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Crystal Palace BSCC Race, 18th May 1959


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#1 TimR2106

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 15:32

I hope I am posting this in the correct forum? My apologies if not. Trying to research some of the cars in the above race, hoping someone can help me confirm some of the details and fill in the gaps I have in my information.

I am interested in 6 cars in particular. I have found some excellent, high quality black and white photos of the race at the Revs Institute for Automotive Reasearch website, but as they are in black and white I would appreciate help with colours. I would also like to know missing race numbers and car registration numbers. Here is the info I think I have found, any confirmation/additional info would be much appreciated.

1. Riley 1.5, driven by Les Leston, race number 83, reg number UXD 266, colour of the same car at Silverstone in 1958 (according to old colour footage in 'On The Limit' DVD) seems to be mid grey with black roof

2. Team Speedwell Austin A35, driven by John Sprinzel, race number 90, reg number MRX 342, car appears to have a dark roof (black?) and is described in the report on touringcarracing.net as yellow. Is this Primrose Yellow as used on some Speedwell Sprites? Would the roof be black?

3. Team Speedwell Austin A35, driven by Len Adams, race number 91, reg number UYX 930, colour - see above, appears to be same

4. Alexander Engineering Austin A40, driven by Geoff Williamson, race number 95, reg number - none visible on front (was taken to meeting in a van according to race report), colour appears to be white with 'dark' roof and side flash??

5. MG Magnette, driven by Peter Jopp, race number ????, reg number ??????, colour ?????

6. Austin A40, driven by George 'Doc' Shepherd, race number ????, reg number ????, colour ????

 

Would also appreciate any tips on research for the future.

I know it's a long shot that anyone will know the colours from a race that far back but here's hoping. Many thanks in advance.


Edited by TimR2106, 17 September 2014 - 15:37.


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#2 d j fox

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 17:02

I think the Speedwell cars were both yellow

Jopp #86. I’m guessing either red or maroon

Shepherd # 92 reg UCE 13. From memory I believe the A40 was light grey with black roof

 

As far as other information is concerned race programmes of the era gave little information—rarely mentioning model types  (e.g Austin rather than Austin A40). Very few gave car colours…maybe the BARC?.

The only source I have seen that mentions colours (plus reg. numbers) in detail is the excellent  “A Record of Motor Racing at Aintree by Graham Heath and John Lawson.



#3 dgs

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 07:46

Small amount of information.

 

Note 5:  MG Magnette (Peter Jopp)  Race no 86

 

Note 6:  Austin A40 (George 'Doc' Shepherd)  Race no 92. Reg no: UCE 13

 

Information from most comprehensive book on Crystal Palace Motor Racing.

 

Two volume 'A Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace' by Richard Page.

 

This is available from Formula One Register, covers every entry/result for all races whilst circuit in use.  



#4 TimR2106

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 10:15

Thank you both very much, every piece of information, however small, adds another piece to the jigsaw and is much appreciated.

dgs, I have seen reference to that book before and it is one I would love to have - hopefully one day.

Anyone got any more thoughts on the 'yellow' colour for the Speedwell A35s? I keep finding pictures of Speedwell Sprites (including one driven by John Sprinzel) that are painted a kind of pale primrose yellow so I would guess that it is likely to be that colour, but I would like to have it confirmed. Of course, with the variations in colour photographs every one appears a slightly different shade of primrose yellow but that's a separate problem!



#5 Rob29

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 14:45

Title of this thread had be baffled at first-guess you meant BRSCC? I was there but sadly did not have a camera in my schooldays-and programme long since lost so cannot add anything more here



#6 Alan Cox

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 14:57

Title of this thread had be baffled at first-guess you meant BRSCC?

No Rob, it refers to the British Saloon Car Championship, as it was called in those far-off days



#7 Allan Lupton

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 16:40

Anyone got any more thoughts on the 'yellow' colour for the Speedwell A35s? I keep finding pictures of Speedwell Sprites (including one driven by John Sprinzel) that are painted a kind of pale primrose yellow so I would guess that it is likely to be that colour, but I would like to have it confirmed. Of course, with the variations in colour photographs every one appears a slightly different shade of primrose yellow but that's a separate problem!

garyfrogeye who posts on here would know, I should think, and if not can ask John Sprinzel - who can probably give the colour's name.



#8 TimR2106

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 17:14

and if not can ask John Sprinzel - who can probably give the colour's name.

Thanks for that Allan, I don't think I could get much better than straight from the horse's mouth. I'll try and contact him.



#9 garyfrogeye

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 20:05

John's reply may not help too much as he was more interested in how to make them go faster rather than what colour they were., He does however have a request.

 

Hi Gary, I'm sorry but I have never been anarak enough to remember colors and stuff. Yellow and dark green were Speedwell colors, and yellow and black was used on the A 35's.
I recall Doc's car was gray. 
By the way, would you have any decent pix of Sprites in UK rallies in the 58=60 era? I am doing a story for the US Healey mag. which I would also give to you, but don't have many pix of Tommy Gold, Pat, etc.etc. and would love your help. cheers. J

 

My guess (and it really is only a guess) is that it's likely to be primrose yellow, as that would have been a readilly available BMC colour at the time. The only thing making me question that is, that they may have wanted the car to be very bright and primrose yellow is much more of a pastel colour. See, I'm no hlep at all! :confused: 



#10 RCH

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:57

K & R Replicas have made models of the Sprinzel A35 in a much more, well, yellowy yellow than Primrose. About the colour of my old Imp, see avatar, but that photo has probably faded. I'll see if I can find out the actual colour the model makers used and whether that is based on actual fact or memory.

 

Must admit I used to think the Speedwell cars were pale blue, maybe BMC Speedwell Blue confused me.



#11 TimR2106

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 08:16

Rod, thank you for the information. Garyfrogeye suggested that I contact the A30/35 Owners' Club and Dave Walsh at the Club has now sent me a picture of John Sprinzels's car on the Alpine Rally in 1957. It backs up your information that the car was painted a much more vibrant shade of yellow. In fact it looks almost custard yellow. If you could find out the colour used by the model makers then that would be very helpful to me.



#12 RCH

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 09:45

The model I was thinking of was built by the chap who builds models for us and was painted in Ford Signal Yellow, he doesn't know whether that is right or not. The model is still available if you are interested. I wasn't far wrong since I believe my Imp was painted Ford Signal Yellow! Don't know whether this is the correct colour though.



#13 riley

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 16:10

Hi,

I've only just found this topic, but might be able to help with no.1 on your list!

 

Les Lestons car was Black over Birch Grey - a standard Riley One-Point-Five colour scheme.

His car was an early pre-production model built at the MG factory in Abingdon. It was then modified and tuned by the BMC Competitions Department for Les. He raced and rallied the car for two seasons in 1958 and 1959.

In 1958 he came 1st in his class in the British Saloon Championship and then in 1959 he came 3rd overall in the championship. He also competed in 2 Monte Carlo rallies and 1 RAC rally - all in the same car!

 

Trust this is of some interest/help. :)

 

Regards,

 

Roger