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Doomsday scenario - the inadequacy if the F1 points system.


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#451 OO7

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 20:17

If that was to happen I would stop watching F1 forever.

Come on now HFb, no you wouldn't!!!

It'll start of as an itch that gradually becomes more irritating as the unveiling of the 2015 cars looms.  After some sneeky glances at the new cars, when testing rolls around you'll be searching for laptimes, news and other updates.  FP1 in Aus will have you glued to the screen barking at anyone who even dares to distract your attention.



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#452 SpartanChas

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 20:42

Yeah, but this would just be a short "Nooooooooo! wtf did just happen?" moment... Watching Nico for the entire 55 laps, nursing his car to a safe win, would have a whole nother quality   ;)

 

Or if Hamilton dominates half of the race from pole and retires. Ricciardo inherits the lead having qualified ahead of Rosberg, who made a mistake in both Q3 runs, and started in P3. He makes numerous mistakes trying to keep up with Ricciardo, is overtaken by Bottas ten laps from home. He throws everything he can back to retake P2, but whatever he can come up with, Valtteri has an answer for. Bottas then retires with an engine failure, Rosberg limps home in second and wins the championship for that lame effort.

 

I wouldn't stop watching F1 but...  :cry:


Edited by SpartanChas, 04 November 2014 - 20:50.


#453 RubalSher

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 20:53

Yep it is scary that all Nico needs is a P2 in the remaining two races if Lewis has a DNF in AD + a win in Brazil.



#454 Longtimefan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:04

A part of me wants Nico to win the WDC on double points. 

 

(now before you hurl rotten fruit at me, at least see my point)

 

Double points is stupid, its wrong its lame..  I think that most of us can agree on this.   I'm not a Nico fan at all, never have been but I feel if he won the WDC with double points it would show exactly why double points are stupid and wrong!  if that happened, I really can't see them doing it again next year, it'll be removed.

 

I don't have any ill feeling towards Lewis but Nico winning would really make a total mockery of the sport and 'double points' and stop it from happening again.



#455 GoldenColt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:09

A part of me wants Nico to win the WDC on double points. 

 

(now before you hurl rotten fruit at me, at least see my point)

 

Double points is stupid, its wrong its lame..  I think that most of us can agree on this.   I'm not a Nico fan at all, never have been but I feel if he won the WDC with double points it would show exactly why double points are stupid and wrong!  if that happened, I really can't see them doing it again next year, it'll be removed.

 

I don't have any ill feeling towards Lewis but Nico winning would really make a total mockery of the sport and 'double points' and stop it from happening again.

 

I really don't think that the double points-rule should be banned by destroying a drivers brilliant effort and success throughout a season and hand the WDC to a much less deserving driver. I get your point, but there should be other, less cruel ways to get rid of this rule. That is of course if we could ever assume that the people in charge have still some reasonable thought-process left which hasn't been erased by their primitive greed for money.

 

The scenario you're bringing up would be a lose-lose-lose situation. Firstly for the sport, secondly for Hamilton and thirdly for Rosberg too.


Edited by GoldenColt, 04 November 2014 - 21:15.


#456 OO7

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:13

A part of me wants Nico to win the WDC on double points. 

 

(now before you hurl rotten fruit at me, at least see my point)

 

Double points is stupid, its wrong its lame..  I think that most of us can agree on this.   I'm not a Nico fan at all, never have been but I feel if he won the WDC with double points it would show exactly why double points are stupid and wrong!  if that happened, I really can't see them doing it again next year, it'll be removed.

 

I don't have any ill feeling towards Lewis but Nico winning would really make a total mockery of the sport and 'double points' and stop it from happening again.

To the first bolded, no thanks.  To the second, it is already obvious how ridiculous the double points rule is and it won't be used next year.  It is no longer necessary for the doomsday scenario to play out to see how silly the double points are.



#457 Longtimefan

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:17

To the first bolded, no thanks.  To the second, it is already obvious how ridiculous the double points rule is and it won't be used next year.  It is no longer necessary for the doomsday scenario to play out to see how silly the double points are.

I hope you're right :)



#458 jestaudio

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:17

Should Rosberg win due to double points and lets face it with less than half the wins of his team mate and being generally unable to beat him even when starting on pole, then plenty of folk will walk away from F1, its nothing to do with driver partisanship, the WDC should go to the driver who wins races not the first of the losing drivers



#459 topical

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:18

A part of me wants Nico to win the WDC on double points. 

 

(now before you hurl rotten fruit at me, at least see my point)

 

Double points is stupid, its wrong its lame..  I think that most of us can agree on this.   I'm not a Nico fan at all, never have been but I feel if he won the WDC with double points it would show exactly why double points are stupid and wrong!  if that happened, I really can't see them doing it again next year, it'll be removed.

 

I don't have any ill feeling towards Lewis but Nico winning would really make a total mockery of the sport and 'double points' and stop it from happening again.

 

 

Same here. No doubt Hamilton deserves the title (in the sense that he only had one competitor all year, and has dominated far more than the points suggest) but will laugh my ass off if Rosberg wins on double points, as it will show once and for all that the fossils running this sport have to go and get replaced by younger, smarter people.



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#460 RottenAli

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 21:36

Fairly sure of my maths on this but check... Lewis poles, fastest lap and wins in Brazil and Rosberg is only a distant 3rd. Lewis poles, fastest lap retires from the lead on the last lap in AD and Rosberg limps home in 2nd, Nico wins the WDC by just 2 points. Double points is a massive fail.

If extra points are to be gained at races then fastest lap needs reflecting in the points somehow. If the 25 points for a win holds ( and I still like 9 6 4 3 2 1) then how about 24 points for a win boosted to 25 if that driver were also holding the fastest lap. Second needs to score less in the future. Currently 18 is too close to 25 so I suggest it be 16 and if the second place driver really be the quicker then that extra point really starts to mean more. 3rd pays 12 points so 2x 3rd is equal to a win. Other placings being 9 6 4 3 2 1 to close out the top nine. All cars that are classified shall be awarded a digital point, in order .9 .8 .7 .6 .5 .4 .3 .2 and those (if classified) 18th or lower shall get 0.1 points no matter what order they finish.

Constructors points shall only be awarded to the highest team car in the finishing order in quatities of 9 6 4 3 2 1.

Edited by RottenAli, 04 November 2014 - 22:12.


#461 ensign14

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 22:17

Or if Hamilton dominates half of the race from pole and retires. Ricciardo inherits the lead having qualified ahead of Rosberg, who made a mistake in both Q3 runs, and started in P3. He makes numerous mistakes trying to keep up with Ricciardo, is overtaken by Bottas ten laps from home. He throws everything he can back to retake P2, but whatever he can come up with, Valtteri has an answer for. Bottas then retires with an engine failure, Rosberg limps home in second and wins the championship for that lame effort.

 

How about: Rosberg screws up qualifying at Abu Dhabi and starts last.  Hamilton starts from pole and marches to victory.  Rosberg spends the entire race spinning and is stone last.  In desperation, with 10 laps to go, he pits for a tyre change.  3 seconds later, Maldonado's battle with Perez and sanity goes the way everyone would expect.  In the ensuing shemozzle the safety car goes out, everyone pits, bar Rosberg who has of course already pitted.  Rosberg ends up in 1st behind the safety car, Mercedes has a problem with its wheelguns, probably because Rosberg drove over it, Hamilton's pit is a disaster, he comes out dead last, and then a sandstorm comes in before they go to green, causing the race to be flagged...



#462 GoldenColt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 22:20

How about: Rosberg screws up qualifying at Abu Dhabi and starts last.  Hamilton starts from pole and marches to victory.  Rosberg spends the entire race spinning and is stone last.  In desperation, with 10 laps to go, he pits for a tyre change.  3 seconds later, Maldonado's battle with Perez and sanity goes the way everyone would expect.  In the ensuing shemozzle the safety car goes out, everyone pits, bar Rosberg who has of course already pitted.  Rosberg ends up in 1st behind the safety car, Mercedes has a problem with its wheelguns, probably because Rosberg drove over it, Hamilton's pit is a disaster, he comes out dead last, and then a sandstorm comes in before they go to green, causing the race to be flagged...

 

How long did it take you to come up with this? :eek: :up:



#463 RubalSher

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 22:44

Question: With a grid of 18 cars, assume 9 cars DNF. Will the car that DNFed last still get a point or not? Assume 90% race distance is not covered by this car.



#464 RottenAli

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 22:58

A driver only get points if he / she completes at least 90% distance.

Edited by RottenAli, 04 November 2014 - 23:16.


#465 hittheapex

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 05:52

...it is already obvious how ridiculous the double points rule is and it won't be used next year.  It is no longer necessary for the doomsday scenario to play out to see how silly the double points are.

I'm not so sure. It was obvious when the idea was mooted that this could happen and how stupid the idea was, yet it went through. I think there's at least a 50% chance of double points staying if Hamilton takes the title. Of course I'd rather see him take the title and we lose double points anyway but the rule making and decisions have never been crazier nor more confounding. Assume common sense, the obvious and "the right thing," at your peril.


Edited by hittheapex, 05 November 2014 - 05:53.


#466 hollowstar

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 06:05

How about: Rosberg screws up qualifying at Abu Dhabi and starts last.  Hamilton starts from pole and marches to victory.  Rosberg spends the entire race spinning and is stone last.  In desperation, with 10 laps to go, he pits for a tyre change.  3 seconds later, Maldonado's battle with Perez and sanity goes the way everyone would expect.  In the ensuing shemozzle the safety car goes out, everyone pits, bar Rosberg who has of course already pitted.  Rosberg ends up in 1st behind the safety car, Mercedes has a problem with its wheelguns, probably because Rosberg drove over it, Hamilton's pit is a disaster, he comes out dead last, and then a sandstorm comes in before they go to green, causing the race to be flagged...

 

A huge sandstorm is a good idea. It could halt the race before lap 27, so only half the double points would be awarded  :smoking:



#467 OO7

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 06:19

How about: Rosberg screws up qualifying at Abu Dhabi and starts last.  Hamilton starts from pole and marches to victory.  Rosberg spends the entire race spinning and is stone last.  In desperation, with 10 laps to go, he pits for a tyre change.  3 seconds later, Maldonado's battle with Perez and sanity goes the way everyone would expect.  In the ensuing shemozzle the safety car goes out, everyone pits, bar Rosberg who has of course already pitted.  Rosberg ends up in 1st behind the safety car, Mercedes has a problem with its wheelguns, probably because Rosberg drove over it, Hamilton's pit is a disaster, he comes out dead last, and then a sandstorm comes in before they go to green, causing the race to be flagged...

I like the bolded part and considering Hamilton 'marches to victory' the story ends there.  You probably burnt 250 calories typing the rest of your post which may or may not be a good thing.



#468 sopa

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:04

That's not linear, that's exponential: 2^n. 5-4-3-2-1 would be linear.

 

I think your system would be closer to Bernie's medals than to the current system.

 

 

I propose the golden sequence: 144, 89, 55, 34, 21, 13, 8, 5, 3, 2, 1.

 

 

In the real world it's always going to be a compromise between show and fairness. Longer the season, smaller the gaps need to be, to keep winner open (assuming no double point or playoff nonsense). It's a way of screwing the actual best competitor.

 

Nascar has always used nearly linear system with their 40 race season.

 

 

I was thinking about it and while we are into mathematics, I thought I'd prefer a slightly less steep sequence system for points distribution.

 

1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 9, 13, 19, 28, 41, 60

 

Or even why not

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10, 14, 19, 26, 36, 50



#469 Paincake

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:16

The minds of the masses has been prepared for any such scenario's. I would say don't get too comfortable, and expect a Nico win, right untill the last finish line.