can do nothing.

 

The noise, it doesn't help but it isn't cool either.

 

The cars look like crap. Not that they should go back to the past, but there is nothing that impresses on them either.

 

And when you hear a guy like Lotterer tell that his Audi has 40% or so more downforce in the corners on tires that do not get destroyed for entertainments sake, while teenagers move up because they have enough body strength to handle the car... Then where is the factor that makes F1 stand out? They are slightly faster than other classes, easier to drive apparently..... 

 

I will keep watching this year, but there is nothing that I can excite other people with to come watch too. 



#8 Brandz07

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:01

Depends which team/driver you support...  :cool:



#9 Jamiednm

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:08

It's been brilliant so far. We're actually seeing exciting races from start to finish. Give me that over v8/v10 processions any day of the week.

 

The cars aren't slow, they're still faster than any other circuit cars in the world and will only get faster considering we're in the early stages of a brand new formula - a lot of people seem to ignore/forget this fact.



#10 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 08:58

No. I can't get past the looks, sounds and DRS. Tires are less miserable this year. I hate the testing ban and parc ferme. And to add insult to injury, they are even 'tarmaccing' more corners, or should I say 'suggestion lines'.

You just know Mercedes is going to get the title and there is nothing someone can do about it. I really miss the days Ferrari or McLaren had no chance on Saturday, but were miles faster on Sunday due to a good warmup or setup change.

 

In the horrible sound thread there is a roaring V10 on Monza. That is the emotion I'm missing. A car racing on edge (not over it, kitty litter is not nice ;)). But this is a problem creeping on me since 2003 when the started fiddling with the rules to much. It is only coming together this year with all the hybrid nonsense.



#11 Kristian

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:06

I think its great. F1 has great modern/relevant technology, has retained the speed, the cars look a handful to drive, and we've got a great title battle (although it could equually have been really boring if it was a team with a clear no.1 and no.2, so maybe next year will provide a better view of if its better or not). 

 

I'm used to the noise now. I guess that's the way the world is going. 

 

I also like the more lenient stewarding, that's great. 

 

The only downside is the emasculation of the tracks and double points. 



#12 Ducks

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:07

Bottas/Ricciardo have made it amazing.



#13 MikeV1987

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:13

This season has been good overall, although i don't like the Merc dominance after 4 years of the Red Bull show. But I think eventually these regulations will give us some very awesome seasons in the future once the other manufacturers catch up on their power units.


Edited by MikeV1987, 08 September 2014 - 09:16.


#14 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:33

As expected, really. The regulations have locked in the running order to a large degree, a terrible mistake in the first years of such a different formula. That has made the WCC a foregone conclusion, and the WDC only of interest to a small number of people who identify with either of the drivers involved.

 

The sound of the new engines is underwhelming, even if the technical achievement is quite extraordinary. The cars are definitely slower over a lap, but the top speeds are still respectable. The significantly lower fuel-usage is nice,  though the seeming ease with which the cars stay within these limits suggests the maximum amount of fuel could have been even lower.

 

Unfortunately, the DRS-gimmick has postponed or even killed off similar fundamental changes to how the regulations handled aerodynamics. That has meant the problems of five and ten years ago still exist today, masked only by the terrible 'breeze past' that has made overtaking all but inevitable. It is in many ways the worst of both worlds, and DRS is in my opinion a bigger problem for F1 than the tarmac run-offs and sound combined.

 

The cars still look goofy, with their massive front-wings (though it is somewhat better than in the initial 2009 regulations), very tight rears, and narrow high rear-wings. The idiotic noses are still hilarious, though at least the best car has the most tolerable one.

 

Some of the racing has been good, and not surprisingly the best has taken place outside the DRS zones. Some of the drivers have really stood out; Ricciardo over Vettel, and Alonso over Räikkönen being the most striking, if not entirely surprising.

 

All in all, it's still good fun every two weeks, but it's definitely not all it could be.



#15 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:34

The only good technical thing I see this year is that the tyres seem less crap and drivers can push more often.

Other than that....bad sound, bad looks, strange brake behaviour and drivers saying the cars are easy to drive



#16 A.Fant

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:44

Bottas/Ricciardo have made it amazing.

They really have. Not only are they outpacing their more experienced teammates, but they have made countless overtakes and I can't recall one instance where there has been contact.



#17 rhukkas

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:56

Lower TV figures

One car dominance

Rubbish sound

Teams can't make payments on massively expensive engines so are being propped up.

 

I's say it's going REALLY well, wouldn't you?



#18 Tsarwash

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:00

A really good season. They need to rely on the DRS slightly less, and I'm not in favour of the strict park ferme rules either, but I can't remember a season which has so many good races, and not because of lottery tyres, which happened a few years ago. Monza used to be one of the most boring races on the calendar, but yesterday was great fun with genuine overtaking going on all down the order. And there was some really nice, respectful driving form nearly all the drivers. Lewis on Massa and Daniel on Vettel was lovely to watch.

It's a pity the whole thing is going to collapse into a big mess in a few years. I can see us losing at least four of the current teams in the next three years. Bernie isn't stupid and even he must be a little worried about the warning signs that we can see. 

 

Edit, I'll just add, that I think Max was good at bending Bernie's ear sometimes about the which way the wind was blowing and how he had to make concessions to the financial realities of both the track owners and the lower order teams. Both of them had experience of struggling to make ends meet. 


Edited by Tsarwash, 08 September 2014 - 10:02.


#19 Lazy

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 15:18

Great season so far and I'm a McLaren fan.

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#20 JHSingo

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 16:14

I can say this has been one of my favourite seasons in quite a while, actually. Sure, one team has been very dominant, but the racing has been stunning. I still think that there's only been two 'boring' races (Malaysia and China) - everywhere else the racing has been excellent, or there has been a memorable moment. We've been treated to at least three races classic races (Bahrain, Canada and Hungary) and many other good ones. And it has been great to see the emergence of new stars, such as Ricciardo, Bottas, Magnussen and Kvyat.

 

I'm way past caring about what the cars look like or even sound like. It took me like...one race to get used to it, and then I can safely say I haven't thought about either of those things since. Sure, this new formula may not to be everyone's tastes, but I think the drop in viewing figures in some countries is far down to other issues (many races being on pay-to-view channels, expensive race tickets, etc) than 'boring' racing. And I think these cars will only get quicker. We're in year one of brand new regulations that there is plenty of development to come. It was a positive sign that the lap times were actually quicker at Spa this year than they were last year.

 

In summary, F1's current problems go far beyond what's happening on the track in my opinion.



#21 FNG

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 16:33

Sound absolutely sucks and apart from Mercedes they are damn ugly too. However, the racing is good. Take a look back and watch races from the last 10-12 years and you always had cars running wide on apexes when following another car. I always remember Brundle talking about that in the early 2000's. I really don't see much of that at all this year. The rules do seem to help cars follow each other without losing all their downforce.



#22 F1matt

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 16:51

Defending the sport in pub conversations with non F1 friends is harder than ever this season. So it is far from winning people over. :down:



#23 Disgrace

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 17:22

IndyCar is the only form of motorsport I talk about in a pub. It's too complicated to explain why, despite the vastly improved racing, why F1 actually in an appalling state overall.

 

The subsurface nature of the problems is exemplified by DRS. The engine differential has certainly made it look much less of a problem than it actually is, and as engine performance equalises, it will begin to emerge again as a show-spoiler.



#24 Jon83

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 17:34

There's plenty I don't like but the racing has been pretty good. In fact night and day compared to what we had in 2013, which I thought was a very poor season. 

 

The emergence of drivers like Bottas and Ricciardo as well as the battle at the front and moments like Alonso v Vettel at Silverstone has saved a season which, after the opening 4-5 races, I thought was going to be terrible. 



#25 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 17:36

Racing has been amazing. This is the first year as well. Next year the cars are going to look better, reach even higher top speeds, and who knows, maybe even be a little louder?

#26 BRG

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 18:56

There's plenty I don't like but the racing has been pretty good. In fact night and day compared to what we had in 2013, which I thought was a very poor season. 

 

Agree totally.  Not bothered about the sound at all, don't like the penis noses, love the reduced downforce (can we have even less please?) and the resurgence of Wiliams.  And really enjoying seeing Vettel struggle without his 2secs-a-lap-faster car.  He's not even doing well enough to get booed!



#27 SpartanChas

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 19:24

Button vs Perez was great yesterday. Nothing to do with DRS.

Ricciardos move on Kimi was down to DRS but still awesome and a lot of skill involved.

Ricciardo vs alonso at hockenheim, again great racing, DRS or not.

So tell me again that DRS has killed wheel to wheel racing. There's still plenty about.

The only downside is that when you go to a race, the cars don't sound as good as they used to.

#28 Nonesuch

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 20:39

So tell me again that DRS has killed wheel to wheel racing. There's still plenty about.

 

It hasn't. What it has done, however, is give drivers an alternative option to an unassisted pass that is quicker, safer, easier on the tyres and more convenient as well. DRS has taken away opportunities for more wheel-to-wheel racing, which these guys certainly know how to do; they're not amateurs. What DRS has also done is made it increasingly difficult to have surprising results; if for whatever reason a car ends up in a position it doesn't belong based on pure speed, it is now only a matter of time before it drops down the order as DRS allows the faster cars to breeze by and reassert the normal order (unless worn Pirelli tyres make racing for position effectively impossible).

 

DRS is also problematic for a reason that doesn't primarily involve the sporting side, but the technical: DRS is to a very large degree a spec-component. The F-duct (or J-switch) that we saw in 2010 was a technical innovation by the teams, and controlled by the drivers. The more effective the F-duct the team made, and the earlier the driver was able to use it, the greater the benefit. This was a bit of a goofy system, I'll agree without objection, but it was certainly more interesting than the FIA painting lines on the track and - even after multiple seasons - still getting it wrong, as shown by the high number of DRS passes being completed long before the cars reach the braking zone.

 

Keith Collantine wrote about this at length last year, in this article on his website.


Edited by Nonesuch, 08 September 2014 - 20:42.


#29 Maler

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 20:52

I just posted the ratings from German Free TV.

 

4,06 million (5,64 million last year)
-1,58 million (-28,01%)

 

Overall, we in Germany think F1 is DRS helped eco bullshit now, not even hearable. A fringe sport. And with double points, cheap too.

If I want to see RACING, I watch MotoGP.



#30 HoldenRT

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 21:37

So far, better than expected.  But for me what I feared is not so much what would happen in this first 6 months.

 

It's a new reg change, the drivers and teams need to adjust.  It's spiced things up, it's exciting, it's new and all still have to adjust to things and refine things.

 

What I have always feared in the longrun, is after a few seasons, F1 will be as dull as ever.. once the teams update the cars, work out all of the bugs, the drivers adapt, and everything becomes "easier".

 

We saw between Button and Perez for example, they could run a fine line between locking up and going too deep, vs braking too early.. and there was plenty of room for both good moves and also mistakes.

 

As opposed to the future, when no one will ever make a mistake.  When the car is on rails, and is 'too easy'.. and they never run wide or lock the brakes.  It has come to this point during last season, and these new regs have to potential to become even worse.  Cruising, conserving.. managing.. and then never making mistakes while attacking.  Virtually no risk to overtake, rarely reliability problems etc.  The exact opposite of why you tune into a race weekend or enjoy "racing".

 

So far.. so good.  Better than expected actually.  Even at Monza the other day, many good battles and it's pretty much been like that every race of the season so far.  But it's like that new feeling you get when you see a movie you've never seen before or meet someone new.  You only get that feeling once.  They can't change engine and aero regs every season just to maintain that.. it doesn't work.

 

So every "regulation cycle" it's good at the start, ok in the middle and starts to get bad at the end.  This was the worst part of the last 2 years, not whether or not Redbull or Vettel were winning or not.  The cars simply became too easy to drive.

 

And if you have a sprint formula, that's ok.. because that will just make them push even more.  Everyone has to drive that way or get left behind.  In the cruising/managing/conserving era.. we need it to be hard to drive.  Otherwise it's just a Sunday taxi drive through the mountains.  With occasional bursts of actual racing to remind you that it IS actually a race.



#31 Afterburner

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 22:13

Double points on a whim, appalling sound, DRS, one-dimensional drivers, over-emphasis on reliability, and poor aesthetics make it difficult for me to warm to F1's new era. Each weekend I feel more and more like the racing is being sold to me.

Edited by Afterburner, 08 September 2014 - 22:14.


#32 gruntguru

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 01:41

Lots of interesting comments above. How would you tweak the formula from here?

 

- There is lots of great attacking going on outside of DRS. It would be nice to get rid of DRS or at least turn it down as a first step towards eliminating it completely.

- What do you replace DRS with - even less DF? Reduced DF has increased overtaking opportunities already but it is also the main reason the cars are slower.

- Reduce the race fuel allocation.

- Increase MGUK power limit. (Increase ES capacity, allow front wheel harvesting and (electric) front wheel drive)



#33 CoolBreeze

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 03:28

A few improvements needed..

 

1. Bring back testing. In season testing. To cut costs, test at circuits on Monday mornings after each races. 

 

2. Drop the damn engine freeze. It stagnates the sport, and no development can be made. Fake. 

 

3. The sound. 

 

4. Penis noses. Get rid of it. 

 

5. Be more stable with penalizing drivers. Let them race. This is F1, not karts. Stop meddling and adding unnecessary seconds into the final results.

 

6. Get rid of the back marker teams. They used to be stepping stones for future stars. Now they just allow people with bigger wallet and lesser talent race.  



#34 pingu666

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:03

go watch motogp from a few years ago when they where struggling hard for number of riders, its just sad to watch.

 

I like the fixed gearbox ratio's as pinging on the limiter is basicaly gone (may have happened at monza, but you would gear for monza as your at vmax for the entire year)

i like the hybrid stuff (id like a small IC engine then a do whatever on the hybrid side for some type of racing series)

think the add time to race or pitstop works well

 

dont like the money and sponsor situation, the stupid stupid noses (id consider having a rule that if you turned up with a car that repulsive, it would have the ugly bits sledgehammered off it)

the curious engine dev rules

double points


Edited by pingu666, 09 September 2014 - 04:05.


#35 travbrad

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:21

I like the new formula for the most part.  I just wish they didn't immediately freeze the engines before a single racing lap had ever been completed with them.  The closest team to Mercedes has been Red Bull, but the whole season we've known they have NO chance of catching Mercedes without major improvements to the Renault engine/PU.  Ferrari is in a similar situation to Red Bull, except their chassis/aero isn't as good as RBR/Merc.

 

The tyres aren't made of melted cheese anymore, which was one of the most common complaints in 2013 and 2012.  I'm glad they have restricted things like the EBD too, which only increase the turbulent air behind cars making it even harder to get close enough to overtake.  On the other hand I still think double points is a horrible idea (even if it could give the Hamster a chance at the WDC, counteracting his bad luck).

 

I agree with some of the complaints people have about this formula, but most of those complaints also applied to 2013 (and earlier).  The cars in 2013 didn't look great either.  The sound in 2013 was better, but still nowhere close to the V10 days.  We had DRS both years.  Except this year we've had great racing throughout the field, whereas 2013 was one of the most boring seasons in recent years.


Edited by travbrad, 09 September 2014 - 04:36.


#36 travbrad

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:28

go watch motogp from a few years ago when they where struggling hard for number of riders, its just sad to watch.

 

Now instead we have a bunch of "open class" bikes that have no chance of competing with the big boys on race day.  It's better than having 12 bikes on the grid I suppose, but MotoGP isn't any more competitive than it was a few years ago.



#37 senna400

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 14:07

I don't understand some of these comments, DRS is a joke, it's fake overtaking, the same with the KERS overtake button, these have no place in F1.  The facing is "better" because it's "assisted overtakes".  Take a look at an old Gilles Villenuve race on you tube and you'll kind of get the idea.  Ayrton Senna hated the driver aids of 1993 but he'd cry if he knew what F1 has become now.



#38 scheivlak

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 14:11

I don't understand some of these comments, DRS is a joke, it's fake overtaking, the same with the KERS overtake button, these have no place in F1.  The facing is "better" because it's "assisted overtakes".  Take a look at an old Gilles Villenuve race on you tube and you'll kind of get the idea.  Ayrton Senna hated the driver aids of 1993 but he'd cry if he knew what F1 has become now.

Pssst.... there is no "KERS overtake button" this year.

 

Shows how informed you are, I guess.



#39 ollebompa

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 14:17

Racing is better. Technology is better. Sound I think is good. Then we have double points and other insane new rules coming up, so overall it's far worse. Still no fan of DRS.


Edited by ollebompa, 15 September 2014 - 14:18.


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#40 Zoetrope

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 14:20

Mercedes W05 is a masterpiece of engineering. It might be the most advanced car of all times. Yes, it's not the fastest, but I still love it. That car alone was worth new F1 format.

Racing? It rarely depends on rules. It's all about how many cars are close to being equal, which produces a good race. And we have got this in midfield this year which makes interesting races (and Mercedes once this season was even challenged for the win - Austria)



#41 scolbourne

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 14:30

A few improvements needed..

 

1. Bring back testing. In season testing. To cut costs, test at circuits on Monday mornings after each races. 

 

2. Drop the damn engine freeze. It stagnates the sport, and no development can be made. Fake. 

 

3. The sound. 

 

4. Penis noses. Get rid of it. 

 

5. Be more stable with penalizing drivers. Let them race. This is F1, not karts. Stop meddling and adding unnecessary seconds into the final results.

 

6. Get rid of the back marker teams. They used to be stepping stones for future stars. Now they just allow people with bigger wallet and lesser talent race.  

I agree with point 1 , 2 and 5

 

I think engine freezes are totally against the point of the sport. Testing is probably a cheaper option than the alternative of having to analyse everything to the nth degree.

Back marker teams add another level of interest to the races. As their budgets hopefully improve and their designs mature they will become more competitive. I liked the way races were held in the past with many more teams attempting to  qualify than made the race , but can see that this would be difficult nowadays with the high cost of development and the lack of sponsorship money if you did not make the race.

 

I would like to see the fuel flow increased although they can keep the total fuel limit to encourage efficiency. This would allow more power for overtaking and would make qualifying more exciting. This would also counter the lack of noise and slow speeds that some people complain about.


Edited by scolbourne, 15 September 2014 - 14:31.


#42 SpartanChas

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Posted 16 September 2014 - 21:14

I don't understand some of these comments, DRS is a joke, it's fake overtaking, the same with the KERS overtake button, these have no place in F1.  The facing is "better" because it's "assisted overtakes".  Take a look at an old Gilles Villenuve race on you tube and you'll kind of get the idea.  Ayrton Senna hated the driver aids of 1993 but he'd cry if he knew what F1 has become now.

 

alonso.gif

 

DRS assisted overtaking  :cry:

 

http://gfycat.com/ScaredSpotlessBeetle (Perez and Button at Monza).

 

This is the fourth season of DRS racing and yet often drivers choose to overtake whenever they have a chance, not wait for the DRS zone. 


Edited by SpartanChas, 16 September 2014 - 21:16.