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GP2 to introduce DRS from 2015


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:07

http://www.gp2series...2-cars-in-2015/

 

Really terrible move, the series doesn't need DRS at the moment considering the racing is largely good.



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#2 billm99uk

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:12

They should introduce it in GP3 instead!



#3 Anja

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:14

Terrible, true, but logical as GP2 is supposed to be as close as possible to F1.


Edited by Anja, 17 September 2014 - 12:15.


#4 billm99uk

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:17

Terrible, true, but logical as GP2 is supposed to be as close as possible to F1.

 

It's certainly a bit bizarre not to have it when WSbR does (if not quite the same system!)



#5 RedRabbit

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:20

Never understand this. It's a SPEC series, so the ultimate performance of the car isn't crucial. Design one that uses more ground effect in a safe manner, like the original GP2 cars. Or is Bernie worried that GP2 will easily be faster than F1 then?



#6 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:21

Though it doesn't really need it, it has to be said that their mission statement is basically to be a stepping stone to F1 and as such should mirror F1 in various areas, so it's not a great shock at all really.



#7 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:22

'They' still do not get it, make the various series LESS entertainment over Racing, LESS gimmicky, LESS spec not more.

 

:cool:



#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:28

This is really bad. I hope somehow they reverse this decision, GP2 seem at least somewhat self-aware, let's see. Sigh....

#9 Fastcake

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:41

Bit odd really. As has been stated, if there is a problem with overtaking just get Dallara to design a better car. It's the only advantage with a spec series.

#10 billm99uk

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 12:52

Bit odd really. As has been stated, if there is a problem with overtaking just get Dallara to design a better car. It's the only advantage with a spec series.

 

I don't believe they're introducing it because there's a problem with overtaking in GP2 though. They're introducing it because GP2 is there to train F1 drivers and they'll need to use it there.



#11 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 13:10

i was just thinking isn't it time they ditched DRS from F1. :rolleyes:



#12 mtknot

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 13:22

I'm pretty sure laptimes for GP2 would become almost as fast, if not faster than the last five grid slots of F1 with the addition of DRS... 



#13 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 13:24

Luckily another CEO who doesn't look around what racing enthousiasts think. :down: Absolute horrible move. I have to jump through hoops to watch GP2, so I'll use my own DRS and pass by it without watching.

 

Perhaps they should introduce lift & coast, fuellimits, ERS and other stuff as well. 



#14 TheRacingElf

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 13:59

Don't have to watch GP2 anymore then.. jeez who makes those decisions  :confused: 



#15 Ali_G

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:04

I'm beginning to think that those who govern motorsport don't have a ****ing clue. Not an iota.

Motorsport is dying overall and its governance has a lot to do with it.

#16 TheRacingElf

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:12

Motorsport is dying overall and its governance has a lot to do with it.

THIS

 

I nearly don't even know which series to watch anymore, everything is getting ruined  :cry:


Edited by TheRacingElf, 17 September 2014 - 14:13.


#17 Disgrace

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:14

 

What a desperate roll of the dice to remain relevant to F1.



#18 SenorSjon

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:17

http://www.f1reader....s-and-drs-28416

 

Same guy, different day



#19 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:24

Dont these guys ever read Autosport forums?



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#20 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:26

Dont these guys ever read Autosport forums?

 

They do, however then spend 10 years trying to understand what the actual conversation we had was about.

 

:cool:



#21 JHSingo

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:34

Not like the series hasn't got bigger problems...

 

Oh well. It'll only become even more irrelevant than it already is.



#22 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:38

It's already one of the most spec series anywhere, and you guys are upset about the series losing idealogical purity because of DRS? You know it's had reverse grids and mandatory pitstops since the first race?



#23 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:42

They do, however then spend 10 years trying to understand what the actual conversation we had was about.

 

:cool:

 

I'm sure we are speaking in legit English though. Wonder what they do not understand ? :drunk:



#24 August

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 14:46

Can't get upset of this. That's the direction F1 has taken and it's not strange GP2 will follow them.

 

I could rage about this but I don't rage. I'm losing my faith in Europe-based open-wheel racing.



#25 P123

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:06

That's the final nail for GP2 surely? Obviously being able to pass and defend is a skillset no longer required. Not that many of the current grid in GP2 have those skills anyway, but with this we'll never really know...

#26 Kyo

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:08

As it is now, GP2 has great racing with some nice overtaking maneuvers on usual and sometimes on unusual places.

 

Positives

+ The reverse grid will become a little bit more tolerable.

+ Easier for spotting the faster drivers since the bad pit stops and strategy calls will have less effect on the races results.

+ Easier for comebacks after a problem in qualy or a dnf in the first race and as a result the standings shall better represent the drivers performance.

 

Negatives

- Overtaking will become very easy / easy in 80% of the circuits and as a result we will have worse racing with less exciting battles.

- Drivers will not develop defensive or overtaking skills.



#27 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:08

It's already one of the most spec series anywhere, and you guys are upset about the series losing idealogical purity because of DRS? You know it's had reverse grids and mandatory pitstops since the first race?

 

It's a symptom and symptomatic development we are 'upset' about. We all know how GP2 was fvcked from the beginning, which will not stop me from continue to berate and decry when ever 'they' continue their march towards irrelevance.

 

:cool:



#28 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:46

I don't think this fundamentally changes what GP2 is. It's a minor rule tweak. The identity of the series is unchanged. It's more of the same, at worst.

 

Though it's impressive it had so many fans to convert into this many detractors.



#29 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:19

I don't think this fundamentally changes what GP2 is. It's a minor rule tweak. The identity of the series is unchanged. It's more of the same, at worst.

 

Though it's impressive it had so many fans to convert into this many detractors.

Removed by poster


Edited by KWSN - DSM, 17 September 2014 - 16:32.


#30 Spillage

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 16:25

I don't understand the hostility to this. GP2 is supposed to be F1's feeder series, rather than to stand on its own two feet. It makes perfect sense for GP2 to follow F1, not just with this but ultimately with hybrid power systems and such.



#31 olliek88

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 21:15

Ok, so, i get that the reason for introducing DRS is to make it more F1 relevant but think about it, what will this change add to a driver's repertoire that they'll really need to learn prior ti F1? The ability to press a button and overtake with greater ease. Not really going to have much benefit. IF it were to be introduced i'd much rather it were in the same vain as FR3.5's system, but that'll never happen as Bernie would essentially be praising GP2's main rival.

 

The reason i watch GP2 is it's exciting, it's always full of action be it good or the down right clusterf**k, but there reaches a point of saturation when it becomes too much. I'm not saying this is the straw to break my back, so to speak, but when i compare FR3.5 and GP2 in terms of the series, weekend structure and general philosophy there is one clear winner. FR3.5 has always had quality in almost every context, GP2 hasn't but its compensated for it by being, well, batshit crazy, but in a good way. Now though, now it's just crazy...


Edited by olliek88, 17 September 2014 - 21:16.


#32 OvDrone

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 22:50

DRS or no DRS be assured that Canamasas will still, somehow, **** things up in a very Buxton-maddening way.



#33 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 08:46

That's the final nail for GP2 surely?

It needs to be reset again.  :)

 

F3000 goes in a cycle of boom-bust.  GP2 reset it... Now the "boom" is lost again.



#34 August

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:09

To be honest, this does very little to my GP2 interest. Somehow just can't get excited abut a feeder series. I'd almost prefer if GP2 races were in non-GP weekends, it'd be the main single-seater attraction in Europe that weekend. In that regard even F3 is better. Macau GP has its own flair, not only because of an exciting track but also because it's the big thing that weekend. Plus many young talents will skip GP2/FR3.5, Bottas came from GP3, Verstappen will come from F3.



#35 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:12

I think its fantastic.

Purism, schmurism.

This will let the drivers race. Racing isn't too bad in GP2 at the moment or anything, but its still all too easy to get caught in processions after a disappointing qualifying or bad start. Should make for much better Sprint races as well.

Great news.

I don't understand the hostility to this.

Its a popular thing to dislike.

I still don't think many people truly understand the reasoning behind DRS in the first place.

Edited by Seanspeed, 18 September 2014 - 09:14.


#36 TheRacingElf

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:18

I still don't think many people truly understand the reasoning behind DRS in the first place.

It is for killing real racing isn't it?



#37 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:18

Ok, so, i get that the reason for introducing DRS is to make it more F1 relevant but think about it, what will this change add to a driver's repertoire that they'll really need to learn prior ti F1? The ability to press a button and overtake with greater ease. Not really going to have much benefit. IF it were to be introduced i'd much rather it were in the same vain as FR3.5's system, but that'll never happen as Bernie would essentially be praising GP2's main rival.
 
The reason i watch GP2 is it's exciting, it's always full of action be it good or the down right clusterf**k, but there reaches a point of saturation when it becomes too much. I'm not saying this is the straw to break my back, so to speak, but when i compare FR3.5 and GP2 in terms of the series, weekend structure and general philosophy there is one clear winner. FR3.5 has always had quality in almost every context, GP2 hasn't but its compensated for it by being, well, batshit crazy, but in a good way. Now though, now it's just crazy...

I think this will actually clean up the racing a bit. When overtaking is difficult, you often have to take more risks, get a bit more desperate and whatnot. DRS doesn't exactly make things easy, but it means less desperation. You can calm down a bit knowing that you should be able to find an opportunity so long as you drive well. Sometimes without DRS, you don't really have that and simply wait in line and hope for a mistake from the person in front of you.

It is for killing real racing isn't it?

You're just proving my point.

What is 'real' racing anyways? Just a nonsense 'true Scotsman' argument.

Edited by Seanspeed, 18 September 2014 - 09:19.


#38 TheRacingElf

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:21

You're just proving my point.

What is 'real' racing anyways? Just a nonsense 'true Scotsman' argument.

Real racing is in my opinion 2 cars fighting for a place in a FAIR way, drs just isn't fair..the driver behind gets an unfair advantage and the car in front isn't able to defend



#39 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:30

Real racing is in my opinion 2 cars fighting for a place in a FAIR way, drs just isn't fair..the driver behind gets an unfair advantage and the car in front isn't able to defend

Racing without DRS isn't fair, either. A car following another car has reduced downforce. DRS is all about neutralizing that inherent unfairness. Zones need to be tuned a bit here and there, but the reasoning behind DRS is actually *all* about fairness and actually letting drivers race.

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#40 TheRacingElf

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:39

Racing without DRS isn't fair, either. A car following another car has reduced downforce. DRS is all about neutralizing that inherent unfairness. Zones need to be tuned a bit here and there, but the reasoning behind DRS is actually *all* about fairness and actually letting drivers race.

But the car behind has a slipstream on the straight equalising the loss of downforce in the corners.. that's how we were racing for decades when overtaking was still an art. Nowadays with drs we can almost give the car in front a blue flag, that has nearly the same effect as drs.



#41 Ali_G

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:42

Racing without DRS isn't fair, either. A car following another car has reduced downforce. DRS is all about neutralizing that inherent unfairness. Zones need to be tuned a bit here and there, but the reasoning behind DRS is actually *all* about fairness and actually letting drivers race.


As The Racing Elf has stated, the slipstream effect is probably even greater than the loss of downforce through the corners. The reasons cars are spaced out on straights is due to the front car being able to get the power down earlier than the following car. That has nothing to do with aerodynamics.

The yo-yo effect is greater on circuits with slow corners than those with fast corners. That's why ovals produce closer racing in comparison to slow street circuits. Various adjustments to circuits over the last 30 years, like installing chicanes everywhere is what is hurting racing just as much as more aerodynamically advanced cars.

Edited by Ali_G, 18 September 2014 - 09:43.


#42 noikeee

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:48

As The Racing Elf has stated, the slipstream effect is probably even greater than the loss of downforce through the corners.

 

No it isn't, slipstream in modern openwheelers is much much much less effective than the giant slog of understeer of dirty air, specially through quick corners.

 

Again, go watch F1 races of around 2002-2008. Or GP2 races when they introduced the new car before the Pirelli tyres. You can't overtake without taking gigantic risks even if you're much quicker than the car ahead in clean air.

 

GP2 is meant to teach drivers for F1 so it has to have similar cars and racing to F1. Of course it has to have DRS. That being said I've not watched much GP2 lately so don't really know how the racing is at the moment.


Edited by noikeee, 18 September 2014 - 09:50.


#43 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:50

But the car behind has a slipstream on the straight equalising the loss of downforce in the corners.. that's how we were racing for decades when overtaking was still an art. Nowadays with drs we can almost give the car in front a blue flag, that has nearly the same effect as drs.

Nah, you're exaggerating things greatly. I'd guess that over 90% of DRS uses during a race do not result in an overtake at all.

And the normal slipstream effect obviously does not equalize the downforce loss in a corner. It was pretty well observed that a car could be as much as 2 seconds quicker than a car in front and still be completely unable to overtake or even get close to overtaking. It was nowhere near 'equalized'.

#44 Ali_G

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:51

No it isn't, slipstream in modern openwheelers is much much much less effective than the giant slog of understeer of dirty air, specially through quick corners.
 
Again, go watch F1 races of around 2002-2008. Or GP2 races when they introduced the new car before the Pirelli tyres. You can't overtake without taking gigantic risks even if you're much quicker than the car ahead in clean air.
 
GP2 is meant to teach drivers for F1 so it has to have similar cars and racing to F1. Of course it has to have DRS.


You are ignoring the effect of the driver in front having the huge advantage of getting the power down earlier coming out of corners which is many times more the reason for spacing on straights than aerodynamical issues.

Modern circuits now have slow corners leading onto straights which only exacerbates the problem.

Edited by Ali_G, 18 September 2014 - 09:54.


#45 rjsports

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:53

Being champion in saving your tyres has just been made a whole lot easier. Great job. So Richelmi, Leal and other 'talented' drivers can really fight for the championship next year without having to do difficult overtake moves. :wave:  



#46 Seanspeed

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 09:58

You are ignoring the effect of the driver in front having the huge advantage of getting the power down earlier coming out of corners which is many times more the reason for spacing on straights than aerodynamically issues.

Modern circuits now have slow corners leading onto straights which only exacerbate the problem.

The car in front gets a *double* advantage of not only being able to get on the power earlier due to arriving there first, but then also having the following car not be able to take the corner in a similar manner due to having reduced downforce. If the following car didn't have that problem, it wouldn't ever have been an issue and we wouldn't have seen the ridiculous processions that we did.

#47 TheRacingElf

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:20

It was pretty well observed that a car could be as much as 2 seconds quicker than a car in front and still be completely unable to overtake

Have you ever watched GP2? overtakes left, right and centre



#48 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 22:17

Next thing we'll hear is they'll have the same engine (sounds) as F1 I suppose?



#49 Atreiu

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 22:32

It'd be great if they had the same engine, even if it were to simple downtuned versions ready to go. I guess somehow it could help the manufacturers spread/dilute their costs.

 

DRS makes no sense because it's a spec chassis series and any excessive turbulence created by cars can and should be adressed from one year to the next. They don't suffer form an endless aerodynamic war.



#50 Muppetmad

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 07:22

Unnecessary. The racing is fine as it is.