41 replies to this topic

[pjnoake]

Just curious are there any stats for the driver that has retired the most while in the lead of a race?

[Longtimefan]

I'd bet on Jim Clark.

[RubalSher]

In recent times, gotta be Hamilton.

[Metronazol]

Id imagine it'd be someone from the 60's/early 70s. Chris Amon springs to mind though ive no idea of his actual figures.... more Recently, the fragile Newey McLaren's must be up there, and Hamilton has had some bad luck in that regard over the years.

[Kyo]

Ayrton?

[Gilles4Ever]

Interesting one, what about someone like Prost? I seem to remember a lot of retirements from the lead in the early 80's with the first turbo cars.

[Nemo1965]

Interesting one, what about someone like Prost? I seem to remember a lot of retirements from the lead in the early 80's with the first turbo cars.

 

Out of the top of my had, Prost led 13 races of the 16-race season in 1982....only to have a mechanical problem.

[DrF]

I don't know if this is the most, but Raikkonen has had quite a few, especially in 2003 and 2005.

[D.M.N.]

Schumacher might be an interesting guess, especially in 1996.

[Disgrace]

Does his Magny-Cours formation lap blow-up even technically count?

[George Costanza]

Alain in 1982, Ayrton in 1989,  Michael in 1996, Kimi in 2003 and 2005.

 

Mika in 2000-2001?

Edited by George Costanza, 04 October 2014 - 21:14.

[William Hunt]

Probably Chris Amon, the times that he retired leading are countless

Edited by William Hunt, 04 October 2014 - 21:54.

[William Hunt]

The race with the most retirements in the lead could be Monaco 1982

[Ferrim]

I don't know if this is the most, but Raikkonen has had quite a few, especially in 2003 and 2005.

 

Not really. In 2003 he only retired from the lead once, if my memory serves me well, at the Nurburgring. IIRC he finished pretty almost every race that year, which is exactly why he was in contention until the last day in spite of winning just once.

 

In 2005 he also retired from the lead at the Nurburgring as well, but then I can't remember any other, although he had a lot of weekends destroyed by 10 place penalties because of engines blowing up during practice: France, Britain, Italy, can't be sure about Hungary. Ah, of course he also dropped out from the lead at Imola, so that would make it three between 2003 and 2005.

 

Sometimes our memory plays havoc with our facts, because (I feel) we tend to equal "sure" or "almost sure" wins lost because of reliability failures with retirements from the lead, at least that's how it works with me. Another problem comes when someone has a race-ending problem whilst in the lead, but doesn't effectively retire until a few laps later when he's no longer in the lead. This could be more or less easily taken into account for recent years, but the further to the past that we go, the more likely we will be to miss people who retired in similar circumnstances.

 

Points in case: Häkkinen in 2000 has been mentioned, and I can remember him retiring from the lead in Australia that year, but IIRC he stopped running a couple of laps after his problem began. And of course, many people remember him retiring at Indianapolis as the race that cost him the title, but that day he retired from 2nd. He was catching Schumacher at a fast rate at that moment though. I've also come across some people who remembers Trulli retiring from the lead in Austria in 1997, but he was actually running 2nd as well.

 

Someone with a few is Alesi - he's got at least three: Belgium 1991, Italy 1994 (he was no longer leading when he left the car, but he was leading the lap before so it should easily count), Italy 1995. And a funny one: Germany 1994 - he started from pole and stopped after the first corner, although I can't be sure if he suddenly slowed down from 1st (I think so) or had already been overtaken because the malfunctioning had started before (maybe it should count anyway). Oh, and Monaco 1996 is another one, so he could be up to five. He was also half a lap away from retiring in Canada 1995...    the day the poor lad had luck for like the only time in his entire career.

Edited by Ferrim, 04 October 2014 - 22:11.

[scheivlak]

Probably Chris Amon, the times that he retired leading are countless

Remarkably enough "only" 3 I think (1968 Spain, 1968 Canada, 1969 Spain). There are a lot of other GPs where he dropped back due to various mishaps but still finished (like Monza 1971 or France 1972) or could have won if his car had stayed together because his major opponents retired or crashed as well (like Spa 1968 or Monza 1968).

[Dolph]

Just curious are there any stats for the driver that has retired the most while in the lead of a race?

 

By retirements do you mean only mechanical or also crashes? If we exclude crashes do we exclude only self inflected ones (a la 1999 with Hakkinen crashing out twice and Schumi once) or also crashes due to other people (Schumacher take out from lead by Hill twice in 1995). And how should we count 1998 Spa DC-Schumi incident?

[scheivlak]

Not really. In 2003 he only retired from the lead once, if my memory serves me well, at the Nurburgring. IIRC he finished pretty almost every race that year, which is exactly why he was in contention until the last day in spite of winning just once.

 

In 2005 he also retired from the lead at the Nurburgring as well, but then I can't remember any other, although he had a lot of weekends destroyed by 10 place penalties because of engines blowing up during practice: France, Britain, Italy, can't be sure about Hungary. Ah, of course he also dropped out from the lead at Imola, so that would make it three between 2003 and 2005.

 

There was another one for Raikkonen in 2005: the German GP in Hockenheim. German tracks really look like his bogey tracks!

But yes, it seems like it's "just" those four from 2003 and 2005 for Kimi.

Edited by scheivlak, 04 October 2014 - 22:22.

[travbrad]

The race with the most retirements in the lead could be Monaco 1982

 

Indeed.  If I remember right there were about 5 different leaders in the last few laps alone.

[Nonesuch]

In recent times, gotta be Hamilton.

I had a quick look at Hamilton's retirements, and he seems to have retired from the lead in Singapore 2012 and Abu Dhabi 2012. I suppose one might add Canada 2014 under certain circumstances.

Hamilton crashed out from the (contested) lead in Brazil 2012, so that's technically a retirement.

Which did I miss? Because that list doesn't seem all that long.

Edited by Nonesuch, 04 October 2014 - 22:32.

[PlatenGlass]

I'd guess that it has to be someone with a lot of wins. Schumacher won 91 races. Everyone other than Prost has less than half of that, so people would basically need double or more the retirement rate of Schumacher to beat him. Not that that's impossible, but the fewer wins someone has, the less likely it is.

[Radion]

From the active drivers:

 

Rosberg:

Silverstone 2014

 

Vettel:

Silverstone 2013

Valencia 2012

Korea 2010

Australia 2010

 

Hamilton:

Silverstone 2013

Singapore 2012

Abu Dhabi 2012

Brasil 2012

 

Raikkonen:

Hockenheim 2005

Nurburgring 2005

Imola 2005

Nurburgrind 2003

 

Can't think of any retirements from Alonso/Webber while in the lead?

Edited by Radion, 04 October 2014 - 22:58.

[scheivlak]

I'd guess that it has to be someone with a lot of wins. Schumacher won 91 races. Everyone other than Prost has less than half of that, so people would basically need double or more the retirement rate of Schumacher to beat him. Not that that's impossible, but the fewer wins someone has, the less likely it is.

A quick scan gives 14 retirements from the lead for Ayrton Senna. I would be surprised if Michael matches that, if only because of the immense reliability in his Ferrari years.

[scheivlak]

From the active drivers:

 

Hamilton:

Australia 2014 (?)

Belgium 2014 (?)

 

Doesn't count of course.

 

It's about retiring from the lead - see my comments about Chris Amon.

Otherwise you'ld have endless discussions and preferences. Fine, but that should be another thread.

Edited by scheivlak, 04 October 2014 - 22:49.

[Disgrace]

Vettel:

Valencia 2012

Korea 2010

 

Also Australia 2010 and Silverstone 2013. How about Turkey 2010 as well, given he was a wheel ahead at the time of his collision with Webber? It's worrying that despite his recent domination of F1, it could have been so much worse/better.

[Nonesuch]

Hamilton:
Australia 2014 (?)
Belgium 2014 (?)
Silverstone 2013
Singapore 2012
Abu Dhabi 2012
Brasil 2012 (?)

Hamilton did not retire at all in Great Britain 2013, he finished 4th.

He retired from 5th in Australia 2014, on lap 2.

He retired from 16th in Belgium 2014, on lap 38.
 

Can't think of any retirements from Alonso/Webber while in the lead?

Alonso disappears from first in the lap chart during Hungary 2006, but that was because he made a pitstop and the team messed up the wheel nut.

He crashed out from the lead in Canada 2006 2005 (thanks to Disgrace for the correction).

Edited by Nonesuch, 05 October 2014 - 07:38.

[Radion]

Also Australia 2010 and Silverstone 2013. How about Turkey 2010 as well, given he was a wheel ahead at the time of his collision with Webber? It's worrying that despite his recent domination of F1, it could have been so much worse/better.

Totally forgott about those! But I don't count Turkey 2010 as I think it was Vettel who moved into Webber.

 

Hamilton did not retire at all in Great Britain 2013, he came 4th.

He retired from 5th in Australia 2014, on lap 2.

He retired from 16th in Belgium 2014, on lap 38.

Fair enough.

 

Doesn't count of course.

 

It's about retiring from the lead - see my comments about Chris Amon.

Otherwise you'ld have endless discussions and preferences. Fine, but that should be another thread.

Also fair enough.

 

With the updated list it looks way more even between the top dogs.

Edited by Radion, 04 October 2014 - 22:58.

[KavB]

From the active drivers:

 

Rosberg:

Silverstone 2014

 

Vettel:

Silverstone 2013

Valencia 2012

Korea 2010

Australia 2010

 

Hamilton:

Silverstone 2013

Singapore 2012

Abu Dhabi 2012

Brasil 2012

 

Raikkonen:

Hockenheim 2005

Nurburgring 2005

Imola 2005

Nurburgrind 2003

 

Can't think of any retirements from Alonso/Webber while in the lead?

Raikkonen crashed from the lead in the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix I believe.

 

I believe in terms of mechanical failures, Vettel and Raikkonen have the most followed by Hamilton. It's interesting to see that Alonso won 5 of the races listed above. Guess you gotta be there to pick up the pieces. 

[Disgrace]

Totally forgott about those! But I don't count Turkey 2010 as I think it was Vettel who moved into Webber.

 

I don't think this statistical analysis is interested in the source of the retirement. The OP didn't specify "mechanical" retirements.

 

He crashed out from the lead in Canada 2006.

 

2005. 

 

 

Points in case: Häkkinen in 2000 has been mentioned, and I can remember him retiring from the lead in Australia that year, but IIRC he stopped running a couple of laps after his problem began.

 

This Australian retirement is in fact 1999. He retired from the lead outright in 2000. Mika had loads of heartbreaking retirements from P1, not even including those problems which lost him the lead prior to a later retirement (Australia, Hockenheim, Silverstone '99). He was even classified after that final lap clutch failure in Barcelona '01. His list:

 

Silverstone '97.

Austria '97.

Luxembourg '97.

Imola '99.

Italy '99.

Australia '00.

[DrF]

Raikkonen crashed from the lead in the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix I believe.

I believe in terms of mechanical failures, Vettel and Raikkonen have the most followed by Hamilton. It's interesting to see that Alonso won 5 of the races listed above. Guess you gotta be there to pick up the pieces.

Alonso partly owes his 2005 WDC to Mercedes (and his skill behind the wheel, of course)!

[Ferrim]

 

This Australian retirement is in fact 1999. He retired from the lead outright in 2000.

 

 

I stand corrected. Thank you, I had mixed the two.

 

 

I'd guess that it has to be someone with a lot of wins. Schumacher won 91 races. Everyone other than Prost has less than half of that, so people would basically need double or more the retirement rate of Schumacher to beat him. Not that that's impossible, but the fewer wins someone has, the less likely it is.

 

Maybe Schumacher won that many because he didn't retire frequently? He had no failures between Germany 2001 and the day he lost the eighth title at Suzuka... retiring from the lead, indeed.

 

But as has been mentioned we should also include non-mechanical related retirements. Which should definitely include:

Monaco 2004 (IIRC he had yet to pit)

Spa 1998

Jerez 1997

Monaco 1996

Hungary 1995 (not sure but I believe he lost the win to Hill, maybe he was running 2nd?)

Silverstone 1995

Adelaide 1994

Monaco 1993

 

And I must have forgotten a few more. Those plus Suzuka 2006 and we are up to eight, nine if I'm correct on Hungary. If we include formation laps, France 1996 should be added as well.

[Disgrace]

He had no failures between Germany 2001 and the day he lost the eighth title at Suzuka... retiring from the lead, indeed.

 

If I may once again, Bahrain 2005.    He had also lost to lead to Hill prior to his Monaco '96 crash.

[Ferrim]

If I may once again, Bahrain 2005.    He had also lost to lead to Hill prior to his Monaco '96 crash.

 

And you are absolutely correct on both. I'm not having by best night

[Disgrace]

Here's a Schumi list based upon memory and his Wikipedia table of results which I've never found inaccurate. I should say I don't count Jerez '97 as he was in a position to hit JV in the sidepod with his front left wheel. Could be one or two from '92 or '93 missing.

 

Monaco '93.

Australia '94.

Silverstone '95.

Silverstone '97.

Belgium '98.

Canada '99.

Monaco '00.

Monaco '04.

Japan '06.

[HoldenRT]

From the active drivers:

 

Rosberg:

Silverstone 2014

 

Vettel:

Silverstone 2013

Valencia 2012

Korea 2010

Australia 2010

 

Hamilton:

Silverstone 2013

Singapore 2012

Abu Dhabi 2012

Brasil 2012

 

Raikkonen:

Hockenheim 2005

Nurburgring 2005

Imola 2005

Nurburgrind 2003

 

Can't think of any retirements from Alonso/Webber while in the lead?

 

Yeah Kimi had a shocking run in 2005 because they were all within the space of a few months.

[Atreiu]

Senna had ten plus at least two races where he ran out of fuel when leading to coast and DNF not from the lead.

[RubalSher]

I had a quick look at Hamilton's retirements, and he seems to have retired from the lead in Singapore 2012 and Abu Dhabi 2012. I suppose one might add Canada 2014 under certain circumstances.

Hamilton crashed out from the (contested) lead in Brazil 2012, so that's technically a retirement.

Which did I miss? Because that list doesn't seem all that long.

 

I dont remember all but the following come to mind... Silverstone 2013, Spa 2014. Of course these  are not retirements from the lead but he did lose his lead through no fault of his own. Someone compiled a list and it seemed to be a dozen or more races.

[Nonesuch]

2005. 

You're right, thanks for the correction.

[scheivlak]

Raikkonen crashed from the lead in the 2006 Hungarian Grand Prix I believe.

 

 

No, he was second at that moment.

[taran]

I think there are only two logical pretenders to this undesirable throne: the winner should be either Jean-Pierre Jabouille or Rene Arnoux, both of Renault turbo fame (the unreliable years).....

[Zava]

also, Vettel 2011 abu dhabi, if that counts - even though he was last when he limped in to the pits at the end of lap 1, with a broken right rear suspension caused by (?) the puncture in the first few corners, he got the problem while leading, and going to the pits was just a question of "where to park".

[JtP2]

The quote button doesn't seem to work on my computer.

Re Senna running out of fuel. Possibly if he had driven in a straight line and not added to his race distance by weaving, the amount of fuel in the car would have been sufficient.

 

Done a bit of checking and my limited research and memory gives Clark 6 retirements. 62 France and South Africa, 63 Monaco, 64 France, 67 France and Germany. So that's 6 in 72 races. Does Mexico 64 count, which brings it up to 7? 

Edited by JtP2, 05 October 2014 - 14:26.

[Collombin]

We've covered this topic before, not all that long ago.

I think I counted Senna as having the most, but in percentage terms I think Moss retired from the lead 11 times in his 66 starts.