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Lewis Hamilton vs Nico Rosberg 2014 Part VIII


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#3851 DrivenF1

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:14

Pretty sure Arnoux whupped Prost in qualifying in 1981, but the tables were turned on race day.

Mansell definitely did the same to Prost in 1990, then I think had Patrese do it to him the following year.

 

I have the data to hand so I can tell you that:

 

Prost beat Arnoux 10-5 in Q in 1981 (average difference = 0.541s)

The score was 8-8 in 1982 with a more modest difference of 0.114s to Prost

 

Mansell-Prost was 8-8 as well in 1990 with a difference of 0.163s to Prost

In 1991, Patrese did beat Mansell 9-7 (with a 0.346s average difference).

 

Niki Lauda beat John Watson 11-4 and 12-3 respectively in Q in 1982 and 1983 (differences of 0.628s and 0.618s). Watson won the same amount of races in 1982 and scored more points, in 1983 he scored a single win to Lauda's zero. Does that fit?



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#3852 ensign14

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:19

Watson was never a screw-the-courage-to-the-sticking-post sort of driver.  He was though the best overtaker in F1 in that period.  Obvs his coming from 22nd to 1st at Long Beach 1983 is proverbial, but he wasn't far off doing that at Detroit in 1982, when it was much harder. 



#3853 Collombin

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:19

The question asked about pole positions rather than overall head to head though. I know Arnoux had several in 1981, and remember Mansell in 90 and Patrese in 91 having several too.

Edit - and what about Benetton in 1986? Fabi had 2 or 3 poles, but only Berger won a race. Can't remember if he got any poles tho.

Edited by E.B., 13 November 2014 - 22:22.


#3854 alframsey

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:20

As far as I can see Lewis has this in the bag, if he doesn't have any mechanical issues Lewis will definitely finish Abu Dhabi with the WDC and I expect the race win. I say that because if memory serves me right Lewis is always bang on at Abu Dhabi, always there or there abouts. Speaking of the season as a whole I don't think anyone can argue this has been anybody but Lewis' season, he has been brilliant in almost every race he has finished, won double the races of his team mate and won every on track battle bar one with his team mate. Lewis is the deserving champion in the spirit of the sport, if Nico wins then I will be pissed off but he will have won within the rules so hey ho.

 

Should Lewis win this season then I expect next season he will be even more of a challenge for Nico to overcome, will he go on to dominate? I wouldn't say so but without issues (or minimal issues) I expect he will be further ahead at this point than he is currently.

 

I can't wait for next weekend, I really can't and I am ridiculously excited to see another WDC for Lewis Hamilton. It will make up for 2010 and 2012, possiby 2007 as well. He should already be a multiple WDC but for whatever reason he hasn't taken more titles. Next Sunday he becomes Lewis Hamilton 2x World Drivers Champion.



#3855 chrisj

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:24

I hope Hamilton's big talk about trying to win in Abu Dhabi is just talk. He got away with an unforced error in Brazil, but it would be idiotic to lose a championship that way. With the car he's got under him, he should cruise :10 seconds behind Nico, turn down the engine and still be champion.  



#3856 sabjit

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:24

Alfra, are you trying to jinx him...  :evil:



#3857 DrivenF1

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:27

The question asked about pole positions rather than overall head to head though. I know Arnoux had several in 1981, and remember Mansell in 90 and Patrese in 91 having several too.

Edit - and what about Benetton in 1986? Fabi had 2 or 3 poles, but only Berger won a race. Can't remember if he got any poles tho.

 

True. Apologies, I was framing it in the wrong way.

 

Arnoux did have more poles, he had 4 pole positions (in the 5 times he beat Prost). Prost only had 2 (out of the 10 times).



#3858 alframsey

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:28

I hope Hamilton's big talk about trying to win in Abu Dhabi is just talk. He got away with an unforced error in Brazil, but it would be idiotic to lose a championship that way. With the car he's got under him, he should cruise :10 seconds behind Nico, turn down the engine and still be champion.  

Why? The cautious approach always gets my back up. Lewis should go out and nail every single session, take pole by a margin and trounce Nico in the race. Win the WDC in style and finish the season with Nico losing out in the WDC and being shown how to drive at the final race. Set up next season in style.



#3859 TomNokoe

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:29

Before the season I had Rosberg in and around my top 5. He's probably still there now.

Many people simply expected Hamilton to beat Rosberg, but I think the fact he actually has, and done it rather well, isn't a "I told you so" moment, it's a moment of validation.

Validation that Lewis Hamilton is the actual business, and that in a one car formula (let's be real), he went toe to toe with one of the current best, hindered with worst reliability, and has very nearly put him in the shade.

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#3860 ensign14

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:31

Edit - and what about Benetton in 1986? Fabi had 2 or 3 poles, but only Berger won a race. Can't remember if he got any poles tho.

 

Fabi had 3 poles, and never led a lap.



#3861 Collombin

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:32

True. Apologies, I was framing it in the wrong way..


No need, my wording was misleading in isolation. I had no idea of how the head to head data looked.

#3862 Collombin

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 22:32

Fabi had 3 poles, and never led a lap.


It's a skill of sorts.

#3863 surbjits

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 03:54

...one of the current best, hindered with worst reliability, and has very nearly put him in the shade.

 

Current best is a strong word, I only consider Alonso and Hamilton to hold that title (perhaps Ricciardo will be there in the future).

He's great in quali, but his race management is not so good; he isn't 'complete' in that regard.



#3864 TF110

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:07

Abu is a track where drs actually works. If Lewis is behind, but close, I predict a pass on Rosberg. At least an attempt. This is Lewis. He can get the job done in passing. The straight here is very long, and the tight turns are one of Lewis's strong points.

#3865 Mercedestorque1

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:26

HAMILTON 2014 WDC!!! :clap: :clap:



#3866 OO7

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 06:38

HAMILTON 2014 WDC!!! :clap: :clap:

Hmmm.........The jinx is strong in this one.



#3867 hollowstar

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 07:07

HAMILTON 2014 WDC!!! :clap: :clap:

 

For now Lewis has only wrapped the DHL fastest lap award, and Nico the pole trophy.   



#3868 Nemo1965

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 07:34

Sometimes I come in here, read a page of posts and think I've entered the twilight zone.

 

Sometimes I come in here, read a page of posts and think I've entered a group-hug zone. Let's welcome new posters, as long as they don't troll.

 

 

Watson was never a screw-the-courage-to-the-sticking-post sort of driver.  He was though the best overtaker in F1 in that period.  Obvs his coming from 22nd to 1st at Long Beach 1983 is proverbial, but he wasn't far off doing that at Detroit in 1982, when it was much harder. 

 

 

Regarding Watson and Niki, everytime I compare Lewis and Nico in mind, these quotes from Watson emerge. Read it as if Watson is Lewis and Niki is Nico.

‘We struggled all the way through prac- tice and qualifying to find grip,’ Watson says. ‘In the intermission when the race was stopped Pierre Dupasquier of Michelin, who was one of the smartest men I’ve ever met within motor racing - a very, very smart engineer - came to me and said «John, you’re on the 06 (or whatever it was), the softest tyre. Please go and put on a set of 05s, one compound harder.»
Actually it wasn’t so straightforward because in those days there were extremely subtle differences between grades, compounds and construction of tyres and Michelin operated with great secrecy anyway. I’m not sure Pierre didn’t even say «You will win the race.» I went to my mechanics and said: 'Look, have you guys got some of my 05s?'

 

They dragged some out, strapped them on, the race recommenced, and bit by bit I found myself able to pick up pace. Michelin would never have gone to Niki and said the same thing to him because he always ran the 06s whenever he could, so it would have been pointless...’
‘Anyway, I was coming through with such positiveness: bosh, bosh, bosh, job done. the power of positive thought is an exceptionally powerful tool in all of life but it’s knowing how and when to apply it.
‘It was my little tsunami, if you like. I had a rhythm, I had a car which, suddenly, was reborn with the tyres. Ironically if you were looking for rhythm you couldn’t come to a better city than Detroit, home of Tamla Motown.’
‘While all this was going on, behind me my good old team-mate and friend Niki suddenly went: oh, oh, you can pass here, reprogramme the computer chip in the brain. He got past Cheever and Pironi and he had a better chance of winning the race than me. He was fewer seconds behind Keke than I was and he could have finished second on the road but won on aggregate. He tried to pass Keke, got it wrong and shunted, which Keke found very amusing. Whereas I was quiet, clean, positive, Niki was: will I, won’t I? Keke shut the door, and that was it.’


Edited by Nemo1965, 14 November 2014 - 07:36.


#3869 Tourgott

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 09:54

Here is the full segment of Rosberg getting the Bambi for "Sportsman of the year" and more important, Michael Schumacher getting the Bambi for being a legend form Sebastian Vettel inducing an emotional speech:

http://www.ardmediat...castId=12507410

(starting at 19:45)


Edited by Tourgott, 14 November 2014 - 09:56.


#3870 GAZF1nut

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 11:41

This is going to be an interesting thread next weekend...



#3871 sabjit

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 16:09

Since we are nearing 4000 posts anyway, I think a new thread for the last GP needs to be made. I would hate for this thread to die naturally midway through the weekend/build up, it just breaks the rhythm.

 

In fact that would be more of a tragedy than a double points winner  :mad:


Edited by sabjit, 14 November 2014 - 17:21.


#3872 SophieB

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 20:16

Since we are nearing 4000 posts anyway, I think a new thread for the last GP needs to be made. I would hate for this thread to die naturally midway through the weekend/build up, it just breaks the rhythm.

 

In fact that would be more of a tragedy than a double points winner   :mad:

 

 

Well, if someone fancies putting together a Lewis vs Nico new thread, title showdown edition, with a bit of effort to it, maybe a summary of the season up to now and a couple of jokes or fancy graphics, then by all means go for it. As long as the thread is respectful to both drivers and their fans, it's up to you.

 

I do suggest we do it like the NASCAR & IndyCar people do, though, and have people SAY here if it's something they fancy working on. It prevents three or four people all starting a thread and then finding they've been beaten to the punch. Then, just PM me when your masterpiece new thread is ready so that I know to close this one and we don't have two threads open at the same time.

 

If there's no interest shown, I'll just make a new thread in a day or so like usual.



#3873 DrivenF1

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 20:37

 

Well, if someone fancies putting together a Lewis vs Nico new thread, title showdown edition, with a bit of effort to it, maybe a summary of the season up to now and a couple of jokes or fancy graphics, then by all means go for it. As long as the thread is respectful to both drivers and their fans, it's up to you.

 

I do suggest we do it like the NASCAR & IndyCar people do, though, and have people SAY here if it's something they fancy working on. It prevents three or four people all starting a thread and then finding they've been beaten to the punch. Then, just PM me when your masterpiece new thread is ready so that I know to close this one and we don't have two threads open at the same time.

 

If there's no interest shown, I'll just make a new thread in a day or so like usual.

 

 

I'm happy to draft along with NateF1. We've written plenty of articles together so this would be a lot of fun!



#3874 bourbon

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Posted 14 November 2014 - 21:56

Here is the full segment of Rosberg getting the Bambi for "Sportsman of the year" and more important, Michael Schumacher getting the Bambi for being a legend form Sebastian Vettel inducing an emotional speech:

http://www.ardmediat...castId=12507410

(starting at 19:45)

 

Very nice and a bit sad too - the humorous memory lightened it up a bit - well deserved by Michael.  And congratulations to Nico on the Bambi sportsman of the year.  I'm sure he's hoping for bigger and better things to come.  :p

 

For now Lewis has only wrapped the DHL fastest lap award, and Nico the pole trophy.   

 

Only?  Those are great awards, imo.  Congrats @ Hamilton for the DHL - well deserved (I happen to think that award was a long time coming and is pretty awesome.  It encourages qualifying laps at the end of the race which is fantastic if you are trackside, although fuel has countered that a lot this season.  Sadly).  Congrats at Rosberg for being the first F1 Pole Position Champion - showing grace under pressure - good stuff.  This too has been a long time coming  :up:



#3875 hollowstar

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 02:57

Very nice and a bit sad too - the humorous memory lightened it up a bit - well deserved by Michael.  And congratulations to Nico on the Bambi sportsman of the year.  I'm sure he's hoping for bigger and better things to come.  :p

 

 

Only?  Those are great awards, imo.  Congrats @ Hamilton for the DHL - well deserved (I happen to think that award was a long time coming and is pretty awesome.  It encourages qualifying laps at the end of the race which is fantastic if you are trackside, although fuel has countered that a lot this season.  Sadly).  Congrats at Rosberg for being the first F1 Pole Position Champion - showing grace under pressure - good stuff.  This too has been a long time coming  :up:

 

I didn't mean to disminish the achievements, just saying that congratulating any of the driver for the WDC is prematurate until next race's chequered flag. 



#3876 GoldenColt

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 07:12

Didn't Lewis receive a Bambi 6 years ago already?



#3877 TheRacingElf

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 07:24

Rosberg getting the Bambi for "Sportsman of the year"

I think it's too easy to make an cheeky comment about that so I won't :p



#3878 SlickMick

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 08:39

I'm not a huge Hamilton fan but given his performances this year I'd be pretty disappointed if he didn't end up with the WDC.

I've no doubt he'll be much quicker than Rosberg during the AD race, will try and overtake Rosberg if he has a sniff, and Rosberg will  defend like a man possessed even to the point of allowing contact if necessary.

Qualifying is key. If Rosberg gets pole then I see contact, then it's in the lap of the gods.

 

ps please don't assume I mean Rosberg will deliberately crash into Hamilton - he did not do this earlier in the season and he wont do it next week.   



#3879 Nemo1965

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 11:19

I think it's too easy to make an cheeky comment about that so I won't :p

 

I admit that I find the name 'Bambi' sort of strange for a sportsman and woman-award. Nico a Bambi? Lewis a Bambi? Award for the most meek sportsman of the year?



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#3880 amppatel

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 14:27

I put £100 on Rosberg to win the WDC @ 10/3. This way I win either way...



#3881 sabjit

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 15:27

I put £100 on Rosberg to win the WDC @ 10/3. This way I win either way...

 

That's why I always bet against the team/individual I am supporting. It makes losing easier to get over by earning some cash.



#3882 MP422

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 17:38

I put £100 on Rosberg to win the WDC @ 10/3. This way I win either way...

 

I'm hoping you win the other way !! Go Lewis... :up:



#3883 Nemo1965

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 18:36

That's why I always bet against the team/individual I am supporting. It makes losing easier to get over by earning some cash.

 

I have to say that you (and the other guy) just made me see a way in which I can endorse betting! (I hate betting just for money, that is why!) :up:



#3884 SWAN

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 19:11

has someone done the math/summary on races this year Lewis vs Nico that were without technical problems?



#3885 Asterion

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 19:36

I put £100 on Rosberg to win the WDC @ 10/3. This way I win either way...

Genius! :cool:



#3886 Newbrray

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 20:47

has someone done the math/summary on races this year Lewis vs Nico that were without technical problems?

 

its been done to death

 

a few pages back you will find it under course name probability 101 

 

by the way - welcome to the forum 



#3887 SophieB

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 21:37

We are just about approaching the 4000 posts mark here, so this thread will now close. Apologies for the temporary disruption to your Lewis and Nico chat, your new thread is being prepared.

 

edited to add: new thread is here