Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

were Mercedes wrong to send Rosberg to the grid?


  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 purplehaireddolphin

purplehaireddolphin
  • Member

  • 312 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 23 September 2014 - 14:57

Just want opinions, really.

 

I was thinking, the radio message about Rosberg getting off the grid manually, and it being an intermittent fault. What if he had got away well but then had problems at the start, there's have been a stationary car, right at the front of the grid and I'm old enough to remember what happened to Paletti.

 

So were Merc wrong to send him to the grid knowing his car was faulty?



Advertisement

#2 BigBadBless

BigBadBless
  • Member

  • 301 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:10

To be honest, I'd expect the cars behind to have been informed about Rosberg's problem, so I'd hope it would be okay. 



#3 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

HuddersfieldTerrier1986
  • Member

  • 2,712 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:16

Of course they weren't wrong to send him to the grid. He might have been able to get away ok from the grid on both occasions. The only time you don't send the car to the grid is if you KNOW you can't get the car ready to leave the pit exit by the time the pitlane closes. Any other time, you go to the grid and try to fix the problem.



#4 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 6,773 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:35

They were damned if they do and damned if they don't.



#5 noikeee

noikeee
  • Member

  • 23,156 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:45

Oh come on. Of course not.



#6 sabjit

sabjit
  • Member

  • 2,992 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:48

Imagine the internet uproar if they didn't from conspirators. 



#7 redreni

redreni
  • Member

  • 4,709 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 September 2014 - 15:56

Well, you have to consider the alternative. If you don't leave the pit lane by the 15 minute signal, you can't start from the grid. That's in the regulations. But if you do go to the grid, you can still work on the problem on the grid - maybe you'll be able to fix it. By going to the grid you're not making a definite commitment to start the race from the grid, so it's not dangerous in and of itself. You can still pit at the end of the formation lap, and even if you can't get the car moving at the start of the formation lap, you can still be pushed to the pit lane and start from there. But you are making sure that you will be allowed to start from the grid if the wiring problem corrects itself, which you couldn't do if you didn't go to the grid. So any way you look at it, it's always better to go to the grid if you can.

 

The safety-critical decision is the one you make on the formation lap, i.e. start from your grid slot, or come in and start from the pit lane. Obviously it's better to start from the grid if you possibly can, because one would prefer to start the race in second position rather than last. But you have to bear in mind that if you stall on the grid and the start goes ahead, you will be out of the race and could cause a nasty accident, whereas if you stall in the pitlane you have mechanics on hand and can restart. That safety-critical decision was never taken, because the failure of Rosberg's car to move at the start of the formation lap forced them to start from the pitlane whether they wanted to or not. So it's a non-issue. And anyway, the radio message to which you refer was transmitted not long before the start of the formation lap, and basically showed that the team was in fact giving due consideration to a pit lane start even in the event they had managed to pull away from the dummy grid.



#8 JohnWray

JohnWray
  • Member

  • 61 posts
  • Joined: August 14

Posted 23 September 2014 - 16:56

they were right. imagine the forum meltdown if they had sent Rosberg to the back off the grid without any (visible) cause  :rolleyes:



#9 BillBald

BillBald
  • Member

  • 5,818 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 23 September 2014 - 17:03

they were right. imagine the forum meltdown if they had sent Rosberg to the back off the grid without any (visible) cause  :rolleyes:

 

No biggie. It would just have been part of his punishment for Spa. Monza wasn't enough.



#10 ForzaGTR

ForzaGTR
  • Member

  • 3,920 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 September 2014 - 18:50

Imagine the internet uproar if they didn't from conspirators. 

 

This.



#11 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 44,619 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 23 September 2014 - 20:09

If they had made the decision early and not sent him out would they have had time to change the loom and start from the pitlane? 



#12 redreni

redreni
  • Member

  • 4,709 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 23 September 2014 - 20:32

If they had made the decision early and not sent him out would they have had time to change the loom and start from the pitlane? 

 

I'm pretty sure if you change the wiring loom, you have to take the car apart. I'm not sure how long it takes, but I'd be astonished if they could have got Rosberg out before the end of the race, let alone before the start.



#13 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 3,170 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 23 September 2014 - 21:12

Did they actually say what the problem was?

 

..or are they still looking?  ;)



#14 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 16,115 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 23 September 2014 - 21:45

They did all they were meant to do. Point null.



#15 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 9,272 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 23 September 2014 - 22:27

maybe they tried and nico responded with "who do you think i am? im not lewis hamilton.

 

chilton would also work :)



#16 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 10,082 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 23 September 2014 - 23:00

Just want opinions, really.

 

I was thinking, the radio message about Rosberg getting off the grid manually, and it being an intermittent fault. What if he had got away well but then had problems at the start, there's have been a stationary car, right at the front of the grid and I'm old enough to remember what happened to Paletti.

 

So were Merc wrong to send him to the grid knowing his car was faulty?

 

No because the test of whether he could get away normally was leaving on the formation lap, and that way if the car did work they had a running car with no reason to think it would face the same problem on the proper start, and if it didn't (as what actually transpired) they had an opportunity to get it running from the pit lane without leaving a stationary car on the grid.



#17 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 10,082 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 23 September 2014 - 23:01

I'm pretty sure if you change the wiring loom, you have to take the car apart. I'm not sure how long it takes, but I'd be astonished if they could have got Rosberg out before the end of the race, let alone before the start.

 

Wasn't it a loom dedicated to the steering wheel functions though and not the main loom that runs through the car? If the two things are separate enough it could've been an option...



#18 Seano

Seano
  • Member

  • 358 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 23 September 2014 - 23:46

Presumably Mercedes had warned the other team's drivers of the strong possibility of a no-drive for Nico.

 

I think it would have been a good idea to have thrown a stationary yellow on the car as a warning to the other drivers (and cleared the grid a bit more). That could soon be changed to waved or withdrawn if Nico hadn't got a gear - instead the marshal was a bit slow at getting it waved, quite a few cars had already passed.

 

As an aside, I'm feeling very old, its 32 years since Riccardo Paletti's death in these circumstances. RIP young man - we should always remember the heavy price you paid,

 

Seano



#19 ExFlagMan

ExFlagMan
  • Member

  • 5,725 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 September 2014 - 08:27

Presumably Mercedes had warned the other team's drivers of the strong possibility of a no-drive for Nico.
 
I think it would have been a good idea to have thrown a stationary yellow on the car as a warning to the other drivers (and cleared the grid a bit more). That could soon be changed to waved or withdrawn if Nico hadn't got a gear - instead the marshal was a bit slow at getting it waved, quite a few cars had already passed.
 
As an aside, I'm feeling very old, its 32 years since Riccardo Paletti's death in these circumstances. RIP young man - we should always remember the heavy price you paid,
 
Seano

Probably not. As we can assume the other teams would have informed their drivers that Rosberg might have a problem, then showing a yellow is probably unnecessary until he actually failed to move. If they had shown a yellow earlier then it reduces the flag marshals ability to inform drivers of another car with problem. I am not sure that a stationary yellow has any meaning in F1 these days, so a waved yellow would have been required, and as one of my fellow flag marshal trainers so eloquently put it - 'you cannot wave a waved yellow'.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 24 September 2014 - 08:30.


Advertisement

#20 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 17,497 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 24 September 2014 - 08:30

It wasn't very uncommon to have a stalled car on the grid in the past. Usually the culprit waves his hands, yellow lights are shown and there is another formation lap so the car can be pushed off the grid.



#21 redreni

redreni
  • Member

  • 4,709 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 September 2014 - 11:04

The risk at the start of the formation lap should be very low, because the cars don't just react to the lights, they pull away row-by-row. So if the car ahead doesn't move, you wait to see if he's going to, then if he still doesn't move, you drive around him. Cars approaching from behind are restricted to the pit lane speed limit until they pass pole position, so even if somebody is unsighted you're not going to get a Montreal 1982 accident off the dummy grid, although admittedly with people standing at the edge of the track, any contact would be bad news and I do agree the yellow flag was slow to come out. But to expect the team to address that risk by throwing away a front row grid slot is a bit much.



#22 werks prototype

werks prototype
  • Member

  • 7,211 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 24 September 2014 - 11:28

Yes, I didn't want him there under any circumstances.

 

(I wouldn't mind if he were to bunk off, Japan too!)

 

:)



#23 maverick69

maverick69
  • Member

  • 5,975 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 24 September 2014 - 11:37

No. Because all the signals were that it was a software issue with the PCU-8D. Hence - a steering wheel change would sort things out.

 

Unfortunately, as it turns out, the bumps (amplified by the lack of the very advanced FRICS) caused unforeseen fatigue on the loom. 


Edited by maverick69, 24 September 2014 - 11:41.


#24 rich06

rich06
  • Member

  • 51 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:55

Some what technical article about NR's issue and Merc's explanation ... http://thejudge13.co...piracy-part-xx/