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Acme Jet-Powered Railroad Car Co.


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#1 Magoo

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 13:28

"Hello, Corporate? We need your sign off on a little project of ours. We're going to take a rail car out of inventory and bolt a pair of J-47 jet engines on the roof. Right, see how fast it will go, so on and so forth. Run it through a few small towns wide open. Hello? Hello?" 

 

 

But in 1966, you could do stuff like this. This really happened. 

 

 

Video: The Incredible but True Story of M-497, the Jet-Powered Rail Car | Mac's Motor City Garage.com 

 

 

 

 

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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 14:31

In 1946, when manufacturers were casting around for alternative uses for their expensively-developed JATO rockets now that the USAF and USN didn't seem to need many any more, one of the suggested applications was as auxiliary brakes on express trains.

 

Luckily, it appears that common sense prevailed. Sudden deceleration of a multiply-coupled train tends not to end well ...



#3 mariner

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 15:32

It was crazy experiment with limited actual use but lots of publicity. By all accounts the jet blast and general speed whiped up ballast and any trackside debris.

 

Also by 1966 the state of NYC's track was far too poor to risk much high speed and the FRA restricted speeds to under 70mph unless cab signaling was enabled on a route.

The Wasington NYC ex Pennsy route was cab equipped so a succesor to the jet train did come in terms of the Metroliners , with a motor to every axle and 160 mph capabilty.

 

Sadly they had their own problems and never ran at full sped until completley rebuilt. By then any passenger train development had passed to the Japanese/Europeans and Amtrack bought abroad thereafter.



#4 saudoso

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Posted 09 October 2014 - 21:10

http://www.darwinawa...win1995-04.html

 

URBAN LEGEND! The Arizona Highway Patrol were mystified when they came upon a pile of smoldering wreckage embedded in the side of a cliff rising above the road at the apex of a curve. The metal debris resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it turned out to be the vaporized remains of an automobile. The make of the vehicle was unidentifiable at the scene.

The folks in the lab finally figured out what it was, and pieced together the events that led up to its demise.

It seems that a former Air Force sergeant had somehow got hold of a JATO (Jet Assisted Take-Off) unit. JATO units are solid fuel rockets used to give heavy military transport airplanes an extra push for take-off from short airfields.

Dried desert lakebeds are the location of choice for breaking the world ground vehicle speed record. The sergeant took the JATO unit into the Arizona desert and found a long, straight stretch of road. He attached the JATO unit to his car, jumped in, accelerated to a high speed, and fired off the rocket.

The facts, as best as could be determined, are as follows:

The operator was driving a 1967 Chevy Impala. He ignited the JATO unit approximately 3.9 miles from the crash site. This was established by the location of a prominently scorched and melted strip of asphalt. The vehicle quickly reached a speed of between 250 and 300 mph and continued at that speed, under full power, for an additional 20-25 seconds. The soon-to-be pilot experienced G-forces usually reserved for dog-fighting F-14 jocks under full afterburners.

The Chevy remained on the straight highway for approximately 2.6 miles (15-20 seconds) before the driver applied the brakes, completely melting them, blowing the tires, and leaving thick rubber marks on the road surface. The vehicle then became airborne for an additional 1.3 miles, impacted the cliff face at a height of 125 feet, and left a blackened crater 3 feet deep in the rock.

Most of the driver's remains were not recovered; however, small fragments of bone, teeth, and hair were extracted from the crater, and fingernail and bone shards were removed from a piece of debris believed to be a portion of the steering wheel.

Ironically a still-legible bumper sticker was found, reading
"How do you like my driving? Dial 1-800-EAT-****." 



#5 Magoo

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 00:40

The section of New York Central they used for this stunt is a 68-mile stretch known as the Air Line, aka the Chicago Line, aka the Water Level route (the latter being a  misnomer). It was chosen in 1966 because it was the straightest, most level piece of road on the NYC. Essentially, if you snap a chalk line from Toledo, Ohio, to Butler, Indiana, that's the Air Line -- with the towns of Swanton, Delta, Wauseon, Archbold, Stryker, Bryan, Edgerton, etc. sprouting up along the route. So if you look at a map of Ohio and use these towns to connect the dots, you have the Air Line. One reason for the Air Line's original construction circa 1897 was to carry trains like the one that became known as the Lake Shore Limited, which regularly made New York to Chicago in 16 hours, and was regarded as the most luxurious and prestigious passenger  train in the biz.

 

The engineering report for the 1966  jet trial describes the track as "26 years old, excellent condition," and the pilot Don Wetzel said that in his view, it was about as nice as standard bolted and ballasted (non-welded) track could be. I am no rail expert but to my eye, it still is that nice today.  My friend who rides the Amtrak train on this route says it runs 87-90 mph on the stretch, according to his iPhone. 

 

I got curious about something I saw in the engineering report so I drove out there yesterday to double check. I had to see if the speed trap was actually in the place indicated. This photo below is the Amtrak station in Bryan, Ohio, which was the New York Central station in 1966, of course -- it's well in town but at the northern outskirts, sort of. Anyway, at the point I am standing to take this photo (within 100 feet plus or minus) is the exact spot where the M-497 was clocked at 196 mph. Yes, they blew through town at Vmax, WFO. The magnificent bastards. 

 

 

85AKbY.jpg


Edited by Magoo, 10 October 2014 - 00:47.


#6 Kelpiecross

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 03:55

Is this not such a silly idea as it first appears to be? On a good track that can handle 200mph (like the one that the "Bullet" train uses) a big turbofan engine on the roof may give acceptable economy etc. (plus a small diesel for low speed manoeuvring). The main problem might be that it made the train very tall.

Edited by Kelpiecross, 10 October 2014 - 03:56.


#7 Kelpiecross

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 04:03

http://www.darwinawa...win1995-04.html


A good story but probably not true. The Mythbusters proved fairly clearly that it was not likely. The JATO (or RATO) unit just doesn't have the thrust or running time to move a heavy car in this manner.

#8 Magoo

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:38

Is this not such a silly idea as it first appears to be? On a good track that can handle 200mph (like the one that the "Bullet" train uses) a big turbofan engine on the roof may give acceptable economy etc. (plus a small diesel for low speed manoeuvring). The main problem might be that it made the train very tall.

 

Exactly. I think this is what propels the story. It seems ridiculous and Hannah-Barbera-ish at first, but as you study it you start to see that hey, this is pretty neat. 

 

The only part that still raises one eyebrow for me was running the car WFO through several towns, including Bryan, Ohio (pop. 8500). People came from miles around to watch the spectacle and if there had been a derailment. for whatever reason, today we would be reading about the great Bryan rail massacre of 1966. But I refuse to judge -- these were different times. 



#9 Catalina Park

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:42

What we need next is a giant Studebaker story.

#10 saudoso

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 14:45

A good story but probably not true. The Mythbusters proved fairly clearly that it was not likely. The JATO (or RATO) unit just doesn't have the thrust or running time to move a heavy car in this manner.

I'd have fired it a bit earlier though.



#11 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 00:16

That story has been done twice by Mythbusters. with remote controlled Chevs!



#12 Wuzak

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:18

That story has been done twice by Mythbusters. with remote controlled Chevs!

 

I believe three times.

 

The first was in their original episode, where they drove it along the desert without a ramp.

 

 

And the one shown above.



#13 Magoo

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 20:49



What we need next is a giant Studebaker story.

 

Great suggestion. I'll get on it. 

 

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#14 Catalina Park

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:26

I said giant Studebaker, not tiny people.

#15 Magoo

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 21:09

More of my little people who make it all possible. 

 

 

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#16 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 02:40

It's ok, they wash em all out at the first oil change.

#17 mariner

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 09:44

I like trains as well as autos ( and planes) so I have large collection of old "Trains" magazines form the USA.

 

Imagine my surprise when  flicking through them that there was a long article on the jet train in the February 1989 copy. The article  explains that it was not just a idea dreamed up by the NYC railroad but was triggered by th US Commerce Dept. who had received a study from MIT suggesting research into high speed rail.

 

A guard was posted at every crossing for safety and a spotter plane flew overhead in radio contact with the train for emergencies. The railcar's normal GM engines were disconnected so it had to be towed back to start each run.

 

The NYC boss Alfred Perlman set up the runs in response to the Govt's proposals and rode on the jet car but pointed out throughout that the issue with  high speed passenger rail trains was fundementally an economic one not technical - that hasn't changed in the last 50 years!


Edited by mariner, 23 November 2014 - 14:16.


#18 Magoo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:40

I like trains as well as autos ( and planes) so I have large collection of old "Trains" magazines form the USA.

 

Imagine my surprise when  flicking through them that there was a long article on the jet train in the February 1989 copy. The article  explains that it was not just a idea dreamed up by the NYC railroad but was triggered by th US Commerce Dept. who had received a study from MIT suggesting research into high speed rail.

 

A guard was posted at every crossing for safety and a spotter plane flew overhead in radio contact with the train for emergencies. The railcar's normal GM engines were disconnected so it had to be towed back to start each run.

 

The NYC boss Alfred Perlman set up the runs in response to the Govt's proposals and rode on the jet car but pointed out throughout that the issue with  high speed passenger rail trains was fundementally an economic one not technical - that hasn't changed in the last 50 years!

 

 

Indeed, all true. The engineering papers generated by the project are floating around on the web if anyone is interested. The video in the website fature is the engineering film, originally done with a home movie camera. 

 

The guards posted at every crossing and station were a fine idea, but wouldn't be much help in the case of a derailment. As you can imagine, there weren't a lot of attractions out that way in the '60s, so this was a very big deal -- the audience was in the thousands. People who live out that way have very active memories of it. On the website, two people from a little town called Melbern on the Air Line connected and traded stories, which is pretty remarkable in that this place has a population of maybe 20. Small world. 

 

By the way, after the experiment the rail car was put back to stock configuration and returned to regular duty, then eventually mothballed and scrapped. The jet engines were used to build a snow melter. 


Edited by Magoo, 24 November 2014 - 06:46.


#19 275 GTB-4

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:10

Ahhhh a subject close to my heart...my Great Grandfather (Patrick) was a Motorman in NYNY at the turn of the century...heady days!

Lerve the pure guts and determination of my hero W. Coyote...



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#20 Magoo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:52

Life lessons from the Roadrunner: 

 

 

 



#21 fredeuce

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 21:13

For those that have a keen interest in these stories this version seems just that bit more plausible that it happened. Even if it didn't, take the time to read it anyway as it is quite well written and a humorous story to boot. See what you think.

http://www.the-clear...Jato/rockit.htm

Edited by fredeuce, 24 November 2014 - 21:34.


#22 Canuck

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 04:32

Egads that was long.

#23 gruntguru

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 05:00

I noticed that before I started reading - and didn't start.



#24 imaginesix

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 05:07

I'll wait for the YouTube clip.



#25 desmo

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 18:47

Mythbusters had some fun with the concept.



#26 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 23:21

Mythbusters had some fun with the concept.

Yeah, but they have killed some interesting old Chevs doing so. 

I like that model fastback Chevy.



#27 Canuck

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Posted 30 November 2014 - 03:32

I'm not convinced they exhausted the possibilities of a rocket-propelled Impala.

#28 imaginesix

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 02:16

I'll wait for the YouTube clip.


OK, I understand everything now:
caranim.gif

#29 bigleagueslider

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 02:59

The turbojet engines used for this project were horribly inefficient compared to diesel electric. But it was the dawn of the "jet age", so it probably seemed like good publicity for the railroads who were starting to lose much of their passenger business to the commercial airlines.

 

Of course, there is one small advantage to using jet thrust to propel a rail vehicle. The amount of forward propulsive force applied by the engine is not limited by the traction capability of steel wheels on steel rails.



#30 gruntguru

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 23:35

I seem to recall they justified the project as research into high-speed rail, not the jet propulsion as such. I bet the reality was a "boys and their toys" thing.

 

The jet thrust would not have matched the tractive effort available through the wheels.


Edited by gruntguru, 03 December 2014 - 23:35.