19 replies to this topic

[KeithMM]

Should race control enforce a minimum tyre  for the track conditions. I.e marshalls  can report standing/flowing water to the stewards and ex driver steward can recommend the minimum type of tyre that all teams should be using. i.e if its raining the minimum would be intermediates and if it gets worse the minimum  gets changed to wets and if it gets even worse then bring the safety car out. At the moment teams seem to accept  losing time for fear that the will lose even more when a safety car comes out and they'd already changed tyres and they can make up all the lost time  behind the safety car.

 

      By having a minimum tyre for the conditions, teams will have to keep racing , they won't get penalized for changing to an appropriate tyre relative to other teams who wait for a safety car after an accident. If this is combined with the marshal post to marshall post  slow speed areas  around accidents drivers  aren't penalized for driving well because another driver crashes. As conditions improve race control can change the minimum tyre  the other way earlier than they would probably safely be run so that teams/drivers  can still have the opportunity to try the alternative tyre and benefit from it. 

 

     I think that this could mean better wet weather racing  rather than teamshoping to ain by running behind a safety car.

 

[SenorSjon]

No.

 

It happened before and it was a farce (Korea 07?). I hate it when people stop thinking for themselves and are neutered by rules for everything. 

 

And the wet tire is a SC-tire already. Half the field on wet tires? Then SC comes out due to whining drivers. The grid is paid 2-300m a year and they can't seem to race in the rain.

[Nonesuch]

It happened before and it was a farce (Korea 07?).

Right - but, small correction: it was actually in Japan, at Fuji. Ferrari was penalized for not using the FIA-approved tyre. The first race in Korea was in 2010.

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

No, because for example at Spa, half the track could be quite wet and the other half be bone dry. How do you then deal with that situation? You can't say to the teams "half the track is sodden so you have to put full wets on now and just suffer on the dry parts because we tell you to". Plus you don't know how long the rain will last, how long it'll take for the track to dry out. Can you imagine being told to put inters on on lap 20, then on lap 25 told to put full wets on, then on lap 30 telling the team the track is fine for inters but then being told by the team "you have to stay on the full wets until race control tell us we can change to inters if we want"? It'd be a total farce.

[Gyno]

Also we would not see drivers taking a risk with going for inter tires earlier then others or to slick tires from inter.

 

You know like Button likes to do and almost always get it right and overtakes lots of cars.

[jee]

Right - but, small correction: it was actually in Japan, at Fuji. Ferrari was penalized for not using the FIA-approved tyre. The first race in Korea was in 2010.

That rule is still in place that during a start behind the safety car the wet tyre must be used.

[KeithMM]

Also we would not see drivers taking a risk with going for inter tires earlier then others or to slick tires from inter.

 

You know like Button likes to do and almost always get it right and overtakes lots of cars.

did you read the last part. the minimum  tyre would be altered as conditions improved before they would be safe to run  so that drivers like button would still have the chance to swap early and benefit from swapping.

 

No, because for example at Spa, half the track could be quite wet and the other half be bone dry. How do you then deal with that situation? You can't say to the teams "half the track is sodden so you have to put full wets on now and just suffer on the dry parts because we tell you to". Plus you don't know how long the rain will last, how long it'll take for the track to dry out. Can you imagine being told to put inters on on lap 20, then on lap 25 told to put full wets on, then on lap 30 telling the team the track is fine for inters but then being told by the team "you have to stay on the full wets until race control tell us we can change to inters if we want"? It'd be a total farce.

Thats why the exdriver steward would be advising on the minimum tyre based on actual  and forecast weather conditions. Teams have access to the weather forecasts as well and if they know that full wets will be needed in 5 laps they'd have the option of going straight for the full wets and avoid the time penalty for a second pit stop.. at the moment they stay on slicks and hope someone else crashes and the safety car is deployed so they can change tyre and not lose time and be back behind the leader. Take the safety car cushion away from them and teams will have to race  in the wet , not follow the safety car and close back up on the leaders and people in front of them.

Edited by KeithMM, 06 October 2014 - 10:30.

[275 GTB-4]

If you think you are going to stop accidents by this method...think again...sorry

[SenorSjon]

You must know by now that racecontrol is always to late. So I foresee intermediate running on wet tires and vice versa.

[Jackmancer]

What about a limiter, like in the pits, for yellow flag zones? Something like 50% of the car power.

[MikeTekRacing]

No. Let them make their choices and race. They are fully aware of what happens to be on the wrong tyre (may that be too wet or too dry for the conditions).

[KeithMM]

If you think you are going to stop accidents by this method...think again...sorry

 

the point is not to stop accidents , it is to promote racing and stop the safety car being used as a crutch to fall back on. The  safety car should be there for when its too dangerous to race ( in which case you could argue to just red flag the race) . if you take the safety car out of the race and use it as a position of last resort, teams losing time on the wrong tyres will have to change tyres , not wait for a safety car to be deployed, put on correct tyres and then catch up all the lost time  whilst behind the safety car.

[SenorSjon]

And you wouldn't see Kimi eating another Magnum.

[Kalmake]

Sometimes the conditions are such that intermediate becomes the better choice before visibility is acceptable.

 

They should red flag before starting the race proper. That way everyone can choose the tyre for the present condition, instead of hoping to be right when Charlie decides to take SC in.

[doc83]

What about a limiter, like in the pits, for yellow flag zones? Something like 50% of the car power.

 

Instead of SC race control could order to use the limiter for couple of laps. The gaps between the cars would remain the same. They would just go around the circuit 100 km/h.

[Jackmancer]

Instead of SC race control could order to use the limiter for couple of laps. The gaps between the cars would remain the same. They would just go around the circuit 100 km/h.

 

Yes but the point of the SC is to have 'gaps', so they can have a truck on the track or something, or clear up debris. 

 

Such a limiter would apply only for a certain sector, without need for SC.

[alfa1]

What about a limiter, like in the pits, for yellow flag zones? Something like 50% of the car power.

 

So instead of feathering the throttle lightly going around Dunlop in the wet, they'll just push the pedal down fully instead.

...then spin the car instantly when full power clicks back in.

[doc83]

Yes but the point of the SC is to have 'gaps', so they can have a truck on the track or something, or clear up debris. 

 

Such a limiter would apply only for a certain sector, without need for SC.

 

I know. SC is good when you need to clear the track. But when there’s a car outside the track (just like yesterday) limiter would be enough. You don’t need to bunch up the cars, just make them drive slower/safer.  

 

Limiter for just one sector would be harder to enforce (the exact spot when you turn it on and off). It would be easier to have it on for a number of laps.  Then at the end of  “limiter period” countdown timer on the steering wheel would appear.

[Jackmancer]

So instead of feathering the throttle lightly going around Dunlop in the wet, they'll just push the pedal down fully instead.

...then spin the car instantly when full power clicks back in.

 

That's a minor detail - a driver could use his/her brains or team can implement software for gradual opening of power.

Edited by Jackmancer, 06 October 2014 - 13:53.

[Briz]

I support the speed limiter idea as another alternative that works great in most cases, of course sometimes SC would still need to be deployed. I think it is actually fine (and more consistent/fair) to enforce the speed limiter for the whole track instead of just one sector