102 replies to this topic

[noikeee]

In a weekend when we had silly season going into overdrive, then a race finishing in the worst possible way with Bianchi's serious accident, other subjects that usually would get lots of attention during quiet periods have gone under the radar. Such a subject is the one seat we now know is wide open as Daniil Kvyat has been promoted - who will be Max Verstappen's team-mate for next season?

 

My money's on Sainz Jr but we know Red Bull like a surprise. Lynn's doing well too and is a strong candidate. Vergne is clearly the superior driver of all (arguably even to the promoted  Kvyat at the moment!), and would be valuable as a measuring stick to Verstappen, but not sure how could they save face after basically having announced he's free to go. Others are far less likely but not impossible - I've added to the poll the surprisingly snubbed last year Felix da Costa whose momentum has gone with a poor DTM season, and Gasly and Mardenborough who are part of Junior Team too but seemingly less ready than the other candidates. Then there's the chance from someone from completely out of left field such as a paydriver buying the seat, it's never really happened in the open but we've had drivers like Luis Razia a few months ago claiming Toro Rosso seats have been for sale for ages - you'd think people like Felipe Nasr and other GP2 randoms could be interested.

 

I'm not sure at this stage Helmut Marko and the rest of the Red Bull management have any idea what they're going to do with this one...

[MastaKink]

Sainz Jr.

[tkulla]

How about a shoutout in a two year old car? I miss those days.

[Disgrace]

Alonso. It has to be Sainz Jr. if he wins the F3.5 title, which he should. Would his management allow him to be shafted from an F1 drive despite winning that title?

[scheivlak]

How about a shoutout in a two year old car? I miss those days.

Pre-2014 cars don't make much sense now.

[noikeee]

How about a shoutout in a two year old car? I miss those days.

 

Pizzonia vs Heidfeld! Button vs Junqueira!

 

Maybe they still do it but on the simulator now.

[Thespianoid]

In a weekend when we had silly season going into overdrive, then a race finishing in the worst possible way with Bianchi's serious accident, other subjects that usually would get lots of attention during quiet periods have gone under the radar. Such a subject is the one seat we now know is wide open as Daniil Kvyat has been promoted - who will be Max Verstappen's team-mate for next season?

 

My money's on Sainz Jr but we know Red Bull like a surprise. Lynn's doing well too and is a strong candidate. Vergne is clearly the superior driver of all (arguably even to the promoted  Kvyat at the moment!), and would be valuable as a measuring stick to Verstappen, but not sure how could they save face after basically having announced he's free to go. Others are far less likely but not impossible - I've added to the poll the surprisingly snubbed last year Felix da Costa whose momentum has gone with a poor DTM season, and Gasly and Mardenborough who are part of Junior Team too but seemingly less ready than the other candidates. 

 

Jann Mardenborough isn't officially part of the Junior Team. He's likely got a factory contract, much like Dennis Olsen. They could both be upped to Junior Team members next year or the year after, but who knows with Helmut Marko. 

[teejay]

Has to be Carlos.

 

JEV will be seething - but that's what you get for acting like the world owes you something.

[SR388]

Can it only go to a junior driver? What about jenson? He would have to swallow his pride, but that things about as decent as the Macca.

[HoldenRT]

I think it should be JEV but it'll probably be another one of the juniors.  I haven't seen much of Sainz Jr but it seems he is the next in line.

 

I think it would be depressing if it were Jenson, but if he loves F1 enough that he'd want to stick around with STR, it'd be fun to see and they'd benefit his experience.

[Zava]

has to be Sainz.

 

Vergne is really unlucky, though - had Seb announced his departure before Marko getting Verstappen on board, Vergne could've even get the promotion. what a difference a month can make...

[TheFish]

I'd keep Vergne for another year as a testing stick for Max, but after announcing he is leaving I expect Sainz to get the other seat. It won't be anyone experienced, especially not JB. You don't want to destroy a 17 year olds confidence.

[AJFIN]

Should be Vergne.

Could be Sainz.

Knowing Red bull, probably will be Gasly. 

[Mart280]

I reckon JEV might get a reprieve, two rookies could be a gamble too far.

[prostspeed]

Sainz or de Costa. 

[Kristian]

I think sensibly they should put JEV in to be a mentor to Verstappen. 

 

But knowing STR, they will promote Sainz Jr. I won't begrudge him though as he is clearly talented, but its a massive risk.

 

If that's the case, the average driver age in all Red Bull cars next season will be 20.5 years! 

[apoka]

Voted Sainz, but I think Vergne will find another seat in F1 (surprisingly at McLaren after they already sacked K-Mag and Alonso has a fallout with them right before officially signing the contract  SCNR).

 

[sopa]

I wouldn't rule out Lynn though everybody mentions Sainz. We got such surprise last year as well, when GP3 champion beat the FR3.5 driver to the seat.

 

But what is more interesting is how that second driver compares to Verstappen. Because this second driver knows fully well that basically Verstappen had been preferred to him. Had Vettel not moved away from RBR and vacated the seat to Kvyat, neither Sainz nor Lynn would have made it into F1. If this guy can beat Verstappen, it would show Toro Rosso's priority in terms of signing for 2015 at the very least was wrong, even if Max could have more long-term potential.

[balage06]

Gasly just posted this article on his FB page:

http://www.paris-nor...15#.VDO7BRAniSo

 

He seems pretty confident about his chances. He says his future depends on how his last races will go in WSR and GP2.

[noikeee]

What concerns me about Sainz Jr is that he's basically been pretty underwhelming almost every time before this season. Very far from Kvyat on points last year on GP3, as team-mates, and it's not like Kvyat had more experience. Evidently Red Bull's patience with him paid off as he's suddenly had a very good year, so they saw potential in him before and now it's been confirmed, but I can't help but still be a little suspicious. If Red Bull had full confidence in him they would've given him a glimpse of F1 already, maybe a free practice session, not overlooked him for a 17 year-old (even if admitedly a freakishly good 17 year-old). Did he do well at the F1 young drivers test, I can't remember?

 

And you look at the WSR table this season and a younger, less experienced Gasly's not too far behind him in points, although in wins it's 7-0 and poles 7-1 Sainz's way.

 

I think Sainz's the obvious better qualified candidate but really wouldn't rule out a surprise at all.

[Showty]

I would say the logical and fair choice would be Carlos Sainz Jr.

 

So the vacant would probably go for somebody else.

[sopa]

What concerns me about Sainz Jr is that he's basically been pretty underwhelming almost every time before this season. Very far from Kvyat on points last year on GP3, as team-mates, and it's not like Kvyat had more experience. Evidently Red Bull's patience with him paid off as he's suddenly had a very good year, so they saw potential in him before and now it's been confirmed, but I can't help but still be a little suspicious. If Red Bull had full confidence in him they would've given him a glimpse of F1 already, maybe a free practice session, not overlooked him for a 17 year-old (even if admitedly a freakishly good 17 year-old). Did he do well at the F1 young drivers test, I can't remember?

 

And you look at the WSR table this season and a younger, less experienced Gasly's not too far behind him in points, although in wins it's 7-0 and poles 7-1 Sainz's way.

 

I think Sainz's the obvious better qualified candidate but really wouldn't rule out a surprise at all.

 

We have seen that Red Bull is pretty ruthless in promoting drivers. If they have any doubts a driver isn't really very good, he'll be sent away. Including Alguersuari at tender age of 21, and others.

 

If Red Bull realizes that Sainz jr may not be quite as talented as Gasly or Lynn, he won't get F1 chance and will be pushed aside. It doesn't matter if Sainz right now performs better. I gather that Red Bull always looks long-term, which also the signing of Verstappen indicates. So nothing is clear-cut yet...

[HoldenRT]

I'd keep Vergne for another year as a testing stick for Max, but after announcing he is leaving I expect Sainz to get the other seat. It won't be anyone experienced, especially not JB. You don't want to destroy a 17 year olds confidence.

 

IMO it's better for his confidence to have an experienced teammate and a well setup car, and a good development track.. than to beat another rookie and both have no idea how to set the car up.  Having a poorly setup car isn't good for confidence either.  A big part of being a rookie is learning from your teammate.  Even Lewis and Nico learn from each other even this season, despite being in the sport many years.
 

[BadVoice]

Alonso? 

[Spillage]

Well, really it should be Sainz, but knowing RB it'll be Gasly or somebody even further away. Hell, at this rate they'll be employing somebody who hasn't been born yet to drive the car in 2015.

[bub]

What concerns me about Sainz Jr is that he's basically been pretty underwhelming almost every time before this season. Very far from Kvyat on points last year on GP3, as team-mates, and it's not like Kvyat had more experience. Evidently Red Bull's patience with him paid off as he's suddenly had a very good year, so they saw potential in him before and now it's been confirmed, but I can't help but still be a little suspicious. If Red Bull had full confidence in him they would've given him a glimpse of F1 already, maybe a free practice session, not overlooked him for a 17 year-old (even if admitedly a freakishly good 17 year-old). Did he do well at the F1 young drivers test, I can't remember?

 

And you look at the WSR table this season and a younger, less experienced Gasly's not too far behind him in points, although in wins it's 7-0 and poles 7-1 Sainz's way.

 

I think Sainz's the obvious better qualified candidate but really wouldn't rule out a surprise at all.

 

Really? On paper his record in the junior formula looks just as good as Kvyat's. That one year of GP3 looks like the only real blemish.

[noikeee]

So it seems like Franz Tost said there's 99% odds Sainz will get the seat... that settles it then.

 

Source (portuguese): http://autosport.pt/...o-rosso=f127235

[tkulla]

I would guess that the plan as of right now is to develop Max into a mega-star. I would bet there's a marketing plan in place to do just that (that's what Red Bull does best). So the choice of second driver isn't necessarily who deserves it most and is most ready - more likely it's who can we put next to Max that will do a decent job but not dent his reputation or confidence. Now it could be that Max is just so good that it won't matter, but at 17 I think it would be best for him if he didn't have too much pressure from a teammate. Sainz looks like the perfect candidate to me. He'll do a solid job but won't trouble Verstappen much in the raw speed department.

Edited by tkulla, 07 October 2014 - 16:38.

[sopa]

I would guess that the plan as of right now is to develop Max into a mega-star. I would bet there's a marketing plan in place to do just that (that's what Red Bull does best). So the choice of second driver isn't necessarily who deserves it most and is most ready - more likely it's who can we put next to Max that will do a decent job but not dent his reputation or confidence. Now it could be that Max is just so good that it won't matter, but at 17 I think it would be best for him if he didn't have too much pressure from a teammate. Sainz looks like the perfect candidate to me. He'll do a solid job but won't trouble Verstappen must in the raw speed department.

 

Ironically Vergne would be the best team-mate for the development of Verstappen. Vergne is already experienced, can help with setup and be a mentor. And Verstappen would have little pressure, since Vergne would be the team leader and Max wouldn't be expected to beat him straightaway.

[GhostR]

Should be Vergne.

Could be Sainz.

Knowing Red bull, probably will be Gasly. 

 

I voted for Gasly. Vergne's been shown the door, and Sainz has already been overlooked twice now. Gasly's not as experienced, and yet has managed to stay in the title fight until very recently.

[HoldenRT]

I would guess that the plan as of right now is to develop Max into a mega-star. I would bet there's a marketing plan in place to do just that (that's what Red Bull does best). So the choice of second driver isn't necessarily who deserves it most and is most ready - more likely it's who can we put next to Max that will do a decent job but not dent his reputation or confidence. Now it could be that Max is just so good that it won't matter, but at 17 I think it would be best for him if he didn't have too much pressure from a teammate. Sainz looks like the perfect candidate to me. He'll do a solid job but won't trouble Verstappen much in the raw speed department.

 

Depends if the goal is to learn, improve and develop into something better.. or just to manage perception and reputation.  Seems for a lot of people (and maybe Redbull that the priority is the latter).

 

It's possible to win an inter driver battle and still be crap.  It's possible to lose a teammate battle and still be one of the best drivers in F1.  In 2007, even if Lewis lost by 10 points or 20 points, the whole season would have done wonders for his career as a whole, and even recently he still talks about how much he gained and learned from that experience.

 

Bottas for example, in my opinion would have gained a lot this year with Massa compared to Maldonado.  And that's not because I think Massa is that quick or good these days but simply his Ferrari/championship experience.  STR drivers are babied a bit and have a nice smooth ride (the ones that aren't rejected and left out in the cold) but you can't manufacturer success or talent.  You either have it or you don't.  If you have it, you'll manage whatever the circumstance.  If you don't, no one can help you.

[TheRacingElf]

Even tough Vergne has been shown the door by Red Bull I think he would be the best teammate for Verstappen. He is experienced by now and Max could learn quite a few things from him. Besides that Red Bull knows what Vergne is capable of in reference to Ricciardo and Kvyat, so they can easily see how Max is doing.

[A3]

Agreed, but I can't see them asking Vergne to return.

[Viryfan]

Gasly made his F1 simulator debut last week.

 

They were so impressed with him (in fact he went faster than a Red Bull Racing Driver at Suzuka) that they planned an intensive simulator programm for him in november.

[Brandz07]

Personally I think Gasly has the most potential out of him, Sainz, Lynn & Da Costa and it's good to hear that he's been doing well on the sim. Sainz is leading the championship but he was made to look average (relatively) against Kvyat last year, after making less of a jump from the previous season (F3 compared to FR2.0) and obviously he has a ton more experience than Pierre; so it's expected that he'd be outscoring him.

 

I'd like to see what Lynn could do though.

Edited by Brandz07, 07 October 2014 - 22:02.

[noikeee]

Gasly made his F1 simulator debut last week.

 

They were so impressed with him (in fact he went faster than a Red Bull Racing Driver at Suzuka) that they planned an intensive simulator programm for him in november.

 

Interesting... have you got a source or do you know this personally?

[Viryfan]

Interesting... have you got a source or do you know this personally?

 

I've go this from private source at Paris Motor Show last saturday.

 

But people around don't expect anything for him about 2015 bar a car in feeder series sponsored by Red Bull. In fact there is no relationship between Marko and Gasly apart from ponctual one mnute phone call.

Edited by Viryfan, 07 October 2014 - 22:06.

[JeePee]

Alonso? 

And then get beaten by a rookie? Again? 

 

I hope it's Vergne for the sake of comparison material. But Sainz of Gasly would also be okay I guess.

[noikeee]

I've go this from private source at Paris Motor Show last saturday.

 

But people around don't expect anything for him about 2015 bar a car in feeder series sponsored by Red Bull. In fact there is no relationship between Marko and Gasly apart from ponctual one mnute phone call.

 

Ok, cheers for the info!

[scheivlak]

THe BBC asked Horner who would fill the seat - kind of funny because what should he know about another team 

They suggested that it's between Sainz, Lynn and Gasly and Horner said that it's indeed between these three and that a choice would be made at the end of the season (IIRC). 

[Masteroftheuniverse]

Whatever happened to Da Costa? he looked like a shoe-in for the drive last season, yet they went with Kvyat. 

 

Anyway, it should be Sainz Jr, they like him and he's got a pretty decent CV from the junior categories.

 

 

And doesn't Mardenborough have a Nissan deal, not a Red Bull one? There was talk of him getting a factory WEC drive with Nissan next year.

[f1RacingForever]

Me

[Nitropower]

My heart says Sainz, but given Marko's bigotry I'd bet it'll be someone else.

[turssi]

Me

Can you tell us who you are?

[William Hunt]

Very far from Kvyat on points last year on GP3, as team-mates, and it's not like Kvyat had more experience.

 

Have you actually seen the GP3 races last year? Because there wasn't that much between them as you suggest, in pure raw speed Kvyat really isn't faster as Sainz Jr, they're about equal.
The 2013 GP3 season was only 8 weekends (this year 9) which is short) and Kvyat's championship only came alive in the final 3 weekends when Sainz was having all kinds of bad luck (including a nasty crash with Jack Harvey in Spa that lost him a lot of points, that was for 2nd position I think). Before those final 3 weekends Kvyat didn't look any better as Sainz: they were about equal. Sainz did in fact beat Kvyat when they were teammates in F. Renault although again there was no that much between them.

 

The odd thing is: if you look at how Valtteri Bottas won his GP3 title; like Kvyat that also happened in the 2nd half of the season, he was nowhere in the first half.


 

Edited by William Hunt, 12 October 2014 - 00:48.

[William Hunt]

Lynn is the oldest of the three and Gasly the youngest. I think it will be Sainz but with Red Bull it could be any of those three, I doubt they will keep Vergne.

Alex Lynn has been very consistent in GP3 this year.

The fact that Gasly has struggled a bit in his first GP2 races could make him lose the seat.

Edited by William Hunt, 12 October 2014 - 00:58.

[DILLIGAF]

Voted for JEV because rate him and feel a bit sorry for him for some reason. But Sainz Jr will probably get the nod.

 

If JEV just drove the car and kept his mouth shut I think he would have already been offered a new contract. Just my opinion.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 12 October 2014 - 00:59.

[f1RacingForever]

Can you tell us who you are?

I am max verstappen. Keep it on the down low though... :-D

[HammyHamiltonFan]

heart says Lynn, head says Sainz Jnr.

[sopa]

heart says Lynn, head says Sainz Jnr.

 

And Red Bull simulator says Gasly?