Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 7 votes

McNish assesses Ferrari performance & driver prospects


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 20,502 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 05:37

Ferrari must hold on to Alonso, but could lose Raikkonen

 

http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/29166717

 

...

Fernando Alonso wants to win 'special' third title at Ferrari

And now they are way beyond the point at which even Alonso can hide Ferrari's shortcomings and keep up a title challenge - as he did against the odds in 2012.

They look pretty bad already, even with Alonso carrying Ferrari on his back for the last few years.

...

In some ways, Alonso has probably lengthened the time it took Ferrari to realise how bad they were, by dragging them to fight for world titles and giving them results they did not deserve. But there is no doubt any more.

Over the season so far, Ferrari are 0.2 seconds per kilometre slower than the Mercedes. So on a typical 5km track, Ferrari will be a second off the pace.

...

Fernando Alonso has scored 121 points so far this season, nearly three times more than his team mate Kimi Raikkonen, who only has 41 points.

To qualify seventh and 12th at their home grand prix in Italy last weekend and finish ninth with the only car that got to the end - Kimi Raikkonen's - is clearly not good enough.

...

The timing data from the Italian Grand Prix underlined Ferrari's lack of competitiveness.

They were 3km/h down on top speed at the end of the pit straight relative to Mercedes. They were on average 2km/h down at the speed traps at the end of each sector.

The Ferrari engine's lack of power and driveability is well known, but things looked just as bad on the car front.

The middle sector of the lap is the one with most of the corners - the second chicane and both Lesmos and then the run down to the Ascari chicane. And that was their least competitive sector - they were 0.65secs off the pace.

...

Every area needs to be looked at and I would be questioning Raikkonen's position.

Felipe Massa was ousted last season because he was not measuring up, and Raikkonen is doing no better than him compared to Alonso, who admittedly is about as tough a team-mate as you could have.

...

Alonso's average qualifying position this year is seventh; Raikkonen's is 10th. The only times Raikkonen has finished ahead in a race was in Spa, when Alonso was delayed with a penalty, and Monza, when Alonso retired with an engine problem.

While it's clear Raikkonen has not been happy with the way the car behaves this year and should be given some time to sort himself out, there are some fantastic young drivers emerging who are putting pressure on that situation.

...

But I would also be looking elsewhere, even if that meant having to pay Raikkonen off for a second time, as they did at the end of 2009 to make way for Alonso.

...

 

 


Edited by AustinF1, 14 September 2014 - 08:31.


Advertisement

#2 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 14,150 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 14 September 2014 - 08:23

McNish has every right to his own opinion and that's what this is, a opinion, nothing else as we all know Ferrari will not get rid of Kimi after this season

..and if McNish would actually see what Kimi has recently said, he would know Kimi has never said he will retire after 2015 but only, that he will end his F1 career at Ferrari and that he could still continue few more years, as he said just before monza.


Edited by Fontainebleau, 14 September 2014 - 12:05.


#3 Absulute

Absulute
  • Member

  • 1,049 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:21

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I think he's right about Raikkonnen.  He's long since lost his motivation and should make way for someone who gives a damn.



#4 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:26

Right. Don't sack Felipe Massa after 3 years of failure, but sack Kimi after one season. 

 

The guy had 2 great seasons and now when he's having a bad year, shots get fired. Going by that notion would mean Hamilton should have left F1 after 2011, Massa after 2010, Button after 2012, Perez after 2013. 

 

Logic. Logic everywhere. 


Edited by Cyanide, 14 September 2014 - 09:30.


#5 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,183 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:53

He's right, but I wouldn't do it because of the massive compensation payoff. Letting the contract run out is a more sensible option.



#6 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 6,314 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:57

So, he's only really three places behind Alonso on average in qualifying, and we know qualifying has never been Kimi's strong side. His race pace has never been bad compared to Alonso, so what's all the fuss about? Let's wait for next year, now that Kimi has a bit more influence on the outcome of the car.


Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 14 September 2014 - 10:01.


#7 Kristian

Kristian
  • Member

  • 4,365 posts
  • Joined: June 05

Posted 14 September 2014 - 09:58

Anybody sensible can see that Raikkonen's inability to drive through the Ferrari problems has cost them third in the constructors championship. Fine if Alonso had the same problems, but he hasn't. McNish is just stating the obvious. 

 

I like Kimi, but I'm kind of hoping he retires after this year so we can remember him for his heyday at McLaren and Lotus rather than his more abject days with Ferrari. I don't think he's ever looked comfortable there. 



#8 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,183 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:02

Right. Don't sack Felipe Massa after 3 years of failure, but sack Kimi after one season. 

 

The guy had 2 great seasons and now when he's having a bad year, shots get fired. Going by that notion would mean Hamilton should have left F1 after 2011, Massa after 2010, Button after 2012, Perez after 2013. 

 

Logic. Logic everywhere. 

 

There's several levels of a "bad year". None of the examples you've presented were really all that terrible, all you need to do is look at the points table and realise they were still generally within the same ballpark as their team-mates (unlike Kimi now). I'll grant you Massa at a point was atrocious and doing considerably worse than what Kimi's doing right now (think it was early 2012), and if you ask me he should've been given the boot a lot sooner than he was.

 

Trouble with Kimi is he's not been hired as a #2, he's been hired as a #1b as a fall-back option to Alonso and to put serious pressure on him. Performance vs salary isn't stacking up. His previous history with the team doesn't help neither.

 

But to be fair Ferrari's got far more serious problems at the moment, than who has the 2nd seat. The car and engine are fantastically crap for the expectations and investment.



#9 KirilVarbanov

KirilVarbanov
  • Member

  • 866 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:02

Ferrari should focus on the their biggest issue - people management, culture of fear and in particular, lousy engine. 
Then, they can start to sort out drivers, etc. Kimi isn't going anywhere - he has one more year. Massa stayed a lot more. And again, Kimi isn't Ferrari's biggest issue. 



#10 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,408 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:09

The timing data from the Italian Grand Prix underlined Ferrari's lack of competitiveness.

They were 3km/h down on top speed at the end of the pit straight relative to Mercedes. They were on average 2km/h down at the speed traps at the end of each sector.

The Ferrari engine's lack of power and driveability is well known, but things looked just as bad on the car front.

 



We all know Ferrari is clearly inferior, but it's just hilarious that he is trying to make a freaking 3 km/h difference a viable information about two cars relative performance  :rotfl:



#11 MrMan

MrMan
  • Member

  • 190 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:17

I thought they would, if they had a half-decent car, win the constructors' championship and that one of them, whoever turned out best, would have a good chance of the drivers' title.

 

 

:rotfl: 

 

I'll take whatever McNish is smoking please.



#12 BobbyRicky

BobbyRicky
  • Member

  • 1,513 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:19

I'm no Ferrari fan, but I think he's right about Raikkonnen.  He's long since lost his motivation and should make way for someone who gives a damn.

 

I am a Kimi-fan, and i still think he has been bad this season (hoping that will change soon).

But this "kimi has no motivation and only wants a magnum and coke"-thingy has to stop.

Seriously; if Kimi has lost his motivation, but still manages to win races and whatnot in a lotus, then you should ask yourself how motivated the rest of the grid really are.

 

Being beaten by a guy that just drives around for the money and doesnt give a **** must be a bad feeling.



#13 NoSanityClause

NoSanityClause
  • Member

  • 1,390 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:34

As an Alonso fan, and having never been too impressed by Kimi, I must say that, obviously, I agree with most of what McNish has to say about Alonso.

 

But I still think that his harshness against Kimi is too much. So overreacting, in fact, as t think that perhaps he has something personal against the guy. Because even if we consider that the points table is a true reflection of the situation at Ferrari, and that Alonso is clearly superior over Kimi, it would still not be enough to justify asking for Kimi to be unceremoniously kicked out, after a dozen races.



#14 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,301 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:42

Well it is the BBC, we cannot expect much from them.



#15 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 10:52

Alonso & Ferrari lost the 2012 Championship because it got massively influenced by their last Champion, who after they paid him off came back and drove for Lotus, accumulating record breaking Point Streak as well as taking vital points off Ferrari at crucial stages, while (subconsciously imo) letting Vettel off the hook.

4 Races aptly defines Kimi's influence in the WDC finishing order of 2012 of the Top 3 (Vettel, Alonso, Kimi).

Bahrain- Kimi attacked but didn't manage to overtake Vettel.
Japan- Alonso hit Kimi's wing and swung out.
Abu Dhabi- Alonso had the faster car in the closing stages, but Kimi held him off.
Brazil- Kimi should have crashed out Vettel into turn 4, but his reflexes saved the day for RBR on the opening lap. Senna hit was child's play compared to what might have been without Kimi's avoidance.

Ferrari's Lesson learnt in Payoff: It's better to have Kimi on your side then another, directly hitting Ferrari while helping another rival lol.

2013- Kimi was 2nd in the WDC after Hunagry, and 3rd overall. So much for lost motivated driver of 2009.

Edited by Vinsin, 14 September 2014 - 11:03.


#16 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

Ferrari_F1_fan_2001
  • Member

  • 3,420 posts
  • Joined: May 01

Posted 14 September 2014 - 11:08

Too early to call for Kimi's replacement just yet.

 

The car sucks. Kimi is one of those 'zone' drivers where when he is comfortable he is awesome and vice versa - much like Sebastian Vettel. 

 

He CAN deliver and run Alonso close IF and WHEN he is comfortable. Next year marks a turning point, he'll have more input into the car and it should suit him better. That said, I think 2015 is the last year we'll see Alonso-Raikonnen together. 2016 will be all change. Vettel and Bianchi maybe?



#17 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 11:14

Well it is the BBC, we cannot expect much from them.

Yeah, Andrew Benson of BBC wrote Lotus were destined for doom for hiring an unmotivated, useless Finn in 2011.

Lotus would be thanking their lucky stars they didn't consult BBC esteemed opinion on Driver matters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...h_the_risk.html
Look, this guy has properly been made to look like a fool by Kimi Raikkonen. 12 races in a new team built up around Alonso over 5 years, and people are jumping the gun again. It's always wise to take stock. There is always more time than one thinks.

Edited by Vinsin, 14 September 2014 - 11:31.


#18 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,939 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 11:54

Funny how people are quick to dismiss three Le Mans wins and a WEC title. :lol:

 

To be honest, McNish's comments are totally fair. Car excuses or not, Raikkonen has been pretty average this year.



#19 Fontainebleau

Fontainebleau
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,270 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:02

Dear all,

 

As this article is getting a fair amount of attention, not just on this board, we are going to keep this thread - but we are going to ask you not to just focus on the driver lineup, as that would simply be an extension of the ALO vs RAI thread (which some of you have already mentioned), but on the whole picture described in the article.

 

I am going to do a bit of a clean-up to se if we can re-address the discussion. Those of you who think this thread is useless, remember that the best way of letting it die is not to post just to say that you think it is useless!  ;)

 

Thanks,

 

F.

 

Edit: Please, no "driver fans" generalisations!



Advertisement

#20 Gorma

Gorma
  • Member

  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:20

Anybody sensible can see that Raikkonen's inability to drive through the Ferrari problems has cost them third in the constructors championship. Fine if Alonso had the same problems, but he hasn't. McNish is just stating the obvious.

I like Kimi, but I'm kind of hoping he retires after this year so we can remember him for his heyday at McLaren and Lotus rather than his more abject days with Ferrari. I don't think he's ever looked comfortable there.

When even Alonso isn't beating Ricciardo and Bottas I cannot see how Ferrari could get third.

#21 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 15,870 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 14 September 2014 - 12:29

When even Alonso isn't beating Ricciardo and Bottas I cannot see how Ferrari could get third.

 

Ricciardo and Bottas have teammates too, both of which are behind Alonso in the standings. Vettel is only a few points behind in 6th, but Massa has less than half of Alonso's total (a proud tradition) and is languishing somewhere in 9th. If Räikkönen was up there with Alonso rather than trailing even Massa that might be enough for Ferrari to bridge the gap Alonso has to Ricciardo and Bottas.

 

Problems or not, this year has just not been good enough.

 

Right. Don't sack Felipe Massa after 3 years of failure, but sack Kimi after one season. 

 

If anything, Ferrari's treatment of Massa should serve as a warning, not an example.

 

Ferrari could have scored a WDC in 2012, and perhaps 2010 as well, had there been someone in that second Ferrari able to consistently take points away from Alonso's competitors.


Edited by Nonesuch, 14 September 2014 - 12:36.


#22 Reinmuster

Reinmuster
  • Member

  • 969 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 14:08

When car delivers, Kimi delivers.   ;)



#23 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,221 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 14:12

When car delivers, Kimi delivers.  ;)


Yes but Fernando delivers no matter what the car does. That's the issue (for Kimi) at the moment.

#24 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 14 September 2014 - 14:18

Alonso & Ferrari lost the 2012 Championship because it got massively influenced by their last Champion, who after they paid him off came back and drove for Lotus, accumulating record breaking Point Streak as well as taking vital points off Ferrari at crucial stages, while (subconsciously imo) letting Vettel off the hook.
 

 

If Raikkonen is so good he should prove it by putting his Ferrari on the podium (or doing it twice or three times).  :wave:


Edited by V8 Fireworks, 14 September 2014 - 14:18.


#25 Craven Morehead

Craven Morehead
  • Member

  • 6,287 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 14 September 2014 - 15:12

Ferrari has much bigger problems than the drivers. Get the damn car sorted and then you can start pointing fingers at the loose nuts behind the wheel. I think they know this, and will persist with their current line up.



#26 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 15:21

If Raikkonen is so good he should prove it by putting his Ferrari on the podium (or doing it twice or three times). :wave:

Kimi doesn't need to "prove" anything. Podiums are not big deal for him, considering he has the 2nd highest number in the current grid.

He has already put his Ferrari where it belongs, as Champions.

#27 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 6,121 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 15:30

What Ferrari needs going forward is stability in the only area it is currently possible ... the drivers. Keep the drivers, fix the car, and then if Kimi does not perform up to standard, replace him.



#28 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 15:40

Yes but Fernando delivers no matter what the car does. That's the issue (for Kimi) at the moment.

Ferrari needed a driver to tell them their car ain't no good.

Kimi is exactly that. According to some, he's so lazy, that he doesn't want to do the engineers job when they present him slow, midfield cars.

In a way, I agree. Engineers should do a better job while Kimi saves his superpowers to unleash it upon it's rivals. Points are boring, wins are fun.
Alonso can keep doing what he is doing nicely. Ying & Yang... They both will come together once the car is worthy of their talents.

Edited by Vinsin, 14 September 2014 - 15:44.


#29 Shambolic

Shambolic
  • Member

  • 1,285 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:07

Right. Don't sack Felipe Massa after 3 years of failure, but sack Kimi after one season. 

 

The guy had 2 great seasons and now when he's having a bad year, shots get fired. Going by that notion would mean Hamilton should have left F1 after 2011, Massa after 2010, Button after 2012, Perez after 2013. 

 

Logic. Logic everywhere. 

 

There is a possiblity Kimi looked so stunning in the Lotus because the Lotus was stunning (and perhaps also suited his driving style better). Who knows what Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg, might have done in the black and sort of gold cars. Maybe they'd now be smugly holding a couple of WDC, and a constructor's cup or two.

 

Ferrari not replacing Massa for quite so long probably did both Ferrari and Massa some harm - Massa has looked much better for his change of scenery. But I don't think that means they should repeat the mistake again just for fairness. The team will know if Kimi has the potential to make the improvements he *needs* to make in order to justify his seat, and I think if they manage to be objective about things and still find him lacking, the logical option would be to replace him.



#30 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,221 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:17

Ferrari needed a driver to tell them their car ain't no good.

Kimi is exactly that. According to some, he's so lazy, that he doesn't want to do the engineers job when they present him slow, midfield cars.

In a way, I agree. Engineers should do a better job while Kimi saves his superpowers to unleash it upon it's rivals. Points are boring, wins are fun.
Alonso can keep doing what he is doing nicely. Ying & Yang... They both will come together once the car is worthy of their talents.

 

Hadn't seen it this way. You might be right. But Kimi should still be closer to Alonso than he currently is. At least I expected him to. 



#31 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:19

Give kimi another season,if ferrari wants him out after then so be it. they are not losing anything keeping him on board anyway.



#32 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:32

Give kimi another season,if ferrari wants him out after then so be it. they are not losing anything keeping him on board anyway.

 

Bianchi would have had 5 podiums in that car by now

 

...

...

...

...

 

Plot twist: with a V8 engine. 



#33 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:41

Bianchi would have had 5 podiums in that car by now

...
...
...
...

Plot twist: with a V8 engine.

To go with his spectacular wins at Monaco and Hungary. Make that V10's

#34 Cyanide

Cyanide
  • Member

  • 5,299 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:44

The team will know if Kimi has the potential to make the improvements he *needs* to make in order to justify his seat, and I think if they manage to be objective about things and still find him lacking, the logical option would be to replace him.

 

They probably know already he has more potential than Massa because:

 

a) they rehired him

b) they're keeping him for 2015 

 

They're not going to change their view because some posters on the Autosport forums think he's no better than Massa. They are the ones who have the data and the evidence in their hands. All we've got is jack **** a.k.a past results a.k.a basically nothing even remotely relevant. 

 

You can come here and say "well, yeah, Kimi was only good because all the cars he drove in his career were so fast Alonso could have won titles in them". What's your evidence on that other than your opinion based on a feeling? 



#35 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 16:47

There is a possiblity Kimi looked so stunning in the Lotus because the Lotus was stunning (and perhaps also suited his driving style better). Who knows what Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg, might have done in the black and sort of gold cars. Maybe they'd now be smugly holding a couple of WDC, and a constructor's cup or two.

Ferrari not replacing Massa for quite so long probably did both Ferrari and Massa some harm - Massa has looked much better for his change of scenery. But I don't think that means they should repeat the mistake again just for fairness. The team will know if Kimi has the potential to make the improvements he *needs* to make in order to justify his seat, and I think if they manage to be objective about things and still find him lacking, the logical option would be to replace him.

Your reference to Kimi-Lotus downplaying is pretty... Shambolic.

Nice fantasy about 99% of the grid winning the championship in Kimi's Lotus... Because we all know by now that Kimi is pretty useless at wins or championship himself. Why such a world dominating car got wasted under Kimi (poor poor Lotus), even Sato would have thrashed the entire field in it.

Come to think of it, Kimi is so useless that Alonso, Schumi, Rosberg should have definitely driven the Mclaren's in 2003 & 2005 as well. Maybe they would have magically conjured up championships by pushing Kimi's car over the line whenever it blew up from the lead. Kimi has no such powers, he should have never been in F1 to begin with.

Edited by Vinsin, 14 September 2014 - 16:52.


#36 blacky

blacky
  • Member

  • 2,360 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:07

I think what most people forget in the discussion about Kimi at Lotus: the tyres.

These two years were the "era" of the very soft tyres. That helped him a lot, this year however is very different.



#37 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:11

I think what most people forget in the discussion about Kimi at Lotus: the tyres.
These two years were the "era" of the very soft tyres. That helped him a lot, this year however is very different.

What tyres?
The entire grid had a head start over Kimi in that "era" of soft tyres. If anything, other drivers should really question themselves if a "has been", 2 year away driver could come in and give them a lesson in tyre management.

Edited by Vinsin, 14 September 2014 - 17:18.


#38 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 6,371 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:14

kimi had problems with the tires too,especially in qualy. vettel was the one who was handing out lessons in tire management.



#39 Vinsin

Vinsin
  • Member

  • 612 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:18

kimi had problems with the tires too,especially in qualy. vettel was the one who was handing out lessons in tire management.

Vettel was handing out lessons in world domination.

Advertisement

#40 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 2,524 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:22

There is a possiblity Kimi looked so stunning in the Lotus because the Lotus was stunning (and perhaps also suited his driving style better). Who knows what Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg, might have done in the black and sort of gold cars. Maybe they'd now be smugly holding a couple of WDC, and a constructor's cup or two.

Actually, he won races in that lotus he shouldn't have. Not sure what you're getting at.

The only race I think he failed to win was germany 13.

 

On topic: I pretty much doubt any other driver on the grid would be much closer to alonso than Rai is right now. So no, getting rid of him would make no sense. I still rate him above the likes of hulk, bianchi, bottas, perez and the like.


Edited by Radion, 14 September 2014 - 17:23.


#41 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 7,292 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:26

These kinds of articles bug me.

 

He is talking up Alonso like he is the best driver ever, and then turning that around and panning Kimi for not being equal to his own inflated opinion of Alonso.

 

Not being Alonso's equal in some journalists eyes doesn't make him a bad driver who should be fired.

 

Was Barrichello a bad driver because Schumacher was his team mate? Was Webber a bad driver because of Vettel? Of course not.



#42 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 20,502 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:33

'Morning everyone!

 

Fontainebleau has asked me to change the thread title something more general. No problem, I'll do that in just a second. I have no problem at all with it if the mods just want to delete the thread or move it to the VS thread. It's not that big of a deal to me, and I had no idea it would cause such a stir. Never can predict how people will react though, as we have seen.I would have just deleted it last night if I could have, but once people started replying, it was impossible to do. I would have been perfectly happy letting the post slide down and off of the front page, but it seems the critics were more than happy to keep it at the top, despite their displeasure. Very interesting mode of protest, imho!  ;)

 

Take care everyone!

 

Tim

 

ETA: Seems it's impossible for me to edit the title, so I've messaged Fontainebleau asking him her to do so for me. ETA2: Thank you Miss Fontainebleau!


Edited by AustinF1, 14 September 2014 - 18:00.


#43 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,265 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:38

Yes but Fernando delivers no matter what the car does. That's the issue (for Kimi) at the moment.

 

Delivers higher point finishes than Kimi - which as a standard does not result in much for Ferrari, Fernando or Kimi.   As stated above, Ferrari has bigger problems and this type of opinion is wrong and shortsighted in its attempt to micromanage from the pressbox.



#44 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 8,362 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:44

Delivers higher point finishes than Kimi - which as a standard does not result in much for Ferrari, Fernando or Kimi.   

Well, it helps them maintain a higher position in the WCC



#45 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,221 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:45

Delivers higher point finishes than Kimi - which as a standard does not result in much for Ferrari, Fernando or Kimi.   As stated above, Ferrari has bigger problems and this type of opinion is wrong and shortsighted in its attempt to micromanage from the pressbox.

 

I didn't attempt anything. I'm only impressed by the huge gap in points between the two. I didn't mean that as criticizing Kimi, although I understand how it can be taken the wrong way.

 

But I did later aknowledge as a good point raised, that Kimi eventually was highlighting the car deficiencies more and it could be a blessing on the long term. We'll see. But I'm not even sure Ferrari can be cured from all its issues as quickly as next year or the one after that. By the time they manage to get on top of their issues, it might be too late for Kimi to benefit. Hope I'm wrong. 



#46 blacky

blacky
  • Member

  • 2,360 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 14 September 2014 - 17:58

What tyres?
The entire grid had a head start over Kimi in that "era" of soft tyres. If anything, other drivers should really question themselves if a "has been", 2 year away driver could come in and give them a lesson in tyre management.

 

The 2012er Pirellis were totally different to their tyres before, much softer, naturally this helped Räikkönen a lot as a very sensitive driver. He has not given anyone a lesson in tyre management, it's a logical thing that a driver who has a sensitive driving style has an advantage over the distance but more problems over one lap. Nothing special.

 

And such a driver has big problems especially in Q when the tyres are very hard, for example this year or 2011.



#47 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,265 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 18:01

I didn't attempt anything. I'm only impressed by the huge gap in points between the two. I didn't mean that as criticizing Kimi, although I understand how it can be taken the wrong way.

 

But I did later aknowledge as a good point raised, that Kimi eventually was highlighting the car deficiencies more and it could be a blessing on the long term. We'll see. But I'm not even sure Ferrari can be cured from all its issues as quickly as next year or the one after that. By the time they manage to get on top of their issues, it might be too late for Kimi to benefit. Hope I'm wrong. 

 

I was not referring to you, but rather to McNish's opinion (unless you are McNish :p )

 

Kimi is the Ferrari driver who speaks about his "issues" at times in terms of working with the engineers toward long term goals (2015).  We saw Kimi doing this at Lotus and results suffer in the short term, but improve in the long term.  Fernando hasn't spoken about it directly, but perhaps he is doing it also.  There is no point sweating this season, which is what makes McNish's opinion off the mark, imo.



#48 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 6,314 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 14 September 2014 - 18:11

There is a possiblity Kimi looked so stunning in the Lotus because the Lotus was stunning (and perhaps also suited his driving style better). Who knows what Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg, might have done in the black and sort of gold cars. Maybe they'd now be smugly holding a couple of WDC, and a constructor's cup or two.

 

I can't take this serious. You're talking like Kimi is a mediocre driver and any other driver would have performed better, no matter what the car is. And, Schumacher? Come on.  :lol:



#49 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 3,268 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 14 September 2014 - 18:45

Kimi is no slouch. He has shown everyone in F1 that if he is in harmony with the car then he delivers. He drove well for Lotus and that was only a season ago. Ferrari and the rest of the paddock know this, so they should be working flat out to deliver. His comments have shown that they have tried but changes in one area have affected them in others. When he has been happy with the car (recent races), he has performed better than earlier in the season,



#50 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,265 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 14 September 2014 - 18:48

Well, it helps them maintain a higher position in the WCC

 

They just slipped into 4th, so it is not even doing that.